PhD

Perhaps a better title is "being an evolutionary success".

I've thought a lot about this for a few years. The more I see, the more it seems like a viable option.
Relationships are just so dicey. I mean at least the forever together true love type. Or even the family type. I've had the rug pulled out from under me completely several times.
I did a lot of reflection, even took one of those Tony Robbins courses. With all the instability and the idea I could die any day, an idea became more attractive. I thought of what I had enjoyed most of life. Well, for one, I remember improving myself in as many areas as possible. Education, physical, as a person, etc., Everything just clicking. And I I remember falling in love, or at least having someone really like me, and having sex with them. The ultimate is when they like you enough to want you to come in them. For me, that's awesome. And from an evolutionary point of view, you are a success at continuing yourself. Even most religions put an emphasis on lineage, or at least procreation. If you have no kids you are gone. The best you can hope for is some sanitary abstract remembrance of some works you did.
But relationships are dicey. Things gp weird. People die. It's just so uncontrollable.
So to make it perfect, get out while the relationship is at a high. All there are are great memories. And no matter what happens, kids would not be alive if it weren't for their father, so there has to be at least some good feeling, and definitely significance,there.
Compare that to someone who lives by all the rules, does what they are supposed to, and gets forgotten or maligned unjustly by some twist of fate, or hit by a car or something. Nothing.
I mean, you could even try to impregnate women on different continents, to increase your evolution chances and promote world peace, at least your desire to work for other people you normally wouldn't in real life for whatever reason.
And underpinning it all would be your sex drive propelling you to greater heights of excellence and improvement in yourself so as to attract better females. Awesomeness all the way around. At least a lot better than what was happening if you didn't take this path.

I mean, ideals of success are upset so easily. In my case, my whole life growing up was centered around some stupid idea I have since found out was false. All gone. All for nothing. And I am being punished for following the truth.
But following your desires, and having kids, can’t mess with that no matter what people say.
Just look at Bob Marley, or Stevie Wonder. They have tons of kids with different women.
If I did this, no matter what else happens to me, I can’t see regretting it. That is significance, and positive it seems.
What’s the alternative – you have no kids and die. Or you have one family, and all die in a car accident?

Plan9

Interesting. Very... "get some, go again." This kinda sounds like something I might have posted in 2007.

...

Do you have a question for the TFP? This seems more like a blog post or something I might find on Reddit.

I can totally comment on the original post, but I feel like you should provide some direction for the conversation.

...

RE: OP

Well, Doc... this sentimentality assumes that the purpose of life is to have kids so you'll be remembered.

It also seems like you assume that loved ones and relatives are the only way to make your life worth anything. That's sad.

A more nihilistic approach would suggest that we aren't worth anything anyway, so why build vain shrines to dead meat?

...

I don't need to be married and have kids to feel happy or successful. I'm a proponent of the You Are What You Do school.

Marriage and kids? Pfft. Honestly, I can think of better ways to spend my time and money. Education, travel, tons of tuna.

And what's that old saying? "A hundred years from now... who'll care?"

*plays Dust in the Wind by Kansas*

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Manic_Skafe

What the hell is this about?

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Jinn

Cliff Notes:

1) I want to bang anyone I can, everywhere I can, no commitment.

2) Commitment sucks becuase things can go wrong, people die, kids you don't want happen, your spouse could cheat on you 20 years in.

3) So I think it would be better to have relentless impersonal sex with women of all colors and creeds across many continents, like [ successful celebrity]. Can you please validate me?

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

little_tippler

So in this 'sow your oats' world, what exactly do you propose women should do? Everybody's happy when you leave while the relationship is on a high? Do you know how many unhappy, possibly vindictive women you are going to leave in your wake?

I'm not sure whether to laugh or hit the back button.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Manic_Skafe

It's not like those glorified baby factories have any real dreams or aspirations. Sheesh...

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

ASU2003

I'm sure it has been done before, yet I wonder if it is better to have 1 or 2 kids you help raise and teach them how to be successful. Or is it better to spread yourself around and have the prime goal be to score as many times as possible with women who aren't on birth control. You might never see your kids again (or they could become the president and won't talk to you).

It all comes down to how you answer the question "What is the meaning of (your) life". If it is to continue your genes for the maximum number of generations having a few condoms 'break' in lots of different countries would be your best bet. Yet it is easier said then done as a male.

Plan9

I KNOW. They're just kitchen appliances that incubate future farmhands!

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Redlemon

Also posted here: sowing your wild oats - Japan Forums, but he has 78 posts on that forum.

__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.

CinnamonGirl

That's not very socially responsible, given how overpopulated the world is already. If you want to sleep around and not get into relationships, hey, I get that...just get snipped first, y'know? Even if you overlook the overpopulation thing, there's also the whole "child support" thing. Supporting ten kids with ten different mothers when you AREN'T a big rock star probably isn't all that easy.

__________________
"...for though she was ordinary, she possessed health, wit, courage, charm, and cheerfulness. But because she was not beautiful, no one ever seemed to notice these other qualities, which is so often the way of the world."


"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

Redlemon

I assume you believe that your genes will determine the fate of your offspring, and that their upbringing will have little to no effect (nature over nurture). I doubt that, but I'm not going to research it further.

You also assume that your children will appreciate growing up with no father: "And no matter what happens, kids would not be alive if it weren't for their father, so there has to be at least some good feeling, and definitely significance,there." I suspect it is much more likely that the child abandoned by hir father will have some psychological issues to deal with.

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 PM ----------

Here's the real issue. What happened?

__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.

kutulu

Are you planning on being an active part of raising those kids or are you going to be a POS deadbeat who is just fucking his brains out. If it is the later, please get a vasectomy. We have enough criminals without losers like you poisoning the gene pool.

dlish

its called Jerry Springer...

i can hear the "Jerry, Jerry" chants already


i have no idea how doing what you say is an 'evolutionary success'.

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Wes Mantooth

I guess if you have the money and time to raise dozens of kids by different women, then have it I suppose.

I can understand not wanting to settle down and all that but I can't fathom why anybody would want to drag innocent kids into the whole equation....that just seems really...sad and pointless.

__________________

curiousbear

To me it is very simple!
You are here for a brief period. But your race is here for longer period. (It is up to you what you define as your race - for me it is human). So you carry your gene as healthy as possible and pass it on to your child. This way when you wear-off you had set the life to move on... through your children. This is biology & evolution.

Culturally, I think both individually and as a society, we hit our limits. Limits in terms of success, happiness, knowledge what so ever. At times we pray for one more chance to start our life all over again! Know what? The answer to that prayer is Children. Be there for them. Help them to reach things that they go beyond our limits.

Having children is not for just being remembered. Through children we live beyond death. Your child is You. Your next revision probably with fixes, or enhanced, or advanced, or latest - what ever.

So not just seeding, there is so much protecting, nourishing, coaching and then SETTING FREE involved in it.

PhD

Yikes! A stalker! Should I leave this site?!

Manic_Skafe

No one is stalking you. I'm certain that the style in which your original post was written coupled with the amount of spam we receive around here led to a Google search of a phrase or two which revealed the link posted above.

Other than the fact that I went through your garbage this morning, it's nothing personal.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Plan9

Yeah... if he leaves it on the curb, it's fair game.

...

Is it wrong when I see the title to this thread that I immediately think of my prostate constricting in a "OH YEAH" moment?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

I held onto my wild oats, and I have them still. Is there a market value for that sort of thing?

I think the issue here---as is the issue in most discussions related to this---is striking a balance between sexual drives of a less-than-monogamous nature and the drives behind pair bonding.

If you want to bring evolutionary theory into this, the most "fit" males at this point of our evolution are those who can both make lots of babies and ensure that they reach reproductive age and ensure they are in a position secure enough to want and have their own children. Just dropping yer seeds where they may land is only half the picture, and the road to evolutionary failure is paved with dropped and neglected seeds.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

curiousbear

+1 excellent

Idyllic

O.K. I'm kinda new at this, so I'm trying to quote curious bear quoting Baraka_Guru, so just kinda go along with til I figure this out. Thanks

Awesome!!! So glad to hear real men who enjoy being real men


As for Wild Oat Boy:

Glad I'm not your lover.

Blessed I'm not your daughter.

Happy to say that's all I have to say to you.

Jinn

I really don't see anything wrong with what the OP is suggesting, at least nothing wrong enough that I'd wish him sterile.

The caveat, of course, is that he tells the women he intends to impregnate for his evolutionary success plan that his plan is precisely to do so, and that he will be leaving to spread his oats elsewhere.

It's really being too afraid to say the above that makes most people upset with your plan. If you had partners who knew your plans specifically and still consented, then live your dream, eh? The problem with this theory is not the specific details (your reproductive success is actually lessened by the plan) but more the harm you'd be causing others by not involving them in a consentual sexual situation. 'Informed consent' is about so much more than "yes, I want to have sex." If you're doing it with an ulterior motive then your partner hasn't really consented at all.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

genuinegirly

Not going to say it would work for me, but it works for some women. Cheaper and less paperwork than visiting a sperm bank.

Oh, and to the OP: Good luck finding those women.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

girldetective

Jinn said: no, the problem with this theory is that he probably wouldnt live to see his dream once enough of his partners got the skinny.

__________________
As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

curiousbear

Honestly being attracted to multiple women, the instinct to impregnate a female is a real thing.

But the whole idea of the female bearing and nursing the child makes sense with the male actively participating in protecting, coaching and raising. May be I am still from old school.

Plan9

This is more of a social construction, not based in "instinct."

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

This is arguable. There are mechanisms in our behavioural patterns (which can be deemed instinctual) that lean towards gathering resources, protecting family, and teaching youth, etc., even in males. It varies significantly male to male, yes, but it's there.

Let's not think in binary opposites: We're not monogamous, so we don't like to take care of children, only make them!

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ASU2003

CBC News - World - Nevada gives 'green light' to its first male brothel

Apply for this job. You get paid, you get to impregnate random women, what's wrong with that?

Redlemon

*waves hi* Yup, that's exactly what I was thinking. Often, when a person's first post drops in similar to this one, the OP has also posted the same essay to 15 other sites. I like to check on that. We're here to discuss things. If you don't plan to return, it's a waste of our time to respond.

Speaking of which... people have posted a LOT of questions for you in this thread. Do you plan to respond to any of them?

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

Thrombatic Pyle

I'll just settle for getting laid, thanks, that's too complicated....

blahblah454

mmmmmmmm oats.

I think I am going to go bring some to a boil and put some brown sugar and butter on them.

Oh, not those oats? What are we talking about again?

Baby factories and future farm hands? We can all use free labour, the problem is making sure that labour lives long enough without being too much of a burden while it grows into a more suitable size.


Mmmmmmm oats.

Plan9

Say, this gives me a great idea for a thread.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

PhD

Well, you know, life doesn't always play fair. So what you gonna do - roll over and die? Or get positive?
I choose the latter.
And as for all this evolution nonsense: you can debate that until you get blue in the face (or balls). Hmm, well I guess you can work for what you perceive to be the common good of all (and have others discredit it or disrespect you for it with all kinds of reasons) and some mysterious sense of "co-operative evolution" - and die alone with no one having any memory of you.
Or you can work for what you perceive to be the common good of all (and have others discredit it or disrespect you for it with all kinds of reasons) and some mysterious sense of "co-operative evolution" - and impregnate beautiful suitable mates on multiple continents to at the very least insure a physical continuance of yourself in the future; to mention nothing of how significant you would be to all involved for giving life to the children in the first place; and to have a lot of fun in the process; and fulfill all your wanton desires.
I'd rather choose the latter.

Idyllic

If men carried the child and carried the duties of "mothering", ugh, I am wasting my time on you.

I wished for you something that not only got my hand smacked (deserved) but made me feel guilty for wishing it, though, after reading more from your manifesto I would happily carry that guilt. However, since it would do me no good to be reprimanded again, I think this time I will wish for you to come back (ie. reincarnation) as a woman and to meet a lovely, caring, good man (cough BS) such as yourself to procreate with.

phd, your selfishness knows no bounds, on second thought, I wish you love, deep and wide, all consuming love that takes your breath away and wraps you in the arms of a singular woman whom will never return your emotion, hmmmm, is that what has already happened, Dr. Love?

Man up and Grow some real balls, the ones between your legs now are just spitting venom.

Alas, after thinking about what has probably driven you to feel this way I shall wish your broken heart a blessing, so I take back that she doesn't love you in return, may you find that which completes YOU so you can start thinking about others, instead of just yourself.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

PhD

Well, I guess evolution teaches and tests us all. Weather it be a predator in the jungle, a bacteria that cuts down millions, or much lower on the scale of negativity, yourself. I don't know even what I'm doing on here. The people I know who did something like this never even checked or posted on the internet.
I should take action before I die. Your negativity inflames me to action!

PhD

Plan going well!

Thanks a ton folks!

Plan9

Ultrasounds or it didn't happen.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."