crow_daw

OK, so who all here thought that Matt Hughes would actually pull it out against Royce Freaking Gracie? The man whose family invented Brazilian Jiujitsu. It was one hell of a fight, but not only Hughes pull it out, he dominated Gracie.

So, what did you guys think? Who did you think would win? Your thoughts overall? The rest of the fights?

Personally, I was very much so rooting for Hughes, but deep down I didn't really think he had a chance.

I became even more of a Mike Swick fan tonight, he's just so explosive. Also, when Rick Davis got knocked out, that was one of the hardest punches I had ever seen. And the falling guillotine by Brandon Vera was impressive too.


Just a really entertaining event, IMO.

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"We each have a star, all we have to do is find it. Once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded." - Earl Simmons

Ace_O_Spades

oh man, the flying knee to the head was devestation.

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Feh.

Toaster126

Are you kidding? Most who are educated about the fight game had Hughes destroying Gracie.

I'm super glad Swick won. I had doubts he could contend with Riggs' power, but I guess that wasn't a problem, eh? He's quite a character outside the ring as well. Riggs is going to have to figure out why he isn't quite getting to the next level. He has all the tools to do so. Maybe he needs a new camp to train with.

The Diego \ Alessio fight was interesting. I think Diego showed he sucked, Alessio showed he had amazing takedown defense, the judges showed that they don't know what Octogon control means, and that the refs that aren't Herb Dean and Big John blow goat nuts. I mean, if they had either good ref in there, that 3 minutes of Diego on Alessio's back doing nothing would have been broken up. Just because you are upright doesn't mean you are exempt from being broken up for inactivity.

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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Ace_O_Spades

Yeah, Hughes really dominated Gracie, start to finish. Everyone was saying that if it went to the ground that Gracie would take over... clearly when it went to the ground all Gracie was trying to control was his elbow from being broken and trying to not be knocked out from repeated blows to the back of the head.

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Feh.

crow_daw

I agree with everything you said except the first comment. I mean I know some people had Hughes picked to win, but I don't know if "most" is the correct term, and I'm highly skeptical of "destroying" as well. Ace is right: most people thought that if it went to the ground it was game over for Hughes. They were just wrong.

However, I agree wholeheartedly with you about Sanchez/Alessio. That was freaking ridiculous. Every point you made was correct and something I said while watching last night. Alessio showed amazing defense, and if anything it should have been a draw, not a loss for him. Also, you're right about the refs. I cannot freaking BELIEVE that he didn't break that up; that was just totally uncalled for.

Another question for you guys: Why did Gracie lose? I mean if you're familiar with earlier UFC, then you know the man made it look like ART back in the day. I mean he really did. A friend of mine (a diehard Gracie fan), claims he's just too old. But he's close to the same age as The Iceman, and he's younger than both Shamrock and Couture. So I don't think that holds up.

Personally, I just think it was a changing of the guard. I don't think anyone who's purely ground game can stand up to the challenge anymore. You've simply GOT to be well-rounded nowadays.

Lastly, were you guys not simply amazed by the determination of Gracie though? If Matt Hughes had me in an arm bar, I wouldn't last two seconds. You could tell from the look on Gracie's face that he was gonna let him break it before he was gonna submit. Pretty astonishing, IMO.

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"We each have a star, all we have to do is find it. Once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded." - Earl Simmons

docbungle

Sometimes people are just completely overpowered. Such was the case with Gracie. Matt Hughes is just so much stronger than him in every way.

UFC 61 looks very promising.

As an aside, watching the promo stuff for the fight, Gracie had some very interesting methods of working out.

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Bad Luck City

Glory's Sun

Most of the people I know had Hughes destroying Gracie. Sure Gracie has the reputation and the glamour blah blah, but Hughes is freaking amazing. He's well-rounded which will always beat out a one dimensional fighter.

Charlatan

Gracie is old school. He is amazing when it comes to Ju-jitsu, but the truth is he really isn't a mixed martial artist.

When he was dominating in the early days of UFC he was winning because the majority of those getting in the ring had no idea what to do with him. They were all kickers and strikers. As soon as Gracie got in close they were going to lose.

The fighters today are all on much more equal footing. They know how to strike and they know how to fight on the ground. Gracie, while still very good, just can't stand up to the punishment that these new fighters (or at least the very best of this new breed of fighters) can dish out.

That and he was over powered...

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Toaster126

Royce hasn't had enough fights for me to say he is "amazing". I'd say just by osmosis he has to be really good at BJJ, lol. Gracies in general don't fight much, and when they do usually they have special rules or drama of some kind. Hell, he's not even the 3rd best Gracie I know of as far as fighting is concerned.

He did make a bunch of grown men question their whole lives dedication to one single art, inspire lots to learn about BJJ, and entertain millions, and for that I salute him.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Charlatan

I agree with you on all points.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

ReggErving

I'm sorry I wasted $40 on the fight, they were boring. I beleived Hughes was going to beat Gracie but not in such a conveincing fashion.

There is no way I am going to pay to see the next UFC, Ortiz vs Shamrock. Shamrock is a big pussy, everytime I have seen him fight recently, i.e. PRIDE fighting or UFCc he has gotten destroyed. Ortiz will win this one.

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MontanaXVI

Could not have said it better myself, while I missed the fight I cannot think of any better way to put it than you did Charl. Gracie is an all time great in my eyes, but the "new breed" knows how to ground and pound now the guys are not just punchers anymore.

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Spank you very much

Toaster126

I would never call Shamrock a pussy to his face, but I would certainly say his career seems to have been made up of a lot of smoke and mirrors.

Ortiz is very very good, and even with his injuries (torn ACL and MCL?) that won't be fully healed, I expect him to make Ken look bad.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Jason762

Being a BJJ-ist I hoped Gracie would win and show just how effective BJJ is, even against an actual fighter, but being a realist, I knew Hughes would win.

As for Shamrock, that guy strikes me as odd... has anyone seen his training methods in TUF3, especially in the earlier episodes?

Toaster126

I own a book of his called Inside the Lion's Den... it goes over a lot of the training regimen of his fight team (the Lion's Den) if you are interested. I wouldn't waste my money on it though.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

ReggErving

[QUOTE=Toaster126]I would never call Shamrock a pussy to his face...

QUOTE]



Well, I wouldn't either. He would destroy me

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...sitting on your bed with a samauri pose.

Jove

I think he would destroy most of us, except for Ortiz, who destoryed Shamrock after the second round. It was a bit rough to watch because I thought Shamrock was going to at least throw in a few punches, but at the end of the second round, shamrock was beaten to a pulp while Ortiz looked fine.