Catholic Churches Say Condoms Don't Stop AIDS - BBC - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

JStrider · 10-09-2003, 06:53 PM

Catholic Churches Say Condoms Don't Stop AIDS

Quote:

Catholic Churches Say Condoms Don't Stop AIDS - BBC
Thu Oct 9,11:12 AM ET

LONDON (Reuters) - The lives of Roman Catholics in some of the countries worst hit by HIV (news - web sites)/AIDS (news - web sites) are being put at even greater risk by advice from their churches that the use of condoms does not prevent transmission of the disease, according to a British television program.

If condoms cannot be absolutely guaranteed to block sperm, they stand even less chance of stopping the much smaller virus, the churches' argument runs.

The Roman Catholic church opposes any form of artificial contraception -- particularly condoms, which it says promote promiscuity.

But the traditional opposition is now being reinforced by arguments over their efficacy.

"The moral argument against the use of condoms is being superseded by a clinical argument which is flawed," said Steve Bradshaw, reporter on the BBC Panorama program "Sex and the Holy City" that will be aired in Britain on Sunday night.

"The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon," Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, president of the Vatican (news - web sites)'s Pontifical Council for the Family, told the program.

"The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom."

He said that just as health authorities warned about dangers like tobacco, so they had an obligation to issue similar warnings about condoms.

The Archbishop of Nairobi, Raphael Ndingi Nzeki told the program: "AIDS...has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms."

While in Luak near Lake Victoria, Gordon Wambi, director of an AIDS testing center, said he had been prevented from distributing condoms because of church opposition.

Bradshaw told Reuters the program team did not go out looking for the story, but stumbled across it during research.

"We heard the same line so many times from different people in different places that we decided to approach the Vatican," he said.

The World Health Organization (news - web sites), guardian watchdog of global wellbeing, rejected the Vatican view.

"These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million," the WHO told the program.

It conceded condoms could break or be damaged and permit passage of semen, but said they reduced the risk of infection by 90 percent and were certainly secure enough to prevent passage of the virus if not torn.

Panorama said scientific research had found intact condoms were impermeable to particles as small as sexually transmitted infection pathogens -- a view rejected by Trujillo.

"They are wrong about that...this is an easily recognizable fact," he told the program.

From Nicaragua to Kenya and the Philippines, the Panorama team found the same tale from the Catholic church -- that condoms can kill.

No official comment from the Vatican was immediately available on Thursday.

I find this incredibly stupid... The church is basically saying that condoms lead to aids...

Its the church letting its faith/beliefs get in the way of common sense...

TinniT · 10-09-2003, 07:29 PM

Quote:

I find this incredibly stupid... The church is basically saying that condoms lead to aids...

Its the church letting its faith/beliefs get in the way of common sense...

Does this really surprise you?

prince_albert · 10-09-2003, 07:58 PM

If there was a God the first people that would be sent to hell are the clergy

juanvaldes · 10-09-2003, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TinniT
Does this really surprise you?

It shouldn't, but it does sadden me. AIDS is a serious problem and the Church is not helping any.

tritium · 10-09-2003, 09:43 PM

Well, condoms do not automatically exclude AIDS-infection from the realm of possibility when having sex outside of wedlock (even inside wedlock in a Las Vegas sort of way). Keep in mind that when the Roman Catholic chuch speaks, they are not addressing only first-world, scientifically minded individuals, but are in fact addressing a population spanning all the continents. It is these third-world countries (particularly those in Africa) that must be educated, by whatever means necessary, that condoms are not a 100% guarantee against HIV -- keep in mind that these nations are also heavily fortified in false information and legend/myth (eg., if you have sex with a virgin, your AIDS/HIV will be cured.)

The church likely did not have western culture in mind when they wrote the aforementioned article as the primary audience. The bottom line message from the Vatican on the issue is: Don't use condoms and expect 100% protection -- even American Sex-Ed books will tell you that! I don't read the article above to indicate that the church is saying _don't_ use the implements (even if that is component of existing rhetoric); but instead, it asks individuals to be mindful of the entire risk horizon and note "holes" (pun intended) in their defense.

tritium · 10-09-2003, 09:48 PM

Not to slam BBC reporting, but keep in mind that the author of your article is probably the product of a protestant, Anglican upbringing and is subject to the mindset thereof. As a result, we lack substantial quotes from the Catholic announcement and rely heavily on the author's shaded analysis of the situation. Just my two pennies on the article...

Litespeed · 10-09-2003, 10:12 PM

tritium, i'm with you.

anyone ever taken a rhetoric class? you've gotta be able to see how this reporter is manipulating the statements made by the catholic church.

Dnz · 10-09-2003, 10:56 PM

Religion does something dumb again.

What else is new?

Being an atheist RULES! heheh

sigma1042 · 10-10-2003, 11:39 AM

the catholic church is a joke

the people that are getting aids are not those responsible enough to wear rubbers

i have very little pity for those with aids anymore (except the children)

erion · 10-10-2003, 11:47 AM

It isn't religion per se that's the problem.

It the big old Establishments that are afraid of losing their control over things and are still trying to use fear and superstition to control the masses.

In America they have a new thing that controls the masses. . .

. . . called television.

tekaweni · 10-10-2003, 12:25 PM

I dont want to offend any of you who are Catholics, so I just wont comment on this <b>stupid, irresponsible</b> statement.

JStrider · 10-10-2003, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tritium
I don't read the article above to indicate that the church is saying _don't_ use the implements (even if that is component of existing rhetoric); but instead, it asks individuals to be mindful of the entire risk horizon and note "holes" (pun intended) in their defense.

ok what about this

Quote:

While in Luak near Lake Victoria, Gordon Wambi, director of an AIDS testing center, said he had been prevented from distributing condoms because of church opposition.

preventing a clinic from distributing condoms altogether sounds like the church is saying " _don't_ use the implements"

skysooner · 10-10-2003, 12:44 PM

This is absolutely asinine.

blade02 · 10-10-2003, 01:44 PM

first of all, I think if you have to worry about getting AIDS/HIV from your partner, then maybe you shouldnt be having sex with them. Now I'd definetly use one for a one night stand or something, but for anything more than that, I think its better to both get tested, that way you know you're using the condom for birth control instead of keeping you from dying. So if i was addressing the masses in African, then its probably correct to tell them that condoms dont stop aids.

Arc101 · 10-10-2003, 02:10 PM

I hope you would agree that condoms help prevent Aids. They are not 100% proof, but it is a lot safer than not using them. The Church is still stuck in the middle ages on a number of issues, this being one of them.

blade02 · 10-10-2003, 03:04 PM

Oh I definetly agree that a condom is alot safer. And with people you dont know...its the only way to go. Im just saying its safer in general if you're with a person you know is clean.

dnd · 10-11-2003, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tritium
Not to slam BBC reporting, but keep in mind that the author of your article is probably the product of a protestant, Anglican upbringing and is subject to the mindset thereof. As a result, we lack substantial quotes from the Catholic announcement and rely heavily on the author's shaded analysis of the situation. Just my two pennies on the article...

The BBC is totally against misrepresenting the facts, its funding is from tv license fee which every tv owner "must" pay in england. Its aim is to provide the news with no bias, although occasionally there is some present. But in this situation i don't think they are misrepresenting the facts. it does sound something like the catholic church come out with.
Crazy for them to suggest that condoms have caused an increase in HIV and Aids, what about Africa where you're pretty much guarenteed to have contract or be born with aids? theres no sign of condoms there.

motdakasha · 10-12-2003, 12:09 PM

Kind of related....
My friends and I went to the Oktoberfest this weekend and one of them found the best bumper sticker ever. It reads:
"Just say NO to sex with Pro-Lifers"

And I bought the one that says: "STOP BREEDING"

10-09-2003, 09:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
tritium Professor of Drinkology	Well, condoms do not automatically exclude AIDS-infection from the realm of possibility when having sex outside of wedlock (even inside wedlock in a Las Vegas sort of way). Keep in mind that when the Roman Catholic chuch speaks, they are not addressing only first-world, scientifically minded individuals, but are in fact addressing a population spanning all the continents. It is these third-world countries (particularly those in Africa) that must be educated, by whatever means necessary, that condoms are not a 100% guarantee against HIV -- keep in mind that these nations are also heavily fortified in false information and legend/myth (eg., if you have sex with a virgin, your AIDS/HIV will be cured.) The church likely did not have western culture in mind when they wrote the aforementioned article as the primary audience. The bottom line message from the Vatican on the issue is: Don't use condoms and expect 100% protection -- even American Sex-Ed books will tell you that! I don't read the article above to indicate that the church is saying _don't_ use the implements (even if that is component of existing rhetoric); but instead, it asks individuals to be mindful of the entire risk horizon and note "holes" (pun intended) in their defense. __________________ Blah. Last edited by tritium; 10-09-2003 at 09:46 PM..

10-09-2003, 09:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
tritium Professor of Drinkology	Not to slam BBC reporting, but keep in mind that the author of your article is probably the product of a protestant, Anglican upbringing and is subject to the mindset thereof. As a result, we lack substantial quotes from the Catholic announcement and rely heavily on the author's shaded analysis of the situation. Just my two pennies on the article... __________________ Blah.

10-10-2003, 11:39 AM	#9 (permalink)
sigma1042 Crazy	the catholic church is a joke the people that are getting aids are not those responsible enough to wear rubbers i have very little pity for those with aids anymore (except the children) __________________ [Arthur] HA HA HA HA, It's a little joke![/Arthur]

10-10-2003, 12:25 PM	#11 (permalink)
tekaweni It wasnt me Location: Scotland	I dont want to offend any of you who are Catholics, so I just wont comment on this <b>stupid, irresponsible</b> statement. __________________ If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten

10-12-2003, 12:09 PM	#18 (permalink)
motdakasha Hiya Puddin'! Miss me? Location: Silicon Valley, CA	Kind of related.... My friends and I went to the Oktoberfest this weekend and one of them found the best bumper sticker ever. It reads: "Just say NO to sex with Pro-Lifers" And I bought the one that says: "STOP BREEDING" __________________ =^-^= motdakasha =^-^= Just Google It. BA Psychology & Photography (I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.) Last edited by motdakasha; 10-12-2003 at 12:13 PM..

10-09-2003, 07:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
prince_albert Banned Location: Bradford, UK	If there was a God the first people that would be sent to hell are the clergy

10-09-2003, 10:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
Litespeed Loser Location: Thousand Oaks, CA	tritium, i'm with you. anyone ever taken a rhetoric class? you've gotta be able to see how this reporter is manipulating the statements made by the catholic church.

10-09-2003, 10:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dnz Tilted	Religion does something dumb again. What else is new? Being an atheist RULES! heheh

10-10-2003, 11:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
erion Psycho	It isn't religion per se that's the problem. It the big old Establishments that are afraid of losing their control over things and are still trying to use fear and superstition to control the masses. In America they have a new thing that controls the masses. . . . . . called television.

10-10-2003, 12:44 PM	#13 (permalink)
skysooner Registered User Location: Oklahoma	This is absolutely asinine.

10-10-2003, 01:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
blade02 Insane	first of all, I think if you have to worry about getting AIDS/HIV from your partner, then maybe you shouldnt be having sex with them. Now I'd definetly use one for a one night stand or something, but for anything more than that, I think its better to both get tested, that way you know you're using the condom for birth control instead of keeping you from dying. So if i was addressing the masses in African, then its probably correct to tell them that condoms dont stop aids.

10-10-2003, 02:10 PM	#15 (permalink)
Arc101 Addict Location: Nottingham, England	I hope you would agree that condoms help prevent Aids. They are not 100% proof, but it is a lot safer than not using them. The Church is still stuck in the middle ages on a number of issues, this being one of them.

10-10-2003, 03:04 PM	#16 (permalink)
blade02 Insane	Oh I definetly agree that a condom is alot safer. And with people you dont know...its the only way to go. Im just saying its safer in general if you're with a person you know is clean.