joeyjoey

Hey guys ESPN is looking for the top athletes in any sports. You can nominate your fave athletes here... http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...whosnow/070611 , I noticed the list doesn't have any MMA fighters yet. I think ufc legend Randy Couture or maybe Rampage atleast should be there. MMArtists deserve of such credit too...same with boxing...

Willravel

Current or ever? If it's ever, I'm going with the Great One: Wayne Gretzky. If it's current, I'm going with Bernd Schneider, one of the best drivers I've ever seen.

spectre

Walter Payton. Part of what made him so great is the grueling offseason workouts that he'd put himself through which consisted of going to a tall, steep hill near his home and continuously running straight up it. He'd bring other players, all very good athletes, and none of them could keep up.

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Ch'i

Bruce Lee, of course.

The_Jazz

Haile Gebresalasie - whenever you hold 12 (I think) simulateous records in track and field, you are the dominant force in the sport. You cannot doubt the clock.

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highthief

Wow, what an awful list.

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dirtyrascal7

It should be noted that they will "determine the ultimate sports star by considering both on-field success and off-field buzz". Also, it does look like the list is of current athletes only. Obviously they are putting a lot of weight on the 'off-field buzz' part considering they have Danica Patrick and Michelle Wie on the list, neither of whom have won anything significant.

I was going to suggest Michael Phelps and Lance Armstrong, but Phelps is already on the list and Armstrong is retired... so therefore I will throw Louis Hamilton's name into the hat. That kid is scary good.

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The_Jazz

Agreed. Completely. The vast majority have no place on there.

Since when are drivers "athletes"? Golfers are a stretch, but at least the game does require something more than pure hand/eye coordination.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Jetée

Kobayashi... ???

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reconmike

Bo Jackson, man could he hit and throw a baseball, and then run d-backs over
like they were cardboard cutouts. It is a shame he went down like he did with the broken hip.

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Strange Famous

Roger Federer. Simply peerless.

edit - lol, whoever made this list doesnt seem too aware of any sports played outside the US!

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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

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dirtyrascal7

Racecar drivers require a very significant amount of physical endurance, high awareness, and intense mental calculation. Besides... their events are shown on sports channels, they have full seasons and championships, clearly definied winners and losers, teams, and rivalries.

So, if you wouldn't classify them as athletes, what exactly would you call them?

__________________
"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

Jetée

I am glad you recognized not to mention Henman(though he is good in his own right,too)

A second nomination for Roger Federer here.
He is too amazing for words. For those that know little to nothing of his game, tune ino some tennis and watch him win virtually every event he participates in.

I honestly do not know how he has not yet claimed his first Grand Slam.
I am about to google him to see if he won this year at Roland Garros(French Open), but if he did, I see virtually no way of stopping him from winning Wimbledon once again(gonna google that, too ) and the upcoming U.S. Open.


man, the only downside to not owning a TV right now is not being able to stay in tune with the sports team and athletes I admire so much.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

powerclown

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light; and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Then God created Earl Boykins, and He was happy.

Baraka_Guru

I would nominate the team of Charlie Engle, Ray Zahab, and Kevin Lin. Last year, they ran across the Sahara Desert in 111 days straight. It was like running two marathons a day, 4,300 miles (6,920 kilometers) total, no days off.



They ran from the Atlantic Ocean to the Red Sea through six countries. Yes, in the desert.

They would each have my nomination.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Jetée

I can see that, and they are most deserving, but wouldn't you say that would count more for a greatest accomplishment? And are they technically athletes? What sport do they professionally compete in and receive compensation and salary for? Have they demonstrated past and continued contributions to that said sport? Are they the best in their respective professions?

Ponder on those questions, because I am sure those are all prerequisites for a nomination of your best athlete.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

dirtyrascal7

Wow, JS... I'm surprised at you. So people who participate in sports are only athletes if they compete at the professional level?

Seems to me that, by the definition above, those three would easily qualify as athletes and that their accomplishments would warrant such a nomination.

Either way... I think through the course of this thread we have determined that one's criteria for nominating a "best athlete" is highly subjective... so I don't understand why you are opposing someone else's opinion so adamantly.

__________________
"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

Jetée

By the way you responded to my inquiry of Baraka_Guru's nomination, I take it you see as deconstructive. I was merely voicing the observation that we have no idea what sport and/or athletic activity these three nominations competed in. Was it sprinting, or cross-country trekking? I also noticed that they had no active competition. Sure, the defintion you provided was correct, but also quite vague and incomplete. I'm sure that the OP meant for this thread to be a debate of the top athletes in any given profession whereas they must continually prove themselves to be worthy of the title of best athlete.


Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that this thread was meant to be highly subjective, as was the OP in his opine about MMA getting nominated as such. I opined about a sport that doesn't get much publicity, and defended that the best player right now(arguably) is current #1 Roger Federer.


Before you go about condemning for just stating a notion that all athletes must be professionals, why don't you go about clicking the link joeyjoey provided for us, read the article in question, and then state if non-professional, non-commercial, and virtually non-identificational persons should be considered among the Top 32 Athletes.


I meant absolutely no disrespect to Baraka_Guru's initial opinion, but I thought he should reconsider it due to the constraints set forth by the OP.
I think all those that set forth an opinion of their top pick for the greatest athlete today should provide basis for that, and also be prepared to defend that opinion as well. That is what sets forth a true determination of what it means to be the best, and be recognized for your deserved accomplishments. If an athlete can be held up to scrutinaztion on all accounts, wouldn't you say they are the best?

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

The_Jazz

Full disclosure - I'm an athletic snob, so treat me as a representative sample of only me.

Drivers are just that - drivers. I don't doubt that the skill requires some endurance, but give me a break. Those folks literally sit on their asses. The only reason that you don't see fat guys doing it is that they weigh more. I have no doubts that they're incredibly brave and well trained to do what they do, but driving is a learned skill that anyone can learn to do well.

By the same token, golfers aren't athletes either in my book. Golf is all about hand/eye coordination and very little strength or speed muscles.

To me, an athlete has to demonstrate at least two of the following to be eligible - endurance, stregth, speed - in an amount that physcially taxes major systems of the body.

Many baseball players (I'm looking at you John Kruk and Mark Grace) fail that test.

Finally, Jetstream's running team fails the test because there wasn't any competition. Athletes compete. I'm not sure how to define what these guys did, but they didn't compete against anyone else.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

dirtyrascal7

Seems to me like you're assuming an awful lot. He never said anything about a debate or limiting it to professional sports:To me it was both an informative post (directing you to the ESPN article) and an invitation to share your opinions, based on whatever criteria you deem appropriate.

In my opinion, I would not consider those three in the top athletes, professional or otherwise (by the way, I obviously read the article because I quoted it in my first post on this thread). However, that was not the reason I responded to your post. The issue I had was the fact that you were questioning whether those three were even "technically athletes". Also that you, just like above, seemed to be making assumptions about other peoples intentions/thought processes:

So from what you've said, you consider athletism to be purely about muscles and their performance (in the context of competition). Hand/eye coordination and skill don't mean anything because they can be learned/practiced... is that correct?

So then would you consider those competing in the "World's Strongest Man" competitions to be the best athletes in the world?

__________________
"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

spectre

By that logic, I can argue that the winner of a Halo tournament can be included as a top shelf athlete.

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

dirtyrascal7

That really doesn't follow what I was saying at all.

My point is that I consider hand/eye coordination, natural skill, mental endurance, calculation, and strategy, etc to be a very integral part of sports. And by that notion, I consider golfers, racecar drivers, and many other individuals athletes that The_Jazz most likely does not. I have no problem with that, I would just like to understand his perspective. I apologize if my response to him came across as snide, I did not intend it that way.

__________________
"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

Baraka_Guru

Just for the record, the running team I highlighted all compete internationally as ultramarathoners, where they compete against other runners (and, in some races, skiers) and can win medals, awards, and/or cash prizes for placing.

Also, if you look into the running histories of these runners, you will see that they've proven their athleticism in a number of ultramarathons. I didn't confirm this for Kevin Lin, but both Ray Zahab and Charlie Engel are top-ranking runners in these competitions.

They do crazy things like running through the desert, the arctic, and rain forests.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

The_Jazz

I see why you think that's what I meant, but no. Hand/eye coordination (along with foot/eye, etc.) clearly factor into most sports (but not all by any means). My problem with driving and baseball is that the hand/eye skills take precedence over strength, speed and endurance. Sports like football, track, soccer, etc. all require coordination skills, but those that aren't in good physical condition cannot accel at them.

Again in the light of full disclosure, I'm a huge baseball fan, specifically the Cubs, but I've met far too many professional baseball players that weren't athletes.

As for the ultramarathoners, I again wasn't clear. The Sahara trek wasn't a race. There was no competition involved. Just like someone hiking to the North Pole or the top of Everest doesn't make them an athlete, completing this journey doesn't make them althetes either. However, if I remember correctly, Zahab won the Leadville 100 a few years ago, which immediately qualifies him as an athlete. Once you introduce competition to the mix, it changes things from an interesting walk/run into a race.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Ch'i

Brady Quinn

Telluride

Yeah, the "off-field buzz" aspect is bullshit, in my opinion. There are great athletes who generate little "off-field buzz" and mediocre athletes who are famous for their social lives, appearance, etc.

I'd say no to Louis Hamilton for the same reason that a guy like Vince Young doesn't belong on the list: he hasn't been around long enough. To me, a great athlete is one who stays at the top of his or her game for an extended period of time. Hamilton and Young may eventually be great, but I think it's too soon to include them.

Anyway...here's who I would add to the list:

Matt Hughes (most dominant champ in UFC history)
Fedor Emilianenko (most dominant heavyweight MMA fighter ever)
Ricky Carmichael (probably the most dominant motocross/supercross rider ever)
Roy Oswalt (starting pitcher for the Houston Astros who wins lots of games for what is often a lousy team)

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bazkitcase5

So basically, going on your examples, it takes many things to make a great athlete...

A team of pro football players, no matter how strong and how fast would get demolished by a team of pro soccer players and vice versa. Same goes for track. Yea there are examples/exceptions of baseball players who are not in the best shape, but there are many more examples of baseball players who are in superb condition - particularly the ones who are actually good. Yes baseball is mostly hand/eye skills, but if thats all it was, then bonds and others wouldn't have taken steroids.

So yea, strength, stamina, and endurance are important, but so are technique, intelligence, and raw talent. There are many things that make an athlete and these many things must be considered if you want to talk about who has the best of them all...

The_Jazz

baxkitcase - reread what I wrote. I never differentiated between the sports (i.e. stated that Michael Jordan was a better athlete than John Elway). Technique and intelligence obviously play a huge roll in athletic achievement, but an athlete is not an athlete without speed/stamina/strength. I use technique and intelligence every day at work, but that's by no means athletic.

Raw talent doesn't exist. It's a combination of all the terms used above and is only a catch-all phrase to combine them in some fashion.

And we aren't talking about who's the best pure athlete. If that's the case, we're done every time there's a decathlon competition. We're talking about who are the best athletes in their respective sports. The debate that you're joining is what sports are counted.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

biznatch

Zinedine Zidane, Pele.
Micheal Jordan?

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highthief

Roman Saberle, Daly Thompson, the great decathaletes.

Further, guys like Dave Scott, Mark Allen, Peter Reid, Paula Newby-Fraser and the great triatheletes.

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dlish

i cant believe i missed this thread back in 2007.

i bought the DVD of the 'running the sahara' feat as a christmas present for a good friend a few months

for the record, kevin lin is one ofthe most accomplished marathoners that Taiwan has ever produced.

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Strange Famous

I read the article. I read the part that said "does soccer count?" and decided it was not worth taking seriously a poll that doesnt know thr name of the most popular sport on earth, and mentioned David Beckham as their example of a great "soccer player"

Anyway, my top 10 athletes of all time

1 - Jack Johnson
2 - Pele
3 - Roger Federer
4 - Usain Bolt
5 - Ayrton Senna
6 - Don Bradman
7 - Zinedine Zidane
8 - Ty Cobb
9 - Aladár Gerevich
10- Jem Mace
9 -

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas