Hockey: Minnesota Wild and the Trap - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

TheShadow · 11-12-2003, 12:01 AM

After watching my team [Vancouver Canucks] lose to the trap tonight, I thought I'd just say something about how this style is ruining hockey.

While it's not just the Wild who play trap, they are the most visible case. The average team plays open hockey for a good 50 -55 minutes of the game, and at this point, when either behind or ahead, they'll go into a trap-like mode to preserve the lead, or an all-out attack, followed by the pulling of the goalie to make up a goal. This is exactly what the Wild aren't doing. They just sit around and wait for mistakes by the other team. Hockey was made to entertain, but Jacques Lemaire has decided to be a cunt rag and play for the points. I saw [on the television] a person in one of the seats alseep. This is going to destroy hockey, since AHL teams can pull this oiff, and take on NHL teams [Like the Wild].

It just pisses me off SO much, it isn't even funny. Ever wonder why people don't get 200 points in a season anymore? Other than the butterfly [style] and large pads used by goalies, a large part of it is thanks to the boring, lame and REALLY annoying trap/defensive style played by teams like the Wild.

Thats all I guess....

Spartak · 11-12-2003, 01:22 AM

Imo, if you can't beat the trap you deserve to lose to the trap. It's a perfectly valid tactic, but the only people who bitch about it are usually the ones on the receiving end of it, oh and the fans ofcourse. But teams don't play for the fans, they play to win (argueable, yes).

And how will the NHL get rid of the trap exactly ? Ban it ? Don't see how, it's a perfectly legitimate tactic.

Although I agree, the pads on the goalies are getting too big, its like you got a freakin' Zeppelin in goal.

Grondar · 11-12-2003, 09:25 AM

There is a nice article in The Hockey News this week regarding giving coaches the option of a powerplay or penalty shot on 5 on 5 infractions.

The article also covers the means of speeding up the game, mainly expanding the neutral zone.

Defense wins hockey games though, and coaches care primarily about winning, and not TV ratings, so the trap and other methods will likely remain in place, despite the outcry from the fans for a faster and more exciting game.

dylanmarsh · 11-12-2003, 09:46 AM

Well, in today's hockey world, if a team loses every game in overtime, they still would make the playoffs (see last year's playoff teams). Overtime losses are a joke, as is the Wild. Too many teams, too many players that should be in the AHL or IHL, and too many fans that just dont give a shit anymore.

absorbentishe · 11-12-2003, 09:54 AM

I don't know about all that now. The level of play overall is great. I've watched hockey since I was about 5, and I love it the way it is now, lower scoring, harder hitting. The trap forces the other team to be on their best, all the time. More passes, less shots. I think the gams is slower, but if you can beat a team that traps, you should win the Stanley cup.

docbungle · 11-12-2003, 04:19 PM

The Wild are not a joke. That statement is a joke, though. Everyone used to complain about Jersey when their defence was hardcore, but the fact is, other teams were just upset because Jersey beat the crap out of them.

Not all teams are the offensive powerhouses you would like them to be.

Teams play to their strengths, not their weaknesses. The NFL Baltimore Ravens are a good example of this, also. You do what you have to do to win.

TheShadow · 11-12-2003, 06:13 PM

Well, with the exception of Gaborik, there aren't any players mentioning on the Wild... they're all just junk players who resort to playing trap to win.

It's horrible to see a player like Gaborik stuck on trap team. It's ruining his potential - If he stays with Minnesota, I don't think we'll ever see him at his best. He needs offensive hockey to thrive. Oh, and, I'm not complaining because I lost - my team is at the top of league - 1 loss is nothing big - I'm just thinking that fans have paid to see an entertaining game, whether or not their team wins or loses [winning is better, but it isn't everything].

Soggybagel · 11-12-2003, 08:55 PM

Are you shitting me? You are insulting them due to the "Junk" factor of them. Perhaps they were never in a system that worked for them, and in that case never fully developed into a cohesive team. Its not just the Trap that allowed the Wild to make it to the Western Conference Finals last year.

I think you are complaining a tad bit about them losing too! I agree though that fundamentally hockey needs to get going some and open it up some more. I don't think the trap has to leave though. Maybe I'm old fashioned (or just dumb) but I think hockey is just as entertaining now as far as I can remember, which mind you isn't that long. The game has changed though. I don't think Gaborik is really ruining his potential by being on MN. For example, last year he netted 30 goals. This is by no means a lot but he slumped at the bookend of the year, and it was not a result of the trap. Had he kept up with early pace from the beginning 1/3 he could have easily ended with 50-65 goals.

You know why people don't get 200 points anymore? You mentioned a couple and really the goalies are a huge reason! They are bigger, faster, stronger, and better coached. THis is a huge reason why points are down. Also all players are a lot bigger and tougher too. Its harder to just skate into the offensive zone. I think a reason that is overlooked is the clutch/grab style of D that is around now. Fundamentally some things have to change but I don't think the trap is the problem.

One last thing. They do wait for other teams to make a mistake but I disagree with the idea that they will sit back on their ass and wait around. The Wild can have just as high scoring games as any other team in the league...and as you said with "junk" players, so they don't have the benefit of an allstar team like Colorado who should really be lighting everyone up.

docbungle · 11-12-2003, 09:13 PM

What Soggybagel said.

TheShadow · 11-12-2003, 10:56 PM

I think I should have labelled this thread the general degredation of hockey.

I'm not bitching aobut losing - in fact, my team destroyed the Wild [4-0 for a while, though the Wild got 3 goals in later on]. Despite the victory, the game play was stuffy (yes, like a cold). I'm just tired of seeing a team ruin hockey with a cramped style of play - it isn't just me, people on forums everywhere are complaining about this and about refing.

Refing is another huge issue - biased refs [MAGOO MAGOO MAGOO against Vancouver] ruin the game - Mini had 7 men on the ice, and it wasn't called. Jason King was shoved to the ice from a stick-shove to his back by Mitchell [Normally a double-minor for what he did]. And what gets me most is that large players like Bertuzzi are getting screwed over - they can be hooked, crosschecked, held and the refs will ignore it, simply becuase they are big. It kept Minnesota alive last game.... If they don't fix these two things up, Hockey, despite the fact that some people here appreciate ?? trap, is going to lose viewership. A 1-0 Game sucks. Period.

Oh, and about Gaborik, sure he scored 30, but it's obvious that any player will score more on an offensively minded team than on a defensive, sit-tight team like Minni.

Excuse the lack of structure, flow and grammatical "correctness" of this post, but I have a huge essay tomorrow, so I'm in a bit of rush .

Soggybagel · 11-12-2003, 11:45 PM

I don't get your rebuttal to Gaborik scoring 30. Not insulting or anything, I just want some clarification on what you mean.

1-0 games don't nessacarily suck but I agree refinement is key. Especially the grabbing and essentially the interference of movement. But please don't go bitching about referee's though okay. What about the apparent no call that your D man Bryan Allen had. He slashed Henrik Zetterberg and broke his leg but no penalty was called. Everyone gets away with plenty of no calls and alleged bias conspiracy's abound. Bottom line, refs need work as usual but nothing game stopping. The 1-0 game has plenty of exciting moments and if its tension filled what does it matter if 10 goals are scored or 1 is scored. The Trap that MN employs can slow down the game but I don't see it taking it to the shitter as you see it. I'm just wondering though, would you like the Red Line gone? I've actually been pondering this...dropping the 2 line pass. I think it could speed things up, especially if you have a good goalie that can get that puck out and catch a team on a line change, but it could actually slow teh game down. Just move the trap backwards and your in the same story?!

BTW, don't mean any hard feelings. Been a while since I had a good hockey discussion so I am getting kind of emotional

dragon2fire · 11-13-2003, 03:08 AM

1 goal games are so boring

my 2 cents

Nikilidstrom · 11-13-2003, 06:41 PM

Listen, the trap is a great tactic, which is easily beaten with speed through the neutral zone. Just like the LW lock is easily beaten by the give and go. Defense is defense, no matter teh tactic, and defense is a part of hockey. If you want more scoring, find a different sport.

As far as the refs go, yes they pretty much suck donkey balls league wide, so we can't just pick on the one ref that picks on your team. i could argue that Magoo is much more biased against Detroit than he is against the Canucks, but I can't really prove it, so it is silly to bitch about him individually. The problem is no ref is held accountable for his calls, bias or no bias. No ref is in danger of loosing his job or even a fine for blowing calls or breaking up fights that lead to injuries later on because they didnt let the players settle it right then and there. Because of the wonders of pay cable, i get a chance to watch every game played in a year, and in nearly everyone of them, I see refs make the most ignrant calls known to man. Piss poor refing is a league wide problem, any reformation of the league should start there.

Soggybagel · 11-13-2003, 07:04 PM

YEAH! What Nik said!!!

dylanmarsh · 11-13-2003, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nikilidstrom

Piss poor refing is a league wide problem, any reformation of the league should start there.

Wasn't the two-ref system suppose to take care of this problem? HAHA. Refereeing has always been an issue with the league since I can remember. I still get a warm fuzzy feeling thinking about Jim Schoefield bitching out Don Koharski after a 1988 playoff game. With your evil Mick McGeough's, there are pretty decent refs out there like Kerry Fraser.

I still maintain that the league really fucked itself over by expanding too much and allowing teams to move out of Canada. Do we really need two teams in Florida? Or a team in Ohio? Say what you want about Carolina and Atlanta, but those two shouldn't be around, either. While we're at it, dump the f-ing Sharks. There, there are five teams that the league wouldn't miss financially or otherwise. Plus, if you divide their players around the league, the talent pool and excitement goes up around the league. Jesus, if I have to watch Chris Gratton, Scott Lachance, Manny Fernandez or Freddie Brathwaite play another game I'm gonna snap.

Nikilidstrom · 11-14-2003, 05:32 PM

The only problem with the expansion arguement is that alot of those expansion teams are doing well attendance wise. Nashville, Columbus, Tampa Bay are all packed on most nights. But for some reason, teams like Vancouver and Chicago have trouble getting there home games broadcast on local TV, much less fill arenas. I agree that redistributing the talent to fewer teams would be a good thing though. You definitely won't see a sweet team like the 80's Oilers under the current team numbers. But it would also limit the number of really talented Russians and Europeans able to come here and play. You wouldn't have Datsyuks and Zetterbergs coming over in the 3rd or 4th rounds of drafts, because there would be no room for them in the league.

And no ref, especially Kerry Fraser, is excluded from the list of donkey ball suckers.

TheShadow · 11-14-2003, 06:50 PM

Actually, fyi, Vancouver sells out at every game, and is easily viewable on TV, with goodquality tv cameras [Clear, crisp], unlike some arenas in which it looks like it's the nineties again [quality of the cameras].... It's simply that the East ignores the West.

bond007 · 11-14-2003, 07:08 PM

the NHL needs to do something (maybe get rid of the red line?) to open up the game.

Soggybagel · 11-15-2003, 07:36 AM

Red line opening would probably help some. Shadowz, correct me if I'm wrong but in Canada hockey is pretty easily viewed right? I totally agree with you on the tv stuff and I'd assume any canadian hockey team is practically an instant sellout. Have you noticed how bad footage is from New York?? Horrible.

dylanmarsh · 11-15-2003, 10:39 AM

Getting rid of the red line would not be the solution to opening up the game. Leave the red line, but get rid of the "two-line pass" bullshit. Sure, some guys like Lemieux or Kariya would try to camp out at center ice for a lead pass and a break away, but wouldn't you rather see that than a whistle and stoppage in play? The two-line pass is outdated and it hampers the excitement of the sport.

If you leave the red line, then you would still have the races to puck to prevent icing.

This seems like an interesting concept: http://www.darrenbarefoot.com/archives/000022.html

Soggybagel · 11-15-2003, 05:38 PM

Dylan...you do realize (maybe I'm misinformed) but getting rid of the Red line gets rid of two line passing.

dylanmarsh · 11-15-2003, 08:16 PM

C'mon, now. I totally realize that getting rid of the red line eliminates two-line passing. My point was if we get rid of the red line, we also eliminate icing -- one of the more exciting aspects of hockey.

Nikilidstrom · 11-16-2003, 12:46 AM

If I had to watch that European hockey bullshit everyday, with no red line and automatic icing and constant end to end rushes, I think I would kill myself. The Olympics was probably the most boring hockey I have ever seen in my life.

Fly · 11-16-2003, 06:25 AM

trap hockey fuckin sucks.

boring as all hell.

give me a wide open game anyday.......waaaaaay more exciting.

i don't wanna fall asleep watchin a hockey game....that's what baseball is for.

Nikilidstrom · 11-16-2003, 11:19 AM

then go watch basketball, plenty of worthless points there.

bond007 · 11-17-2003, 08:04 PM

dylanmarsh, thanks for the link!

here's a summary of what it proposed...

Former GM and player Bobby Smith recommends a minor but original rule change that would help the lack of goals and wide-open play in today's NHL: Make the red and blue lines wider (i.e., make 'em each 6ft. wide -- currently, they're 1ft. wide).

This would artificially add several feet to the neutral zone and the offensive zone, giving attackers slightly more room and defenders farther to skate. Smith also suggests adjusting the offside rule so that other players can enter the zone when the puck carrier puts the puck onto, not over, the blue line.

stickyrice · 11-17-2003, 11:56 PM

vancouver canucks fan

I love their style of hockey because it's always fast-paced, exciting and you see a lot of nice goals.

But if they won the Stanley Cup by trapping, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

btw if they wanna open up the game, get rid of the red line. And get rid of touch icing. Would you try to win a race that goes straight into a wall? Almost as dumb as the crease rule they inforced a few years ago.

goppers · 11-18-2003, 09:49 AM

Hello there folks. I'll start by saying that im pretty sure that everyone else that has posted in this thread knows more about hockey than I do.

I moved to boston about five years ago. it took two years to become addicted to everything red sox, then one more to really be hooked on the pats. But, no matter how hard i try I can't get into either the celtics or the bruins. Of those two teams the Bruins clearly seem like the "better" team (and by better i mean if you put them on a baseball diamond and force them to do pushups the bruins would be able to do more). But I just can't get into the bruins. I've tried. It could be the sport I guess, but I don't have anything against hockey. Everything I hear about the bruins is that they are a strong, fast, skilled team, but it seems like the trap is used pretty often and quality of the games suffer. I could be wrong. I've only watched parts of maybe....6 or so games this season. In general it seems the bruins are fun against the west, and not as much fun against teams lik nj. I'm sure thats an over generalization, but that's my impression.

Again, I really could be wrong that the trap is the problem with the excitement of the game. But there is a problem. I'd like to be a fan, but it just isn't going to happen. I listen to the radio here; from the way Dale talks it sounds like the Bruins don't draw more than 12k on the average night.

okeeee im done. shrug shrug.

4 men on the ice! forwards cant skate backwards through the ice.

dylanmarsh · 11-18-2003, 02:14 PM

Goppers --- well, the first problem with the C's and B's is that damn Fleet Center. I grew up in Southie and going to the old Garden was so much better than luxury seating, etc. That's the first problem embracing the Bruins.

The second is the partly due to the trap but mainly due to the clutching and grabbing; something Mario Lemieux left the sport because of. One would think that the league would try to crack down on this shit and give their stars some breathing room. Imagine how frustrating baseball would be to watch if Johnny Damon or Trot Nixon had to try to catch a ball while a 250 lb goon is on their back; it would suck. Although and extreme comparison, that's what's going on in hockey.

Hockey used to be a great sport to watch from start to finish, but lately I usually only dedicate myself to watch during the playoffs now.

Fly · 11-19-2003, 05:49 AM

no need to lose the center line.

lack of goals?????

come on......

vancouver and montreal in retro jerseys just cranked up nine goals last night.

5-4 for vancouver.

hitting was awsome.......wide open hockey.

the west has always been better than the east.

stickyrice · 11-19-2003, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyman
no need to lose the center line.

lack of goals?????

come on......

vancouver and montreal in retro jerseys just cranked up nine goals last night.

5-4 for vancouver.

hitting was awsome.......wide open hockey.

the west has always been better than the east.

Ha yeah that was a good game last night. And Zednik got owned too

Nikilidstrom · 11-19-2003, 01:00 PM

not that I'm a big Montreal or Zednik fan, or that it even has anything to do with this thread, but how is having 2 goals and a +1 for the night being owned? Because he took a couple of hits? What about the crusher he threw on Sopel? Christ, I wish I could get owned like that in my bar league. I'd never have to pay for another beer again.

stickyrice · 11-19-2003, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nikilidstrom
not that I'm a big Montreal or Zednik fan, or that it even has anything to do with this thread, but how is having 2 goals and a +1 for the night being owned? Because he took a couple of hits? What about the crusher he threw on Sopel? Christ, I wish I could get owned like that in my bar league. I'd never have to pay for another beer again.

Owned in the sense that he got knocked 3 times pretty damn good. You don't see a lot of hits like that in one game.

kudos to the 2 goals though. they were nice.

and the Sopel hit wasn't even his doing. Sopel was the dumb one that turned back into the puck and got pushed.

splck · 11-21-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nikilidstrom
If I had to watch that European hockey bullshit everyday, with no red line and automatic icing and constant end to end rushes, I think I would kill myself. The Olympics was probably the most boring hockey I have ever seen in my life.

You're joking right? You don't like end to end rushes? You'd rather watch a choked red line? WOW you and I think diferently.
The Western games are so much faster and more exiting.

Nikilidstrom · 11-22-2003, 10:34 AM

Ive said it before, and I'll say it again, if I wanted to watch end to end rushes, I'd go watch basketball. The only thing hockey needs to open up the game, without adding endless coast-to-coasters, is to make the refs accountable for their shitty calls (or no calls). If you removed the cluching, grabbing, hooking, and interference from the game by actually calling those penalties, and not just ignore them on a whim, flow would return to the game, and offenses would explode. Its all just proper use of the existing rules.

splck · 11-22-2003, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nikilidstrom
Ive said it before, and I'll say it again, if I wanted to watch end to end rushes, I'd go watch basketball. The only thing hockey needs to open up the game, without adding endless coast-to-coasters, is to make the refs accountable for their shitty calls (or no calls). If you removed the cluching, grabbing, hooking, and interference from the game by actually calling those penalties, and not just ignore them on a whim, flow would return to the game, and offenses would explode. Its all just proper use of the existing rules.

You can't compare end to end rushes between hockey and basketball. Besides...basketball sucks

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the trap sucks, it makes for boring hockey.
I agree that the refing is the shits.

11-12-2003, 12:01 AM	#1 (permalink)
TheShadow Crazy Location: Vancouver, Canada	Hockey: Minnesota Wild and the Trap After watching my team [Vancouver Canucks] lose to the trap tonight, I thought I'd just say something about how this style is ruining hockey. While it's not just the Wild who play trap, they are the most visible case. The average team plays open hockey for a good 50 -55 minutes of the game, and at this point, when either behind or ahead, they'll go into a trap-like mode to preserve the lead, or an all-out attack, followed by the pulling of the goalie to make up a goal. This is exactly what the Wild aren't doing. They just sit around and wait for mistakes by the other team. Hockey was made to entertain, but Jacques Lemaire has decided to be a cunt rag and play for the points. I saw [on the television] a person in one of the seats alseep. This is going to destroy hockey, since AHL teams can pull this oiff, and take on NHL teams [Like the Wild]. It just pisses me off SO much, it isn't even funny. Ever wonder why people don't get 200 points in a season anymore? Other than the butterfly [style] and large pads used by goalies, a large part of it is thanks to the boring, lame and REALLY annoying trap/defensive style played by teams like the Wild. Thats all I guess.... __________________ You know that song that goes like...

11-12-2003, 01:22 AM	#2 (permalink)
Spartak Bang bang Location: New Zealand	Imo, if you can't beat the trap you deserve to lose to the trap. It's a perfectly valid tactic, but the only people who bitch about it are usually the ones on the receiving end of it, oh and the fans ofcourse. But teams don't play for the fans, they play to win (argueable, yes). And how will the NHL get rid of the trap exactly ? Ban it ? Don't see how, it's a perfectly legitimate tactic. Although I agree, the pads on the goalies are getting too big, its like you got a freakin' Zeppelin in goal. __________________ I can read your mind... looking at you... I can read your mind...

11-12-2003, 09:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
Grondar Junkie Location: Pa, USA	There is a nice article in The Hockey News this week regarding giving coaches the option of a powerplay or penalty shot on 5 on 5 infractions. The article also covers the means of speeding up the game, mainly expanding the neutral zone. Defense wins hockey games though, and coaches care primarily about winning, and not TV ratings, so the trap and other methods will likely remain in place, despite the outcry from the fans for a faster and more exciting game. __________________ "Yes, I rather like this God fellow. He's very theatrical, you know, a pestilence here, a plague there. Omnipotence. Gotta get me some of that." -Stewie

11-12-2003, 04:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	The Wild are not a joke. That statement is a joke, though. Everyone used to complain about Jersey when their defence was hardcore, but the fact is, other teams were just upset because Jersey beat the crap out of them. Not all teams are the offensive powerhouses you would like them to be. Teams play to their strengths, not their weaknesses. The NFL Baltimore Ravens are a good example of this, also. You do what you have to do to win. __________________ Bad Luck City

11-12-2003, 06:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
TheShadow Crazy Location: Vancouver, Canada	Well, with the exception of Gaborik, there aren't any players mentioning on the Wild... they're all just junk players who resort to playing trap to win. It's horrible to see a player like Gaborik stuck on trap team. It's ruining his potential - If he stays with Minnesota, I don't think we'll ever see him at his best. He needs offensive hockey to thrive. Oh, and, I'm not complaining because I lost - my team is at the top of league - 1 loss is nothing big - I'm just thinking that fans have paid to see an entertaining game, whether or not their team wins or loses [winning is better, but it isn't everything]. __________________ You know that song that goes like...

11-12-2003, 09:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
dylanmarsh Sleepy Head	Well, in today's hockey world, if a team loses every game in overtime, they still would make the playoffs (see last year's playoff teams). Overtime losses are a joke, as is the Wild. Too many teams, too many players that should be in the AHL or IHL, and too many fans that just dont give a shit anymore.

11-12-2003, 09:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
absorbentishe Boy am I horny today Location: T O L E D O, Toledo!!	I don't know about all that now. The level of play overall is great. I've watched hockey since I was about 5, and I love it the way it is now, lower scoring, harder hitting. The trap forces the other team to be on their best, all the time. More passes, less shots. I think the gams is slower, but if you can beat a team that traps, you should win the Stanley cup.

11-12-2003, 08:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
Soggybagel Psycho Location: Lovely City #1	Are you shitting me? You are insulting them due to the "Junk" factor of them. Perhaps they were never in a system that worked for them, and in that case never fully developed into a cohesive team. Its not just the Trap that allowed the Wild to make it to the Western Conference Finals last year. I think you are complaining a tad bit about them losing too! I agree though that fundamentally hockey needs to get going some and open it up some more. I don't think the trap has to leave though. Maybe I'm old fashioned (or just dumb) but I think hockey is just as entertaining now as far as I can remember, which mind you isn't that long. The game has changed though. I don't think Gaborik is really ruining his potential by being on MN. For example, last year he netted 30 goals. This is by no means a lot but he slumped at the bookend of the year, and it was not a result of the trap. Had he kept up with early pace from the beginning 1/3 he could have easily ended with 50-65 goals. You know why people don't get 200 points anymore? You mentioned a couple and really the goalies are a huge reason! They are bigger, faster, stronger, and better coached. THis is a huge reason why points are down. Also all players are a lot bigger and tougher too. Its harder to just skate into the offensive zone. I think a reason that is overlooked is the clutch/grab style of D that is around now. Fundamentally some things have to change but I don't think the trap is the problem. One last thing. They do wait for other teams to make a mistake but I disagree with the idea that they will sit back on their ass and wait around. The Wild can have just as high scoring games as any other team in the league...and as you said with "junk" players, so they don't have the benefit of an allstar team like Colorado who should really be lighting everyone up. Last edited by Soggybagel; 11-12-2003 at 09:02 PM..

11-12-2003, 09:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	What Soggybagel said. __________________ Bad Luck City

11-12-2003, 10:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
TheShadow Crazy Location: Vancouver, Canada	I think I should have labelled this thread the general degredation of hockey. I'm not bitching aobut losing - in fact, my team destroyed the Wild [4-0 for a while, though the Wild got 3 goals in later on]. Despite the victory, the game play was stuffy (yes, like a cold). I'm just tired of seeing a team ruin hockey with a cramped style of play - it isn't just me, people on forums everywhere are complaining about this and about refing. Refing is another huge issue - biased refs [MAGOO MAGOO MAGOO against Vancouver] ruin the game - Mini had 7 men on the ice, and it wasn't called. Jason King was shoved to the ice from a stick-shove to his back by Mitchell [Normally a double-minor for what he did]. And what gets me most is that large players like Bertuzzi are getting screwed over - they can be hooked, crosschecked, held and the refs will ignore it, simply becuase they are big. It kept Minnesota alive last game.... If they don't fix these two things up, Hockey, despite the fact that some people here appreciate ?? trap, is going to lose viewership. A 1-0 Game sucks. Period. Oh, and about Gaborik, sure he scored 30, but it's obvious that any player will score more on an offensively minded team than on a defensive, sit-tight team like Minni. Excuse the lack of structure, flow and grammatical "correctness" of this post, but I have a huge essay tomorrow, so I'm in a bit of rush . __________________ You know that song that goes like... Last edited by Shadowz; 11-12-2003 at 10:58 PM..

11-12-2003, 11:45 PM	#11 (permalink)
Soggybagel Psycho Location: Lovely City #1	I don't get your rebuttal to Gaborik scoring 30. Not insulting or anything, I just want some clarification on what you mean. 1-0 games don't nessacarily suck but I agree refinement is key. Especially the grabbing and essentially the interference of movement. But please don't go bitching about referee's though okay. What about the apparent no call that your D man Bryan Allen had. He slashed Henrik Zetterberg and broke his leg but no penalty was called. Everyone gets away with plenty of no calls and alleged bias conspiracy's abound. Bottom line, refs need work as usual but nothing game stopping. The 1-0 game has plenty of exciting moments and if its tension filled what does it matter if 10 goals are scored or 1 is scored. The Trap that MN employs can slow down the game but I don't see it taking it to the shitter as you see it. I'm just wondering though, would you like the Red Line gone? I've actually been pondering this...dropping the 2 line pass. I think it could speed things up, especially if you have a good goalie that can get that puck out and catch a team on a line change, but it could actually slow teh game down. Just move the trap backwards and your in the same story?! BTW, don't mean any hard feelings. Been a while since I had a good hockey discussion so I am getting kind of emotional Last edited by Soggybagel; 11-12-2003 at 11:49 PM..

11-13-2003, 03:08 AM	#12 (permalink)
dragon2fire Junkie	1 goal games are so boring my 2 cents

11-13-2003, 06:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
Nikilidstrom Stick it in your five hole! Location: Michigan, USA	Listen, the trap is a great tactic, which is easily beaten with speed through the neutral zone. Just like the LW lock is easily beaten by the give and go. Defense is defense, no matter teh tactic, and defense is a part of hockey. If you want more scoring, find a different sport. As far as the refs go, yes they pretty much suck donkey balls league wide, so we can't just pick on the one ref that picks on your team. i could argue that Magoo is much more biased against Detroit than he is against the Canucks, but I can't really prove it, so it is silly to bitch about him individually. The problem is no ref is held accountable for his calls, bias or no bias. No ref is in danger of loosing his job or even a fine for blowing calls or breaking up fights that lead to injuries later on because they didnt let the players settle it right then and there. Because of the wonders of pay cable, i get a chance to watch every game played in a year, and in nearly everyone of them, I see refs make the most ignrant calls known to man. Piss poor refing is a league wide problem, any reformation of the league should start there.

11-13-2003, 07:04 PM	#14 (permalink)
Soggybagel Psycho Location: Lovely City #1	YEAH! What Nik said!!!

11-14-2003, 05:32 PM	#16 (permalink)
Nikilidstrom Stick it in your five hole! Location: Michigan, USA	The only problem with the expansion arguement is that alot of those expansion teams are doing well attendance wise. Nashville, Columbus, Tampa Bay are all packed on most nights. But for some reason, teams like Vancouver and Chicago have trouble getting there home games broadcast on local TV, much less fill arenas. I agree that redistributing the talent to fewer teams would be a good thing though. You definitely won't see a sweet team like the 80's Oilers under the current team numbers. But it would also limit the number of really talented Russians and Europeans able to come here and play. You wouldn't have Datsyuks and Zetterbergs coming over in the 3rd or 4th rounds of drafts, because there would be no room for them in the league. And no ref, especially Kerry Fraser, is excluded from the list of donkey ball suckers.

11-14-2003, 06:50 PM	#17 (permalink)
TheShadow Crazy Location: Vancouver, Canada	Actually, fyi, Vancouver sells out at every game, and is easily viewable on TV, with goodquality tv cameras [Clear, crisp], unlike some arenas in which it looks like it's the nineties again [quality of the cameras].... It's simply that the East ignores the West. __________________ You know that song that goes like... Last edited by Shadowz; 11-14-2003 at 06:52 PM..

11-14-2003, 07:08 PM	#18 (permalink)
bond007 Junkie Location: too far from Texas	the NHL needs to do something (maybe get rid of the red line?) to open up the game.

11-15-2003, 07:36 AM	#19 (permalink)
Soggybagel Psycho Location: Lovely City #1	Red line opening would probably help some. Shadowz, correct me if I'm wrong but in Canada hockey is pretty easily viewed right? I totally agree with you on the tv stuff and I'd assume any canadian hockey team is practically an instant sellout. Have you noticed how bad footage is from New York?? Horrible.

11-15-2003, 10:39 AM	#20 (permalink)
dylanmarsh Sleepy Head	Getting rid of the red line would not be the solution to opening up the game. Leave the red line, but get rid of the "two-line pass" bullshit. Sure, some guys like Lemieux or Kariya would try to camp out at center ice for a lead pass and a break away, but wouldn't you rather see that than a whistle and stoppage in play? The two-line pass is outdated and it hampers the excitement of the sport. If you leave the red line, then you would still have the races to puck to prevent icing. This seems like an interesting concept: http://www.darrenbarefoot.com/archives/000022.html Last edited by dylanmarsh; 11-15-2003 at 10:41 AM..

11-15-2003, 05:38 PM	#21 (permalink)
Soggybagel Psycho Location: Lovely City #1	Dylan...you do realize (maybe I'm misinformed) but getting rid of the Red line gets rid of two line passing.

11-15-2003, 08:16 PM	#22 (permalink)
dylanmarsh Sleepy Head	C'mon, now. I totally realize that getting rid of the red line eliminates two-line passing. My point was if we get rid of the red line, we also eliminate icing -- one of the more exciting aspects of hockey.

11-16-2003, 12:46 AM	#23 (permalink)
Nikilidstrom Stick it in your five hole! Location: Michigan, USA	If I had to watch that European hockey bullshit everyday, with no red line and automatic icing and constant end to end rushes, I think I would kill myself. The Olympics was probably the most boring hockey I have ever seen in my life.

11-16-2003, 06:25 AM	#24 (permalink)
Fly see the links to my music? Location: Beautiful British Columbia	trap hockey fuckin sucks. boring as all hell. give me a wide open game anyday.......waaaaaay more exciting. i don't wanna fall asleep watchin a hockey game....that's what baseball is for. __________________ BASTARD SterlingStudios

11-16-2003, 11:19 AM	#25 (permalink)
Nikilidstrom Stick it in your five hole! Location: Michigan, USA	then go watch basketball, plenty of worthless points there.

11-17-2003, 08:04 PM	#26 (permalink)
bond007 Junkie Location: too far from Texas	dylanmarsh, thanks for the link! here's a summary of what it proposed... Former GM and player Bobby Smith recommends a minor but original rule change that would help the lack of goals and wide-open play in today's NHL: Make the red and blue lines wider (i.e., make 'em each 6ft. wide -- currently, they're 1ft. wide). This would artificially add several feet to the neutral zone and the offensive zone, giving attackers slightly more room and defenders farther to skate. Smith also suggests adjusting the offside rule so that other players can enter the zone when the puck carrier puts the puck onto, not over, the blue line.

11-17-2003, 11:56 PM	#27 (permalink)
stickyrice Crazy	vancouver canucks fan I love their style of hockey because it's always fast-paced, exciting and you see a lot of nice goals. But if they won the Stanley Cup by trapping, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. btw if they wanna open up the game, get rid of the red line. And get rid of touch icing. Would you try to win a race that goes straight into a wall? Almost as dumb as the crease rule they inforced a few years ago. __________________ Can't think of anything to say....

11-18-2003, 09:49 AM	#28 (permalink)
goppers Tilted	Hello there folks. I'll start by saying that im pretty sure that everyone else that has posted in this thread knows more about hockey than I do. I moved to boston about five years ago. it took two years to become addicted to everything red sox, then one more to really be hooked on the pats. But, no matter how hard i try I can't get into either the celtics or the bruins. Of those two teams the Bruins clearly seem like the "better" team (and by better i mean if you put them on a baseball diamond and force them to do pushups the bruins would be able to do more). But I just can't get into the bruins. I've tried. It could be the sport I guess, but I don't have anything against hockey. Everything I hear about the bruins is that they are a strong, fast, skilled team, but it seems like the trap is used pretty often and quality of the games suffer. I could be wrong. I've only watched parts of maybe....6 or so games this season. In general it seems the bruins are fun against the west, and not as much fun against teams lik nj. I'm sure thats an over generalization, but that's my impression. Again, I really could be wrong that the trap is the problem with the excitement of the game. But there is a problem. I'd like to be a fan, but it just isn't going to happen. I listen to the radio here; from the way Dale talks it sounds like the Bruins don't draw more than 12k on the average night. okeeee im done. shrug shrug. 4 men on the ice! forwards cant skate backwards through the ice.

11-18-2003, 02:14 PM	#29 (permalink)
dylanmarsh Sleepy Head	Goppers --- well, the first problem with the C's and B's is that damn Fleet Center. I grew up in Southie and going to the old Garden was so much better than luxury seating, etc. That's the first problem embracing the Bruins. The second is the partly due to the trap but mainly due to the clutching and grabbing; something Mario Lemieux left the sport because of. One would think that the league would try to crack down on this shit and give their stars some breathing room. Imagine how frustrating baseball would be to watch if Johnny Damon or Trot Nixon had to try to catch a ball while a 250 lb goon is on their back; it would suck. Although and extreme comparison, that's what's going on in hockey. Hockey used to be a great sport to watch from start to finish, but lately I usually only dedicate myself to watch during the playoffs now.

11-19-2003, 05:49 AM	#30 (permalink)
Fly see the links to my music? Location: Beautiful British Columbia	no need to lose the center line. lack of goals????? come on...... vancouver and montreal in retro jerseys just cranked up nine goals last night. 5-4 for vancouver. hitting was awsome.......wide open hockey. the west has always been better than the east. __________________ BASTARD SterlingStudios

11-19-2003, 01:00 PM	#32 (permalink)
Nikilidstrom Stick it in your five hole! Location: Michigan, USA	not that I'm a big Montreal or Zednik fan, or that it even has anything to do with this thread, but how is having 2 goals and a +1 for the night being owned? Because he took a couple of hits? What about the crusher he threw on Sopel? Christ, I wish I could get owned like that in my bar league. I'd never have to pay for another beer again.

11-22-2003, 10:34 AM	#35 (permalink)
Nikilidstrom Stick it in your five hole! Location: Michigan, USA	Ive said it before, and I'll say it again, if I wanted to watch end to end rushes, I'd go watch basketball. The only thing hockey needs to open up the game, without adding endless coast-to-coasters, is to make the refs accountable for their shitty calls (or no calls). If you removed the cluching, grabbing, hooking, and interference from the game by actually calling those penalties, and not just ignore them on a whim, flow would return to the game, and offenses would explode. Its all just proper use of the existing rules.