Sleepyjack

Whenever i heard this term, i always thought (intuitivley, as an educated guess) that it was some condition in which one guy envies another guy, cause he's dick is bigger or maybe he gets the girl or something.... Or in a more metaphorical sense, when a guy feels envious of another guy about his metaphorical penis extension, in which he may get a faster car, faster computer..or faster, bigger, better or more of something else which is meant to be a symbol or extension of his penis or manhood

Anyway, rambling aside, i found a definition in some dictinary about it, and it's as follows:
The psychoanalytic concept in which a female envies male characteristics or capabilities, especially the possession of a penis.

I thought this was rather laughable and also absurd. I am rather naive and ignorant of the whole psychanalytical dealy but was wondernig if this sorta stuff still holds up today, in any or much capacity?

Also, aside from the Oedipus (sp?) complex, in general, what other ideas/observations did Freud have?

Stiltzkin

Umm... actually I know a girl who has had *major* penis envy for years. She's not a very happy person at all. She's also extremely attractive, which makes it seem all the more bizarre and ironic, but I digress from that. *sigh* As for what other ideas Freud has, I don't know. I do know that such a thing does exist, though--penis envy that is. I actually went through a stage in my life when I had vagina envy, actually, as odd as that may seem. I think the idea of vagina envy ought to be taken into the same sort of light as penis envy has. I'm sure there's some clinical data out there to support this.

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wilbjammin

Penis envy is better represented as admiration of the state of masculinity. Women, esp. back then around the Victorian Era had such small statures compared to man... Where a man is represented as activity, and a woman as passivity, it is obvious why women in Freud's studies wanted to be men.

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ChrisJericho

Also, there is something to do with with men being jealous of womens' vaginas. The theme of "vagina envy" is that despite all that males can accomplish in society and athletics, they still can never bear children. Take this, along with Freud's other ideas, with a grain of salt.

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uv7piy

I think the "I Love Lucy" episode where Lucy and Ricky has to switch jobs for the day pretty much put the whole penis/vagina envy thing to rest. These days we all know that each side has major advantages and disadvantages.

platypus

If you're jealous of an accomplished keyboard player,
do you have <b>pianist envy</b>?

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lightning

This is the right direction, but it has more to do with the percieved power of masculinity.

In almost all cultures, some to an even greater extent than our own, to have a penis (be a male) is percieved as the equivalent of possessing personal and cultural power. The penis can almost be a metaphor for a scepter, or an icon of power over others.

So the theory is that, on a very basic level, women envy the power of the penis.

vveronica

Never much would call it envy.. I desire some male traits but most of those i would never call envy.. lust and desire hehehehehehe but not envy. I would not want them perminently.. Just borrow them for awhile... I mean maybe have him use those traits hehehehehe specially the long hard traits...

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Stiltzkin

As far as I've heard, most of this penis envy just comes from the fact that men can pee standing up--no joke. Being male, we probably take for granted that we can take a piss out in the wilderness and not get our socks dirty.

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MSD

Many of Freud's thoeries (lie the Oedipus complex) are dead wrong and were based mostly on his insecurities (many caused by the cat that he was bisexual, which was not very well tolerated in his time) and just don't stand the test of time. The problem with what he did get right is that he based it all on incorrect data like his theory of the Oedipus complex, and therefore the real root causes of any problem need to be determined.

ratbastid

Yeah. Freud demonstrated that it's a bad idea to look inside your head and extrapolate what you find there to all humanity.

There's a freudian gender-mirror to the Oedipus Complex, called the Electra Complex. Same story, basicaly, but with daughters and fathers.

numist

Freud was a crackpot, the theories on anal retention, Oedipus, penis envy etc.... dont even warrant my commentary...

Look up his stages of child psychosexual development... you be the judge...

lightning

Oedipus...
Fuckin' Greeks

toxic515

I've heard the term used mostly to describe the man-hating extremely butch lesbian types.. Right or wrong, that's normally what I've seen...

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tritium

I don't buy into much of Freud's psychoanalytical garbage... its an interesting thing to look at and the "science" does describe some behavior, but falls embarassingly short of describing real life.

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hobo

You know that's probably true too! That is why guys don't have to go to washrooms in pairs. No passing of squares required.

SparklingDot

*Disclaimer - The views I am about to express are the results of literary anaysis and basic psychology classes, as well as a bit of personal bias.*

-Dot


First of all, in the beginning, the way that psychologists started their careers was by psychoanalyzing themselves. And Freud was rather screwy in the head to begin with.

Secondly, the oldest psychoanalytic theories are based ONLY on observations of male subjects. Primarily because those with the necessary education were male. Secondarliy because no one cared what was wrong with women because everything was attributed to them being women and left at that.

Thirdly, the drive by version of Freud's beliefs pretty much take everything back to either sex (usually) or death.

Lastly, I think it was Freud (or one of his contemporaries) that developed the idea of the subconscious and the three parts of the mind (id, ego, and super ego).

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Litespeed

Penis envy. Funny... we were just having a conversation about this the other day.

I love the texture, I've become fascinated with its hard but still maleable form. Yeah, I've got it. Doesn't every woman?

motdakasha

In my experience, much of Freud's concepts are still very much alive today, albeit in a slightly more modern/modified version. Oedipus is still used quite often in literary analysis. Electra is less used because Freud lived in a time of overt sexism and so this theory is very much skewed.

Freud's largest contributions are his theories of developmental stages of childhood (a.k.a. psychosexual stages), defense mechanisms, and the theory of id/ego/superego.

Psychosexual stage breakdown (from my Abnormal Psych class, almost verbatim):
Oral stage (0-18 mos.) - breastfeeding, focus on mouth
Anal stage (18 mos.- 3 yrs.) - potty training, focus on anus, origin of the concept of "anal retentive"
Phallic stage (3-6 yrs.) - first stages of sexual development, focus on genitals
Latency stage (6 yrs.-Pubescence) - sexual desire diminishes, focus on development of talents and skills
Genital stage (Puberty-Adulthood) - maturation of adult sexual interests
Freud believed that all sexual deviations could be explained by analyzing how the subject was raised as a child.

Defense mechanisms: Regression, denial, displacement, rationalization, intellectualization, projection, reaction formation, identification, sublimation.

id - libido & aggressive drive
ego - filters needs of id and expresses/fulfills based on societal norms and mores
superego - the "storehouse" of societal norms and behaviors

A lot of people think Freud was just some crackpot sexist, but they don't realize that much of our everyday vocabulary stems from his theories and definitions of terms.

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Prince

The part of Europe that I am from, I was taught, in Psychology class, of Freud's observations and theories as pretty much fact. I don't know personally, I think he was a brilliant thinker, but that's as far as I'll go putting my eggs in that basket.

I've heard a lot of people say he was a pothead and full of shit. Well... Jim Morrison was definitely a pothead, and no one questions his influence on music, he's practically a music god in his own league, to some people anyway. As for being full of shit... For someone completely full of shit, Freud seems to get quoted, discussed and studied an awful lot.

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motdakasha

(agree with you)
Try finding a modern psychology textbook that doesn't mention Freud or one of his theories.

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Vaultboy

Actually so can women. In fact, there's no physical reason why a woman cant pee standing up at a urinal. (There are lots of social ones, though)

http://www.restrooms.org/standing.html

Showed this to an ex of mine (when we were still dating). She tried it. Said it works. I would have liked to see it, tho. Purely in the scientific spirit of things. not because I dig watersports.

Why dont someone here try it and tell the forum how it went?

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Parkhurst

That's actually where I've heard this one most times. Although a friend of mine reckons that it's bull, they just wish they had fatter fingers. (No flames please, I’m joking.)

On the subject of Freud I do think that he was quite revolutionary in some of his ideas. The acknowledgement of the subconscious was worthy of note; it especially seems to come up in literature.

A small section of a course that I did on psychology looked at his ideas, but when I studied psychology at university he only ever got a smirking reference by some of my lecturers.

I seem to remember thinking when I did study him that while he failed to provide a model for the general populace, he may well have given the correct analysis of himself. Just a thought though, I never got a chance to take it into any further study.

Keelzeq

This topic brought about one particular memory I have. A former girlfriend and I were nearing the end of a relationship and we were discussing how well one another would get along in the world alone; dealing with pre-seperation anxieties.

Durring the conversation she said; "I won't have any problems finding a man I am afterall female, and most men only want one thing.". It was at this moment that I realised not only was I with the wrong person but also that she was right. Most women do not have problems finding new relationships. Most men, in my experience, are attracted to women initially for sexual reasons, and because of depravity will advance a relationship with a woman who is willing before considering the more diverse issues within a relationship. By relationship I mean anything from just casual sex to a lasting partnership.

From then on I admit to having some form of "vagina engy". As a man I know my boundaries in the courtship arena, or at least I practice some form of reservations. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is much more difficult for me as a man to find a quality relationship than it is for a woman of equal stature, and I often ask myself "why is it harder?". My answer thus far has been; I am male.

KeelzEQ

motdakasha

Old link. It works.

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Just Google It.
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