Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Sexuality


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-07-2004, 11:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
Fast'n'Bulbous
 
Location: Australia, Perth
Penis Envy

Whenever i heard this term, i always thought (intuitivley, as an educated guess) that it was some condition in which one guy envies another guy, cause he's dick is bigger or maybe he gets the girl or something.... Or in a more metaphorical sense, when a guy feels envious of another guy about his metaphorical penis extension, in which he may get a faster car, faster computer..or faster, bigger, better or more of something else which is meant to be a symbol or extension of his penis or manhood

Anyway, rambling aside, i found a definition in some dictinary about it, and it's as follows:
The psychoanalytic concept in which a female envies male characteristics or capabilities, especially the possession of a penis.

I thought this was rather laughable and also absurd. I am rather naive and ignorant of the whole psychanalytical dealy but was wondernig if this sorta stuff still holds up today, in any or much capacity?

Also, aside from the Oedipus (sp?) complex, in general, what other ideas/observations did Freud have?
Sleepyjack is offline  
Old 01-07-2004, 11:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Stiltzkin's Avatar
 
Umm... actually I know a girl who has had *major* penis envy for years. She's not a very happy person at all. She's also extremely attractive, which makes it seem all the more bizarre and ironic, but I digress from that. *sigh* As for what other ideas Freud has, I don't know. I do know that such a thing does exist, though--penis envy that is. I actually went through a stage in my life when I had vagina envy, actually, as odd as that may seem. I think the idea of vagina envy ought to be taken into the same sort of light as penis envy has. I'm sure there's some clinical data out there to support this.
__________________
The most important thing in this world is love.

Last edited by Stiltzkin; 01-07-2004 at 11:19 PM..
Stiltzkin is offline  
Old 01-07-2004, 11:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
* * *
 
Penis envy is better represented as admiration of the state of masculinity. Women, esp. back then around the Victorian Era had such small statures compared to man... Where a man is represented as activity, and a woman as passivity, it is obvious why women in Freud's studies wanted to be men.
__________________
Innominate.
wilbjammin is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 01:46 AM   #4 (permalink)
eat more fruit
 
ChrisJericho's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle
Also, there is something to do with with men being jealous of womens' vaginas. The theme of "vagina envy" is that despite all that males can accomplish in society and athletics, they still can never bear children. Take this, along with Freud's other ideas, with a grain of salt.
__________________
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche
ChrisJericho is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 05:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
Banned
 
Location: Near NYC
I think the "I Love Lucy" episode where Lucy and Ricky has to switch jobs for the day pretty much put the whole penis/vagina envy thing to rest. These days we all know that each side has major advantages and disadvantages.
uv7piy is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 06:21 AM   #6 (permalink)
Essen meine kurze Hosen
 
Location: NY Burbs
If you're jealous of an accomplished keyboard player,
do you have <b>pianist envy</b>?
__________________
Out the 10Base-T, through the router, down the T1, over the leased line, off the bridge, past the firewall...nothing but Net.
platypus is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 07:37 AM   #7 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: Texas
Quote:
Originally posted by wilbjammin
Penis envy is better represented as admiration of the state of masculinity
This is the right direction, but it has more to do with the percieved power of masculinity.

In almost all cultures, some to an even greater extent than our own, to have a penis (be a male) is percieved as the equivalent of possessing personal and cultural power. The penis can almost be a metaphor for a scepter, or an icon of power over others.

So the theory is that, on a very basic level, women envy the power of the penis.
lightning is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 08:19 AM   #8 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Location: northern california
Never much would call it envy.. I desire some male traits but most of those i would never call envy.. lust and desire hehehehehehe but not envy. I would not want them perminently.. Just borrow them for awhile... I mean maybe have him use those traits hehehehehe specially the long hard traits...
__________________
...We find ourselves in a struggle for our very right to exsist... We will not go quietly into the night... We will not give up without a fight...
vveronica is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 09:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Stiltzkin's Avatar
 
As far as I've heard, most of this penis envy just comes from the fact that men can pee standing up--no joke. Being male, we probably take for granted that we can take a piss out in the wilderness and not get our socks dirty.
__________________
The most important thing in this world is love.
Stiltzkin is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 09:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
MSD
The sky calls to us ...
 
MSD's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: CT
Many of Freud's thoeries (lie the Oedipus complex) are dead wrong and were based mostly on his insecurities (many caused by the cat that he was bisexual, which was not very well tolerated in his time) and just don't stand the test of time. The problem with what he did get right is that he based it all on incorrect data like his theory of the Oedipus complex, and therefore the real root causes of any problem need to be determined.
MSD is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 09:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
Darth Papa
 
ratbastid's Avatar
 
Location: Yonder
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSelfDestruct
Many of Freud's thoeries (lie the Oedipus complex) are dead wrong and were based mostly on his insecurities (many caused by the cat that he was bisexual, which was not very well tolerated in his time) and just don't stand the test of time. The problem with what he did get right is that he based it all on incorrect data like his theory of the Oedipus complex, and therefore the real root causes of any problem need to be determined.
Yeah. Freud demonstrated that it's a bad idea to look inside your head and extrapolate what you find there to all humanity.

There's a freudian gender-mirror to the Oedipus Complex, called the Electra Complex. Same story, basicaly, but with daughters and fathers.
ratbastid is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 10:24 AM   #12 (permalink)
Banned
 
Location: UCSD, 510.49 miles from my love
Freud was a crackpot, the theories on anal retention, Oedipus, penis envy etc.... dont even warrant my commentary...

Look up his stages of child psychosexual development... you be the judge...
numist is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 10:48 AM   #13 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: Texas
Oedipus...
Fuckin' Greeks
lightning is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 12:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
Addict
 
Location: Texas
I've heard the term used mostly to describe the man-hating extremely butch lesbian types.. Right or wrong, that's normally what I've seen...
__________________
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies
like a banana.
toxic515 is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 12:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
Professor of Drinkology
 
I don't buy into much of Freud's psychoanalytical garbage... its an interesting thing to look at and the "science" does describe some behavior, but falls embarassingly short of describing real life.
__________________
Blah.
tritium is offline  
Old 01-08-2004, 08:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
Archangel of Change
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Stiltzkin
As far as I've heard, most of this penis envy just comes from the fact that men can pee standing up--no joke. Being male, we probably take for granted that we can take a piss out in the wilderness and not get our socks dirty.
You know that's probably true too! That is why guys don't have to go to washrooms in pairs. No passing of squares required.
hobo is offline  
Old 01-11-2004, 01:11 AM   #17 (permalink)
Insane
 
*Disclaimer - The views I am about to express are the results of literary anaysis and basic psychology classes, as well as a bit of personal bias.*

-Dot


First of all, in the beginning, the way that psychologists started their careers was by psychoanalyzing themselves. And Freud was rather screwy in the head to begin with.

Secondly, the oldest psychoanalytic theories are based ONLY on observations of male subjects. Primarily because those with the necessary education were male. Secondarliy because no one cared what was wrong with women because everything was attributed to them being women and left at that.

Thirdly, the drive by version of Freud's beliefs pretty much take everything back to either sex (usually) or death.

Lastly, I think it was Freud (or one of his contemporaries) that developed the idea of the subconscious and the three parts of the mind (id, ego, and super ego).
__________________

17 seconds is all you really need
- Smashing Pumpkins
SparklingDot is offline  
Old 01-11-2004, 02:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
Loser
 
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Penis envy. Funny... we were just having a conversation about this the other day.

I love the texture, I've become fascinated with its hard but still maleable form. Yeah, I've got it. Doesn't every woman?
Litespeed is offline  
Old 01-11-2004, 01:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
Hiya Puddin'! Miss me?
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Sleepyjack
I am rather naive and ignorant of the whole psychanalytical dealy but was wondernig if this sorta stuff still holds up today, in any or much capacity?

Also, aside from the Oedipus (sp?) complex, in general, what other ideas/observations did Freud have?
In my experience, much of Freud's concepts are still very much alive today, albeit in a slightly more modern/modified version. Oedipus is still used quite often in literary analysis. Electra is less used because Freud lived in a time of overt sexism and so this theory is very much skewed.

Freud's largest contributions are his theories of developmental stages of childhood (a.k.a. psychosexual stages), defense mechanisms, and the theory of id/ego/superego.

Psychosexual stage breakdown (from my Abnormal Psych class, almost verbatim):
Oral stage (0-18 mos.) - breastfeeding, focus on mouth
Anal stage (18 mos.- 3 yrs.) - potty training, focus on anus, origin of the concept of "anal retentive"
Phallic stage (3-6 yrs.) - first stages of sexual development, focus on genitals
Latency stage (6 yrs.-Pubescence) - sexual desire diminishes, focus on development of talents and skills
Genital stage (Puberty-Adulthood) - maturation of adult sexual interests
Freud believed that all sexual deviations could be explained by analyzing how the subject was raised as a child.

Defense mechanisms: Regression, denial, displacement, rationalization, intellectualization, projection, reaction formation, identification, sublimation.

id - libido & aggressive drive
ego - filters needs of id and expresses/fulfills based on societal norms and mores
superego - the "storehouse" of societal norms and behaviors

A lot of people think Freud was just some crackpot sexist, but they don't realize that much of our everyday vocabulary stems from his theories and definitions of terms.
__________________
=^-^= motdakasha =^-^=
Just Google It.
BA Psychology & Photography
(I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)
motdakasha is offline  
Old 01-11-2004, 05:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
/nɑndəsˈkrɪpt/
 
Prince's Avatar
 
Location: LV-426
The part of Europe that I am from, I was taught, in Psychology class, of Freud's observations and theories as pretty much fact. I don't know personally, I think he was a brilliant thinker, but that's as far as I'll go putting my eggs in that basket.

I've heard a lot of people say he was a pothead and full of shit. Well... Jim Morrison was definitely a pothead, and no one questions his influence on music, he's practically a music god in his own league, to some people anyway. As for being full of shit... For someone completely full of shit, Freud seems to get quoted, discussed and studied an awful lot.
__________________
Who is John Galt?
Prince is offline  
Old 01-12-2004, 12:06 AM   #21 (permalink)
Hiya Puddin'! Miss me?
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Prince
For someone completely full of shit, Freud seems to get quoted, discussed and studied an awful lot.
(agree with you)
Try finding a modern psychology textbook that doesn't mention Freud or one of his theories.
__________________
=^-^= motdakasha =^-^=
Just Google It.
BA Psychology & Photography
(I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)
motdakasha is offline  
Old 01-12-2004, 02:07 AM   #22 (permalink)
Addict
 
Vaultboy's Avatar
 
Location: Third World
Quote:
Originally posted by Stiltzkin
As far as I've heard, most of this penis envy just comes from the fact that men can pee standing up--no joke. Being male, we probably take for granted that we can take a piss out in the wilderness and not get our socks dirty.
Actually so can women. In fact, there's no physical reason why a woman cant pee standing up at a urinal. (There are lots of social ones, though)

http://www.restrooms.org/standing.html

Showed this to an ex of mine (when we were still dating). She tried it. Said it works. I would have liked to see it, tho. Purely in the scientific spirit of things. not because I dig watersports.

Why dont someone here try it and tell the forum how it went?
__________________
"Failing tastes of bile and dog vomit. Pity any man that gets used to that taste."
Vaultboy is offline  
Old 01-12-2004, 11:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
Upright
 
Quote:
Originally posted by toxic515
I've heard the term used mostly to describe the man-hating extremely butch lesbian types.. Right or wrong, that's normally what I've seen...
That's actually where I've heard this one most times. Although a friend of mine reckons that it's bull, they just wish they had fatter fingers. (No flames please, I’m joking.)

On the subject of Freud I do think that he was quite revolutionary in some of his ideas. The acknowledgement of the subconscious was worthy of note; it especially seems to come up in literature.

A small section of a course that I did on psychology looked at his ideas, but when I studied psychology at university he only ever got a smirking reference by some of my lecturers.

I seem to remember thinking when I did study him that while he failed to provide a model for the general populace, he may well have given the correct analysis of himself. Just a thought though, I never got a chance to take it into any further study.
Parkhurst is offline  
Old 01-12-2004, 02:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
Upright
 
This topic brought about one particular memory I have. A former girlfriend and I were nearing the end of a relationship and we were discussing how well one another would get along in the world alone; dealing with pre-seperation anxieties.

Durring the conversation she said; "I won't have any problems finding a man I am afterall female, and most men only want one thing.". It was at this moment that I realised not only was I with the wrong person but also that she was right. Most women do not have problems finding new relationships. Most men, in my experience, are attracted to women initially for sexual reasons, and because of depravity will advance a relationship with a woman who is willing before considering the more diverse issues within a relationship. By relationship I mean anything from just casual sex to a lasting partnership.

From then on I admit to having some form of "vagina engy". As a man I know my boundaries in the courtship arena, or at least I practice some form of reservations. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is much more difficult for me as a man to find a quality relationship than it is for a woman of equal stature, and I often ask myself "why is it harder?". My answer thus far has been; I am male.

KeelzEQ
Keelzeq is offline  
Old 01-12-2004, 03:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
Hiya Puddin'! Miss me?
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Vaultboy
http://www.restrooms.org/standing.html

Said it works.
Old link. It works.
__________________
=^-^= motdakasha =^-^=
Just Google It.
BA Psychology & Photography
(I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)
motdakasha is offline  
 

Tags
envy, penis

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:56 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360