drainpipe

This is probably my first e/n post in any forum.

I honestly have no idea how to proceed with this girl (we'll call her Amy).

Amy's a college freshman and I'm a sophomore. I've talked to her pretty much since the beginning of the school year. Almost three weeks ago, I told Amy that I liked her, and she said she liked me, too. Unfortunately, I also heard from other reliable sources that, even though Amy likes me, she does not want to be in a serious relationship right now (which I completely understand), but would rather just casually date and get to know each other better and see where that leads. I invite her to come over and watch movies a lot. Sometimes we hold hands and end up talking for two hours or so afterwards. We have also been on one date, and, being very shy, I made almost no body contact of any sort. We are also going to two concerts, one with a group of friends this week and after this semester by ourselves.

My question for you, the knowledgable denizens of TFP, is what should I do? I would like to get beyond just holding hands, but I'm also afraid of scaring her off.

texxasco

Nice choice of a name...Amy. My ex wife's name is Amy and it caught my eye.

You know, for the length of time you have known the girl, it sounds to me like things are going great, except that it sounds like you want more. Once you feel comfortable enough around Amy to talk to her about this subject, then do just that...ask her about it. But first, you have to be honest with yourself about what you want, and what you are and are not willing to accept in a relationship. Be ready though, to hear something you may not want to hear. She may not want to go any further than where you two are right now....so you need to be ready if she says just that. Honestly though, what's wrong with taking things slow, and seeing where they will lead? Try a nice dinner one night, followed by a romantic walk, or something of that nature, and try kissing her. See if she responds, or turns her head...that too would be a pretty good indicator (as long as you didn't have anything with garlic or onions for dinner !! )

In short, communication, communication, communication.... Talk to the girl, and you will be glad you did.

Good luck

__________________
...A Bad Day of Fishing is Better Than a Great Day at Work!

World's King

So, I'm guessing kissing out of the question?


The best way to go about this... give it time. She'll be riding you like pony before you know it...

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

Mantus

Well you are never going to know if you dont try. You are past the point of courting her now. After three months, I think she knows if she wants you or not. I would advise you to make a move as soon as possible - like, tomorrow!

Step one.
From this moment on DO NOT even think the word: "relationship". Every action towards this woman will have two inclinations: fun and sex. So many guys make the mistake of trying to get IN a relationship. All their actions revolve around getting IN. They assume that once they are IN, sex comes next. WRONG. Develop lust, once you have lust work on creating a relationship. Now if you agree with me, we can move on to:

Step two.
Tell me exactly what you need here.
For example do you wan't a plan on how to make a move?


Cheers.

Sho Nuff

I dont claim to be an expert on women. I got a late start but learned a lot in a short period of time, mostly by trial and error. My advice to you is to just go for it. You are in college. This is the time where you either refine your skill with women or doom yourself to ineptitude for years to come.

But you have a decision to make. Some men want to find 1 good woman from and early age. If this is you then my advice is to put sex completely out of your mind. Dont act like you dont want it, train yourself to not think about it in her pressence.
I am assuming from your post that you are relatively inexperienced, nervous and the average sexually frustrated college male so this may be a difficult task. But I am sure that she can smell it on you and it is a turn off to most women. Just be cool, and enjoy yourself. Dont think about what she wants too much. Dont try to be the prefect man for her. Instead enjoy yourself as much as you can in her company and she will do the same. If you are comfortable and having fun in here pressence, she will sense that and it will attract her.

Other men though want to get laid...a lot. The game is completely different for that guy. I dont think thats what you want, but if it is, read this

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...ight=girls+101

__________________
I know Nietzsche doesnt rhyme with peachy, but you sound like a pretentious prick when you correct me.

Mantus

I don't think this works. I tried it and it led to a whole lot of girl-Friends and very few lovers. I think it's dishonest and the guy wont be fooling anyone.


Whatever happened to Plan9?

drainpipe

Sex definitely isn't on the immediate agenda, so that's fine. I typically do not fantasize about having sex with a girl that I like, but rather with other random girls whenever I do.

I also didn't give very accurate information in the first post. My school starts rather late in the year so I've only known her for about 2 months, and we only hang out once or twice a week because of our busy workload. Most other times we just chat through IM.

I'm debating whether or not I should try to get a kiss from her. If the opportunity arises, I guess I'll take a shot.

match000

why don't you try Plan9's (ie the playa's) kiss test

Dragonknight

Take you time with this, be patient. Two months you say, then you should be good with a kiss. Don't plan some makeout session, but a solid kiss sounds doable. Don't make your first attempt at a kiss at your house though you might spook her. You don't want her to think you expect more since you are at your place. Try the good bye kiss, it's easy and in the perfect situation where she doesn't feel like your expecting more. Hell you could even ask her if you could give her a kiss good bye and see how she takes it. Don't be afraid to talk to her about it though, talking makes things easier. Good luck with this.

__________________
Freedom is NOT Free.

Hektore

By far the best advice I've ever recieved about this situation: If you never try to kiss her, you never get to kiss her.

//edit: If you do go for it, let us know how it turns out?

__________________
The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

Mantus

So people are telling drainpipe to take his time.

I disagree. I think that two months is MORE then enough. As a rule, I think the first kiss should come within the first two dates. Lets not try and fool ourselves here. We are talking about intimate relationships here arn't we? Or are we looking to building a friendship here? Friendship and lust are NOT synonymous. One can exist without the other. Thus one must adress both of them as seperate issues.

- What are you debating?
- Don't look for opportunities, make them.
- are you attracted to this woman or not?

genuinegirly

Sounds like you are spending too much time talking to her friends and not enough time talking to her about what she wants. Sounds like you're pretty comfortable with her. Don't want her to think you're not really interested, just because you waited a little too long. College sophmore doesn't exactly sound like you're ready to settle down into something serious either. Ask her what her take on kissing is. For some people, it's a serious commitment. For others, it's the candy that they'd rather not do without. See where she stands on kissing and premarital sex. See if her ideals match up with yours, if they don't, don't pressure her to change.

Good luck! Want to hear updates.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

SERPENT7

drainpipe,
"...she does not want to be in a serious relationship right now ..."
I'm not sure what the problem is. She is reciprocating and all is well. So what Genuinegirly said is right on the monkey.
Or is the issue that you have not yet seperated the deed from the emotion? Sex does not equal marriage, ya know!

match000

So are you saying that premarital sex can come even if you're not in a committed gf-bf relationship? I'm talking about the usual case, because of course exceptions exist.

drainpipe

I think I'll wait for the goodbye kiss as Dragonknight said because I'd really be at a lost as to what I would do afterwards. It'll provide a good escape route.

I am very bad at being forward with girls so I never talk about sex and relationship stuff with them.

I'm a virgin so I'm not that willing to dive right into sex. At least not until I'm comfortable enough. Amy's also a little shy so I'm not sure how willing she would be, either.

I am definitely attracted to Amy. I also realize that, because I'm rather shy and very inexperienced, I have a tendency to idealize girls, so I'm actively trying to not do that.

More relevant information I should have included in the first post: I had a big lack of self-esteem in high school so I have never had a girlfriend. I'm largely over it, but it definitely still affects me in ways today.

genuinegirly

Good thinking. Keep it light. Go for a peck on the lips if you must, but I'd recommend a peck on the cheek. Way less intimidating for her, and not a bad place to start.

This is a very bad habit to be in. If over time this turns into a relationship, make sure you work on talking about these things. Take a look at this thread:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=94862

Even if you're not sexually active, it is an excellent thread regarding communication. Keep an eye out for beejay's comment about divorce.
Remember: communication isn't about being forward. It's about understanding one another.

Congrats on making it to college and still being a virgin! It's admirable. Hey, jumping into sex is not for everyone. In fact, it's healthier if you don't even think about sex for a while. It tends to muck things up. Somehow I got the impression that you wanted some, I apologise for the misunderstanding. Definitely don't make things uncomfortable for yourself or for her by suggesting you're interested. Still, as you begin kissing it is very important to know where one another stand on sex, so you don't accidentally push one another past the comfort zone. If she's shy, it may be difficult for her to say "no", even to something as basic as a good solid kiss on the lips.

Yah! Keep it up. Get to know her for herself. Find activities to do together that would allow her (and you) to open up and show yourselves. Plant a tree, plan a party together... whatever you enjoy. You want to get past the shyness so you're comfrotable. Good, solid friendship seems to be the direction you're headed. And maybe a few kisses in there on the side? Whatever... just remember, idealizing her isn't going to help you get to know and love her for her.

awwwwww a true shy guy. Of course it still affects you. Just keep working through it. You have us here to cheer you on.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Mantus

Most relationshps start with some sexual energy but it dissipates over time unless the fire is kept burning. Well, atleast for girls it does.

Drainpipe gave us some great info in his last post.

If there have been no attempts at intimacy (sex talk, touching, closeness) then it might take more then a goodnight peck to get this relationship off the ground.

I gota go to work, I'll give this some thought over the day. I wish for more input and ideas on this situation from other members on the forum as well.

[update]Some more thoughts,
genuinegirly mentions that this girl might wan't things to go slow. I would guess that from her statement of not wanting a serious relationship that she is not all that "uptight".

Cheers.

SERPENT7

DP,
In our modern consumer-based society many of your so-called peers will tell you 'sex is where it is at.' It isn't. It is fun, but you are in the unique position of being at the height of mystery! Enjoy it while it lasts! The unknown is the best part right now. (Why do you think space mountain is still the most popular ride at disneyland/world?)
As far as being a virgin still, i was the same way as you. I didn't lose it till i was 19, and even then i wish i would have waited till i was with someone who valued me more, rather than simply getting rid of the big V.
Also, sounds like you are doing fine. Be yourself, communicate often. (But not too much! Comfort and mystery are both your friends.)

drainpipe

Update: She came over, and we watched the old Willy Wonka movie (it's her favorite movie). I put my arms around her. She wasn't particularly responsive, but she didn't seem to recoil, either. When she left, I thought about giving her a goodbye kiss, but completely chickened out and am now mentally kicking myself.

Mantus

OKay! So you are thinking along those lines
We can help, we can give you some tips. When I get back tonight I'll type something up for you. Actually, I already have half of it done. Till later.