Rekna

While I find these commercials quite funny and consider them a brilliant marketing strategy I have to wonder how apple can get away with being so misleading. For example in 1 commercial the PC tapes a camera to his head and said he is getting a camera and the mac says he already has one built in. Many PC laptops already have one built in, it is a matter of personal preference in a PC you have more choices as to what features you want. In another commercial the PC has a medical gown on and says he is getting an upgrade for Vista. He implies that all computers will need an upgrade to run Vista. This obviously isn't true in addition what the commercial fails to mention is when Apple releases a new OS (not an upgrade) they don't support any old hardware.... Furthermore apple implies PC stands for windows which it clearly does not. PC stands for personal computer which can run all kinds of OS's, a couple which I would venture to say are better than OSX and more secure.

So what do you think of this marketing strategy? In many countries this type of advertising is illegal. Do you think Apple is being misleading to its customers?

Daval

I personally like the Ads, I think they are well done. Anything said in an Ad has to be taken with a grain of salt.

__________________
"It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it."
Winston Churchill

Willravel

Commercials are by nature misleading.
Mac did it first and it came with all the software you need to run it as soon as you plug it in. Yes, eventually Windows and PCs are able to catch up to (copy) Mac, but it's fine to suggest that PCs and Windows are lagging behind. It's the truth.
Many computers will need an upgrade to run vista, as it requires more ram and processing power than XP. The implication is that one PC represented by the guy on the left needs an upgrade, not necessarily all PCs.

Unfortunately, your remak about Mac OSX not supporting older hardware isn't true. They sill have upgrades for the PowerPC processors along with the newer Intels.

Most PCs use a Windows operating system, so the connection really isn't out there.
Nope. They are innovators, and they will continue to do so.

Jinn

Yes, the commercials are incredibly misleading and patently false.

Then again, I severely doubt that Paris Hilton eats Carls Jr regularly, especially after she washes her car in a tiny swimsuit. That commercial was designed to sell a product, and marketers know they can use all manner of mistruths and outright lies until someone sues them for it.

The reason they're safe is that no company owns the term "PC", so no company can claim direct financial damage for the lies. Apple technically sells a "Personal Computer" themselves.

It might have the Macintosh Operating System installed, but it's still a "Personal Computer." It's a clever play on words, because Macintosh marketers know that the tech-unsavvy and less-educated markets link "Microsoft Windows" with "Personal Computer" despite the fact that Linux, Windows, AND MAC OS run on Personal Computers - PCs.

There's an counter-example for every one of their PC's supposed 'downfalls' that either pre-dates Macintosh or does it better, but that doesn't make it any less of a genius marketing campaign.

They're not aiming for the technologically savvy, because that market already chose the appropriate Operating System for themselves. They're aiming at the niche markets; old people and young people, artists and teachers. They've always been a niche computer distributor (less than 5% of computers today use a Mac OS), but I applaud them for doing well at selling to their market.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

catback

What he said...The commericals are just exploiting common beliefs not facts

WillRavel - Sure my 7 year old computer may fit into the needs an upgrade to run vista category but my 7 year old mac needs the same to run the latest Mac OS, Apple really isn't saying how their better (because they really aren't) but instead exploiting on the ideas that people have of apple being easier (which is supposedly supposed to be better).

Willravel

I doubt anyone could make the argument that Mac OS X isn't easier than Windows XP or Vista. Easier is a lot better for a lot of people, as not everyone out there wants a computer to tinker with....of course you can tinker with a Mac like you would with any other computer if you want. The Mac Pro can be expanded to 3 TB of HD space (more if you're willing to customize), 16 GB of RAM, two 3.0 GHz dual core processors, the FX 4500 video card with 512 MB, multiple optical drives, blue tooth, airport (wireless), and a load of others.

Jinn

Sure I could. Where do you want me to start?

FTP? Active Directory? Networking? Device Drivers?

Simplicity is in the eye of the beholder, and there are a lot of Administrative tasks that are much more complicated on Mac OSX.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Willravel

FTP: Fetch is the easiest file transfer service out there, much simpler than programs like SmartFTP.
Active Directory: http://www.apple.com/itpro/articles/adintegration/ nuff said
Networking: How about plug and play? Hooking up a Mac to anything, whether it be another computer, LAN, internet, etc. involves less steps and doesn't go wrong. I've never been able to set up a simple network on a Windows run computer without problems.
Device Drivers: Seriously? Mac comes with most drivers already installed. Windows machines do not.

Rekna

Server admins definitely could Apple servers have been plagued with bugs, hardware failures and many other problems. The techs in my department were all huge mac fans 2 years ago. So much that when we ordered new file servers they got Apple servers. Now they are on the phone with tech support almost weekly. Now they complain a bunch about how much they dislike macs and how bad their tech support is.

filtherton

I would argue from personal experience that windows xp is "easier" than mac osx.

absorbentishe

I just saw two commercials I hadn't seen before. I think the commercials are very funny, not enough to make me want to change to mac though.

Dilbert1234567

Get back in line and buy what you are told.

if you've grown up PC, a PC will be easier, if you've grown up Mac, a Mac will be easier, if your never used a computer before, a Mac is NOT easier, which ever system your friends kids, grandkids use will be easier.

__________________
Donate Blood!

"Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

Redjake

I'm not even going to argue about the Mac vs. PC debate, but this comment sums up the entire pages of thread that might ensue.


Also: you can build a much more powerful PC with the same amount of dollars than you could a Mac. You just need to know how to put it together and troubleshoot any device problems. You pay for synergy and aesthetics with Macintosh computers.

__________________
Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

Willravel

You'd have to include the cost of theoretical labor in that total for the built computer. How much would it cost to have a tech put in ram, upgrade processor and hd, etc?

It's like saying that Volkswagen is cheaper than Audi because I can put in a turbo myself. Not everyone can or wants to tinker.

Jinn

As someone who is a salaried, professional Software Analyst, testing computer software for defects, security concerns and usability, I can say that there is minimal difference in acceptance difficulty for users on a Mac and users on a Windows PC.

Most of the differences are application specific rather than OS specific, and depend entirely on the quality of development for that particular application.

As a part-time web developer, I can also say that I use Photoshop CS2, Imageready CS2, Dreamweaver MX 2004 interchangeably between the OSes and see no reason to declare either at a disadvantage. The availablity of Firefox and Safari and their similarities make standards-based development easy and ideal.

As a student, I can also say that word processing, Internet research and presentation software works identically across both Operating Systems.

As a Computer Science student, I can say that creating platform independent software, as well as using the latest IDEs is much more efficient, less time-consuming and much higher quality when I use software available for Windows.

Finally, as a gamer, I can say that I cannot playthe more than 100 gaming software titles that I own on a Macintosh operating system. Even were it supported on the OS or distributed as a Universal binary, the hardware I need would be much more expensive in a Macintosh than it would be in a home-built PC running a Windows or Linux OS.

It has nothing to do with usability, but of practicality. I have used some very poor software designed for a Macintosh OS, and I have used some very poor software designed for a Windows OS.

However, if I were concerned about creating software that the majority of the market could use, I would develop it for a Windows machine. If I were concerned about being able to play the latest games, I would use a Windows machine. If I were conered about being able to customize my computer, I would use a Windows or Linux machine. If I were concerned about a budget, and wanted the highest power/cost ratio, I would built a PC utilizing Windows or Linux. If I were concerned about desktop publishing, web developing or media creation, I would use either, interchangeably.

The fact of the matter is that the majority still needs the former, not the latter, and Macintosh will remain an inferior (by market share) and niche-marketed computer.

The majority of my work is performed on a PC, but I often work in labs which have a Macintosh and a PC on a two-port switcbox; I can choose either, and I typically choose the Windows PC.

In short, commercials that highlight imagined differences between the two pander mostly to fear, rather than truth. I have yet to see an example of a task that was dramatically harder when using a Windows-based PC than when using a Macintosh computer.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Embic

I dont think the labor cost would effect the over price any and is so small it could be considered irrelevant. Most computer shops that i go to will change your processor, mount it, and install the ram for free because it is such an easy task and takes less then 5 min to do. Most places ive seen charge usually around $50/hr for labour, and installing most of these parts takes no where near that time. I believe the store i frequent charges a flat rate, $60 to assemble a system for you. Even then most people have a friend or know someone who "knows" computer and will do it for free or a small fee.

I also like the new commertials, way better then the stupid "switch" adds i think mostly because i like Justin Long as an actor and think he's funny, not because i like apple(which i dont).

Redjake

Exactly! For each his own. If you know PCs, buy a PC. If you know Macs, buy a Mac. Educated PC owners can put together an entire PC in less than 30 minutes. Putting in RAM, upgrading the processor, and adding hard drives can be done in 5 minutes or less.

__________________
Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

docbungle

I find the commercials slightly humorous but also quite pompous. Sort of like most Mac users I know personally. Not Macs themselves, mind you, but Mac users. That I know personally.

The content of the commercials is a joke, of course, but that doesn't stop me from seeing how well-done they are. This is marketing at its best.

Dell also had a pretty good marketing campaign for its laptops just before Christmas last year. It was a bit more honest than the current Mac commercials, as they didn't imply that Dell was the only company to make laptops with the abilities advertised, as Apple seems to be implying in their current ads.

__________________
Bad Luck City

Halx

"I'm a Mac"

"And I'm a PC"

"PC, what are you doing?"

"I'm playing that great new game that just came out."

"...damn."

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

jorgelito

Meh, to each their own. I find that Mac users come in two camps. Die-hard fans who are fairly creative and computer savvy, to idiot-savants like me who like the user-friendly plug n' play aspect of Macs.

I currently have a Dell (worst customer service ever) desktop and a Mac laptop (best customer service). I've reinstalled Windows XP 37 times in the past 5 years due to os complications etc. I have never had to reinstall my Mac OS ever. It is stable, and easy to use.

I like my PC because of the games (of course), but I prefer the usability of my Mac. I also feel that Mac applications are "better". Even head to head with Microsoft - i.e. - MS Office is much better on my Mac than on my PC. Same company but the apps are better on the Mac OS. I have no idea why. But it just seems like Apple takes more care to put out solid products while Microsoft is sloppy, careless. Almost everything is a "beta" or needs "bug-fixes".

Willravel

Wait, aren't you an Unreal superstar? Unreal was released for Mac OSX and Windows. I just played it a few minutes ago. And it didn't lag. And I pwned.

cyrnel

I find users can be more compatible with one or another platform. It doesn't necessarily follow the "artistic rebel" stereotype often attributed to Mac owners, but that can play a part. Some swithchers have a sort of post traumatic stress disorder from problems on one platform and just need a change. I usually see this going from PC to Mac, but it's a two-way street. Other users just have a better support community in one or the other world. For most non-computer-professionals/hobbyists, that's usually the best reason to switch in either direction.

Easier? Depends on the job and what's installed. My own experience says there's a bit more consistency in the Mac world if you don't stray far from the Apple brand, largely due to the single-vendor integration already mentioned. That can be good or bad depending on how much you want to make these things a hobby. The vast landscape of Windows products tends to complicate every decision. That's good if you're into it, but I run into customers daily who just want the damn things to work. It's discouraging to them when they leave for a month and don't know how to answer the 30 "please update me" dialogs that now litter their screens. Both platforms share this complexity problem but Mac is a bit better at being an appliance.

The religion/pomp/complex of any user is a separate factor. Not much different from nationalism, it's usually based on too little experience with "them" and not a little frustration or fear. That never helps understand the strengths & weaknesses of each. I take exception to anyone with years of experience applying their own preference to another user's needs unless they'll end up as the support community for that user. My own experiences over too many years has almost nothing to do with what any particular user should choose, though it may help me to help them decide.

Finally, about the "PC" complaints way up above: recall that IBM co-opted that term with their PC back in '81. Lots of us were offended. IBM was the new kid on the block and we'd used the term generically for years. Such is life. Though its use can depend on context, in platform discussions it is shorthand for the wintel world. I have a tough time believing anyone posting in this forum hasn't already been through plenty of "PC vs. Mac" discussions. Pick a better target. Like, hasn't the average PC guru moved beyond the 80's, button-down, IBM geek, stereotype? God, I hope I don't look like that.

__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Halx

And 7 years later, you're still playing it, waiting for the next decent game released on a Mac.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

cyrnel

COUGH!bootcampCHOKE!!

Sorry, must have had something caught in my throat.

__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

The_Jazz

I'll let you IT professionals and gamers sort out the PC vs. Mac debate because frankly I'm not even remotely qualified to offer an opinion. However, given that I do watch TV on a fairly regular basis, I do want to point out that computer or car commercials don't have the long-reaching effect that drug commercials have. Since the FDA legalized those about 5 years ago, the inflationary growth curve for prescription drug prices has turned up quite a bit. The drug companies stopped relying on doctors to push their meds and went directly to the consumer to get them to ask for drugs BY NAME. These name-brand drugs rarely have generic equivalents, so the profit margin on these adds is astronomical.

I'll let you get back to your regularly scheduled smack-talk now as long as you remember that Levitra can give you a happier, healthier sex life.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Willravel

Like World of Warcraft (plus Burning Crusade)? Or The Sims 2? Age of Empires 3? Doom 3? Everquest? Halo? Lego Star Wars? Mac Payne? Medal of Honor? Star Wars Battlefront (the best console game ever, inho)?

Also, now that Mac is Intel run, won't it be easier to play PC games on Macs? Edit: Oh, duh, Bootcamp. Ty, Cyrnel.

Yes, some developers are still stuck in the 90s, only releasing games on consoles, Windows or both, but huge companies like Blizzard have been releasing games for both Mac and PC for a long time. I remember playing Starcraft back in 1998 on my Mac and I still enjoy games, like Unreal 2004, on my Mac.

Unreal 2007 is going to be on Mac, too.

Halx

There's more to gaming than the best sellers. Either way, you better LOVE the games you get, 'cause there aren't nearly enough.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Jinn

The number of games for Mac can be counted with -undred or maybe -ousand.. Windows PC? At least in -illions..

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Willravel

Boootcamp.

Embic

The games will still run way better on a pc due to the lack of hardware for the mac. you get 3 choices for a video card, low end (7300), mid range high end (1900xt), and mid range high end workstation card (4500 fx quatro). if mac supported all of nvidia and ati's cards it might be a different story.

Willravel

The FX 4500 with 512 MB isn't anything to sneeze at.

Embic

i agree, its just not a gaming card, i would think apple would ditch the ati card and use the nvidia 8800gtx and use it in sli like they do with the 7300. i would think a mac pro with a pair of 8800gtx's would give a compairable pc gaming machine a run for its money. i would think it would be cheaper to, doesnt it cost like and extra $1600 to add the fx 4500 to a mac pro? a pair of8800gtx would be a little cheaper assuming it would cost the same as the pc version.

Manic_Skafe

Bill Gates On Mac Ads: I Don't Even Get It

I couldn't agree more - while the ads are stylish they certainly are lies.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

cyrnel

It's computer partisanship. Just preaching to the choir.

Both sides pick their targets, real or imagined. Get them together so the factual errors go away and people begin to lose their comfy religion.

__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Lasereth

I don't like the commercials because they're misleading, but you can't really bash them because like will said all commercials are out to sell.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Halx

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: Pure genius!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...006031,00.html

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Willravel

Ironically, Charlie Brooker's PC crashed twice while he was writing that very article for the Guardian, and the offices of the Guardian are humming with the sounds of Macs, only very few PCs. Not good at office stuff, eh?

He uses far outdated complains like the old 'Mac's only have a one click mouse', hmmm, wel my Mighty Mouse, which is an apple product that comes with all Mac computers, has a right click, 360 degree scroll, and side buttons. The poor guy probably hasn't used a Mac in at least 10 years. So why are people reading an article written by a man willing to damn a computer that has completely changed over the last 10 years without using one?

If Macs are so horrible, then why does Windows continue to copy Mac?

KnifeMissile

One thing that I've noticed about the ads is that they have recently been much more concilliatory than they were, before. The ads used to be very aggressive, implying that PCs were useless and that Macs were better in every way. Now, you'll see them implying that PCs have their niche and that everyday people who have everyday (creative) needs should get a Mac. Has anyone else noticed this? Where did this change in attitude come from?

YaWhateva

ok seriously, I own a macbook pro and a desktop pc. They are two completely different things. The laptop is nice but OS X will never, ever replace windows. In fact I am typing this in Bootcamp. My "technically" inferior PC also runs games way better than this macbook pro does in bootcamp. Mac's are great for their purpose, being tools for people who do not care to understand/learn a Windows machine. So many Apple elitists have these ridiculous misconceptions about Windows. My copy of XP on this laptop is 10x more stable than OS X on the same machine. And wireless in OS X is a joke. On the same machine I can connect to a wireless network that's right next to me with a perfect connection in XP and in OS X I get one bar. That's ridiculous.

Also, I could have spent half the cost of this $2500 laptop and got a PC laptop with better specs and paid at least $700 less. Mac's are all about aesthetics. End of story. Apple's tech support is also really not great. Not that I've ever had to deal with Dell or anything like that since I build all my Window's machines myself.

Just so you know, there were laptops that came with cameras integrated in them long before the Macbook Pro came around (Mac's first integrated camera).

Just so you know, a lot of things that Apple claims to have done first were done first by others.

My biggest pet peeve with Macs though is the complete and utter wrong propaganda that Mac fans try to spread about their software and Windows software. These commercials are very accurate in displaying that.

*Edit*
Also, I wanted to add that just in case anyone wants to bring up the fact that Macs don't get viruses, there is a specific reason for that, and it has nothing to do with OS X's security. The simple fact is that nobody wants to make viruses for Mac's because frankly not enough people use them for it to be a big deal. So nobody even bothers.

__________________
“If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly

"This is my United States of Whateva!"

Halx

will, saying "a mac can do that too" is just like saying a Honda Accord can hit 180mph. Sure, probably can.. with a few modifications.

Besides, the points about technology defining your personality were pretty funny. You gotta admit.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]