Racnad

There's a thread in the ladies lounge right now where the ladies are listing them. Since I'm no lady, I'm replying here.

I occasionally saw articles like this when I was single, and what I observed was this:

No one says "muscular, cut and good looking." The closest to that anyone says is "physically fit - enjoys hiking."

No one says wealthy or high income. Many do say financially secure/independent/responsible, but these don't necessariy mean wealthy or high income.

When was single, I typically met all or most of what the women claimed to be "necessary" qualities, yet I found getting dates and relationships very difficult. But I knew of many guys who had a certain type of face and/or muscular body type, and they got dates & girlfriends relatively easily, even though they may have had few of the qualities women cite as necessary.

Can someone explain this?

soma

Guys are suckers for hot girls.
Girls are suckers for hot guys.
Is this surprising though?

__________________
Having Girl Problems?

Ustwo

I always got a kick out of the 666 rule.

At least....
Six feet tall.
Six figures.
Six inches.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Martian

Damn. I am neither six feet tall, nor do I make six figures. I wonder if one can use an excess in one of the categories to make up for a shortcoming in the others?

Seriously, I don't think it's that big a deal. I've never had issues attracting women-folk and I have neither wads of cash nor huge rippling muscles. I think it's a lot more about self-confidence and being able to demonstrate a certain level of independence. Nobody likes a coward.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

mixedmedia

All women are liars and you are everything you imagine yourself to be.

Gotta be that. What else would explain all the ugly-ass poor men getting married every day?

I've got a couple novel ideas...

Maybe the type of women you pursue (due to conditioning and social pressures) truly are interested in those qualities in men and you wouldn't give two seconds out of your day to the women who aren't.

or...

Maybe these ideal qualities that we look for in men are so difficult to find that we figure as long as we're settling we might as well settle for the rich, handsome guy.

I dunno, those are just off the top of my head and might explain your observations.

But really, rich, good-looking men aren't like weeds sprouting up everywhere. At some time you guys have to account for the fact that regular guys are hooking up all the time. Just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't necessarily correlate with some kind of insurmountable universal phenomena you that you are powerless against.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

abaya

And what type of women were they getting, btw?... I'm not talking about looks/one-night-stands, but about marriageability. Also, what age were the people involved? These things matter a great deal when making observations of dating behavior.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Racnad

No. What is surprising is that not one of the women said they wanted the guy to look hot. Although one said "James Bond appeal" and other said "sexy - however you define it," so I guess they said so indirectly.

Actually, my theory of what makes a woman attracted to a man are based on three different factors:

1) Appearance (face and physique)
2) Charisma (charm and other social skills)
3) Money/status

Yes, an excess in one can make up for a lack in another. If you are a wealthy as Bill Gates or charasmatic as Dennis Kusinich, you can have a hot spouse even if you look like Bill Gates or Deniss Kusinich. Hot looking guys hook up even if they don't have much personality, or if they're full of themselves for being good looking. And then you also hear about the very charming (and sometimes good looking) but chronically unemployed men who live off their girlfriends.

Exellent point. I'm married now, but until I met my wife at age 33, I was never in a relationship longer than two months and often went months without dating and more thasn a year or more with no sex. I could never figure out why that was since I saw myself as fitting the description of what most women claimed to want in a men. I not sure of that, since I was naturally baised in evaluating myself, but I did know for sure that I didn't have many of the faults that women most often complain about (lying, cheating, drinking too much, extreme jealiousy, controlling, financially unstable, etc.)

BTW, I'm sure you're aware that your point also applies to women who compalin that most men are only interested in young women who are skinny with big boobs.

xxxafterglow

You're a special guy.

The LL thread generally lists qualities for a long-term mate, not for initial attraction. If you still meet all/most of those requirements and are in a happy long-term relationship, woohoo!

Call me an asshole but most people on TFP are fringe weirdos (in the best way) ... hence, no generic OC-type relationships.

Yes... those guys with the same drunk frat face sure got a lot of dates.

Give me my weird/geeky/nerdy/anarchist/artist/musician/awkward/dorky/special boys any day.

Just another reiteration that there's no formula for attracting a mate... despite our efforts on this board to turn it into a science.

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Uh huh her.

Racnad

My point is that they WERE getting women who weren't what I considered the bottom of the dating barrell.

To be fair, a lot of these guys weren't good at keeping them due to various personality faults. However, looks are very important for initial attraction, and without initial attration, the qualities needed for long-term relationship success are irrelevent.

The age of these people? Under 30.

noodle

ding, ding, ding..... give that girl a prize.

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MrFriendly

I fit close to all but one of the things in that list, can I have a cookie?

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You are not a slave

noodle

Sure. Next week I'm making peppered gingersnaps and dark chocolate cherry cookies. Which would you like, dear? Each under 60 calories per cookie.

It also helps if you have some semblance of minor talent in the kitchen.

/threadjack.

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MrFriendly

I like the sound of ginger snaps

More related to the OP,

I'm starting to tire a little of the attitude around her of "women say this, but really just mean this" and then dismiss what the female members here have to say on it.

The cold truth is fellas, blokes are no better, and no worse.

__________________
You are not a slave

Martian

For a certain type of individual, it's easier to simplify classes if individuals down to a few traits or characteristics than deal with each example on an individual basis. This goes for both men (women are/want/do x y or z) and women (men are/want/do x y or z). The simple truth is that stating that some broad behaviour or characteristic is shared by the entire gender is patently absurd when it comes to these matters, but some folks simply need a way to filter, I guess.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

casual user

what girls say the want is a bunch of bullshit

i just want a nice guy, who has a sense of humor and is responsible and knows how to treat me right

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuullshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

Racnad

Hey now! Mixedmedia made an excellent point, and I acknowledge her for that.

As for the blokes being no better, while it is true that many blokes are hung up on having a hot looking woman, I think they are more honest about that point than many women.

Other problem in these discussions is that while general statements may be generally true, the exceptions to the rule tend protest loudly. Statements about women being this way or men being that way may be true 60-80 percent of the time, but the 20-40 percent will comeforward and say "that's not me." We should be able to discuss, for example, how many women like to shop for clothes and men like to watch sports on TV with the understanding that neither of these are true for all.

Infinite_Loser

I'll speak for myself here (Even though I'm sure there are other guys at least thinking the same thing), but nothing annoys me more than the "Oh, I've never done/would never do that!" attitude which some women seem to have. From the way they people portray themselves, you'd think they were saints worthy of their own religion >_>

...That is all. Carry on.

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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

Menoman

Don't think I could have said it better myself.

I think they doth protest too much =)

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pig

i find myself repeating martian again here:

confidence.

look at those vapid muscle-bound guys getting laid left and right, and i'd bet that in the situation where they met the girl, they appeared confident. take the geeky/talented/whatever guy, and i'll bet the girl interacted with him in a situation where he seemed...confident. he wasn't confident at the football game or around the pool, but get him next to a guitar or a computer or talking about comparitive religion, and he's in his element.

thus, i think you'll find that the athletic build, the money, the whatever quality-women-say-they-don't-care-about-but-really-do tend to track with a certain type of self-confidence. very rarely is a guy an emaciated world of warcraft guildmaster, with no self-esteem, and racking up chicks. but if that guy seems interesting or quirky or well, happy with himself...then he's got the old fighting chance in the dance of the mating ritual.

then you consider timing or whatnot...maybe he was confident one particular day because he'd just finished acing an exam, and he happened to be there to talk to the 'girl out of his league' and they established a rapport where he felt confident around her. that interraction, i think, can be reinforced when they hang out in the future, and she'll see something in him that other's just don't see. etc.

in the end, just be happy with yourself. rain or shine, you'll be ok...and some chick somewhere is going to wind up falling for you.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Menoman

definately true as well.

I've said it a bajillion times, confidence is what bags bitches. Arrogance works too most of the time.

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hrandani

Come on guys - really when it comes down to it, it only takes one thing to keep a woman happy.










A chocolate dick that ejaculates money. (it's a joke! don't hurt me)

mixedmedia

I said this initially as a joke, but the more I see the more it kind of makes sense. If you're going to hook up with men - being that they don't really like you and see their relations with you as nothing more than a game (a means to an end, even) then maybe the smart girls really are the ones who go for the rich, handsome guys.

Maybe I've got it all wrong.

I think I've been converted.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Ustwo

Your problem is I'm taken

Actually I've told some women I've known who were having men troubles this. You can't pick who you fall in love with, so start to hang out at the medschool instead of the clove bar.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

kutulu

I don't know, maybe because there are a lot of ugly-ass poor women for them to hook up with?

No, that can't be right because it would give the ladder theory some credibility.

Martian

Even the guy who wrote the ladder theory doesn't take it seriously...

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

kutulu

It was a joke.

mixedmedia

Oh, so I see, the Ladder 'Theory' doesn't account for ugly women at all.

It's all about rich or poor, ugly or handsome, nice or mean, etc, etc, men in pursuit of physically attractive women. It doesn't matter at all if your ugly-ass self can snag any number of less attractive women.

*edit* unnecessary

You know another thing I realized just a little while ago while I watched one of my co-workers, a man and an A-1 dickhead, tell me how 'nice' he is and I realized - I've never met a man who describes himself as 'nice' turn out to actually be nice. And I'm realizing that a lot of the problem here could obviously be one of erroneous self-image.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Menoman

The ladder theory was never 'for' ugly people. It encompasses them, but its not 'for' them.

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DaveOrion

I think the same can be said for men who say they're rich & good looking.....

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Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Ustwo

You know you want me.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

MEAD

You can't really takes what goes on in these forums to accurately reflect reality. In general, people on these boards are more mature/ open-minded.

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Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

MSD

Isn't it amazing that people don't always act the way they say they do/will? Is it that shocking that they want a whole bunch of things but will settle for just a few of the important ones?

DaveOrion

Indeed, as people grow older they often realize that members of the opposite sex aren't perfect, just as they are. They tend to concentrate on the most important factors, as they see it, in choosing a long term mate. I wouldn't say the 'settle', they just realize that most relationships involve some compromise, a little give & a little take. Sometimes its the imperfections themselves that make someone so endearing......

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Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...