krazykemist

First the warning:

1. P2P are not the only services that are being scoured for DMCA violations.

2. Peer Guardian does not work. (For BitTorrent)

So I wake up this evening and check my mail. Not expecting to find anything other than work related stuff and the occasional Viagra spam, I just glanced over everthing then had to do a double take when I saw the title "Bit Torrent Sharing". It was a message from a guy at my Internet company (whom I work for) informing me they recieved a violation notice connecting my IP to the download of a movie via BitTorrent. Luckily there were no charges pressed or fines required. However if I recieve one more violation then the port on my DSL will have to be blocked.
I have been downloading television episodes and unliscenced anime using BT for a while only recently used it to download this movie. I started using Peer Guardian on the first of the year and it has been showing me that it has blocked connection attempts from everyone from Universal, Time Warner, Metro-Goldwyn-Meyer to the Taiwanese government. The violation report came from Universal and the time stamps were during times that PG was running and logging blocked connections.

So do not think BT is a 'safer' method to download and do NOT trust blocking programs, as there is no way for them to include all IP address ranges that a company may use.

Now for the request:

Does anyone know the laws and use policies regarding the downloading of television episodes. Links to sources that provide said legal restrictions would also be helpful.

*edited warning #2.

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The_Dude

wow....i always use irc for my needs and i think its pretty safe there.

and sry, dunno the laws.

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arch13

It's legal as long as it's the version created for your country and has not had the commercials removed. Look through Lexus-Nexus for legal codes in your state regarding the not for profit recording and transmission of tv signals. Local laws supercede federal in cases of fcc regulation.

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tritium

If I understand correctly, if they were originally recorded from an actual television broadcast, you are covered legally and Universal can go suck an egg.

However, if they are DVD rips, then you could be in trouble.

Sony v. Universal City Studios [464 U.S. 417 (1984)] made VCR's legal for recording television.

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Blah.

krazykemist

I think you missed a bit. Universal (more exactly Vivendi-Universal) sent the violation in regards to the movie I downloaded.
The question about television episodes is not related to my violation I just wanted to know whether the episodes I've been downloading were legal or not. Added info is that the episodes are ones that are being captured by an individual using a TiVo/Replay TV like device and then upped via BT. Mainly Food Network shows and documentaries.

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"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." -- Tolstoy

tritium

I understood you completely. I just said Universal because I couldn't think of cable or television network that would give a damn whether or not you downloaded episodes of its shows. Just insert, Turner Networks, if it makes you happy.

My advice still stands. As long as the original recording was from a television broadcast, then **whomever** can go suck an egg.

If you'd read the Supreme Court brief, you would have understood me.

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Blah.

tritium

And while we're on the subject:
http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/howto-notgetsued.php

Yes, I'm aware of the fact that this doesn't apply to BitTorrent.

Since a lot of attention will likely be paid to this thread, its good to spread the word on How NOT to be sued while using something *other* than BitTorrent.

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Blah.

krazykemist

I did read the case but was still unclear. The case stated:
"noncommercial home use recording of material broadcast over the public airwaves was a fair use of copyrighted works, and did not constitute copyright infringement, and that petitioners could not be held liable as contributory infringers even if the home use of a VTR was considered an infringing use."

I am clear on the fact that I can use my VCR/TiVo whatever to record the episode and it be fine and legal. What I was asking for was whether or not it was legal to download a recorded broadcast that was recorded by another person. Since this case is from 1984 it really does not cover the sharing of said recordings.

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"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." -- Tolstoy

tritium

The sharing isn't important. If the original recording was over public airwaves and was accessible to everyone in exactly the same format and level of perfection (or imperfection), than whose to say who recorded what, when or how? As long as the original recording was made over a public broadcast, then you are in the clear.

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Blah.

Sion

kk, I dont have any advice on your situation, but rather a couple questions. As I understand your post, you were using BT to download a movie to which Universal owns the copyright. Universal became aware of your download and alerted your ISP to same. Your ISP then warned you about such. What I dont understand is HOW Universal discovered what you were downloading. (Note: I dont use BT and have only briefly looked at their interface and network configuration, so if this is something inherant in BT's setup, please excuse my ignorance.)

Were you downloading from a computer that Universal owned (ie is this an "entrapment" type of thing)? Or does Universal have some method of monitoring/hacking transmissions through the BT network? The only thing I can think of is that (assuming BT works in the same general way that Kazaa does) is that Universal joins the BT network as a "supernode" or "server", thereby funneling searches and download requests through their comp, which gives them the opportunity to monitor the traffic. And this again plays into the whole "entrapment" concept, which I admit was/is/always will be a particularly fuzzy and troublesome area of law.

Or, was the situation one such that you had already downloaded the movie and Universal discovered that you had it in a shared folder? Was the "violation" that you had downloaded the movie or that you had it available for sharing?

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tritium

They probably connect to download a movie that they own, use "netstat -a" on the command line and then use that information to send cease and desist letters to ISPs ... just a guess though.

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Blah.

tritium

Yeah, I just tried it. They're downloading files that are titled after products that they own (aka., movies) and then using something like netstat to get your IP address and ISP. See below for my ghetto version. I found 7 people that could be tracked down and sued.

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Blah.

krazykemist

-Sion-
I downloaded the torrent file from a widely popular site that ups hundreds of torrents a day (apps, movies and the like). Whether Universal sent in the file is unknown as I do not know the submission rules for that site. BT does not have a default folder that it stores files to. You simply choose the location for each new torrent as well as the file when you save it. BT has no supernodes or servers, only links to small torrent files that allow you to connect to other people that are seeding the files. This is why webmasters who host these files have it a little easier than people who run Kazaa type services since they have no actual files on their site nor store them on a server.
The violation itself was a simple time stamp that showed at two times once on Jan 4th and again on Jan 5th that the file was residing on my computer. I believe on the 4th I was still downloading the file and thats when they first tracked it to my IP. I am unsure of when I finished the file so the 5th could have been another track that I was using the torrent but more than likely was a check that I had completed the file and it was on my computer. As for sharing with BT if you are downloading then you are sharing. While you are downloading parts of the file from the seeders you are uploading pieces of the files you already have to those that do not.

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"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." -- Tolstoy

ni42

if you want something that has not been touched by the evil yet, try newsgroups.
http://www.slyck.com/ng.php
personaly i love them, i have dl over 200 gb off of them in about 2 years. you can get anything and everything you ever wanted from them. a plus is that, at least where i live, you dl this stuff from your isp so it is blazing fast. i get about half a meg per second on a regular cable modem.

edit: grammer

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- 42 -

phukraut

you said peerguardian doesn't work because it doesn't cover every possible IP addy to block? in that case it seems it Does work, it's just that you didn't feed it one IP that Universal used. yes? if there is actually something wrong with the PG code, then plz tell Method.

Crack

For now I am glad my ISP is in a different country... HA HA HA HA RIAA, MPAA, come and get me! (Shit, I hope they don't now...)
~Crack

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ratbastid

Peerguardian doesn't work with BitTorrent because of the way BitTorrent works.

The idea with PeerGuardian is, the RIAA/MPAA/Whoever scans a whole big bunch of IP addresses asking for share lists or searching for particular titles. With most P2P apps, that's how you find out who has what--you run a search, and it queries individual machines. PeerGuardian knows many known IPs that these scans come from, and blocks them.

BitTorrent works differently. There's a public tracker involved, where the IP address of everybody actively downloading or seeding is published. An individual client pulls down the tracker IP list and broadcasts to those known IPs the data ranges it still needs. It receives those broadcasts from others, and replies with whatever data it has inside those ranges.

So the point is, when you're using BitTorrent, your IP is on a public list of people downloading or sharing a particular document. The Bad Guys don't find you with a scan-oriented approach, they just pull down a list of IPs off the tracker. Nothing to block there. So PeerGuardian can't help.

phukraut

what if the trackers all blocked these IPs? would that be sufficient?

Sion

while I second the notion of using newsgroups for downloading, it is worth noting (at least for those not familiar with them) that in many/most groups, your requests for something is likely to be ignored unless you have uploaded something (or many somethings) in the past, or place your request in the header of an upload. the point is, if you arent sharing, you cant always get what you want. and if you are sharing, you are exposing yourself to the possibility of legal action by the copyright owner of whatever you upload.

the good news, however, is that there are SO many groups, with SO much stuff being uploaded, that you can fill terrabytes of space without ever having to request or share a thing.

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He's the best, of course, of all the worst.
Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz

I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

omega2K4

Uh, PeerGuardian does work. Just not for BT.

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Jam

i believe there is some law against them onmitoring and spying on irc? am i correct?

or you could just move to canada :P