"boxing vs. mma" debate - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dlish · 10-27-2007, 04:37 AM

shauk,

the adrenalin in a street fight is different to the adrenalin in a boxing match. you dont shake uncontrollably in the ring.

its a more controlled environment in the ring, and your survival isnt in question (most times anyways). iguess the adrenalin is released in a constant flow rather than in one huge spurt.

would have loved to see the comedy show with ure friend though. would have made a great movie

Glory's Sun · 10-27-2007, 09:19 AM

I'm not saying that boxing isn't tough training and that they aren't fit, I'm just saying that I think MMA training is more difficult.

Muay Thai fighters are probably the most bad ass fighters out there and the most fit.

As far as behaving like an Englishman..wtf is up with that statement? I guess all the hooligans forget to be Englishmen eh?

filtherton · 10-27-2007, 09:23 AM

I think that by the "behaving like an englishman" comment he probably means that instead of kicking his opponent whilst down he would send a contingent of soldiers to occupy his opponent's land, cultivate a caustic sense of distrust and hatred between his opponent's family members whilst siphoning off all of his opponent's land's economic value.

Not Right Now · 10-27-2007, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Yes, violence is an element of boxing, but MMA is violence virtually unrestrained by rules, respect for your opponent, or any concept of conducting oneself as a gentleman.

Over 30 fouls, Stoppages for cuts, and the ability to say to the ref "I can't see" for abotu a minute of stoppage is not very unrestrained. Striking on the ground is inevitableand not all fighters finsih that way, BJ Penn and Anotnio Minotauro Noguiera can get you on the ground and finish you without ever throwing a punch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

huh. wonder why? Maybe because it's alot more taxing on the body to be tangled up struggling for position than just standing around throwing a punch or two every minute. Or.. the fact that in MMA it's actually against the rules to not engange or work.

Training in grappling is far mroe tiring. You are right. I used to box and am now learning muay thai. and I have no problem sparring four or five 5 minute rounds. But when I grapple with my wrestling and ju-jitsu buddies, I'm basically worn after one round. A lot more energy is wasted pushing people off of you or trying to hold someone down than people think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

boxing is far, far more taxing than that. The training is, at the highest levels, extreme - you punch, you move, you get hit.

Watch Sean Sherk and Fedor Emelianenko train and talk to me abotu taxing. The training for most is no different, some people parodize their triaing a bit more. Sparring is done in the same fashion but incorporates kicks and take-down defense as well. I've done both, and they are both not fun at all, but they are so worth it.

I'm personally a big fan of both sports and was ecstatic this year when Pavlik destroyed Taylor, because Boxing needs more fighters like him, not dancers who throw 3 punches a round. I cheered through the Gatti-Ward trilogy just like everyone else, and I was abhorred at the De La Hoya-Mayweather "fight to save boxing" just as everyone was.

The point is boxing doesn't need to be saved, it needs to be changed. Not the art, but the pollitics. The ranking system, bribes, dives, and multiple weight class championships are horrible for the sport.

MMA will be on that same level at some day, to think that it will not, would be out-right foolish. Dana White will become the Don King of MMA eventually, just like Tito Ortiz is already the Floyde Mayweather (speaking in terms of attitude of course).

Boxing is a martial art, and is used in MMA as well, Alessio Sakara a UFC 205er was a boxing champion in Italy, and now trains here in Miami with Boca Olivera. Fedor Emelianenko the #1 p4p fighter in the world trained in boxing as well. It is a tool which people need to utilize.

As far as respect goes, there are rivalries that will not be resolved ( course Tito Ortiz is involved in many of them). But for a real look at how the true athletes reslove their issues look at the last Rich Franklin v. Anderson Silva match. In rich's hometown, Silva was getting booed for destroying Rich a second time. Rich instantly grabbed his microphone and told the crowd not to boo him because he is an amazing warrior and an even better person. That to me impressed me more than anything.

The problem with MMA is not the sport itself (yet) the athletes. It's the casual fans. The one's who do only watch for violence, they do exist. People how know nothing about ju-jitsu, submission wrestling, sambo, judo, etc. The same people who boo fighters like Renzo Gracie, Sean Sherk, Andrei Arlovski, Yushin Okami, etc... and champion Chuck Liddell for refusal to taking the fight to the ground for a submission victory. I've met several fo them at my local UFC bars, they are the ones that boxing purists point out. The true fans respect damn-near all fighters and support the sport and anyone involved at all costs.

Given time, maybe the two will be able to co-exist. For now, however boxing feel threatened because people would rather spend 45 dollars an a UFC ppv thab a Boxing ppv. The purists begin the insults and the sheep follow. Prompting the MMA fans to fire back, and their sheep to follow as well. Aside from a select few, the athletes have a mutual respect for one another:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0MqGnBvl1YM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0MqGnBvl1YM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Strange Famous · 10-27-2007, 12:01 PM

I have been forced to watch a few "MMA" fights, and I admit that I have only seen a limited amount, but hardly any of the fights I saw featured anyone who could actually throw a clean punch.

Most of them did not seem to be actually know how to punch... the reason is clear, because in the rules of that game (ie - all out fighting bar a few exceptions like eye gouging) the most valuable tactis is to trip someone up, then bend a joint the wrong way so they have to submit. This is how nearly all the fights I saw ended, because it is the easiest way to win.

PLUS, anyone that CAN box, WOULD box because there is a lot of money and prestige for people who excel in it, while MMA is a minority "sport".

MMA is getting more popular for sure.

But go anywhere in the world, and say names like Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis... people know them. The same can hardly be said about the MMA brawlers.... they are less weel known that WWF wrestlers. It might have a loyal minority fan base, but it is not into popular culture.

So... this point is just about those who say that these MMA people are so much tougher than boxers. It is a different sport... it is simply a fight with a couple of things outlawed. There is no MMA champion today who could compete for a world title in boxing and last 6 rounds. I guarantee this. By the same standards, boxers arent wrestlers, and if they had to fight someone who just tripped them up and put them in an arm lock, they might find it hard too.

I personally prefer to watch the sweet science to a scrap with little skill other than the skill to inflict harm. Perhaps some people DO prefer the all out style of MMA. Some people prefer all the drama of WWF too....

There will NEVER be a Muhammad Ali of MMA.

In fact, there will never even be a Frank Bruno or Henry Cooper of MMA.

Telluride · 10-27-2007, 01:16 PM

Most boxing matches are boring. Most MMA matches are not.

Here endeth the debate.

Strange Famous · 10-27-2007, 01:26 PM

And some people watch TV because books are "boring"

Stating your subjective opinion of something is not the same thing as a statement of fact.

Telluride · 10-27-2007, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

PLUS, anyone that CAN box, WOULD box because there is a lot of money and prestige for people who excel in it, while MMA is a minority "sport".

Logical fallacy. Just because you aren't doing something doesn't mean you can't do it. And not everyone is in it for the money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

There will NEVER be a Muhammad Ali of MMA.

In fact, there will never even be a Frank Bruno or Henry Cooper of MMA.

And you know this...how? There are already MMA fighters who have had very successful careers and are/were considered among the greatest of all time.

I wouldn't be surprised if more people could name one of the UFC champs than one of the current heavyweight boxing champs.

docbungle · 10-27-2007, 04:21 PM

Other than Strange Famous not knowing what he is talking about, what is this thread about?

Of course a UFC fighter couldn't hang with a championship boxer in the boxing ring. But niether could a boxer hang with an mma fighter in the octagon. They are two different sports, and comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges.

Strange: just because you don't "get" something doesn't make it any less viable. UFC is THE fastest growing sport in the world right now. It is huge, and not remotely close to being a "minority sport," as you call it.

Just because you don't know about the rules doesn't mean they aren't there.

And once mma has been around, on television, for as long as boxing has, then your comparisons will make at least a little bit of sense.

Statements like: "There will never be a Muhammad of mma..." etc...etc...are meaningless, obviously. Especially coming from someone with such an obviously biased viewpoint. If you followed the sport even remotely, you'd know that it already has a few "Muhammedesqe" figures, who have dominated their divisions for long periods of time.

Not Right Now · 10-27-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

I have been forced to watch a few "MMA" fights, and I admit that I have only seen a limited amount, but hardly any of the fights I saw featured anyone who could actually throw a clean punch.

Check out Anderson Silva

highthief · 10-28-2007, 07:37 AM

Re response to "boxing is far more taxing than that":

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Right Now

Watch Sean Sherk and Fedor Emelianenko train and talk to me abotu taxing. The training for most is no different, some people parodize their triaing a bit more. Sparring is done in the same fashion but incorporates kicks and take-down defense as well. I've done both, and they are both not fun at all, but they are so worth it.

I wish people would read the context of the original comment. I never said that boxers train so much harder than MMA fighters, despite a few of the fat MMA fighters we've ALL seen.

The original comment was in response to someone saying boxing amounts to dancing around and throwing a punch every minute or two. I was telling that ignorant person that boxing and it's associated training is much harder than that.

Not Right Now · 10-28-2007, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

Re response to "boxing is far more taxing than that":

I wish people would read the context of the original comment. I never said that boxers train so much harder than MMA fighters, despite a few of the fat MMA fighters we've ALL seen.

The original comment was in response to someone saying boxing amounts to dancing around and throwing a punch every minute or two. I was telling that ignorant person that boxing and it's associated training is much harder than that.

My mistake.

Telluride · 10-28-2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Right Now

Check out Anderson Silva

And Spencer Fisher.

Strange Famous · 10-28-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telluride

Logical fallacy. Just because you aren't doing something doesn't mean you can't do it. And not everyone is in it for the money.

And you know this...how? There are already MMA fighters who have had very successful careers and are/were considered among the greatest of all time.

I wouldn't be surprised if more people could name one of the UFC champs than one of the current heavyweight boxing champs.

I cannot name any MMA fighters, and I would bet you that nobody who works at my company (70 employee's mostly telesales and admin, 50/50 male/female) could either.

That said, there might not be many of them who could name one of the heavyweight champions of the world... but most of them would have heard of Ricky Hatton (for example)

Telluride · 10-28-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

I cannot name any MMA fighters, and I would bet you that nobody who works at my company (70 employee's mostly telesales and admin, 50/50 male/female) could either.

That said, there might not be many of them who could name one of the heavyweight champions of the world... but most of them would have heard of Ricky Hatton (for example)

And this proves...what? I could also come up with a crowd of friends/associates who couldn't name any current, relevent boxers. But many of them have heard of Chuck Liddell or Randy Couture, for example.

Glory's Sun · 10-28-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

Re response to "boxing is far more taxing than that":

I wish people would read the context of the original comment. I never said that boxers train so much harder than MMA fighters, despite a few of the fat MMA fighters we've ALL seen.

The original comment was in response to someone saying boxing amounts to dancing around and throwing a punch every minute or two. I was telling that ignorant person that boxing and it's associated training is much harder than that.

Yes I'm the ignorant person here. I mean.. who would have guessed I was just using an over-exaggeration of the sport? Poeple aren't sarcastic. It's ok though.. I don't know what I'm talking about.. I just happen to have been involved in both sports.. and have several friends who train with top class talent on a daily basis and could be possibly in contract talks with UFC. No biggie.. I'm just an ignorant fuck

We all know that both sports require a heavy amount of training. We all know what boxing has become. With the exception of the Mexican circuit, I don't ever see passion in the boxing rings anymore. It's just simply do what you have to do to cash your check. I have found it so boring in the last 9-10 years it's pathetic. This is why I found MMA and one reason I find it inherently better. There seems to be more passion and desire in that sport.. I would much rather watch a sport that had passionate players than cry-babies who took a hit from a bad promoter..

Kewpie Dan · 10-28-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

I personally prefer to watch the sweet science to a scrap with little skill other than the skill to inflict harm. Perhaps some people DO prefer the all out style of MMA. Some people prefer all the drama of WWF too....

this sounds like a man who has never grappled before in his life.

there is so much technique in the ground game that you do not comprehend. just as much technique as there is in boxing.

now mma fighters have to contend with both. tell me there is no skill there.

how do you know wine is sweet unless you drink it. never say there is no skill in something you do not do.

as a wrestler i am personally offended that you would take my art (and grappling is an art) and trivialize it in such simple terms.

SF your homework for tonight is to find someone as big and as strong as you and try to trip them up and arm lock them while they are punching you. tell us what happens

Mojo_PeiPei · 10-29-2007, 09:16 PM

I think the one of the tightest shows on TV is Human Weapon on the History Channel.

Strange you for sure would learn so much by watching it. Whether it is the original MMA Greeco Pancrasion(sp) fighting all the way through Muy Thai in Thailand, or Krav Maga in Israel.

An assumed risk cannot by nature equate to an unfair blood bath as you atest. If I step into a cage with a tiger I am not going to hold it against him for clawing my throat, its natural. All the same stepping into the ring with a nin-jitsu guy he will dominate the fight on the ground. A Muy Thai guy will kick my leg and probably crush any future hopes of my MCL. But knowing that is part of the rules and doesn't make it dishonorable.

And I hate bringing it up again, but anyone who has been in an actual fight knows that any sense of honor goes out the window once you go into survival mode. Fighting some gabroni at the bar and making sure he cannot hurt you is night and day compared to taking someone to the mat in MMA.

******************************

Also the point of skill has been brought up...

Boxers do not harness or utilize much skill out side of a simple discipline. Bob, duck, weave... jab, hook, upper cut. They are phenominal athletes, endurance and muscles I am not belittling that. They are one dimensional, it is natural to throw fists.

MMA you can't just berserk because you will be completely unguarded and exposed lest you drop your opponent. MMA is a strategic sport, thats why they have to utilize such a vast array of disciplines.

**********************************

Also anybody who cares or likes this shit should watch Fight Science that was done by the National Geographic Channel, shit is ridiculous. And go figure that although boxing at its peak performance can delivers up to 1000 pounds of impact force it was out done by tae kwon do kicks, and most importantly the Muy Thai knee.

Plan9 · 10-30-2007, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

(his stuff here)

Excellent post, man. Very concise.

highthief · 10-31-2007, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

Yes I'm the ignorant person here. I mean.. who would have guessed I was just using an over-exaggeration of the sport? Poeple aren't sarcastic. It's ok though.. I don't know what I'm talking about.. I just happen to have been involved in both sports.. and have several friends who train with top class talent on a daily basis and could be possibly in contract talks with UFC. No biggie.. I'm just an ignorant fuck

When you make an overtly ignorant statement, don't get offended when people think you're ignorant. It's your own fault.

Not Right Now · 10-31-2007, 06:24 PM

Human Weapon is great.

silent_jay · 11-01-2007, 02:45 PM

Human Weapon is a sweet show, just watched the one on Krav Maga, that was my favourite one so far.

Strange Famous · 11-02-2007, 03:28 PM

MMA has a fringe following in the US.

It is not a world "sport"

Of course, I understand that some of you Americans dont see the second part, or dont really get the difference.

Muhammad Ali was not the most dominant as a boxer... he was one of the best, but not the best and lost to Norton and Frazier in his prime and was badly beaten by Foreman... the point is that there will never be an MMA brawler who has 1/10th of the impact on the culture of this world that Ali did.

The greatest boxer ever was probably Sugar Ray Robinson or Jack Johnson... both would - in an equal situation - whip any man in a ring, under any rules.

MMA is a "sport" for cowards. Only a coward, one who is not a full man, would attack a fallen opponent in anything less than a fight to the death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by docbungle

Other than Strange Famous not knowing what he is talking about, what is this thread about?

Of course a UFC fighter couldn't hang with a championship boxer in the boxing ring. But niether could a boxer hang with an mma fighter in the octagon. They are two different sports, and comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges.

Strange: just because you don't "get" something doesn't make it any less viable. UFC is THE fastest growing sport in the world right now. It is huge, and not remotely close to being a "minority sport," as you call it.

Just because you don't know about the rules doesn't mean they aren't there.

And once mma has been around, on television, for as long as boxing has, then your comparisons will make at least a little bit of sense.

Statements like: "There will never be a Muhammad of mma..." etc...etc...are meaningless, obviously. Especially coming from someone with such an obviously biased viewpoint. If you followed the sport even remotely, you'd know that it already has a few "Muhammedesqe" figures, who have dominated their divisions for long periods of time.

Lasereth · 11-02-2007, 03:47 PM

I like to watch MMA because I think to myself that these are the men who would be gladiators hundreds of years ago. These are the guys who would survive a war. These guys are the pinnacle of what the human body can do. They turn their bodies into weapons and they show what power can erupt from a biological being if trained properly. I'm jealous of what these fighters can do and I'm proud that there are human beings left on this planet who train in the art of fighting.

As for boxing, I don't know enough about it and haven't watched it enough to comment on it intelligently but holy cow MMA is more entertaining.

telekinetic · 11-02-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

MMA is a "sport" for cowards. Only a coward, one who is not a full man, would attack a fallen opponent in anything less than a fight to the death.

I'm not sure why you waste your 'breath'...By this point in the thread, all anyone hears when you post is "Blah Blah Blah I don't know anything about MMA"

The little bubble of willful ignorance you've wrapped yourself in notwithstanding, MMA is an established sport in the US and Japan, and is rapidly expanding in Euorpe. This fact is not up for debate.

Although, for added fun, let's play a quick game of 'Name that Logical Fallacy!' I'm leaning towards either strawman, or possibly appeal to tradition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

As for boxing, I don't know enough about it and haven't watched it enough to comment on it intelligently but holy cow MMA is more entertaining.

I am in the same boat in this area. Too bad our overseas boxing advocate does not exercise similar discretion.

Not Right Now · 11-03-2007, 05:27 AM

Sir, we get it. You don't like striking a downed opponent.

Plan9 · 11-03-2007, 05:42 AM

Oh, he'll get it when he's in a real fight, though.

Live and learn. And spend some time in the hospital.

Is a hard knock life out there.

/end GI Joe PSA

Strange Famous · 11-03-2007, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Oh, he'll get it when he's in a real fight, though.

Live and learn. And spend some time in the hospital.

Is a hard knock life out there.

/end GI Joe PSA

Are you still fantasing about fighting me? If I was brawling in self defence, by all means I might do anything - car keys in the face and then smack the elbow to the back of the head being my own feeling for a good tactic - but this is not a SPORT and it is not entertaining. It is a brawl.

If your whole argument is that MMA is much more like a street fight than boxing, by all means I agree - and people who enjoy street fights are welcome to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telluride

And this proves...what? I could also come up with a crowd of friends/associates who couldn't name any current, relevent boxers. But many of them have heard of Chuck Liddell or Randy Couture, for example.

Are you genuinely claiming you know a group of people who know who "Chuck Liddell" is, but have never heard of Oscar De La Hoya?

filtherton · 11-03-2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Are you genuinely claiming you know a group of people who know who "Chuck Liddell" is, but have never heard of Oscar De La Hoya?

Isn't he a rapper?

Strange Famous · 11-03-2007, 09:35 AM

I dont know who Chuck Liddell is, I presume some kind of wrestler or karate fighter who is a well known cage fighter.

Glory's Sun · 11-03-2007, 11:05 AM

Liddell can out punch any modern day boxer..

I don't get the whole "MMA is for cowards" argument.. wouldn't it stand to reason that if you were in a no-rules (which mma isn't obviously) that it would take more balls than getting into a ring where you can only use one skill set??

Strange Famous · 11-03-2007, 11:14 AM

If Liddell is a better boxer than any living boxer, why doesnt he - just say as a one off - fight for a world title? A title fight purse will be in the millions, more than he makes, or ever could make, in MMA Im sure... if he is such a well known figure he should only need 4 or 5 fights to get into title contention.

Once he has had a couple of fights and made 10 million dollars he can go back to MMA and be all hardcore or whatever. (and fight for 50,000 dollar purses again).

_

Perhaps he would... if he could box.

EDIT - apparently he is a light heavyweight. So he should go after Joe Calzaghe I guess, and give him a boxing lesson.

Not Right Now · 11-03-2007, 11:21 AM

Liddell Chalenged Tommy Morrisson to a fight.

Sean Sherk challenged Floyd Mayweather to a fight.

It's the boxers who haven't accepted yet.

Butterbean and Ray Mercer fight mma and get desrtoryed constantly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

If I was brawling in self defence, by all means I might do anything - car keys in the face and then smack the elbow to the back of the head being my own feeling for a good tactic...
?

So much for acting like an Englishman

Strange Famous · 11-03-2007, 11:47 AM

Ray Mercer is in his late 40's and Butterbean belongs in a circus.. what is the point of these observations?

Presumably next you'll tell me MMA is so far superior because Kurt Angle could beat Muhammad Ali since the Parkinson's set in?

Not Right Now · 11-03-2007, 12:17 PM

Randy Couture is in his late 40s and he is a world champion. Age is a number, no more no less. You forget that I used to box to, I'm just pointing out that the transition isn't as easy as you're making it out to be.

I respect Muhammad Ali as an athlete and as a boxer. the man was simply amazing, and the fact that you would make such a stupid comment even in jest or what I assume was an attempt at insulting my intelligence, makes me question your respect for the guy.

Some boxers do well in octagon, Alessio Sakara has a decent record, and was a championship boxer in Italy, the difference is, and he learned Ju Jitsu. If he were to step in the cage with his quick hands and great technique with no ground game, he would get creamed just like Ray Mercer does, only at half his age. As a result he trains here in Miami and has a Brown belt in Ju Jitsu. He also maintains that to survive in the sport, you can’t rely on just boxing or wrestling, you have to learn as much as you can.

ps, if you want to prove an mma fan, it would probably be better to use someone who has had a professional fight as an example, not a wrestler who has yet to debut in a second tier talent company.

Strange Famous · 11-03-2007, 12:58 PM

the fact that a middle aged man is capable of dominating MMA is hardly a good advert for it (anymore than George Foreman knocking out Michael Moorer was for boxing)

Not Right Now · 11-03-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

the fact that a middle aged man is capable of dominating MMA is hardly a good advert for it (anymore than George Foreman knocking out Michael Moorer was for boxing)

I'm not saying all middle-aged men are dominant. Ken Shamrock helped build the sport and got his ass handed to him the entire latter half of his career. Bernard Hopkins is still a champ in boxing as well, and still a great fighter. Age only affects you if you let it. It's only way it's not a good advert is if the middle-aged fighter doesn't fight on a remotely decent level. In Randy Coutures case, he's only gotten better, stronger, and more intelligent with age.

Strange Famous · 11-03-2007, 02:36 PM

I just looked up the guy who is gonna beat Joe Calzaghe properly on wiki

Wins 20
By knockout 13
By submission 1
Losses 5
Draws 0

14 stoppages in 25 fights is apparently all it takes in MMA to be a better puncher than any boxer out there... I assume MMA fighters must have MUCH heavier gloves, or maybe they mostly fight 4 rounds most of the time? Because that is a pretty poor record if this guy is the premier puncher in the whole sport.

As for the Randy guy... you say is is late 40's... thats a LOT different tearly 40's (ie Bernard Hopkins, who is 41/42?)

Not Right Now · 11-03-2007, 02:41 PM

I never said eh was in his late 40s he's 44. B-Hop is 43

B-Hop challenged Joe Calzaghe after beating Winky Wright.

As for Chuck Liddell I'd say a Wanderlei Silva or a Mauricio Shogun Rua have a betetr chance of beating a boxer using their Muay Thai. Chuck does betters with grapplers than against strikers, although the man throws bricks, but he is far from being the best striker in mma. Also what you fail to take into consideration, which can be excused since you ar enot a fan of the sport is this, a lot of Chuck Liddell's decision matches were in the eraly half of his career.
After that every single one of his wins was via KO.

Plan9 · 11-03-2007, 02:47 PM

*leans in thread like Spiderman*

Nope, I still wanna spar w/ StrangeFamous.

10-27-2007, 04:37 AM	#41 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	shauk, the adrenalin in a street fight is different to the adrenalin in a boxing match. you dont shake uncontrollably in the ring. its a more controlled environment in the ring, and your survival isnt in question (most times anyways). iguess the adrenalin is released in a constant flow rather than in one huge spurt. would have loved to see the comedy show with ure friend though. would have made a great movie __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

10-27-2007, 09:19 AM	#42 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	I'm not saying that boxing isn't tough training and that they aren't fit, I'm just saying that I think MMA training is more difficult. Muay Thai fighters are probably the most bad ass fighters out there and the most fit. As far as behaving like an Englishman..wtf is up with that statement? I guess all the hooligans forget to be Englishmen eh? Last edited by Glory's Sun; 10-27-2007 at 09:25 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

10-27-2007, 12:01 PM	#45 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	I have been forced to watch a few "MMA" fights, and I admit that I have only seen a limited amount, but hardly any of the fights I saw featured anyone who could actually throw a clean punch. Most of them did not seem to be actually know how to punch... the reason is clear, because in the rules of that game (ie - all out fighting bar a few exceptions like eye gouging) the most valuable tactis is to trip someone up, then bend a joint the wrong way so they have to submit. This is how nearly all the fights I saw ended, because it is the easiest way to win. PLUS, anyone that CAN box, WOULD box because there is a lot of money and prestige for people who excel in it, while MMA is a minority "sport". MMA is getting more popular for sure. But go anywhere in the world, and say names like Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis... people know them. The same can hardly be said about the MMA brawlers.... they are less weel known that WWF wrestlers. It might have a loyal minority fan base, but it is not into popular culture. So... this point is just about those who say that these MMA people are so much tougher than boxers. It is a different sport... it is simply a fight with a couple of things outlawed. There is no MMA champion today who could compete for a world title in boxing and last 6 rounds. I guarantee this. By the same standards, boxers arent wrestlers, and if they had to fight someone who just tripped them up and put them in an arm lock, they might find it hard too. I personally prefer to watch the sweet science to a scrap with little skill other than the skill to inflict harm. Perhaps some people DO prefer the all out style of MMA. Some people prefer all the drama of WWF too.... There will NEVER be a Muhammad Ali of MMA. In fact, there will never even be a Frank Bruno or Henry Cooper of MMA. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

10-27-2007, 01:16 PM	#46 (permalink)
Telluride Browncoat Location: California	Most boxing matches are boring. Most MMA matches are not. Here endeth the debate. __________________ "I am certain that nothing has done so much to destroy the safeguards of individual freedom as the striving after this mirage of social justice." - Friedrich Hayek

10-27-2007, 01:26 PM	#47 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	And some people watch TV because books are "boring" Stating your subjective opinion of something is not the same thing as a statement of fact. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

10-27-2007, 09:23 AM	#43 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I think that by the "behaving like an englishman" comment he probably means that instead of kicking his opponent whilst down he would send a contingent of soldiers to occupy his opponent's land, cultivate a caustic sense of distrust and hatred between his opponent's family members whilst siphoning off all of his opponent's land's economic value.

10-27-2007, 04:21 PM	#49 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	Other than Strange Famous not knowing what he is talking about, what is this thread about? Of course a UFC fighter couldn't hang with a championship boxer in the boxing ring. But niether could a boxer hang with an mma fighter in the octagon. They are two different sports, and comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges. Strange: just because you don't "get" something doesn't make it any less viable. UFC is THE fastest growing sport in the world right now. It is huge, and not remotely close to being a "minority sport," as you call it. Just because you don't know about the rules doesn't mean they aren't there. And once mma has been around, on television, for as long as boxing has, then your comparisons will make at least a little bit of sense. Statements like: "There will never be a Muhammad of mma..." etc...etc...are meaningless, obviously. Especially coming from someone with such an obviously biased viewpoint. If you followed the sport even remotely, you'd know that it already has a few "Muhammedesqe" figures, who have dominated their divisions for long periods of time. __________________ Bad Luck City

10-29-2007, 09:16 PM	#58 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	I think the one of the tightest shows on TV is Human Weapon on the History Channel. Strange you for sure would learn so much by watching it. Whether it is the original MMA Greeco Pancrasion(sp) fighting all the way through Muy Thai in Thailand, or Krav Maga in Israel. An assumed risk cannot by nature equate to an unfair blood bath as you atest. If I step into a cage with a tiger I am not going to hold it against him for clawing my throat, its natural. All the same stepping into the ring with a nin-jitsu guy he will dominate the fight on the ground. A Muy Thai guy will kick my leg and probably crush any future hopes of my MCL. But knowing that is part of the rules and doesn't make it dishonorable. And I hate bringing it up again, but anyone who has been in an actual fight knows that any sense of honor goes out the window once you go into survival mode. Fighting some gabroni at the bar and making sure he cannot hurt you is night and day compared to taking someone to the mat in MMA. **************************** Also the point of skill has been brought up... Boxers do not harness or utilize much skill out side of a simple discipline. Bob, duck, weave... jab, hook, upper cut. They are phenominal athletes, endurance and muscles I am not belittling that. They are one dimensional, it is natural to throw fists. MMA you can't just berserk because you will be completely unguarded and exposed lest you drop your opponent. MMA is a strategic sport, thats why they have to utilize such a vast array of disciplines. ******************************** Also anybody who cares or likes this shit should watch Fight Science that was done by the National Geographic Channel, shit is ridiculous. And go figure that although boxing at its peak performance can delivers up to 1000 pounds of impact force it was out done by tae kwon do kicks, and most importantly the Muy Thai knee. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition. Last edited by Mojo_PeiPei; 10-29-2007 at 09:30 PM..

10-31-2007, 06:24 PM	#61 (permalink)
Not Right Now Insane Location: Far Away	Human Weapon is great. __________________ I only came to dance. Last edited by Not Right Now; 10-31-2007 at 06:26 PM..

11-01-2007, 02:45 PM	#62 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Human Weapon is a sweet show, just watched the one on Krav Maga, that was my favourite one so far. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

11-02-2007, 03:47 PM	#64 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	I like to watch MMA because I think to myself that these are the men who would be gladiators hundreds of years ago. These are the guys who would survive a war. These guys are the pinnacle of what the human body can do. They turn their bodies into weapons and they show what power can erupt from a biological being if trained properly. I'm jealous of what these fighters can do and I'm proud that there are human beings left on this planet who train in the art of fighting. As for boxing, I don't know enough about it and haven't watched it enough to comment on it intelligently but holy cow MMA is more entertaining.

11-03-2007, 05:27 AM	#66 (permalink)
Not Right Now Insane Location: Far Away	Sir, we get it. You don't like striking a downed opponent. __________________ I only came to dance.

11-03-2007, 05:42 AM	#67 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Oh, he'll get it when he's in a real fight, though. Live and learn. And spend some time in the hospital. Is a hard knock life out there. /end GI Joe PSA __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

11-03-2007, 09:35 AM	#70 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	I dont know who Chuck Liddell is, I presume some kind of wrestler or karate fighter who is a well known cage fighter. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

11-03-2007, 11:05 AM	#71 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Liddell can out punch any modern day boxer.. I don't get the whole "MMA is for cowards" argument.. wouldn't it stand to reason that if you were in a no-rules (which mma isn't obviously) that it would take more balls than getting into a ring where you can only use one skill set??

11-03-2007, 11:14 AM	#72 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	If Liddell is a better boxer than any living boxer, why doesnt he - just say as a one off - fight for a world title? A title fight purse will be in the millions, more than he makes, or ever could make, in MMA Im sure... if he is such a well known figure he should only need 4 or 5 fights to get into title contention. Once he has had a couple of fights and made 10 million dollars he can go back to MMA and be all hardcore or whatever. (and fight for 50,000 dollar purses again). _ Perhaps he would... if he could box. EDIT - apparently he is a light heavyweight. So he should go after Joe Calzaghe I guess, and give him a boxing lesson. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas Last edited by Strange Famous; 11-03-2007 at 11:18 AM..

11-03-2007, 11:47 AM	#74 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Ray Mercer is in his late 40's and Butterbean belongs in a circus.. what is the point of these observations? Presumably next you'll tell me MMA is so far superior because Kurt Angle could beat Muhammad Ali since the Parkinson's set in? __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas Last edited by Strange Famous; 11-03-2007 at 11:52 AM..

11-03-2007, 12:17 PM	#75 (permalink)
Not Right Now Insane Location: Far Away	Randy Couture is in his late 40s and he is a world champion. Age is a number, no more no less. You forget that I used to box to, I'm just pointing out that the transition isn't as easy as you're making it out to be. I respect Muhammad Ali as an athlete and as a boxer. the man was simply amazing, and the fact that you would make such a stupid comment even in jest or what I assume was an attempt at insulting my intelligence, makes me question your respect for the guy. Some boxers do well in octagon, Alessio Sakara has a decent record, and was a championship boxer in Italy, the difference is, and he learned Ju Jitsu. If he were to step in the cage with his quick hands and great technique with no ground game, he would get creamed just like Ray Mercer does, only at half his age. As a result he trains here in Miami and has a Brown belt in Ju Jitsu. He also maintains that to survive in the sport, you can’t rely on just boxing or wrestling, you have to learn as much as you can. ps, if you want to prove an mma fan, it would probably be better to use someone who has had a professional fight as an example, not a wrestler who has yet to debut in a second tier talent company. __________________ I only came to dance. Last edited by Not Right Now; 11-03-2007 at 12:20 PM..

11-03-2007, 12:58 PM	#76 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	the fact that a middle aged man is capable of dominating MMA is hardly a good advert for it (anymore than George Foreman knocking out Michael Moorer was for boxing) __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

11-03-2007, 02:36 PM	#78 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	I just looked up the guy who is gonna beat Joe Calzaghe properly on wiki Wins 20 By knockout 13 By submission 1 Losses 5 Draws 0 14 stoppages in 25 fights is apparently all it takes in MMA to be a better puncher than any boxer out there... I assume MMA fighters must have MUCH heavier gloves, or maybe they mostly fight 4 rounds most of the time? Because that is a pretty poor record if this guy is the premier puncher in the whole sport. As for the Randy guy... you say is is late 40's... thats a LOT different tearly 40's (ie Bernard Hopkins, who is 41/42?) __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

11-03-2007, 02:41 PM	#79 (permalink)
Not Right Now Insane Location: Far Away	I never said eh was in his late 40s he's 44. B-Hop is 43 B-Hop challenged Joe Calzaghe after beating Winky Wright. As for Chuck Liddell I'd say a Wanderlei Silva or a Mauricio Shogun Rua have a betetr chance of beating a boxer using their Muay Thai. Chuck does betters with grapplers than against strikers, although the man throws bricks, but he is far from being the best striker in mma. Also what you fail to take into consideration, which can be excused since you ar enot a fan of the sport is this, a lot of Chuck Liddell's decision matches were in the eraly half of his career. After that every single one of his wins was via KO. __________________ I only came to dance. Last edited by Not Right Now; 11-03-2007 at 02:51 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

11-03-2007, 02:47 PM	#80 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	*leans in thread like Spiderman* Nope, I still wanna spar w/ StrangeFamous. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."