Brewmaniac

Now that Wayne Gretzky admited he did know about his wiife's involvement in Rick Tocchet's gambling ring, should he step down? Even if no hockey betting was involved?

If you would have asked me Tuesday I would have said no but now after reading he was caught with a legal wiretap(I assume), I think in the interest of saving the game any more embarrassment he should step aside. Only because as a coach and owner he can't be that close to illegal gambling. Why didn't he just tell her to keep her habit confined to cities that have legal gaming!

What's your thoughts?



COMMENTARY
By Kara Yorio
Updated: 3:30 p.m. ET Feb. 9, 2006


Gretzky must quit Coyotes immediately
Remaining as coach amid gambling scandal will be terrible distraction

First of all, well done to Gary Bettman. After the initial statement from the league from Bill Daly made is sound as if the NHL would assume its typical ostrich position on a situation, Bettman has taken action and promised cooperation. The indefinite leave of absence for Rick Tocchet, during which he cannot talk to anyone connected to the NHL, was absolutely the right decision.

But now, Bettman's decisions are going to get a lot more difficult. It's easy enough to banish Coyotes assistant coach Tocchet, not exactly a household name and alleged to be a leader in a gambling ring that may have involved links to organized crime. Now, however, Bettman must deal with Tocchet's boss, the Great One himself.

According to a story in The Star-Ledger (NJ), Wayne Gretzky did, in fact, know about Tocchet's gambling ring (despite denying any knowledge of the situation when it first came up with reporters on Tuesday) and is caught on wiretaps talking about it before the charges came down on Tocchet and allegations that Gretzky's wife, Janet Jones, bet through Tocchet came to light.

Now the last thing the NHL (and Team Canada) wants is anything that can hurt the reputation of Gretzky, and Bettman and the rest will want to stand by his side. But how can they ignore the fact that he may be called to testify in front of a grand jury, that he is caught on tape discussing the situation and that he is not only a head coach in the National Hockey League and its most famous player of all time, but also a part owner of the Coyotes? They can't.

Unfortunately, Gretzky is about to be swallowed into the circumstances around him. It is exactly why his wife should have found another way to get her gambling fix, if the allegations are true, because the risk to her husband and his entire life was just too great to take.

Gretzky's standing will be different, too, from any players found to have bet through Tocchet. While gambling on sports is not the brightest thing for an athlete to do -- any time the questions of even possibly betting on your own game comes up, the games' integrity is already in doubt -- it is not against the rules for an NHLer to gamble on football or basketball or any other sport than hockey.

Of course, illegal activity, illegal gambling could fall into a different category. But the fact is, if the players were simply giving their money to Tocchet and didn't know anything but the spread on their games, their punishment must be less severe than that of Tocchet's. But it's going to take a long time to sort out these facts, and what is Bettman to do in the meantime?
.

If he's lucky, Gretzky will do the right thing and step down before Bettman has to say anything. Gretzky must say that, while he didn't place any bets and while he doesn't believe Tocchet or Janet bet on hockey, he cannot compromise the league in this way until the investigation has been completed.

This is not an admission of any guilt other than by association and the guilt of tarnishing the league's image by that association. He must step down, saying he doesn't want to be a longer-lasting, bigger distraction to his team as they try to make the playoffs. He must give up his control of Team Canada for Turin, citing the same idea of distraction and not wanting to hurt the image and reputation of Hockey Canada.

Is any of this fair? Probably not. But it is what the situation has become. It is as bad as it can get for the NHL . . . unless there's another taped conversation or two out there that talks about betting on hockey or passing along inside information.

Then 2006 becomes 1919 and any strides the NHL has taken since the lockout are immediately lost.
© 2006 The Sporting News


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11243000/#storyContinued

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"That's a joke... I say, that's a joke, son"

highthief

No, he should not. A person is not responsible for the actions of their spouse, child, parent, brother, or whatever. He's not expected to turn his wife in for something that is what? A misdemeanour if even that.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Daoust

I agree that this whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion. I wouldn't be surprised if Gretzky was betting. Everyone does it. I'm sure he just got Janet to do all his betting for him. She'll take the hit, and he'll take it by association. Will it, and should it tarnish his career and persona? I don't think so, in the least.
I think this will turn out to be just a big media hyped story that implicates a few insignificant players and personnel, but in the end doesn't do any serious damage to anyone, except maybe Tocchet.

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I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace
But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys

Toaster126

No, he shouldn't. He should trade in his wife for a new one.

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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Hanxter

how could he not have known???

what did he know and when did he know it???

and maybe more importantly... if the occasion arises where he is found culpable, does he keep his place in the HOF???

if so, then for Christ's sake, let hustle in!!!

highthief

Man, placing bets isn't even illegal. Tochett as an organizer might be in trouble as he was profiting, but so what if Janet placed a few bets? I could care less if Gretzky himself bet.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Glory's Sun

Gretz's reputation will be tarnished now. Say what you want and will but that's the bottom line. He knew about his wife's involvment yet didn't say a word to anyone and didn't get her out of it. Wayne is a cautious guy, he won't even be in an elevator alone with a woman for christs sake. Given his personality and cautiousness with his reputation, I'd say he just fucked up.

I don't care if he did bet.. hell I'd like to see Pete Rose back in baseball, I'm just pointing out that his rep will be taken down a notch or two.

Brewmaniac

Placing bets in 100k amount with an illegal book is a crime(white coller yes, but Martha went to prison, no?) and unfortunately Wayne new enough to try to cover it up. He was way to close, his wife and one of his best friends, asst. coach. As I said in my original post he should have sent her to Vegas or Atlantic City on a regular basis. Also should have told Tochett to stop or step down. I love Wayne & what he did for the game, I hope there is some way out for him, I just don't see it.

Oh, the everybody does it won't wash either Gretzky knows he lives in a fishbowl and by his position has to live by a higher standard.

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"That's a joke... I say, that's a joke, son"

feelgood

Man, you guys are going bout this the wrong way. Since when did we run our justice system under the assumption that everybody's guility until proven innocent?

This is probably another ploy pulled by Team USA to prevent Team Canada from reaching the gold medal match

Puts on his tinfoil hat

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Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

Brewmaniac

feelgood, I must agree with you to a point but Gretzky is the number 1 ambassador for the game of hockey(pro & olympic) and with that, I believe comes a great responsabiliy. As I said originally, I think in the interest of saving the game any more embarrassment he should step aside.

I truly hope this has zero effect on the actual on ice game! That would be really sad.

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"That's a joke... I say, that's a joke, son"

Ace_O_Spades

*SCOFF*

This whole thing is ridiculous. The guy didn't do anything illegal. He loves his wife, and he was trying to help her out of a sticky situation.

I pose this question:

What would YOU have done if you found out your wife was doing illegal betting. Would you run to the cops and turn her in? Go to the media and save face?

No.

Gretzky did just what anyone else would do. He broke no NHL laws, and if he gets a good lawyer, BOOM, the wiretap evidence goes bye-bye... Those get thrown out a large percentage of the time.

He shouldn't have to step down, nor will he. He is the symbolic leader of Canadian hockey, he needs to be at Turin.

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Feh.

highthief

I've read several articles that say Janet has not commited a crime and is not going to jail or anything, including today's Toronto Sun, IIRC.

Regardless, a guy is not going to turn in his wife for something that is, at worst, slightly shady. Shit, most gambling is "illegal" - but half the population does it anyway.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Willravel

He's still the great one. Let him be great, and don't worry about something he did that wasn't even illegal. I said the same thing about Clinton.

Brewmaniac

Hey all, I hope your right and it's being over blown by the media.
I just don't want the game to take any more negative hits.

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"That's a joke... I say, that's a joke, son"

the_marq

Should he step down?

NO NO NO, a million times no.

Also, FUCK NO.

Thank you, that's all I have to say for now until some facts are in. "Actual" facts, I feel compelled to point out.

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The Truth:

Johnny Cash could have kicked Bruce Lee's ass if he wanted to.

#3 in a series

feelgood

How is the game of hockey is gonna receive any negative hits from the whole scancel anyways? Its obvious that the NHL is not part of it, and they've proven that by having rules prohibing players and coaches from making bets on league games as well recuriting high level proceutor to investigate. It goes to show that the NHL is taking interest in this situation and has react positively the whole time.

I'm curious to hear your opinion on the negative hits on hockey

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Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

AVoiceOfReason

As a criminal defense attorney that has handled a few cases of this nature, I'm not sure what you base the notion that the cases in which someone is wiretapped results in the evidence being thrown out "a large percentage of the time." If you have any studies or stats to support this, I'd like to see it. My research and experience is contra to this--wiretaps are generally admissible when done pursuant to a court order allowing such.

But whether these particular ones would be admissible against Gretzky, his wife and/or others is beside the point. If it's Gretzky's voice and if the tapes have not been altered/edited, then we may well be able to know what he knew and when he knew it. Being involved in illegal gambling--which, by definition, is ILLEGAL for at least the one running the operation, if not the participants as well--is something everyone associated with a sport must be concerned with. The possibility of the bettor getting in debt to the bookie and then having to do something to square up the losses--fixing a game, providing inside information or something of that nature--is just too great for the league officials to overlook.

That's not saying that something of that nature DID happen; I have no idea. But just as an American president needs to behave himself so as not to be in a position to be blackmailed (Nixon and Clinton both come to mind) and thus compromise their ability to govern, athletes that engage in illegal gambling (and even legal betting, to a point) are putting themselves in a very bad spot personally and professionally.

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AVOR

A Voice Of Reason, not necessarily the ONLY one.

Brewmaniac

feelgood, the fact that Wayne's name and illegal gambling are used in the same sentence in every major media outlet is damaging to the NHL. The fact that the league went out to get such a high profile attorney as Robert Cleary, a former federal prosecutor who handled the Unabomber case, to investigate, says they are concerned about the “hit hockey will take”, which is the point I was trying to make.

After all the damage the lockout and rule changes have done the NHL needs to distance them from Gretzky as far as possible. All this is was so avoidable, it’s truly a shame.

I really hate feeling this way because I love Wayne and what he has shared with us. He has shown true class and I feel so bad for him and his family!

Hanxter

Q: is betting on sports legal in new jersey?
A: in some instances yes provided that the amount of money bet is equal to the amount paid. if you bet $10 and won $10 then there is no crime. however if the bet was made thru a third party and a percentage was taken from the winnings then he/she is promoting gambling which is a crime.

Q: what are the penalties?
A: the amount of $$$ determines whether it's a second or third degree crime. third degree carries 10 years and second carries 5.

Q: what did tocchet allegedly do?
A: allegedly he ran a for-profit gambling ring.

Q: were the people who bet thru the ring charged and is it a crime to bet with a bookie?
A: no, they weren't. strictly speaking, it is not a crime to place a bet.

Q: are office pools legal?
A: yes, provided no one takes a cut of the winners winnings. the winner takes all. whoever takes a percentage or portion of the pool can be prosecuted even if the cut was for "running" the pool or for "expenses".

Q: where is sports gambling legal?
A: according to federal law, it's legal in nevada, oregon, delaware and montana but only nevada and oregon offer it.

so in a nut shell, tocchet is hosed and the hockey god squad is watching gretz only because he's coach and part owner

Nikilidstrom

Man, for a group of people who spend most of there time putting Gretz on a pedastal, you guys are sure quick to crucify his ass. No one not involved in the investigation even knows if the wiretap crap is even real, as every report I've seen quoted an anonymous source speaking about alleged wiretaps. No official source has come fourth to confirm this, and Gretzky has NOT admitted to knowing anything about the illegal activity. His only statement to the media has been that he has not, now or ever, placed any bets on sports, and that he feels bad for Tocchet and his wife.

And as far as I've read, the case is concentrating primarily on the organizers of the ring, and their involvement with organized crime. Anyone who simply placed bets with the group will only be expected to testify about the ring, and not charged with any crime.

As we have seen with many unsubstantiated stories, especially of late (Iraq War, New Orleans Disaster, Floods in the North Easterns States), the truth can be far from what has actually been reported by the media. So before you go stringing Gretzky up by his skate laces, how about waiting for the complete story to come out from people who actually know what the hell they are talking about, and not just looking to boost ratings.

Hanxter

oh man i gotta share this with y'all...

last march uncle phil and i went to the bronx in nyc for the get together at hal's and buddah's place

for something to do phil and i went to this dinky little bar for a couple of cold ones

right off the get-go the bartender is there counting his slips and stuffing envelopes

one look around the place you would need your toes too to count all the cops in the place

at the far end of the bar is this guy manning some 6 newspapers and 2 phones at the same time

next thing we know the guy on the phone buys the whole place a round

the next night we decided to go to our newest favorite place for a couple

these two goons at the door told us the place was closed for a private party when the guy who bought the round called out to say we were cool and invited

so here we are in the bronx, in a cop bar, full of bookies, running numbers and horses in the middle of yankee territory and i'm wearing my game worn authentic red sox pedro jersey right after he signs with the mets

the guy who bought the round had hit $60K on the trifecta the day before said i had the biggest balls in new york

we didn't buy a drink all night

Ace_O_Spades

I should personally know better than to throw out a generalization like that without a source, shame on me. I don't have the source, I left some of my old criminal law text back in my hometown when I moved back from winter vacation, otherwise I would seek it out for you.

It was highlighting several cases of improper procedure in RCMP, also mentioning how they rarely make it into the media. And also how the charter of rights and freedoms gives very stringent methods of evidence collection with regards to wiretaps, and how the RCMP had a buffer period of essentially testing how far they could push the envelope. As is the case where the judiciary decided that it was contrary to the charter to have sit-in wiretaps in holding cells, trying to elict information etc.

Obviously this isn't the case with gretzky, but I'm trying to give reasons as to why the results could be skewed contrary to what your observations during your job have been.

best I can do without the statistics, sorry

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Feh.

MikeSty

I don't know about you Canadians, but in America, it's "innocent until proven guilty."

Good story, Hanxter. I wish my Uncle Phil was like that

I wish I had an Uncle Phil... always have,always will.

AVoiceOfReason

That's OK, I see we're talking about Canadian vs. American wiretaps, and I'd gladly defer to someone that knows ANYTHING about the RCMP experience, as it'd be more than I have!

And to be fair, you said "a large percentage." That's not the same as "more than half"--in some cases, 15% could be called "a large percentage."

But we're also talking about two different things--admissibility in court might hinge on some legal technicality (if it's YOUR rights, it's a mere technicality--if it's MINE, it's a substantive right! ), while the tapes themselves accurately reflect what was said (and in context). It's like the drug runner caught with a pound of cocaine but the search was later found to be illegal--the runner still had the dope.

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AVOR

A Voice Of Reason, not necessarily the ONLY one.

LazyBoy

I think most of this would of been avoided had he just of admitted it up front....

As far as stepping down? No, I don't think he should...Should he give his wife a separate bank account that gets a set amount every month? yes.

-Will

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Life is nothing, everything.....and something in between...

Nikilidstrom

admitted what? He knew nothing before the investgation was made public, and he doesn't actually have anything to do with this case. He didn't bet, he didn't finance, and he didn't conspire with the mob. The only reason his name is still attached to the case is because no one outside of hockey and fans knows who the hell Tocchet is, so by calling it the Gretzky Gambling Scandle, the reporters might actually get some readers to care about it. Its your typical media sensationalism, not giving a damn whether they drag an innocent man's name through the mud, as long as the story sounds good and sells.

silent_jay

Meh, why should he step down again? As he's said in every interview he has nothing to do with it, so we should all just move along, nothing to see here.

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