Mice!: the Mouse Thread

[Willravel]

I'd like to devote this thread to everyone's favorite little rodent: the mouse.

The mouse was, of course, invented back in the 60s, after it was decided that head mounted devices could lead to sever neck straining and looking like an idiot. The simple idea was to have a multi directional pointing device that makes the person to computer interface more simple.

I myself have had many mice. I've had big teal mice, little black mice. I've had mice with long tails and even a mouse without a tail.

So here we are, a thread about your love of mice, any questions about mice, problems with mice, your favorite or least favorite mice.


So I'll give it a start. I'm a lover of all things Apple....usually. I've had the wireless Mighty Mouse for a few months, and I've found it to be very disappointing. While the battery life and look are more than satisfactory, the 360 degree scroll wheel gives out on a regular basis, probably because a particle gets stuck in there, and the right click stopped working almost altogether. Considering I spent $70 on the thing, I'm not thinking of replacing it with another Mighty Mouse. Soo....I'm looking for a really good bluetooth mouse that has right and left click, a scroll wheel that would hopefully be close to an equivalent to the scroll ball (only it works), and something that looks nice.

Anyone have any ideas for me? Or does anyone else want to talk mice?

[Halx]

The only mouse I'll ever need. I've had 2 since they were first released. It's simply the perfect mouse. Perfect shape, perfect features, perfect response, and cheap.

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mo...s.aspx?pid=004

[JustJess]

Logitech VX Revolution

Behold, and weep at its beauty.

Programmable buttons, a scroll wheel that easily switches from free spin to modulated spin, ergonomic design, cordless, storage spot for the USB bit, and it's pretty too!

[Halx]

I hate mice that you have to position in your hand or have to position your hand properly before you grab.

[JustJess]

Yeah, it sure does take a lot of effort to do that. Yep.

[Willravel]

JJ, that's one good looking mouse. It doesn't seem to be Bluetooth, but the 2.4 GHz micro-receiver seems just fine, as I have an external USB bluetooth thingy already.

Halx, once I went wireless, I realized how good life could be. I love the extra weight of the batteries. I love not having to worry about the wire. I love being able to sit in my big comfortable chair 15 feet away from the computer and still have the ability to mouse away.

[ubertuber]

Will - I'm with you... The mighty mouse could have been so great, but it just isn't. I love the scroll ball, but it only works in 2.5 directions now.

I've been eying the logitech laser mice.

[shakran]

Originally Posted by ubertuber

I've been eying the logitech laser mice.

I like mine!

[MikeSty]

Logitech Optical 3-Button Mini mouse - the greatest mouse ever.

It's small, brief, simple, doesn't require me to wrap my hand around it and it really is not a mini mouse. It has no curve so as far as I know a left handed person could use it perfectly.

[laconic1]

I've always liked the plain old Logitech optical mouse like this one. I have been using my current one at home for almost six years, never had a problem with it. I bought one for work to replace the big clunky mouse on my work computer. It is the right balance of simplicity, ease of use, the right size, and the right amount of heft.

[MexicanOnABike]

same as halx. My microsoft mouse has lasted me for over 5years now and it's still mostly perfect. my other one is a logitech 3button mouse. the blue optical one.

up to now, i haven't seen a good wireless mouse that i can use(batteries don't last). and on my wacom, it's a cool mouse but the direction is too restrictive for me. maybe one day they'll have some great "Minority Report" type glove mouse that will replace the current desk mouse.

[bermuDa]

The new revolution seems to be a huge improvement over the previous logitech mice, but I haven't used one enough to determine whether I'm ready to abandon my tried-and-true MS mouse. For the past decade at least, my main desktop mouse has always been Microsoft, and I'm very rarely disappointed in them (the only exception was the overpriced and underperforming bluetooth desktop combo).

For the most part, you can't go wrong with either Logitech or Microsoft, I wouldn't trust my cursor to anything else (save my Wacom tablets)

[dirtyrascal7]

I have a Logitech MX 3000 which came in a mouse/keyboard combo. It's very similar to the one JustJess posted, with maybe even an extra button or two. My favorite feature is that it comes with a docking station for recharging the mouse, so I never have to physically change the batteries. I love it.

[Speed_Gibson]

I have been using the mice that Halx showed for quite awhile on all of my systems. I would like to try a trackball but they are either missing buttons the MS optical has or are designed for the right hand which rules them out instantly. (no lack of abililty in that hand with a mouse, just no desire to use it usually)

[MikeSty]

Originally Posted by dirtyrascal7

I have a Logitech MX 3000 which came in a mouse/keyboard combo. It's very similar to the one JustJess posted, with maybe even an extra button or two. My favorite feature is that it comes with a docking station for recharging the mouse, so I never have to physically change the batteries. I love it.

While I love that system a lot I see a huge problem with it.

I am a gamer. I've got a match coming up in 15 minutes and my mouse batteries are dying. I either have to have another pack charging in the stand, or have a second mouse that's been charging.

There is a hidden convenience with being able to use generic batteries (rechargeable ones too), and that is you can charge as many as you want, as often as you want, and you're set when armageddon comes.

I want to try a trackball too. I've been thinking of buying/obtaining an old serial 2-button trackball just to see how it works. I used one once while fixing a computer and it felt really awkward, but would be nice after a while. I'd imagine the dirt problems it encounters would be bad.

[MexicanOnABike]

ok, I'm left handed. i need a mouse that has a wheel, wheel click left, right buttons and possibly 2 side buttons. any recommendations? my microsoft mouse has just left me. and only after 6years!

[AquaFox]

i love my mouse! it's really easy to transport, the battery life is insane! it's light weight and really responsive compared to all the other mice I've used. i'm unable to use a regular mouse now, i got to bring this around with me. the four way scrolling wheel makes stuff so much easier.. also the programmable buttons rock... i use it hours every day and the battery lasts many months



edit: btw, it's a Microsoft Laser Notebook Mouse 6000


laser
bluetooth
4 way scrolling
programmable buttons
single AA battery, lasts a lifetime
best mouse that will ever be made ever

[Halx]

Mex.. the MS mouse is perfect.. get another one.

[oFia]

Originally Posted by JustJess

Logitech VX Revolution
Behold, and weep at its beauty.

Programmable buttons, a scroll wheel that easily switches from free spin to modulated spin, ergonomic design, cordless, storage spot for the USB bit, and it's pretty too!

I bought the MX Revolution (this one is rechargeable) first and loved it so much I needed the LX Revolution.

The only possible problem with these mouses is if you use middle click for links - you'll need to reprogram buttons.

I would recommend both. Though, try to find them on sale.

[MexicanOnABike]

AquaFox: i checked out that mouse but turns out it's too small for my needs.

halx: ya know what? i checked online for 2days now and I can't think of a mouse that can replace this one. either they're right handed or fucked up wireless which I don't want. (i have no need for it and buying batteries is not an option .. my computer has to be self powered through usb cable.)

so I guess it's another ms mouse for me. unless staples has a miracle mouse that i just didnt see yet. I even thought about a trackball but i'm not sure i could get used to it. we'll see.

[Lasereth]

I use this: http://www.pacificgeek.com/productimages/xl/W1668.jpg

I've used the exact same mouse for years and years and years. It's a ball-mouse with left click, right click, scroll wheel. I use it for gaming mainly due to the added friction (and therefore precision) from the ball that optical mice simply don't give me. I can't use the mice with buttons all over it either because I tend to hold my mouse REALLY hard during games for added precision and I always accidently click the 25 extra buttons.

The best part: these mice are typically $1.00 because no one uses them anymore.

If I'm not gaming at all, I can use an identical mouse with optical functionality. I cannot under ANY circumstances use wireless mice though...the lag (and it's there whether people notice it or not) in most wireless mice simply fuck me over in all games and even while using Windows. I haven't used a modern, expensive ($50-$100) wireless mouse so I don't know if the lag is fixed but the old school Microsoft mice that got so popular (that have even been mentioned in this thread) used to have a 5 millisecond or so lag that drove me insane.

[Jinn]

I take mousing very seriously.

Lasereth:

Your video card wisdom aside, you're really quite wrong about ball mice. They're incredibly imprecise, in the strictest meaning of the word. Certainly there is more friction, but that doesn't imply accuracy. You could make the same argument for an analog control stick on a video game console versus a digital control pad. The analog stick offers more "friction" in the sense that it has a finite set of states (8) it can be in. This could be a good thing, as minor movements are ignored and it collapses into the nearest state. However, with a digital input, your possibilities for input direction number in the hundreds (depending on the precision of the controller), so you have much more control. The downside to this is that minor movements make dramatic differences, so you must be much more precise in your movement.

I do, however, agree with your sentiment that early wireless mice were wretched, and the latency made certain games frustratingly unplayable. I used one of the Microsoft optical mice once, and I will never use it again.

Additionally, ergonomics is important to me, because I typically gamed for 12-18 hours at a time, comfort was important. Using standard "block" mice like the Dell, Microsoft, and even some Logitech mice wears on my hand and lessens my grip.

Some "ergonomic" mice are bad, also, because of their weight distribution. I've held mice that were simply too light and flew across the mouse pad with little resistance, and mice that felt like bricks dragging across concrete. Weight, however, is a very different thing for different people, depending on your mousing angle and wrist strength.

My personal favorite (and longtime favorite) is my MX1000 on a Aqua3 pad (by X-Ray Technology).

The surface is important (inversely to the weight of your mouse) for making sure that you have fluid motion; I strongly believe that an effective mouse should be able to traverse your screen with less than 3 inches of lateral movement from your hand. This typically means one to 1.5 mouse-widths of movement (in total span) to cross your screen. Time spent moving your arm, lifting the mouse, setting the mouse down, or doing anything but moving the cursor is time a better-equipped player is not spending. By the time you get to their head, they've likely been on your head for a half-second or more. Try watching your hand the next time you game. Consider the time spent moving it around the pad.

Ergonomic standards recommend using the force of your arm rather than your wrist, simply because extended movement (maximum left to maximum right) movement of your wrist is straining. The ideal mouse, however, doesn't require you to ever reach the tolerance of your wrist. My mouse, properly configured, requires no more movement of my hand than the distance from A to H on keyboard.

Button use is important to, and I've found that using a mouse with a mechanical click (physical sliding of plastic) is less responsive than a mouse with membrane clicking. Each time you click, the plastic must move down to contact the sensor, and after the click it must return to the starting position. This is more time spent clicking that could be avoided by membrane. On the MX1000, you will not notice a "click" in the sense that anything moves. Furthermore, because your hand is in an ergonomic position (pressing the button with the hand at rest), you don't have to bend at the knuckle to click. "Clicking" simply means movement at the upper knuckle - more force, less time, and less discomfort over long gaming sessions.

The final consideration is, of course, precision. I'd been buying the precision optical mice as they were released by Logitech and others, but they simply weren't as accurate as I felt they could be. When I heard about the release of a laser mouse, I was sold. The MX1000 has a amazing accuracy and a 600 Hz sample rate - 6000 scans of the surface every second tells me that a minor change in the position of my hand can me a dramatic movement on the screen. After you get used to it, it feels like a natural extension of your hand rather than a mechanical device.

On latency: I hesitated strongly when I realized that the MX1000 was a wireless mouse, but it uses Fast RF - a technology that allows 2.5 times the speed of conventional wireless. I'd estimate the mathematical latency at 900 microseconds, but thats far beyond what I can notice, and (practically) faster than my computer can receive the input.

On power: I've had the mouse die twice - once before a CAL match for CounterStrike 1.6 (years ago) and once during the middle of nothing important. It rarely dies because it turns off after a few seconds of non-movement, and it's habitual for me to throw into the charger. The time it died before the CAL match, I freaked. But I threw it into the charger for a few minutes (couldn't have been more than five) and although the battery light was at 1, it lasted through the match and for the rest of the night, before I remembered to charge it again.

On price: I consider a mouse an investment just like any other piece of hardware in my computer, and if I'm paying $300 for a video card, I don't see much value in getting a $10 mouse. It might look pretty, but a computer is interactive multimedia, and I want the utmost in control and comfort when I'm interacting. Additionally, a mouse should always outlive your computer (two years) and so it's a fine investment to spend $60-$70 on a mouse you really love.



Technological evangelism aside, make sure you find the mouse that's right for you. Consider comfort, speed, accuracy, weight, mousing surface and price. If you're doing things all day long in Dreamweaver, Flash, Word and Excel, you don't need a laser mouse. If, however, you need pinpoint accuracy (2-5 pixels) as quickly as possible, try a laser mouse, preferably weighted for your hand and strength..

[MikeSty]

I don't know, my little MS optical has lasted years and it was pretty cheap. My friends all have fancy mice that have all died and had to be replaced.

I have to also disagree with Lasereth. If more friction is what you want, go with a heftier pad.

[stevie667]

Logitech Track Man Cordless

I had some issues with strain from my mouse before christmas, now i have one of these. It took me a good month to get used to the ball, the cursor would go flying all over the screen at first, highlighting a single word was the curse of the devil!

Now much easier, no mouse mat, can bung it anywhere, and the batteries are still going since christmas time.

[Frosstbyte]

Like JinnKai, I've been using the MX1000 laser mouse since it was first released and have loved it. My only complaint has been that it fairly rapidly stops sending a signal to the base unit to conserve power if it's not in motion. That usually means for very precise movements I have to do a little coercing of the mouse to get it exactly where I want it to be. The charging system is also a little picky, but the mouse is 3+ years old at this point, so I just need to clean off the contacts a little bit and off we go.

When I buy a new one, I'll be buying another logitec cordless laser mouse, though I haven't picked one out yet.

[Lasereth]

Originally Posted by JinnKai

I take mousing very seriously.

Lasereth:

Your video card wisdom aside, you're really quite wrong about ball mice. They're incredibly imprecise, in the strictest meaning of the word. Certainly there is more friction, but that doesn't imply accuracy. You could make the same argument for an analog control stick on a video game console versus a digital control pad. The analog stick offers more "friction" in the sense that it has a finite set of states (8) it can be in. This could be a good thing, as minor movements are ignored and it collapses into the nearest state. However, with a digital input, your possibilities for input direction number in the hundreds (depending on the precision of the controller), so you have much more control. The downside to this is that minor movements make dramatic differences, so you must be much more precise in your movement.

I guess what I'm trying to describe isn't really precision even though I stand by my friction statement (I'm more precise with an optical mouse on a friction(y) surface than an optical mouse on a gliding surface). What I don't like about optical mice is the fact that when you pick them up half a centimeter off of the surface, the laser still reads movement, so moving the mouse slightly above the surface to another location (we're talking millimeters) in order to pull off some mouse moves isn't possible the way I do it. In Battlefield when I'm flying a jet and I run out of room while trying to perform a flip, I have to pick up the mouse VERY quickly to allow more room to flip, and when I pick it up to move it with an optical mouse, it reads the movement while I'm physically relocating the mouse resulting in one spectacular nosedive into a lake. This happens in every situation requiring the moving of the mouse. Furthermore, when I play PC games, I have a lot of "air time," or time when I've actually picked the mouse up off the surface to prevent inprecise or accidental movement. Again, optical mice do not allow this.

I played Battlefield and WoW for a straight year with an optical mouse trying to get used to it due to ball mice being completely and totally obsolete. A year later I found myself feeling completely used to the optical mouse and I really thought I had it down pat in games. For shits and giggles I plugged in my old ball mouse. Instantly, with no configuration changes, my kill to death ratio in Battlefield went up <B>drastically</B> and my WoW performance felt infinitely superior due to the aforementioned respositioning issues that I always have with optical mice.

[Redjake]

I use the Microsoft Wheel Mouse Version 1.0; It's been passed down from Lasereth to me. I bet the damn thing has thousands upon thousands of hours played with it. It's 10 years old, still going strong. A similar situation happened to me as with Lasereth;

I was using an Intellimouse for about 2 years (wireless optical) and I had got nice and used to it in games and every day applications. One day, I unearthed the Microsoft Wheel Mouse V1, ball included, and I mutilated every game I touched, including World of Warcraft (I was able to navigate the UI much, much faster) and especially FPS games. So much more accurate when I use a ball mouse. I know that optical is technically more accurate, but I really mopped up with that ball mouse. I am still using it today.

<img src="http://www.psextreme.com/Images/Products/B00006/BA0U.jpg">

[Jinn]

Your argument about picking the mouse up is fair - if I lift the MX more than 3/4 of an inch off the surface, I lose any and all control. If I were consistently picking up the mouse, I'd hate the MX. It's a bit heavy to be lifting, and it's tough to hold in the air.

That said, I don't think you should ever be lifting a mouse. It's a waste of time, especially in FPS'. I remember back in the day having to lift the mouse and move it to the opposite side of the mouse pad just to get enough pad to roll to the other side of the screen.

I just tested it, and I can do a barrel roll in the USMC helo in Gulf of Oman by moving my mouse three inches from left to right. Full afterburner straight up to straight down in the F-35, took me 6.5ish inches..

If your sensitivity is high enough, you should never leave a square bigger than two hands wide and two hands tall -- do you see how that could save a lot of time, particularly in picking up the mouse?

EDIT: To give you an idea what I'm talking about..

I typically play on my desktop like this:



But if I'm lazy and want to play from my bed, I can turn the monitor and put my mouse like this -- I just played two rounds on oilfields and didnt have to move the mouse outside that little area the entire game..

[cyrnel]

Mice are it for me. I've used trackballs & pads & everything since they arrived but I move between systems so frequently that I've never been able to stick with one long enough to become proficient. Even chained in my office as a developer, with Apollo-expensive funky ergo desks & keyboards, I still stuck with mice.

I don't have a brand preference. It's more about shape and movement. I hate anything with all-upward facing sides; it makes them difficult to shuffle. Tiny mice give me hand cramps, but they do fit in the briefcase more easily. Huge mice run into everything. God, the MS 6000 desktops are monstrous. I'm always knocking things around my desk or hitting the buttons on my coffee cup. Not much more annoying than that. The Logitech revolutions are a nice blend for desktop use but I've seen their range and/or susceptibility to interference drive customers nuts.

Currently, for my main desktops I'm using a MS Laptop 4000 and an old wired IBM optical in place of my 2nd MS 6000 desktop that just died (my last). Two MS laptop mice are always in my work junk (a 4000 & 6000) for laptop use, and convenience when customers have funky controls. Two because, unfortunately, as a brand MS mice have easily been the most unreliable of any I've used since the Lisa.

Oh, and any mouse that still tracks when lifted needs to be shot repeatedly, with my best Eastwood squint given to their developers for good measure.

@Jinnkai, what's with those disposable cups!

[Jinn]

Less dishes.

[Lasereth]

I have every sensitivity turned all the way to maxed out in BF2 and BF2142 including pitch and yaw. Until optical mice allow me to pick my mouse up off the surface a couple of millimeters without it still tracking movement I'll be using the old and busted. My play style is embedded from years and years and years of FPS/Battlefield play so there's not a chance of me learning to not suspend the mouse for 100% control during firefights.

Hell, maybe it's just the way my arm is designed....it sorta does lever the mouse into the air unconsciously...that would explain why Redjake does it too.

[SecretMethod70]

I use the Logitech MX 1000 right now and before that I used the Logitech MX 500. I'll say this: I *love* the features of the MX 1000. However, there are two things I wish I could have back from the MX 500. First, and most significantly, the scrollwheel on the MX 500 presses MUCH more easily than the MX 1000. If I could mix the ease of scrolling on the MX 1000 with the ease of pressing on the MX 500, I would be very happy. This may seem nitpicky, but I've found that the amount of force that's needed to press the scrollwheel button ends up hurting my hand after extended use. Related to that, I prefer the shape of the MX 500 to the MX 1000 as well.

So, as much as I love the features of the MX 1000 (although I must admit I almost never use the sidescroll), I've been occasionally looking for a new mouse which would feel more comfortable to me. Sadly, I've been disappointed. Logitech has newer products which have similar designs to the MX 500, but they're all lacking in some feature I like from the MX 1000. The closest I've found to what I'm looking for is the Logitech G7. It may seem like a minor complaint, but the big thing missing from that one for me is the forward thumb button. I enjoy being able to move back and forward without using the keyboard. For now, I'm sticking with the MX 1000 because it has the features I've come to rely on, but I'm keeping my eye out for a similarly featured mouse whose scrollwheel button has less resistance as well.

[Jinn]

Yea, with as much web browsing as I do, I couldn't live with the mouse-bound forward and back.. although I don't think I've ever used the button in between them..

[Plaid13]

i currently have the logitech mx518 i love it =) I have had microsoft intellimice but both of them i had lasted less then a year of heavy use. the buttons start to double click when you only want a single click. it gets very very annoying. I used a old logitech three button ball mouse back when i used windows 3.11 and windows 98 it never died. But then i wanted a opital mouse. So i moved to the microsoft mice that didnt last long Then back to this logitech mx518 thats now about a year and a half old without any trouble at all. Love being able to adjust the sensitivity with the buttons on the mouse. Its the most comfortable mouse i have ever used.

That being said... mice are like cars all designed for midgets. I would really like a mouse that i can rest my palm on without dragging my fingers on the mousepad/desk whatever. None are anywhere near big enough to fit my paw.

[oFia]

Originally Posted by Plaid13

That being said... mice are like cars all designed for midgets. I would really like a mouse that i can rest my palm on without dragging my fingers on the mousepad/desk whatever. None are anywhere near big enough to fit my paw.

Have you looked at the microsoft habu? My bf used a microsoft intellimouse for the longest time and finally bought a new mouse... one of these. It's a mouse made by microsoft and logitech. One of my complaints with it was it was too big for my hand.

The habu has the same type of shape.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally Posted by JustJess

Logitech VX Revolution

Behold, and weep at its beauty.

Programmable buttons, a scroll wheel that easily switches from free spin to modulated spin, ergonomic design, cordless, storage spot for the USB bit, and it's pretty too!

I love mine... I have the MX which is the full size model.... LOVE IT. LOVE IT. LOVE IT.

I love the wheel and clutch ... just great for going thru PAGES AND PAGES of code, spreadsheets or whatever scroll bar hell you may be in.

[Willravel]

Just got my VX in the mail. Logitech has won me on mice for life. Easily customizable with Mac OS X as I'm sure it is with Windows. My only tiny complaint is that on start-up, it's slightly slow to click again. Still, I don't use my computer for emergency, so a second or two really makes no difference. I'm thinking about getting a diNovo Edge keyboard (talk about badass), but I'm not sure how well it works with Mac OS X.

This wheel on this thing is a dream, Apple could learn a thing or two in it's next generation of Mighty Mouse.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally Posted by willravel

Just got my VX in the mail. Logitech has won me on mice for life. Easily customizable with Mac OS X as I'm sure it is with Windows. My only tiny complaint is that on start-up, it's slightly slow to click again. Still, I don't use my computer for emergency, so a second or two really makes no difference. I'm thinking about getting a diNovo Edge keyboard (talk about badass), but I'm not sure how well it works with Mac OS X.

This wheel on this thing is a dream, Apple could learn a thing or two in it's next generation of Mighty Mouse.

at least we can agree on one thing!

[Willravel]

Okay, now I'm a bit confused. I enjoy the functionality of the (Logitech VX Revolution) mouse, the cool buttons, the maddly fast and multi directional scroll wheel; but I have a bit of a problem. It seems to take a bit of time to start up. Where it took 5-10 seconds before, it's now taking up to 2-3 minutes. I like to sit right down at my computer and get going. Now I have to take off my sock from my chair and throw it at my mouse on the other side of the room, then wait till a commercial to get up and go over to use it. It's frustrating. The application support through System Preferences only seems to be able to customize the buttons. Anyone have any ideas?

[MexicanOnABike]

wireless? if it's still on waranty(less than a year, contact logitech.) i'm guessing something's not making the wireless link.