blktour

So back to the title; BOXING VS. MMA.

to ME i would say MMA. mainly because MMA is exciting and boxing is not. not how it use to be anyways.

its all in our own perspective.

I think SF is trying way too hard to have us BELIEVE his way is the right way.

not the case. SF will always see boxing as a Manly sport and thats great. just SOME opinions are better left to be just that.

the reason why MMA is better (IMHO) is because its something new. and its short, and it has alot more energy. they do about 3 rounds and in boxing its a long 12 rounds.

also boxing bores me. And growing up the definition of MANLY was not boxing.

it was things like: don't do girl things. take care of the important females in your life. Love your mother. It is ok to cry sometimes. NO WHINING. take care of home. be the bigger person. choose your battles. admit when you are wrong.

highthief

Ah, the Alan Alda generation!

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

silent_jay

..............

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

blktour

I mean from when someone dies or something. not over little things, like losing a job or something.

not the "sympathetic male" haha.

Strange Famous

In my opinion Mercer took a dive. He threw the fight and collected his dough, and got paid for giving all these MMA boys to cheer about how great their sport is because one of their champions could beat a retired boxer.

And as for being manly, to be perfectly honest I suspect that Mercer probably COULD have beaten or at least pushed Slice hard if he had chosen too... in fact, due to his manliness he did not resort to choke holds (illegal in MMA I believe? and you yourself who quoted this fight at me as an example of MMA's superiority are now 100% admitting that Slice should have been disqualified for an illegal move).

Mercer chose to limit his fighting technique to the gentlemanly arts of boxing. In this way, sure - he ensured that he could not beat Slice and he took a dive - but his reputation is less tarnished by the view that he fleeced the cage fighters for a few 100,000's for a minutes work; than if we had seen this former proud champion cavorting in the cage, kneeing his opponent, throttling him, and the other tactics used by Slice.

In short - if Mercer had fought in the same manner as Slice he would have probably beaten him due to his superior skill and strength and courage. Instead he chose to not lower himself to this.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

silent_jay

................................

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Strange Famous

So now we can add strangulation and throttling to the depths to which the MMA hooligans sink to in their unseemly brawls?

If Slice had 1/2 the skill of Ray Mercer he would have used it to box. Unless he prefers to fight in a fringe sport, and brawl bare knuckle in car parks with off duty policeman for $2000 a time?

I guess this is what you ask us to swallow? That Kimbo, despite having so much more skill than a WBO heavyweight champion, ignores a sport that would offer him million dollar purses if he could fight and championship level, and fights bare knuckle on the streets for internet video's because it is so much "tougher"

While you make your point, I fear that the laughter of the general public will be shattering.

Mercer held a piece of a title that has a history of 200 years (at least) and to be honest more. To compare a common street fighter to him is nothing short of crazed.

Now of course, that we have proved the cowardice and lack of ability or class of Slice, despite him being the top MMA fighter in previous arguments, now the MMA fans say he is a joke and that Silva or Matt Hughes are the best MMA brawlers. Once again the goalposts shift after I knock them over with sound arguments!

I guess now we can add that MMA fights are even more awful than I imagined, instead of being a contest on who can break his opponents wrist first, we now see that is allowed to strangle the other brawler until point of loss of consciousness.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

silent_jay

....................

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Strange Famous

Let me simplify things and make only one point at a time, in the hope that I can get a response from the many MMA fans.

1 - You have stated that Timbo Slice is more skillful than Ray Mercer, who was good enough to stretch Lennox Lewis, and hold a recognised heavyweight title.

2 - For WHAT REASON does Timbo Slice prefer to brawl on the streets for the entertainment of internet fans with Boston police, if he is a better fighter than a world champion of a sport like boxing?

If he was fighting in MMA and earning good purses... fine. But he wasnt. He was an illegal bare knuckle fighter: cos he wasnt good enough to box to any kind of level. Presumably his own real talent was his viciousness and readiness to strike at the groin or strangle an opponent.

But please, tell me why I am wrong. Tell me WHY it is better to fight in high rise car parks in front of illegal gamblers and webcams; rather than to compete in a globally recognised sport that that is historically and currently defined as holding the ultimate championshop of manliness?

And at the risk of asking a second question in one post... if you now openly retract Timbo Slice as the champion of MMA, who do you now say is the best fighter of this circus? I am not prepared to research and destory every lout who ever competed in this thing... tell me now who you call the best. Hughes, Silva, Pierre, Gracie, whoever it is... give me your champion, and I will research him.... I do not doubt that he will be found wanting under severe analysis.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

silent_jay

....................

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Strange Famous

Who is the greatest MMA champion?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

silent_jay

................

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Strange Famous

I have answered fully every question put to me by MMA fans.

You claim to love this sport, but you cannot even say who you consider to be its champion?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

silent_jay

...................

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Strange Famous

Who is the lbs for lbs best MMA fighter?

Can this be a difficult question for you?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

silent_jay

Just trying to get down what you wanted, you've bounced around so much in this thread I wanted to be sure.

The best is hard to decide, whatever fighter I give is only my opinion which I don't try to pawn off as fact.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Strange Famous

Well, this is another black mark against MMA.

Even its biggest fan in TFP cannot name his view of the best fight.

Perhaps he agrees, after all, that in the scramble to strangle your opponent, there isnt a lot of skill needed

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

silent_jay

..............

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Strange Famous

At last then

Quentin Jackon is the greatest MMA fighter.

This is your view.

I will look at his youtube's and probably destroy him tomorrow

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

silent_jay

.....................

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

something red

You haven't addressed a single thing from my posts, nor have you addressed the post by Doc Bungle that I reposted for you. These are all relevant to the thread, and bring into question your distorted view of the things discussed here.

I see no benefit in speaking to someone who doesn't even acknowledge the viewpoints of other members of the conversation.

From your involvement, the thread has spiraled into - well, meaninglessness. You don't seem to care for MMA too much. However, instead of simply stating such and moving on, you've managed to offend quite a few people with your snide remarks and in the process make yourself out to be a bit of a blowhard.

It's just sports, after all. There is no need for your snittyness.

Since you don't seem to want to engage in an actual conversation, I suppose there is nothing else to do but let the thread die.

ubertuber

At his peak, I would have said Randy Couture. His comeback fight was inspirational.

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Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

silent_jay

..........................

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

ubertuber

Maybe, and I'll concede that Couture has since lost. However, I have to express my admiration for that man and that fight.

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Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

silent_jay

.................

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

highthief

Guys, don't you know that Randy Couture is just a wrestler and that being the collegiate champion and being on the Olympic team means nothing and takes no skill - there is no doubt that if anyone of us trained for more than 7 hours we'd have a 50-50 shot of beating his ass.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

silent_jay

.....................

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Strange Famous

I have answered and demolished every point put to me, including Doc Bungle's argument.

In short, he claimed that far from being unmanly to hit a man who was on the ground, some MMA fighters were so cowardly that rather than stand up and fight like a man they would delibaretly fall to the ground and feign that they are hurt, to lure the opponent down to try and finish them - at which point they would try to throttle or damage the limbs of that fighter.

I understood his point very well.

I then stated that the objection was not specifically against fighting on the floor (although as a sporting spectacle this is often laughable for the "Fan"), but that we - and I mean myself and the general public whom I speak for - are disgusted by the spectacle of someone who is KNOCKED DOWN and defenceless being pumelled.

So - as you can see, this argument has been completely resolved, as have all the others in my opinion.

But the MMA fans simply want to ignore the case, every time I demolish the points they make they seem somehow not to notice these posts.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

silent_jay

.......................

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Strange Famous

Do you want to suggest a new fighter then?

You kept refusing to answer who you thought was the best fighter in MMA, so I simply assumed that you were answering with the winner of your "Favourite fight"

If you want to pick another fighter then please feel free to.

The situation is this:

Kimbo Slice is quoted as a great MMA fighter.

I then analyse his video and prove that he is a cheat who has very limited skill, and I state that I myself could beat him with some training.

But THEN the MMA fans change the goalposts, and suddenly declare that Kimbo Slice isnt even any good.

So I say - fine... name me another fighter, I will scientifically analyse him, and will then use his an as example of MMA.

You are reluctant to do so, because I believe that you recognise my key assertions are absolutely correct - that the rulelessness of MMA make it very even, and matches unpredictable, because the lack of rules is such a huge leveller.

My feeling is that I am absolutely correct that you wanted to quote Quentin Jackson as the best fighter, I glanced at his fight with Silva (which is how I knew who won) and could see already that he couldnt punch his way out a sturdy paper bag with his wild and unrefined bolo punching technique. It might look flash, but an educated viewer can see that it is ineffective.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

highthief

Quiet, or the increasingly-Strange Famous will demolish you.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

silent_jay

........................

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Strange Famous

The video I watched had highlights of different fights, so I may have seen Rampage Jackson beating someone else cut into the fight against Silva.

It doesnt change in any way the point I am making.

I am waiting for you to nominate the best and most skilled MMA fighter so I can analyse him, as I mentioned I only glanced at the video with Jackson and Silva... my main point about Jackson lacking technique is still correct.

I have no desire at all to fight anyone in this thread.

I was prepared for people to make jokes when I stated that I could beat Timbo Slice (*IF I had 6 months training in wrestling - training at least an hour a day)... but it is simply my opinion.

He looks like a rough and tumble scrapper - but I believe his actions in the Mercer fight certainly showed a yellow streak that runs through him. He should have lost that fight by DQ of couse in any case... but my assessment if based on my analysis of that fight, and is genuine

I have NOT claimed I could beat Silva or Jackson precisely BECAUSE I have not yet completed a full analysis of their abilities.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

silent_jay

..........

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Strange Famous

my point is that the skills needed to compete in MMA are very limited.

I couldnt compete now, but - or any other average man - could with say 200 hours training.

The people who fight in MMA are mostly night club bouncers who learn a bit of martial arts and take it up... as I have already stated - if they were genuinely skillful enough they would box.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

silent_jay

.......................

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Not Right Now

He trained three months.

why so you can look it up on wikipedia?


no one thinks Kimbo Slice is a great MMA fighter.

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I only came to dance.

silent_jay

................

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Strange Famous

I will analyse their fights on youtube to make a judgment on if they are any good. I suspect what I will find will not be great - but I have an open mind. Perhaps I will be shown a fighter who does impress me?

And I doubt Mercer did much training... of course he had to hype the fight, but he just turned up to his minutes work, take a dive and get paid. Even then Slice almost blew it by throwing knee's to the groin which should have seen him be disqualified.

I guess the ref must have been in on the fix as well which is why he was not.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Not Right Now

Destroy? Ha.
He'll say that he is going to look up the fights but he'll copy and paste a wiki record, and probably not read anything else about the fighter.

Kimbo sucks.

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I only came to dance.