Willravel

The first integrated iSight was actually in the "Rev C" iMac line, intruduced 10/12/05. This was also the first Apple Remote computer. The PowerMac didn't come out until 2006. Why do people just post information that they make up or guess?
And they are....
Not likely. Apple actually made a challenge to anyone in the world if they can make a virus for Mac OSX they would win $25,000. Also, Mac presents a challenge. I can write a virus that can get through Vista, but no one has ever been able to get through Mac Security.

I think that Honda would be more like Sony or HP, it has a large market share and isn't that expensive. Mac is more like BMW or Porsche. It comes fast and stable, without the need for modifications.

I think the guy was really pissed and I'm not sure why. What drives someone to "hate" a product or the people that use it? I'm sure if we met, he'd like me just fine.

filtherton

More like a jaguar: you have to take it to a mechanic to change the battery.

Halx

Well you say without need for modifications, but I mention the things I care about and you tell me there's a workaround for it.

One MORE thing: I used to work with a Mac and PC side by side. Both did their jobs the same except the Mac had one glaring disadvantage. Word processing. I don't know, maybe its the way I use my keyboard to do stuff, but I found that the functionality of a mac's input devices as well as the actual word processing program (MS Word) severely slowed down my work. I always preferred the PC to simply *type*

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Bossnass

I don't know about Macs or mac owners, but I've long been of the opinion that BMWs and Porsches are overpriced, overrated and sold on brand power. The only people that really support them are the lot that bought one and had to justify to themselves it was worth it. And I don't even need to bring up the standard 'compensation' issues.

Willravel

I've never noticed a difference in word processing, but it'll depend on what kinds of coputers you work on.

I'm really curious why people think that the Apple/PC commercials are filled with misinformation. I've never seen one that said Mac has more games or that or that you can modify a Mac like a PC. They are clear.

Maybe I should list the ones I'm familair with:
1) Sabotage: In this add, PC has apparently hired someone to replace the Mac guy and say that the PC is better. The Mac guy shows up and fake says he likes Macs. It really wasn't making an argument, it was just being cute or dumb.
2) Tech Support: In this add a tech guy joins the cast in order to add a camera with tape. Mac guy explains that the camera is already ready to go without trouble and built in with the Mac. The hardware and software is ready to go on all new iMacs, MacBooks, and MacBook Pros. No need to install anything, load software, etc. It's true. As to the PC, some PCs do have a built in camera, but only some, and not all of them are ready to go when you plug and go.
3) Surgery: PC is wearing a hospital gown and getting ready for a Vista upgade. "Like a lot of PCs, I have to update my graphics card, my memory, and if I want the premium package I need a faster processor." says the PC. The argument the add is making has to do with how some PCs do need to upgrade in order to keep up with Vista. Why? The last version of Windows came out 10/25/01. The last version, 5.1 service pack 2, came out in mid 2004. Many people have only needed to upgrade for extra stuff, like games and media. You can run MS Office on a 6 year old machine (if you can get it to last that long, which isn't likely). The last version of Mac OS X to come out was 10.4.8, which came out in September of 2006. 10.5 comes out in the spring. Mac constantly upgrades and improves. Windows is slower to upgrade, so either the jumps are much bigger, and you might need to upgrate to keep up, or the jumps are smaller, and Windows isn't keeping up with Mac OS X. It's rather lose/lose.
4) Sales Pitch: Mac: "Hellow, I'm a Mac." PC: "...and BUY a PC!" PC uses popups and flashy BS to advertize. I'm sure we've all seen the Dell or HP commercials with flashy prices and little substance. Mac, sarcastically: "That's very subtle."
5) Meant for Work: In this, PC is covered in stickers. He complains about having to deal with kids. I think that we can all agree that Mac's software is much easier for kids. You don't need to know anything more complicated than how to read or use a mouse.
6) Counselor: In this add, we see PC and Mac are in therepy dealing with their issues. PC says that he feels inadequate. "PCs get viruses, we can't do as much out of the box," both of which are true. iLife comes with all the creative software anyone needs to start right out of the box, which PC recognizes.
7) Better Results: In this add, PC proudly explains how he just finished a home movie. Mac says that he has also just finished a movie. Mac's movie is supermodel Gisele Bundchen, obviously representing quality and looking professional. PC's home movie is a man in a dress. Has anyone here had a chance to use Windows DVD Maker for Vista yet? I have! It's similar to the first incarnation of iMovie, but it is missing ease of use and many features (like the ability to use iTunes, for example).
8) Self Pity: In this add, Mac is wearing a suit, which sparks PC's curiosity. Mac explains that Macs have been able to run Microsoft Office for years (true). PC gets sick because he feels like he's lost his edge.
9) Accident: In this add, PC is in a wheel chair and has casts on both arms and his left leg. When Mac inquires, PC explains how his power cord was tripped over. Mac explains how MacBooks have a magnetic power cord that simply pulls off when pulled. There is no danger of accedentally pulling your computer off your desk.
10): Angel/Devil: In this add, Mac has a photobook made from iPhoto. When PC looks at it, the cliche Devil and Angels appear, and then he hadns back the book. No message here, just entertaiment.
11) Trust Mac In this add, PC is in disguise. PC complains that he has to take extreme measures because he is plagued by spyware out there. Mac doesn't have to worry about Spyware and viruses.
12) [B]Out of the Box[/]: In this add, each of our comptuer representatives is in a box. Mac says he's thinking about making a movie, or a website, or trying out his built in camera. PC has to download some drivers, erase trial software, then read through some manuals. Mac doesn't come with trial software at all. Nothing expires after 30, 60 or 90 days. You get it, and you don't have to worry about it again.
13) Touche: In this add, they introduce themselves
Mac: "Hey, I'm a Mac."
PC: " and I'm a PC."
Mac: "and I'm a PC, too."
Mac goes on to explain how you can run either Mac OSX or Windows on an Apple, which makes him the only computer you'll ever need. PCs can't run Mac OS X (legally, or efficiently).
14) Work vs. Home: I think this was the first add. Mac explains how he's into doing movies, music, podcasts (which were pioneered on a Mac). PC says he's into time sheets and spreadsheets and pie chartes. The idea would be that Mac comes with the software in iLife that allows you to immediatally start working on photos, music, video, and podcast projects. PCs, right out of the box, can't, though you can do basic stuff like spreadheets.
15) Viruses: In this add, PC has a virus. Macs don't get viruses. It's really that simple.
16) Restarting: In this add, PC freezes and has to restart. Statistically speaking, computers that run Windows freeze and have to restart much, much more often than Macs. Many Macs go through years of service without freezing. I've never heard of a PC that's never frozen. Have you?
17) iLife: PC is using an iPod, an apple product if I remember correctly. PC explains that he uses the iPod with iTunes. Mac explians that iMovie, iPhoto and iWeb (safari), bcause they work as well as iTunes.
18) Network: In this add (the last I swear), Mac and PC have set up a network. An asian woman comes along representing a digital camera. Mac starts speaking Japanese with the camera, causing PC to ask, "You speak her language?" Macs come ready to communicate with cameras. I've used dozens of digital cameras, printers, scanners and camcorders on my Mac, and I've never had to download a driver. You plug it in and it automaticaly works. When you plug a digital camera in, it automaticaly opens iPhoto and asks if you're ready to import the pictures. It's something.


So yeah, that's the list, and I've not seen one add that misleads or lies about anything.

cyrnel

The BMW analogy works in friendly territory, but outside it's a bit like telling people they'll go to hell if they don't believe.

They're different. Like Linux is different. For whatever reasons you may prefer one over the other.

Does it work?
Do you like it?

If yes, great. If not, keep looking. Thing religions are dumb.

For myself, as a fairly heavy Windows user, MacOS rocks. It is so fucking stable and predictable, like I'd expect from a good *nix, which is what's underneath.

You want annoying? Try to keep your senses and speed while running Windows inside of Mac OS. Different keys, on-screen buttons and things are reversed. (Trace that back to intentional Windows differences to help avoid the "Mac copy" arguments.) Even simple copy/paste. Cmd-c to copy in Mac, then flip to parallels and Ctrl-V to paste. Easy to screw up and wipe your clipboard. Sure I can bootcamp to a sweet, native, XP but that takes the good things away.

My dual-use experiment continues but I admit it isn't as smooth as I'd hoped. People, or at least this people, don't work well split between two universes.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

YaWhateva

Sorry I got it wrong that the macbookpro was the first, that still doesnt change the fact that integrated webcams were out before that in Windows laptops. Here are the facts:

Sony did it first several years before
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Pr...199809/98-085/

If you don't believe me. Apple was the first to put it into a latch, but no, they were not the first to have integrated webcams in their systems. I also do not understand why people just post information that they make up or guess.

Just one quick one off the top of my head, Widgets. Yahoo, I believe did that first...or maybe it was an open source thing...I can't remember and don't want to look it up.

Oh ya? A quick google search of OS X virus came up with this. Granted, it's a Trojan, but my point is still there.

http://www.macrumors.com/2006/02/16/...w-os-x-trojan/

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. Nearly every Mac owner I have ever talked to has been just like this. A little to pretentious for my tastes.

Also, I can't believe that people say Macs come ready to use out of the box. I had to get and install a ton of software and run many, many updates just get the laptop in working order. True you don't need drivers but there are definitely a ton of updates you have to deal with along with finding OS X Univeral Binary ready programs.

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"This is my United States of Whateva!"

Willravel

Well I just went through the adds, and I misunderstood them. Never did they say they were the first to have integrated webcams.
So Mac said they were the first to have Widgets and Yahoo?
It's never been confirmed by any news source or Apple. Notice how the site is MacRumors? Also, if it is true, it's a basic Trojan and it's not been reported to have infected anyone to Apple, ever. Semantically speaking, a trojan is not a virus.

Edit: So wait, there might be one trojan for Mac, but there are still tens of thousands of viruses, spyware, and trojans for Winows, and Vista isn't going to stop them (frankly, Vista is a glorified service pack, anyway). I'd say that the virus argument has to go to Mac. If you have a Mac, you don't have to worry about viruses.

YaWhateva

and Yahoo? no, I said, Yahoo did that first. And yes I am fairly certain that Apple has stated they were the first to implement Widgets, I'm not going to bother looking it up, you can if you want.

My other points were valid enough that I don't feel I need to elaborate on them. I said in my original post that it wasnt a virus it was a trojan, but I just thought I'd post it.

Just so you know, I am not against Apple or Macs. I do wish Apple users would take the time to learn at least something about Windows before they start bashing it. I am not talking about you here, will. I am talking about those people that think that if they install Windows on their Mac they will instantly be loaded with viruses and spyware and have intermittent crashes. Why is there a Norton Antivirus program that most Mac people recommend to install and keep updated for OS X if there is no risk of a virus? I really do like my MacbookPro and I will say that Mac does do some things very well. I do not believe that they do anything "better" than a Windows machine though. They can definitely do movies and photobooks and such easier than in Windows and on par with Windows, but I dont think better. With Windows it just takes a little more know how.

And in ad 16, the PC freezes and has to restart several times. Well, I know many people who have Macs and they definitely do freeze, like mine does. So many people complain about kernel panics on their Macs and I am one of them. Even a bunch of cases straight out of the box. and the same laptop in bootcamp has never once froze on me...same computer, different OS, one OS freezes occasionally, the other never has. Kinda weird huh? I guess that ad is a little misleading.

Ad 18, I have never once had a digital camera, camcorder, or anything really for that matter that I have plugged into a USB port and had it not be automatically detected, unless it was like 8 years old (which I think OS X would have problems with also).

Ad 3, I have had to put my macbook pro under "surgery" to upgrade in order to get use out of some OS X programs. I had to add another stick of RAM. I've never had anything in Windows except games that require 2 GB of RAM to run well.

Those 3 ads just jumped out at me as being a little misleading as I skimmed your post.

P.S. I hope you don't take this arguement personally, I love to argue.

__________________
“If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly

"This is my United States of Whateva!"

Willravel

Freedom comes with the responsibility of eternal vigilance. In order for Apple to stay ahead of viruses, they need to make changes that make it increasingly more difficult to infect. I don't think that OS X 10.0 would still be virus free today if it had not been changed, in other words. Mac Security does what Windows Security does, but are more succesful.
The question is which freezes a lot more often? The answer is a resounding "PC". Yes, some Macs freeze, though in my last 8 years of experience with 3 different Macs it's never happened. They are more stable, though, on average not freezing any where near as often as PCs.
Got Drivers?
Would you mind being mroe specific? How much RAM did your comp come with? How much did you really need? What programs needed more RAM?
You should see me in TFPolitics. I'm right there with ya.

docbungle

Macs. PCs. They're just machines. They don't do anything without your help. Just pick one and run with it. If you don't like one, then switch. But don't think that what works so well for you means squat to someone else. Because it usually doesn't.

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Bossnass

The Apple/PC debate is much like politics; people from each side defending and attacking without even allowing the idea that the other side may be correct to enter the argument. Also, full of propaganda and bullshit.


http://www.our-picks.com/archives/20...s-perspective/

Willravel

This thread deevolved into a Mac bashing thread early on. That's why I posted the adds and descriptions. This thread is here to address whether the commercials are misleading or make false claims. Instead of making general statements about the Mac vs. PC debate, we should concentrate on the commercials. If you want, I can find them on YouTube and imbed them, too.

Bossnass

You appear willing to go to much effort to prove the validity of the commercials. I certainly wouln't put bother imbedding the videos here.

The nature of advertising lends itself to be misleading, but not necessarily make false claims. Obviously, Macs are going to emphasize their strengths, and the commercials also tend to focus on perceived weaknesses of the PCs. If there were similar ads from a reversed perspective, highlighting all the weaknesses of Macs propaganda style, there would be equal debate. The problem is diehard Mac people and diehard PC people feel the need to blindly ignore the weaknesses of their camp while denying the benefit of the other.

Ch'i

In my experience, I've only seen a mac freeze twice (note that this happened on an eight year old mac 4 years ago); I've had PC's freeze countless times (even the newer ones). PC's are generic and can be modified into excellent gaming computers, and there are more games available for them. However, Mac's have the same capability, just less games available. Due to recent price drops, Mac's are not so much more expensive than PC's, and Apple's software parameters are becoming more flexible. If you understand code and the methods needed to properly maintain a PC, then it probably is a simple operating system; the same can be said of a Mac. Comparing the time needed to learn Mac's vs. the time needed to learn PC's, Mac's seem drastically simpler. Its clear that both sides have alot to offer. Yet when all is said and sampled, I still find Apple to be the better choice.

They are also definitely more innovative than their competitors.

Lasereth

If anyone has used Windows Vista then you can't possibly not laugh out loud at the latest commercial. We use Vista on a test PC at work and we go through the cancel/allow stuff everyday. So when I saw the commercial last night on TV I couldn't stop laughing. Easily the best Mac versus PC commercial that's been released, mainly because the security guy portrayed Vista PERFECTLY!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4FF_aT_mE8

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catback

Wow this thread is long with typical can to/can not argueing back and forth...The commericals are effective but in reality to compare Apple and PC it just can't be done, they aren't like items. A PC is basically any computer hardware that one would use at home, Apple is a computer hardware maker and software designer--unlike their competition they make everything in-house, Microsoft is a software company that makes software to be run on computer hardware made by Apple, IBM, Sony, Toshiba, and many other companies--they don't have design control over the hardware their customer uses, All the computer hardware makers that run windows on their computer only make the hardware and don't make software...So to sum it all up in a sense.

You can't compare a fully made (by one company) car to an engine made by an engine manufacturer. There is no validity in argueing the car is faster than the engine or better or anything.

Redjake

as a proud Vista laptop owner, I laughed out loud at full volume when I watched that commercial........

this one is finally true

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vanblah

The reasons Macs are "better" are obvious:

1) they control what hardware you get to put in your machine. Period.
2) they have much better R&D ... why? See #1. They don't have to deal with Uncle Joe's Garage Made sound card.

Most of the technology that Mac (and Windows and Linux) uses was originally developed by and for the U.S. Military. All OSes owe their lives to the Mother of all OSes: VMS. But enough with the history lesson. My point is there's never any reason to defend an Operating System or a brand. The thread "devolved" into Mac bashing because of the perception that the commercials are Windows/PC bashing. In the end, both OSes do what they are intended to do. And if you know what YOU'RE doing they do it well.

When my mother asked me what kind of computer to get so that she could check email and surf the web I responded: Mac. Why? Because I don't want her calling me every 10 minutes with questions.

What OS do I use at home for: serving iTunes on a touch screen in the living room? Windows XP.

What OS do I use at home for: recording high-end, multi-track audio and playing incredibly complex multi-sampled vsti instruments? Windows XP.

What OS do I use at home for: my 5-year-old daughter to play games? Windows XP.

What OS do I use for gaming? Windows XP.

I like "PCs" because I am very comfortable with them and know them inside and out. Do I have to reboot them because of instability? Hardly. The biggest problem that people have is trying to do too much with one computer. This is true in ALL OSes (except for server OSes and even then you can overdo it). Try to do too much with a poorly tuned Mac and you'll have the same problems as with a poorly tuned PC.

Macs ARE elegant. Macs ARE stable. Apple DOES have some incredible R&D. If they come up with a better workflow for something, GREAT! Windows and *nix should be able to benefit from that R&D in my opinion. It's the way the world works. Ford introduced airbags in 1971 ... imagine if they were the only people allowed to use airbags because other car manufacturers weren't allowed to "copy" that invention. Same with anti-lock brakes.

I'm non-partisan when it comes to OSes.

Jinn

Ahh, VMS.. :-)

And van, I couldn't agree more. My post above details why I use a PC for some things and why an Apple would be better for others. That, however, is precisely why I find the Apple vs PC commercials insulting. It's praying on the idea that that one is actually inferior, rather than designed for a certain purpose.

Unix (and consequently MacOS) is designed specifically to be a multi-user system and acts as such. Windows was never designed as a server OS (don't get me started on NT) and therefore caters much more to a single user.

And the Vista UAC commercial? Garbage. There's tons of settings to change this, without ugly registry hacks or other manipulations. If you're consistently seeing the warning with a specific program, just mark the program to run as Admin!

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Aurakles

I think the one think people forget is that the commercial is actually an Apple commercial. It is supposed to be deceptively clever or just deceptive. Apple is trying to sell its products and convert people to Windows. Simple put, there are more people using Windows based computers than Macs, and the number is substantial. Apple, with the iPod, has already eaten into the consciousness of most people, so why not try to get those same people to buy more Apple products. One cannot expect an Apple commercial to, in anyway, be fair to Windows. That's like Al Gore endorsing George Bush and his policies.

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boink

I can't find that analogy...but whenever I see a BMW in traffic, they'r ass holes, weaving and not using turn signals...cutting people off etc. like the sticker price is their 'right of way' they might be cool cars but I'm put off of them by their owners.

anyway...the PC/Mac commercials just give me a sour impression...Mac kid being a pompus ass. I'm an artist and I like my PC just fine...alotta neat shareware for PC's to do art stuff on. when I was getting into 3D game art, ALL pro apps I could see ran on WinNT or SGI comps. then some were ported to other windows virsions...but I never heard of Maya or Softimage,or 3D Studiomax etc. running on a Mac. just 2D graphics apps. which also run just fine (for me) on a PC. I'm still on 'ol WinNT here...geez I need a new comp !

I also love Doom, Quake and all Id Games for that matter. these games have a huge community for custom add ons which I never saw for Macs when I was big into Q3A. not to mention the remapping of Quake 1 with modern graphics (bump etc.) I've got no intrest in switching to another FPS games.

I'm curious about Macs...but only because they don't get hit as much on the virus, spywhere, homepage hacking etc. that's about it.

oh, and about the iPod and pod "cast" thing...seems to me I've got a pod 'cast' I downloaded to my NT rig...it's just an audio file...and not a (broad) cast of any kind...for a while I thought people were pulling tunes out of the air like the 'pod was wireless like a cell phone...not so I guess. it's just like a walkman but you can't even share pot to pod...how sucky is that !? the whole "podcast" term is a marketing word and really untrue.

it's more importiant to me that I could share music on the spot than carry a whole Tower Records in my back pockett.

Willravel

Doom 3 and Quake 4 work fine on Mac, just fyi. Many custom add ons are Mac only, but you might have not been exposed to them being that they are not often spoke of outside of Mac circles.

Also, I think Maya is one of the best modeling, animation, effects and rendering programs on the market.

boink

that sucks...wonder why they don't post them on Doom3 world or...?
oh well...either way the adds strike me as a jab and leave me sour.

in the end I also think its whatever your used to using that's easiest or 'best'

found the mention of BMW and Porsche...heh, well... there's a HUGE world of mods for BMW and Porsche...I love my Porsche

Willravel

I think we can all agree, be us Mac addicts or PC fiends, that Porsches are awesome.

boink

I hope so B^)

Plaid13

What they dont seem to mention is the price diffrence. Nothin like forking out all that extra money for the nice fancy mac that... dosnt do anything the pc cant do. Or the fact that to upgrade a mac you have to buy your overpriced upgrades from mac alone. no compeition to lower the prices for hardware like on the pc. Owning a mac lost its advantages when windows became stable.

Personaly i think apple should just give up and put a end to its computer line and stop convincing people to spend all that money on them. And they should focus on the other electronics they make. Ipod for instance.

Willravel

It's not 2001 anymore.
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shoot...26_dt0600.html
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shoot...15_lt1500.html
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shoot...24_lt2800.html
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shoot...26_dt2000.html

snicka

My main problem with these commercials is the unadulterated smugness. Negative advertising has always bothered me and these commercials just tweak my nipples with their holier-than-thou attitude and implication that your choice of operating system reflects your intelligence. Apple should be able to show thier strengths without having to show the competitions weaknesses, especially when they make up those weaknesses or blow them out of proportion. Their entire campaign, from the switch commercials on, seems to be trying to shame Windows users into believing that they are morons for using Windows and to choose the "right" OS. I avoid OS holy wars whenever I can because I honestly don't care, I use windows because I have never had any of the evil problems that Apple says I have and I enjoy building my own computers. I just don't like commercials that actively insult me.

boink

amen to that.

Somniferous

The commercials are great in the fact that they do there job. Like them or not, at least you remember them.

As far as the PC vs Mac thing, I have no idea why people take it so seriously. I use both Macs and Windows for various things and like them equally. My preference tends to go towards Mac mainly because IMHO they run high end audio programs better (Granted windows can run these programs as well, but less tweaking is needed on Mac). For everyday use I tend to use windows mainly because it seems the internet runs a tad bit faster and the machine is in my bedroom.

Both OSes have uses, and whenever a Windows person bashes Mac I ask them if they have tried OS X at all. More often than not, most negitive feelings towards mac came from childhood experiences or using and outdated OS. All I ask before someone makes and opinion one way or the other is to try both.

catback

I'm offended that you believe that the companies in the commerical have some preconceived notion about my intelligence level that they exploiting in their commercials. In a perfect world you'd be able to show strengths without showing weakness' and vice-versa but we don't live in a perfect world, we live in the real world where the lack of weakness is inheritantly a strength. With that companies aren't gonna advertise things they share in common with competitors, as a selling point (car makers aren't gonna advertise that their cars have 4 wheels or a steering wheel).

snicka

I find it odd that you would be offended that I think a company thinks people are stupid, unless you are secretly Steve Jobs. You aren't are you? well... are you?

Actually you rarely see negative advertising from car companies. They usually show how pretty thier car is, how well built, how much room, how fast, etc. without really resorting to "if you own a dodge you really should sell it and buy a pontiac because those things are death traps, you will die if you drive one."

Willravel

He can't be Steve Jobs....I'm Steve Jobs!!

I don't see any threads about how Pepsi commercials assert that Coke drinkers are bland or stupid (we're not, we're distinguished). This is about Mac hatred. It's been obvious from the get go.

biznatch

Maybe people are gonna hate me for bringing back a discussion that's months old, but I dislike the ads for adding to that attitude a lot of (but not all) Mac owners have. "My computer just works," or similar stuff said in a smug voice, implying that my Windows machine doesn't work.
My windows PC is 6 years old and still works, runs HL2, Counter Strike: Source, and other demanding applications. Yes, I have reinstalled the OS once or twice, but that was because of a hard drive failure

My wife's family is pro-mac, and apple. They say that their computers "just work", as well, but the only one that works here is an ibook G4.
Other than that one, they have 2 PowerBook G4s, one of them overheats like crazy, the other one's battery actually swelled up to the point that the space bar wasn't working and there was a big swollen area visible on the bottom of it.
Mac computers have their problems, too. I wouldn't dislike the "mac crowd" if they didn't have that attitude that goes with it. Macs are just another PC, with a different OS and a focus on design, and I respect that (though it's not for me). But it's the smugness of their customer base that thoroughly annoys me.

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Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

Willravel

I've never seen a Mac crash. I've heard Windows people say that they've seen it, but I use 3 different Macs a day, over the course of maybe 10-12 hours a day and I've never seen it. I've had my eMac for 4 years. Not once has it crashed or frozen. One time I had to force quit a third party application, but that's it. I've never seen a Mac overheat. I've never seen a Mac even wear out after many years of use.

I've been using Macs since the late 80s. I've had 5 Macs, personally. I'd say I've had as much experience using them as anyone, ever.

YaWhateva

My MacBook Pro crashes occasionally. I get kernel panics if I am doing too many things at once (like running Quicktime and Safari at the same time ). I think it has a lot to do with Safari not being that great of a browser. My Mac also has heat problems but that is a well known problem with the first generation Macbook Pros. I still like my Mac but it's far from the perfect machine that it is portrayed to be.

I even went to a Mac store and got Safari to crash by opening like 5 browser tabs. I did it in front of a salesperson and they couldn't explain to my why it just didn't work. The iPhone also has crash problems when running Safari.

I wish there was a better browser for the Mac, I think most troubles while browsing come from that. Firefox and Opera are far too clunky and slow on the Mac to use, in my opinion. The funny thing is, I have over 10 tabs open right now and I am listening to iTunes and have a word processor open right now in the 6 year old PC I am using and there aren't any problems whatsoever. This would cause massive kernal panics on my laptop.

Are there any other browsers for Mac that I should look into that aren't Firefox or Opera? (sorry if this is too much of a threadjack.) Or I might have to try reinstalling OSX like was suggested to me on the official Apple troubleshooting forums. That's funny, I thought with Macs we weren't supposed to have to reinstall the OS like with one of those laughable PC's.

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“If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly

"This is my United States of Whateva!"

Willravel

Safari 3 full version comes out soon. That might be your best bet, but your problem could be with hardware. I'd take it to a Mac specializing store instead of an Apple store. MacPros is the best.

YaWhateva

thanks!

__________________
“If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly

"This is my United States of Whateva!"

Redlemon

Have you tried Camino? I haven't (I'm a Firefox guy), but...
Some people say it's smoother than Firefox on Mac.

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.