soccerchamp76

Alright, goin to college in the fall and I am going to be building a new computer.
I have a couple important questions though, not with the actual building process, but with software/hardware decisions.

First: Operating Systems: Windows XP Home or XP Professional? Do not suggest OSX or Linux, I am a Windows guy and I am not going to budge. Do I need to get the full version or the upgrade (I heard if you get the upgrade all you need is a CD of a pervious Windows).

Second: Video Card - I will not get the X800 or the 6800 as I do not want to spend upwards of $400 on a video card, I just want a video card that will handle some games (I do not play any of the hardcore graphic intensive games, ie. Doom3 or others). Probably a ATI 9800 Pro because I want one that will last a while as well.

Third: HDD - SATA vs. IDE - SATA is faster, but I heard from someone else that the SATA is faster in the theoretical speed of the data transfer and the data transfer has not surpassed the top IDE speed yet. So is SATA worth it yet? Choice so far would be a WD Special Edition 160 GB 8MB buffer.

Fourth: Power Supply - I have heard some definite horror stories in this department, mostly about certain brands. What are reliable brands and what brands should I stay away from? (I know sixate, if he reads this, will have a strong opinion on this subject as I have read from other threads)

[edit]
Fifth: Processor - AMD vs. Intel
I do not plan on playing many games, so I am not sure what advantages I would get out of the FX series. Anybody also know when the Prescott comes out? Hopefully before August so the northwood prices shoot down.


Can't think of any more questions, so thanks for any help.

Oh, budge will probably be around $2000-$2500, depending on how much I am able to convince my parents to blow, er, spend on it. Bottom range is 2k though.

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Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

sailor

OS: XP Pro. Home is a POS pain in the ass. Avoid at all costs.

Vid Card: Like you said: 9800 Pro. Great card, great price, and will play most of the games for a couple more years.

HDD: SATA isnt much faster at the moment *unless* you get one of the Raptor 10,000 RPM drives. Those things are great, but expensive (around $200 for 74GB). Id get a board that supports SATA and go with normal ATA for the moment, upgrading when/if it becomes feasable.

PSU: Definitely get a good, reputable company. I recommend Antec.

But shit man, those specs you have now will get you a machine for less than 1K. Either get a hella nice machine or like two huge LCD monitors to go with that one

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

Lasereth

sailor's right. XP Pro and a 9800 Pro sounds good. SATA, but only if you get a 10k RPM hard drive. For PSU's, I'd go with Enermax, Sparkle, SilenX, or Antec. 350w-400w will do the trick!

As for processors, it's really whatever you want since you have so much money to spend on this computer. I'd just get an Athlon XP 2500+ or Athlon 64 3200+ depending on how much money ya wanna spend. A 2.4 GHz Hyper-Threading Pentium 4 would be another good option. Hell, with your budget, a 3.2 GHz HT wouldn't hurt.

The Prescott E-Cores are already out. They're not any better than Northwood cores, and in some cases, are worse. Intel is introducing their new socket in the next couple of months however. T-Socket...it's gonna be interesting.

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

LNCPapa

Ditto on everything Lasereth said except I'd definitely go with SATA now - even if it's not much faster it's definitely easier for cabling. Just be sure to either get a powersupply (I recommend some of the higher end Enermax - Noisetaker series or higher) with SATA power connectors on it or else get some SATA power adapters. I'd also go with either the 3.2C or an AMD64 if I were you (pref for the intel because of my experiences with both companies - but both are good.) 9800 Pro will do you just fine - I've got 3 of them although I will be buying an X800 XT soon just because.

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No mercy for the bandwidth impaired

soccerchamp76

I am definitely not going to get the 10k rpm HDD.
In a college dorm, I am also going to consider some sound dampening material. Would a heatsink on the video card instead of a fan reduce the sound considerably?

Now, I know there is some foam that you can cut and place on the inside of the case and decrease the sound. I really do not want a loud machine that will be noticeable. Sound is a big issue.

As of now, I will probably get the P4 3.2GHz w/ HT because the 3.4 is about $200 more for only 200MHz.

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Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

MerKon4

OS: I haven't had any prob. w/ XP home but pro is obviously a good idea

Vid:I run a Geforce FX 5600 Ultra w/ 128 ddr. w/o any problem. Haven't come across a game to slow it down yet.

HD: Ok, non-raptor style serial drives are just adapted IDE drives with a different interface. I run a 36g Raptor for all my programs and a 30g ide for all my files. Windows load really fast. I can be booted up and playing games by the time my friends laptop is asking for his PW.

PSU: ANTEC!! can't say much more. They are one of the very few, test proven power supplies. Don't believe me, go to Tom's Hardware guide and read it for yourself. I run a Antec 430 True Power. The True Power lines are actually stronger than their rating and if you've worked with other antec stuff, you know its pretty good

Also, get yourself some good memory. Its very important. No since in running a nice processor and crap mem. I run 1gig, paired Corsair D-DDR at 800mhz. Computer halls ass

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yes

Wyodiver33

As to your question about getting the Upgrade version of Windows XP Pro, If you have a install CD of Win 98, ME, or 2K, you can use the upgrade. During install, XP will ask you to put your 98/ME/2K cd in. Once it verifies it, you are all set. I would get XP Pro, not Home. And for $2000, you should be able to get a good printer too. Good luck.

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I like stuff.

merkdr

if your in a dorm you might also consider some noiseless fans

spived2

I'd pick up some vantec stealth fans if you're worried about sound problems. I have 3 80mm and 1 120mm stealth fans and even when sitting right next to my computer, I can't hear them.

__________________

"This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is it vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished, as the once vital voice of the verisimilitude now venerates what they once vilified. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose vis-à-vis an introduction, and so it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V." - V

Sunrise

Operating System: Windows XP Professional

Video Card - 9800 pro sounds like a VERY good idea.

HDD: Definitely go with 8mb buffer, when it comes to SATA or PATA, which ever drive is cheaper, but atleast make sure your mobo supports SATA, so later on you can get a SATA drive if you don't get one now.

Power Supply - Go for 400w at the very least I'd say. Antec is synomonous with being reliable, but there are quite a few other good brands also, just make sure it's not a no name!

Processor: You can't really go wrong with either, although I do prefer Intel myself.

soccerchamp76

Now, I will purchasing solely from Newegg.com so is it best to go retail or OEM. I know that If you buy an OEM processor it does not come with a heatsink so which items would be best for OEM/Retail?

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Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

kutulu

You didn't mention cd or dvd drives. With your budget I'll assume you're getting a DVD-ROM and a DVD-RW

I'd get the HD, Floppy and DVD-ROM OEM. You don't need any of the bundled crap that they would come with. Get the retail processor and DVD-RW. The retail processor will have the heat sink and fan and the DVD-RW should come with the latest edition of Nero.

soccerchamp76

I am leaning toward the Plextor 52x32x52x CD/RW as it is fast and has an 8MB buffer. I am unsure if I should get a DVD-ROM or a DVD-R/W. Depends on the prices of the other components because the dvd burner will add another 100 dollars.

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Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

Lasereth

The only thing I'd buy retail is the videocard and maybe the processor. If you want a silent CPU, I'd stick with the AMD or Intel fan that came with it, but those only come with retail CPUs. If you're gonna overclock, then you'll need a better CPU fan. If you simply want a better fan from the start, I'd get an OEM processor and the Thermaltake Silent Boost if you go AMD, and an SLK-900U + silent fan for Intel.

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

bltzkriegmcanon

Speaking of stuff to attach to a computer, I caught this little tidbit from Tomshardware in their reporting of Computex 2004. It's from a little known company called Coolink, and my God, I MUST show this image. It strikes me.

__________________
What do you say to one last showdown?
- Ocelot, Metal Gear Solid 3

The password is "Who are the Patriots?" and "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." Gotcha.
- The Colonel and Snake, Metal Gear Solid 3

kutulu

You said your budget was about 2k. If that is so then you definitely have the money for the burner with the parts you're considering. If you get a DVD burner, you won't need a standalone CD burner either. I'd make the second drive a DVD-ROM. Get at least 1 GB of RAM also.

soccerchamp76

Well DVD-R/Ws are only able to burn CDs at around 40x and I am shooting for the 52x and hopefully finding one (doubtful) that will burn at 52x, 8MB buffer, and a DVD-ROM.


P.S. No overclocking will be done on this computer, I just don't want to get into all of that stuff.

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Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

LNCPapa

I would never buy a non-Retail motherboard either.

__________________
No mercy for the bandwidth impaired

Lasereth

Ha ha, me either! I forgot about motherboards. I've never seen an OEM motherboard for sale, but in case ya do, definitely get a retail.

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

oberon

Does anyone have any actual benchmarks (instead of "ooh it has 10k RPM vs. that 7.2k!" or "windows loads really fast!") that show the Raptor being faster than, say, a WD1600JB?

My Raptor certainly isn't faster. Moral of the story, for me at least, is that faster rotational speed doesn't mean faster drive.

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"There are finer fish in the sea than have ever been caught." -- Irish proverb

billege

If you want any chance of connecting your box to the college's ethernet, you'd damn well better get XP pro.

Serial ATA is not much more expensive, nor is it faster, but the cables are great. On your budget you have no reason not to go serial.

OEM means no heatsink, no fan. It's like whitebox, a synonym for OEM. Whitebox software is a disk in a sleeve. Usually cheaper. OEM is the product, and that's it buddy. No cables, no cute one step start guides, just the hardware.

In a dorm I'd be tempted to build a shuttle mini-pc; it's not like you'll have a lot of room. A fast HD makes more noise. If performance is less important that noice, consider a 5400rpm drive. A touch slow, yeah, but near silent.

Remember BIG fans turning slowly make less noise.

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I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

Peryn

Well with your budget, id say why not go to SATA drives? they aren't much more expensive, and like was said, the cables rule. Also, they format infinately quicker than any IDE i've ever used. Maybe i've been doing it wrong, but i've never had IDE blast out and reformat 200gigs in <15 seconds. That, to me, is almost worth the few bucks extra for it.

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Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

westothemax

An OEM Pentium 4 comes with the Intel heatsink/fan in a minimal plastic container. A retail Pentium 4 comes with the fan, some documentation or something, and better packaging. OEM CD and DVD drives come with an audio cable and sometimes software, in an anti-static bag. So it is not just the bare hardware, just what you really need to get started.

At least that's how it is at the computer store I work at.

Krycheck

Well im a little late but here's my two cents:

SATA: If you can get a 10,000 rpm drive do it! I love mine. HL loads in a blink. Far Cry loads pretty quick as well. I didn't use mine as a boot drive but I hear that you get insane boot up speeds.

Vidcard: You can go for a 9600XT for about $179. Can't go wrong with that one either.

Processor: I'm biased towards AMD so I'd say go with a 64 +3000. AMD has always faired better for gaming.

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His pants are tight...but his morals are loose!!

kutulu

The difference between burning at 52x and 40x is less like 20 seconds if the drive were to actually burn at max speed the whole time. The thing is that drives don't always burn at max speed. Using Nero, I burn most cd's from my burner in about 2 min. There's also a lot of them that you can buy (8x - and 4x +)retail for under $100 and OEM for under $70.

primal

I'd go with the fastest AMD A64 you can afford and I would buy Retail processor for the warranty(3yrs vs 90 days). I think the 9800 Pro is the best deal going but you have to watch out because some companies are releasing new 9800 Pros that have a 128-bit memory bus instead of 256-bit.

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"Where the white women at?"
-Sheriff Bart (Blazing Saddles)

chiss

BUILDING A NEW COMPUTER?
CPU: Ok it is late in the year now, you really don't want to go with anything less than an AMD 64 or intel equivalent (which hasn't even been released yet)

SATA: Yes yes and yes, although no, the technology is not in full effect yet, and it isn't being used at full potential, it won't be long untill it is though. SATA is also ALOT thinner and neater than IDE cables running through your case. (ALSO GO WITH 8MB CACHE)

O/S: Windows XP Pro for the average power user. So yes to Pro.

RAM: Depends if you want performance. For performance but still cheap, pick up 2 sticks of OCz PC3500 Performance Ram (256mbx2 dual channel). No more and no less than 512mb. Please don't waste your money and buy 1 gig of ram. That would be the dumbest thing you can do unless you are into heavy video editing, because you will never notice a difference.

PSU: This is probably what you want to research in the most. You want high wattage, but WARNING, IF IT SAYS IT IS 400W FOR EXAMPLE BUT IT COSTS A LOT LESS THAN THE COMPETITION, ITS NOT 400W OR HAS BAD RAILS. Let me explain. You see, there are three different rails of voltages. 3v, 5v, and 12v. You want at least 16A on 12v, 25A+ on 3.3v, and 35A+ on 5V. Also, just because it says its 400W, that 400W can only be achieved at a certain operating temperature. Under crazy cooling, yes that cheapo psu might pump out 400W, however under normal operating temperatures it may only deliver 300W or less. Understand? Quality and stability are so important when buying powersupplies.

VideoCard: Don't buy straight ATI or NVIDIA brand, go with something offmarket that has a good review, like sapphire or something. Sapphire Atalantis Video cards are great, and considerably cheaper than ATI's version of the same board.

Motherboard: I would recommend abit (personal favorite) Remember to just review this alot, your mobo is the main part of the computer its important to get one that won't give you any trouble.

CDRW: Go for the off brands like liteon, they are ALOT cheaper but still provide unprecedented quality.

Any more questions, you can email us about computers, lan parties, or networking at admin@newdawnlan.com

Hope I helped.

Lasereth

He won't notice a difference if he's not gonna play games, but if he's planning on playing games, even 768 MB after 512 will make a HUGE difference. It won't make the graphics any better...hell, it might not even make it run smoother, but load times will speed up drastically. The biggest increase I've seen is FPS and load times. I figured going from 512 to 768 wouldn't make a big difference, but it does. Going to 1 GB on today's games is easily worth it.

-Lasereth

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"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

soccerchamp76

Well, I can always start at 512MB and add on later.
I just cannot find a reason why I would not want to have that much RAM. If I have 15 programs open at once, I want them all running smoothly. If I can stay within my budget, why not?

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Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

ChrisJericho

One thing people have not mentioned about OEM's is the warranties. Sometimes the warranties are much shorter on OEM products versus the retails. On Newegg for instance I think the OEM processors only have 30 day warranty versus the typical 3 year warranty that retail processors have (someone can correct me on this if I am mistaken).

Also I would recommend NOT spending a lot of money on fancy ram... but rather getting a gig of budget ram from Corsair. Here is some for a decent price

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...80098-6&ps=ho1

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"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche

soccerchamp76

I was going to stick with Corsair or Kingston anyways. They seem to be the best and have great prices.

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Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

soccerchamp76

Do OEM hard drives come with the cables necessary to hook them up.

About partitioning them, say it was a 250 GB HDD.
Does a 40 GB System OS partition, 15 GB Recovery/Backup partition, 195 GB data partition seem right?

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Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

Lasereth

No.

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

soccerchamp76

Buffer question:
What is the importance of having an 8MB buffer on a HDD and a CD/RW versus a 2MB buffer?

__________________
Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

bltzkriegmcanon

Ah, it's not that bad, it just means you can get some cool-ass rounded cables like these. Or these for cheap! However, that doesn't change the fact that if the cables don't get there before the devices, you're in kind of a jam, with hardware but no cables to connect!

__________________
What do you say to one last showdown?
- Ocelot, Metal Gear Solid 3

The password is "Who are the Patriots?" and "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." Gotcha.
- The Colonel and Snake, Metal Gear Solid 3

sashime76

Looks like everyone just about covered every part in your new PC, check out Pricewatch when you are ready to shop around.

bltzkriegmcanon

I'd be careful about pricewatch, while they're handy for finding general postings of prices, some of the stores on there can be less than great about the overall experience for ordering stuff. If you're gonna use pricewatch as a guide, I must suggest you use resellerratings in conjunction with it. If a store doesn't have at least a 7 for a lifetime rating, then you should be extremely cautious about buying from that retailer, no matter how good the price!

Just in case you were wondering, newegg, tfp's computer parts store of choice, has a rating of 9.8 of 10 on resellerratings.

__________________
What do you say to one last showdown?
- Ocelot, Metal Gear Solid 3

The password is "Who are the Patriots?" and "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." Gotcha.
- The Colonel and Snake, Metal Gear Solid 3