The question of al-Faruq and his escape - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

host · 12-31-2005, 04:27 AM

Our government did not even advise Indonesia of the following
"development"?

Quote:

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020923/story.html
Confessions of an al-Qaeda Terrorist
American interrogators finally got to Omar al-Faruq, who detailed plans to launch a new terror spree in Southeast Asia. A TIME exclusive

By Romesh Ratnesar

Posted Sunday, Sept. 15, 2002; 2:31 p.m. EST

..........If she is to be believed, Mira, like the rest of the world, is only beginning to discover the truth about her husband. On June 5 government agents arrested al-Faruq at a mosque in nearby Bogor. Three days later, Indonesian authorities deported al-Faruq to the U.S.-held air base in Bagram, Afghanistan, where CIA investigators have been interrogating suspected members of Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda terrorist organization. But al-Faruq was no ordinary operative.

According to a secret CIA document and regional intelligence reports obtained by TIME, U.S. officials already had reason to believe al-Faruq was one of bin Laden's top representatives in Southeast Asia, responsible for coordinating the activities of the region's disparate Islamic militant groups and employing their forces to conduct terror attacks against the U.S. and its allies. According to one regional intelligence memo, the CIA had been told of al-Faruq's role by Abu Zubaydah, the highest ranking al-Qaeda official in U.S. custody and a valuable, if at times manipulative, source of intelligence on the terror network and its plans. Initially, al-Faruq was not as cooperative. Though al-Faruq was subjected to three months of psychological interrogation tactics — a U.S. counterterrorism official says they included isolation and sleep deprivation — he stayed virtually silent.

But early last week al-Faruq finally broke down. On Sept. 9, according to a secret CIA summary of the interview, al-Faruq confessed that he was, in fact, al-Qaeda's senior representative in Southeast Asia. Then came an even more shocking confession: according to the CIA document, al-Faruq said two senior al-Qaeda officials, Abu Zubaydah and Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, had ordered him to "plan large-scale attacks against U.S. interests in Indonesia, Malaysia, (the) Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Taiwan, Vietnam and Cambodia. In particular," the document continues, "(al-)Faruq prepared a plan to conduct simultaneous car/truck bomb attacks against U.S. embassies in the region to take place on or near" the first anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks. Al-Faruq said that, despite his arrest, backup operatives were in place to "assume responsibilities to carry out operations as planned." If successfully executed, such a coordinated assault could produce thousands of casualties. Fearing an attack could come at any moment, al-Faruq's interrogators relayed his revelations to the CIA's Counterterrorism Center in Langley, Va. Al-Faruq's story tracked with several recent intelligence reports from Southeast Asia about an increase in suspicious activities near American embassies. A day later the U.S. issued its code-orange terror alert. Al-Faruq's threatened attacks never occurred. ..............

Now, three years later, and four months after Farouk's miraculous escape, we "learn" the following:

Quote:

http://www.newshounds.us/2005/11/02/...ber_2_guys.php
Whoops, I Think We Lost One Of The Number 2 Guys!

The screen flashes 'War On Terror'. A banner soon follows, 'Top Al Qaeda Operative Escapes From Prison.' That's how the story started today on Studio B with Shepard Smith. Smith said, "He's considered one of Osama Bin Laden's top lieutenants. One of the most feared terrorists in all of Southeast Asia, and he got out."

Scared yet? Wait, it gets better.

My transcript (paraphrased but pretty much verbatim):

Shepard Smith: The U.S. says he was one of four suspects who escaped from an Afghan military prison in July. (Comment: What? In July?) The officials just confirmed that he's gone. Security now ramped up across Afghanistan as the war on terror rages in Iraq. (Comment: What? It's ramped up now for an escape that happened in July?)

Smith spoke with Bret Baier at the Pentagon.

Bret Baier: Four months later we now know that an Al Qaeda big wig escaped U.S. custody. We reported back in July that four Al Qaeda suspects escaped the detention facility at Bagram Airbase. The search continued right after that escape. (Comment: Who wrote that line? The Pentagon?) U.S. officials are now saying, now confirming ,that a man named Omar al Faruq was one of the four in July. The military only released Faruq's alias as they were searching for the four escapees around Bagram.

Now Faruq is said to be one of Osama Bin Laden's top lieutenants in Southeast Asia, as you mentioned. He was captured by Indonesian authorities in 2002, was said to be planning a number of attacks against U.S. and western interests. The Indonesians then turned him over to the U.S. and he ended up at the Bagram Airbase detention facility, escaped in July.

His name surfaced last night at Fort Bliss, Texas, in the court martial of an army sergeant charged with mistreatment of detainees. The prosecution asked to have him, Faruq, as a witness. The defense said he was no longer in detention. (Comment: And this is how we found out? Why the secrecy?)

Also, about two weeks ago, now we know, Al Arabiya, the Arabic Television Network, released a video. They said that these four men on the video were said to have escaped from the detention facility at Bagram. One of the four believed to have been Faruq.

The U.S. officials now say they believe the four men are still in Afghanistan or Pakistan somewhere and still very dangerous........

Quote:

http://www.antara.co.id/en/seenws/?id=7079
Nov 06 21:32
Moslem Solidarity arns People of New Scenario in Al-Farouk Escape

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - Indonesian Moslems were warned here Sunday over a possible new scenario aimed at prolonging terrorist plans in the country now that jailed terrorist Umar Al-Farouk has escaped from Baghram prison in Afghanistan.

"We must watch out because it is possible that Al-Farouk`s escape was a new international scenario to maintain terrorism plans in Indonesia," Ahmad Sumargono, chairman of the Indonesian Moslem Solidarity Movement (GPMI), said here on Sunday.

He said the scenario could be made by people at home or abroad who were trying to prevent terrorism in Indonesia from fading away, or trying to create a bad image of Islam.

"It seems they are trying to create a cooperation network and a common target," he said, adding that the manhunt for suspects in the Bali bombing II was still continued though the suicide bombers were killed.

It is therefore reasonable to have doubts why Al-Farouk who was arrested in Bogor, West Java, in 2002, and jailed in a maximum-security prison could escape, he said.

"We are suspicious that he was intentionally released and killed, or there had been another scenario. Or Al-Farouk had been part of their intelligence network," he said............

Quote:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9938331/site/newsweek/
Qaeda Prison Break
Four Arab captives, including a top terror operative, manage to slip through three rings of security.

By Michael Hirsh
Newsweek

Nov. 14, 2005 issue - Bagram airbase is home to one of the most heavily fortified military prisons in the world. Located in the shadow of the Hindu Kush about 30 miles north of Kabul, the facility holds hundreds of alleged jihadists at the center of three tight rings of security, surrounded by U.S. and Afghan troops. To enter and leave Bagram one has to pass through a labyrinth of concrete and dirt-filled-wire barriers that are overlooked by two-story-high observation posts. The prisoners, dressed in orange jumpsuits, are kept in wire cages in the middle of an old warehouse, somewhat like Hannibal Lecter in "Silence of the Lambs." The warehouse in turn is ringed by razor wire and finally the fences and guard posts of the airbase itself.

Yet in the early morning hours of July 11, 2005, U.S. officials say, four of these brightly attired men somehow penetrated each of the three security cordons and slipped through a Soviet-era minefield just outside the base, one purposely left active. Then the escapees disappeared into the darkness, managing even to elude local Tajik villagers who are generally hostile to foreign fighters. It was, almost everyone agreed, an astonishing feat. "If this really happened as reported, it makes the Great Escape of World War II look like an Outward Bound exercise," said one U.S. defense analyst familiar with detainee operations who would speak only if he were not named.

On wanted posters that were displayed around Bagram at the time, the escapees were identified vaguely as foreigners who had come to join Al Qaeda in Afghanistan—a Kuwaiti, a Syrian, a Libyan and a Saudi. But last week Pentagon officials were forced to admit that one of the fugitives was not who they said he was. Originally identified as one Mahmoud Ahmad Mohammed of Kuwait, he was actually Omar al-Faruq, a well-known Qaeda leader in Southeast Asia who had been handed over to the Americans by Indonesian authorities in 2002. Faruq's true identity emerged after a defense lawyer at the Texas trial of a U.S. soldier accused of brutality at Bagram called Faruq as a witness—only to be told by the U.S. Army he was no longer there.

What really happened at Bagram last July? No one knows, or at least those who know aren't saying. But coming at a time when America's detention policies in the global war on terror are under fire, Faruq's disappearance raises new questions about whether a system with so little transparency, accountability and oversight can continue. Bagram is an open book compared with those secret facilities around the world that are run by the CIA but not publicly acknowledged. Anywhere from two dozen to 100 prisoners are held at these sites with no prospect of release, according to official U.S. accounts and Human Rights Watch. Even at the agency, "senior people are saying we've got to have an endgame to this," says one career CIA official who spoke on condition of anonymity. "This isn't sustainable."

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told NEWSWEEK that he was not authorized to provide any details about the escape. "Clearly it wasn't the U.S. military's finest hour," Whitman said. But he added: "This is a field facility. It isn't Rikers [Island]. This is not the first time that prisoners have escaped from military facilities in Afghanistan as well as Iraq." But few Afghans seem to believe an escape from Bagram is possible, and that has given rise to rumors about the July 11 breakout. According to one fugitive Taliban commander interviewed by a NEWSWEEK reporter last week, the four men were actually exchanged in secret for captured U.S. special-operations troops. Whitman called that account "absolutely absurd and completely untrue."..........

My 2006 New Year's resolution is to put even more effort into questioning anything and everything that the U.S. government reveals, and to look into what they aren't disclosing that we have a right to know about.

How about you?

*Mod edit: Brett Wilkes question moved here: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=99412*

Elphaba · 12-31-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

My 2006 New Year's resolution is to put even more effort into questioning anything and everything that the U.S. government reveals, and to look into what they aren't disclosing that we have a right to know about.

How about you?

Curse you and the resources you have at your fingertips.

I will do my best to rise to your challenge. Give me a few days (for you, merely minutes) to research your two questions and give my best response.

trickyy · 12-31-2005, 09:02 PM

i read the article in newsweek back in november
it's an interesting and strange set of events for sure

Elphaba · 01-01-2006, 02:04 PM

There are a few scenerios given in the content provided by Host concerning al-Faruq no longer being held in US custody.

Escape:

The Newsweek article laid out how difficult it would be for four men to escape Bagram prison. Frankly, I don't see how one man could achieve it, let alone four, but this is the current position of the US government.

Quote:

To enter and leave Bagram one has to pass through a labyrinth of concrete and dirt-filled-wire barriers that are overlooked by two-story-high observation posts. The prisoners, dressed in orange jumpsuits, are kept in wire cages in the middle of an old warehouse, somewhat like Hannibal Lecter in "Silence of the Lambs." The warehouse in turn is ringed by razor wire and finally the fences and guard posts of the airbase itself.

Yet in the early morning hours of July 11, 2005, U.S. officials say, four of these brightly attired men somehow penetrated each of the three security cordons and slipped through a Soviet-era minefield just outside the base, one purposely left active. Then the escapees disappeared into the darkness, managing even to elude local Tajik villagers who are generally hostile to foreign fighters. It was, almost everyone agreed, an astonishing feat. "If this really happened as reported, it makes the Great Escape of World War II look like an Outward Bound exercise," said one U.S. defense analyst familiar with detainee operations who would speak only if he were not named.

Prisoner Release:

If a prison escape is ruled out, then one must assume that the four were deliberately released from Bagram. The Antara article suggests these as possible reasons:

- Released and Killed. This seems implausible to me, because they knew al-Faruq's position in a'Q. I would think he would remain a valuable intel source for years to come.

- Released as part of our intelligence network. This scenerio would imply that either al-Faruq infiltrated a'Q years ago, or agreed to turn while in prison. The first seems doubtful, and the second highly unlikely.

- Released in a prisoner exchange. It was also suggested that these four were exchanged for captured special forces/agents. I believe it would need to be someone incredibly important to garner an exchange for al'Faruq, so once again, I think this is doubtful.

- Released with the purpose of sustaining terrorism in Indonesia. I will need my tinfoil hat to give some thought as to what benefit this would serve the US. I'll be back on this one.

host · 10-24-2006, 10:24 PM

In this thread:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...=1#post2142731
....Ustwo comments on his "disdain" for the "commitment" of Indonesia in it's cooperation with Mr. Bush's GWOT goals and definitions.......

Ustwo...this "story" comes from one of your own;
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...0/124459.shtml ...the site owned by L. Brent "the media is liberal biased" Bozell:

Quote:

By the NewsMax.com Staff
For the story behind the story...
Tuesday, Oct. 10, 2006 12:42 a.m. EDT

Al-Qaida Leader: Attack the White House

A man believed to be a top al Qaeda militant who escaped from a U.S. jail near Kabul was shown in a new videotape broadcast on Tuesday exhorting followers in Afghanistan to fight on until they attack the White House.

"Allah will not be pleased until we reach the rooftop of the White House," Abu Yahya al-Libi was shown telling fighters in the tape aired by the Dubai-based Al-Arabiya television.

The channel said the tape was one-hour long, showing footage of Libi urging fighters to train hard and even to try to acquire nuclear technology.

"You have to get well prepared by starting with exercise, and then you have to learn how to use technology until you are capable of nuclear weapons," he said.

Libi was shown in the footage bearded and wearing a long grey Muslim robe while standing in front of a group of fighters.

Libi is believed to be the alias of Libyan Mohammad Hassan who along with three other al Qaeda militants broke out of the U.S. jail at Bagram Air Base last year.

Analysts say he is an influential militant preacher, better known for recruiting fighters than for actual combat.

Arabiya said the authenticity of the tape could not be verified, but experts had told its bureau in Afghanistan the video was filmed in the southeast of the country.

British troops in Iraq said in September they killed one of the four al Qaeda escapees - Omar Faruq, one of Osama bin Laden's top lieutenants - in the city of Basra.

I recalled that only one "top al Qaeda militant", suspiciously escaped from a US prison in Bagram, Afghanistan, in July ,2005. Now...even though it is reported that the British killed the "top al Qaeda militant", 2005 Bagram escapee.....Omar al-Farouq (or Faruq).... here comes another one....

Seems more like the repetitive pattern of recycled US government propaganda designed to terrorize the American people, than it seems like actual reporting of real threats against targets in the US, by "real" foreign terrorists.....

.....if the threats were real, were legitimate...wouldn't our leaders be presenting the "bad guys", and the threat in a deliberate and clear way....no surprises.....like this new "replacement killer", Abu Yahya al-Libi .

You could act a bit less smug in your certainty Ustwo,,,,and patiently and repeatedly explain what is really going on in the GWOT, to the rest of us. How do you "know" that our government is "doing a better job", fighting the "terrorists", than Indonesia's government is? Didn't they capture Omar al-Farouq and then swiftly hand him over to the US CIA? Didn't al-Farouq escape while in US custody, and didn't the US then keep that development secret, even from the Indonesian officials? Do you "know" that al-Farouq was a big al-Qaida "fish" before he escaped, and a "little fish" after?

When did Abu Yahya al-Libi transform from one of "three other prisoners" who escaped from Bagram with al-Farouq, into "A man believed to be a top al Qaeda militant"? When newsmax.com said so.....or....?

I'm amused by your faith in our leaders, and your disapproval of Indonesia's efforts to combat "jihadist terrorists".....I'm also vey disturbed by it. I submit that you lack the information neccessary to make the assessments that you regularly make. I suspect that our own government is full of shit, and that there is no "terrorist threat" to the US that rises to the level of justification of accumulated expenditure of blood and money, attention and concern, that it has been receiving for the past five years. A legitimate GWOT and it's management, would not yield so little accomplisment for so much expense, after this long of a period, and the US leadership would not look so similar to pathological liars, thieves, and war criminals, as they do to a growing number of us....if this GWOT was really a long, long, war, and not a political propaganda and a wealth and resources diversion scheme......

Would we, after five years....if there were the "terrorist sleeper cells" that Mr. Bush tired to scare us with his descriptions of, after 9/11....

Quote:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0011211-6.html
President Speaks on War Effort to Citadel Cadets
We will discover and destroy sleeper cells. We will track terrorist movements, trace their communications, disrupt their funding, and take their network ...

.....be reduced to Mr. Negroponte being able to tout only one in his Feb. 2006 senate testimony...the one in Lodi, CA, that <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/enemywithin/view/">PBS Frontline soon demolished</a>? Would Mr. Mueller be reduced to saying this, in 2005?:

Quote:

http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress...ller021605.htm

......Looking ahead, there are three areas that cause us the greatest concern.

First is the threat from covert operatives who may be inside the U.S. who have the intention to facilitate or conduct an attack. Finding them is a top priority for the FBI, but it is also one of the most difficult challenges. The very nature of a covert operative -- trained to not raise suspicion and to appear benign -- is what makes their detection so difficult.

Mr. Chairman, while we are proud of our accomplishments this year and the additional insight we have gained into al-Qa'ida's activity, I remain very concerned about what we are not seeing.......

Ustwo.... you've been "had", and the hyped bullshit that you've absorbed into your thinking, provides you with "clarity" that is not contained in the messages from your president and his administration...not when the words come out of their mouths, and certainly not after they are spun into "on message" talking points. If there was substance to the "threat" that would justify a doubling of the US defense budget, thousands of US soldiers and foreing nationals killed, huge "off-budget" federal appropriations for fighting the "long war", and offenses against the US bill of rights like the Patriot Acts, and the elimination, last week, of Habeus Corpus protection for all who are accused, it would not come down to the feeble crap from Negroponte and Mueller, and the "stay the course" flip flop from Mr. Bush to disguise the failure of his unnecessary and irrelevant "side trip" into an Iraqi quagmire....

.......Bush's GWOT is pathetic in the transparency of it's actual motivation and it's failure to find Bin Laden, WMD, or domestic sleeper cells, or even to weaken the US invented bogeyman, "al Qaeda". In my frustration with this psy-op exposed as nonsense, I will continue to appeal to you to take stock at how foolish you look for buying into and promoting a "certainty" that there is any substance at all, to Mr. Bush's earlier resolve to "smoke em out", to "git em on the run".... The only ones on the run, are the declining number of folks who still react to the "fear" element of the GWOT "message". Everyone else who is still listening, is....at this late date...... only in it "for the money".

....more from the Nov. 14, 2005 Newseek article in the OP of this thread:

Quote:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9938331/site/newsweek/page/2/

....U.S. officials believe that Faruq and his three companions likely had some inside help, perhaps from local hires at the base. Two U.S. counterterrorism officials also sought to play down Faruq's importance. One official, who would speak only if he were not identified, said Faruq had been held elsewhere in the secret U.S. detention system overseas but was then transferred to Bagram, which normally houses ordinary foot soldiers in the jihadist movement.

Yet this seemed to contradict previous accounts in which Bush administration officials—before Faruq got away—emphasized his stature in Al Qaeda. "He was the top Qaeda guy in Southeast Asia," says Zachary Abuza, an expert on Asian jihadist groups at Simmons College in Boston. "He was one of first guys who was part of the CIA's rendition program," in which terror suspects are ferried abroad.

The Indonesians also believe Faruq is quite a big fish—and still very dangerous. Born in Kuwait, Faruq married into the family of a founder of Jemaah Islamiah, a regional terrorist group blamed for deadly suicide bombings on Bali in 2002 and again last month, among other terror attacks. In June 2002, Indonesian intelligence officers arrested Faruq and handed him over to U.S. officials. They have come to regret it. Because the Bush administration has viewed this as a war without traditional rules, it has largely denied Jakarta and other governments legal access to detainees like Faruq. Jakarta repeatedly requested—but never got—the right to question Faruq to support its legal case against the alleged spiritual leader of Jemaah Islamiah, Abu Bakar Bashir. Partly as a result, Indonesian prosecutors were never able to prove that Bashir headed Jemaah Islamiah, and in 2004 he was sentenced to only 30 months.

Much remains to be learned about the great escape from Bagram. But the tale may bolster the case of those who argue that handling detainees in such an extralegal, secretive way is only hurting the antiterror campaign. After a few months, most detainees are milked of all intelligence value and are useful mainly as witnesses, terror experts say. "There has got to be some resolution," says the CIA official. Omar al-Faruq, at least, may have found a way to resolve his own case.

Quote:

http://rss.msnbc.msn.com/id/9893201/from/RL.5/
U.S.: Afghan prison security tighter after escape
Alleged al-Qaida operative on the loose; Indonesian officials criticize U.S.
Updated: 9:56 a.m. CT Nov 2, 2005

KABUL, Afghanistan - Security has been tightened at the U.S. military prison in Afghanistan following the escape of a suspected al-Qaida leader, a U.S. official said Wednesday. Indonesian anti-terrorism officials accused Washington of failing to tell them of the breakout.

Omar al-Farouq, born in Kuwait to Iraqi parents, was considered one of Osama bin Laden’s top lieutenants in Southeast Asia until Indonesian authorities captured him in 2002 and turned him over to the United States.

.....Terror fears in Indonesia
An Indonesian anti-terrorism official, Maj. Gen. Ansyaad Mbai, on Wednesday sharply criticized the U.S. government for failing to inform authorities there that al-Farouq was no longer behind bars.

“We know nothing about the escape of Omar al-Farouq,” he said. “He is a dangerous terrorist for us, his escape will increase the threat of terrorism in Indonesia.

“We need to coordinate security here as soon as possible to anticipate his return,” he said. “The escape of al-Farouq could bring fresh wind to the operation of terrorism and could energize the new movement of terrorist actors in Southeast Asia and the world.”

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, asked by CNN about how the four escaped and Mbai’s comments to the AP that Indonesia was not informed, said: “I don’t know all the facts of this particular incident. Obviously, we consider this a very serious problem and one we’d have to look into the details of.”

A top security consultant in Jakarta played down concerns that al-Farouq would make his way back to Southeast Asia and rejoin Jemaah Islamiyah, the regional terrorist group linked to al-Qaida.

“He’s Iraqi after all. If he’s not hiding out (in Afghanistan or Pakistan), he’s probably headed to Iraq to join the fight there,” said Ken Conboy, who recently published a book on Jemaah Islamiyah.......

In depth background story on Omar al-Farouq's life and death:

Quote:

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NAS...=1112188062620

The dramatic story of Omar al-Farouq who escaped one of the most heavily guarded prisons on Earth to die in a hail of bullets on a visit to his sick mother.
By Justin Huggler
The Independent
(Sep 30, 2006)

Terrorist or victim?.....

Quote:

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...s&ct=clnk&cd=9
Oct 10, 3:24 PM EDT

DNA Shows Dead Man Was al-Qaida Militant

By DAVID RISING
Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- DNA tests have confirmed that a man shot to death by British forces was a leading al-Qaida militant who embarrassed the U.S. military by making an unprecedented escape from a maximum-security military prison in Afghanistan, the U.S. command said Tuesday.

Omar al-Farouq was shot and killed Sept. 25 after he opened fire on British forces during a raid on his home in Basra, 340 miles southeast of Baghdad.

British forces had said at the time that they had hoped to capture the suspect, but had returned fire on him when he started shooting at them.

"After taking photographs and gathering DNA evidence from the individual, ground forces left the suspected terrorist remains at the site," the U.S. military said. "It was later determined through DNA gathered the individual killed was Omar al-Farouq."

Al-Farouq, who allegedly led al-Qaida's Southeast Asia operations, had slipped into Iraq three months earlier, according to police. It was not known why al-Farouq fled to Iraq, but officials have said he was born in Kuwait to Iraqi parents and may have had roots in the area.

He and three other al-Qaida suspects escaped from Bagram, in central Afghanistan, in July 2005, picking locks and navigating a minefield, then evading a massive manhunt.

The escaped prisoners later appeared in a video sent to the Dubai-based television station Al-Arabiya and boasted of their feat.

The Pentagon waited until November to confirm his escape and the delay upset Indonesia, which had arrested al-Farouq in 2002 and turned him over to the United States.

Al-Farouq has been linked to thwarted plots on U.S. embassies in Southeast Asia, and is alleged to have been a key link between al-Qaida and regional terrorists.

On hearing the initial reports of his death, his Indonesia wife said she almost fainted, but then wondered if the news was true. "I still have faith he is still alive," Mira Agustina told el-Shinta radio at the time.

NCB · 10-25-2006, 03:29 AM

Host, it seems to me that his "escape" would be right up your conspiracy theory alley. Is it possible that theu let him go, claimed he escaped and then see where he leads them to, either with or without his consent? It happens all the time in the law enforcement field when they deal with low to mid level drug dealers.

The_Jazz · 10-25-2006, 05:06 AM

As I read through all of the stories linked, I kept thinking back to tactics that the Russians used for 50 years in fighting their own terrorists in the pre-Revolution days. The Russian police were masters at turning members of terrorist cells into informants through a variety of means, including torture, deportation and threats on loved ones. There's anecdotal evidence that they even recruited a young Stalin at one point. Is it so far fetched that the same tactic is being used here? By letting al-Faruq back into the world and regularly checking in with him, it might be possible to listen in to the Al-Qaieda network better than we already are. Let him run some minor plots under supervision and get as much information about what else is going on.

Personally, if I were in charge of Al-Qaeida security, I would have put a bullet in Al-Faruq's head as soon as possible. He's of no use immediately and by all accounts he broke under torture.

Seaver · 10-25-2006, 05:51 AM

Quote:

If a prison escape is ruled out, then one must assume that the four were deliberately released from Bagram. The Antara article suggests these as possible reasons:

- Released and Killed. This seems implausible to me, because they knew al-Faruq's position in a'Q. I would think he would remain a valuable intel source for years to come.

- Released as part of our intelligence network. This scenerio would imply that either al-Faruq infiltrated a'Q years ago, or agreed to turn while in prison. The first seems doubtful, and the second highly unlikely.

- Released in a prisoner exchange. It was also suggested that these four were exchanged for captured special forces/agents. I believe it would need to be someone incredibly important to garner an exchange for al'Faruq, so once again, I think this is doubtful.

- Released with the purpose of sustaining terrorism in Indonesia. I will need my tinfoil hat to give some thought as to what benefit this would serve the US. I'll be back on this one.

I was beaten to it, but I'm going with the DEA tactics. You release a big fish, and without his knowledge you track where he goes and who he talks to. He'll try to get in contact with his trusted friends, then you watch who his friends talk to, where they get their money, and where they send it.

Suddenly you have two dozen more terrorists caught, and you release another blind fish.

host · 10-25-2006, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

As I read through all of the stories linked, I kept thinking back to tactics that the Russians used for 50 years in fighting their own terrorists in the pre-Revolution days. The Russian police were masters at turning members of terrorist cells into informants through a variety of means, including torture, deportation and threats on loved ones. There's anecdotal evidence that they even recruited a young Stalin at one point. Is it so far fetched that the same tactic is being used here? By letting al-Faruq back into the world and regularly checking in with him, it might be possible to listen in to the Al-Qaieda network better than we already are. Let him run some minor plots under supervision and get as much information about what else is going on.

Personally, if I were in charge of Al-Qaeida security, I would have put a bullet in Al-Faruq's head as soon as possible. He's of no use immediately and by all accounts he broke under torture.

Your theory is as at leastas likely an explanation as Mr. Bush's reasoning, today, for why you and I differ in our thinking:

Quote:

"Reconciliation is difficult in a country that has been tortured and divided by a tyrant." -GW Bush...during 10/26/06 Press Conference

You offer no reaction to my other points.....the scare-propaganda bullshit that has come from the mouths of "sleeper cells" Bush, Mueller, and Negroponte..... Negroponte was only US Ambassador to Iraq for five months, and there were no Iraqi Interior Ministry "run" death squads before his short tenure in that country....he also told the senate, last February, that the US discovered "sleeper cell" was not the harmless Pakistani ice cream truck driver Hayat, and his son, that the "cell" turned out to be comprised of....

Can I politely ask you to re-evaluate your entire view on this neocon psy-op that sucks the rights of our residents, and our treasure, from our control?

Quote:

http://alternet.org/waroniraq/43335/

....A UN human rights report released September last year held interior ministry forces responsible for an organised campaign of detentions, torture and killings. It reported that special police commando units accused of carrying out the killings were recruited from Shia Badr and Mehdi militias, and trained by U.S. forces.

Retired Col. James Steele, who served as advisor on Iraqi security forces to then U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte supervised the training of these forces.

Steele was commander of the U.S. military advisor group in El Salvador 1984-86, while Negroponte was U.S. ambassador to nearby Honduras 1981-85. Negroponte was accused of widespread human rights violations by the Honduras Commission on Human Rights in 1994. The Commission reported the torture and disappearance of at least 184 political workers.

The violations Negroponte oversaw in Honduras were carried out by operatives trained by the CIA, according to a CIA working group set up in 1996 to look into the U.S. role in Honduras.

The CIA records document that his "special intelligence units," better known as "death squads," comprised CIA-trained Honduran armed units which kidnapped, tortured and killed thousands of people suspected of supporting leftist guerrillas.

Robert Parry's new book is Secrecy & Privilege

The_Jazz · 10-25-2006, 09:26 AM

Host, I was just responding to your latest post in the thread and didn't want to rehash the other stuff. Perhaps my response was a bit of a threadjack, and I apologize if it was. Obvsiously, Mr. al-Faruq can't be used as a mole of any sort now, but his escape seems just sort of miraculous giving the security of the facility. My point was that Mr. al-Faruq might have been released as either a "blind fish" or a cooperating informant. There's historical evidence that both tactics have been used successfully in the past by various agencies.

As far as the rest of the "scare-tactic propaganda", I don't have anythoughts on that issue that are well-formed enough to share. I need more data from other sources.

Rekna · 10-25-2006, 09:45 AM

If he was released I doubt it would be for sustaining terrorism because as much as some people would like to believe terrorism is not a 1 person job. Killing 1 person will not stop terrorism. If tomorrow we got Bin Laden everything would continue as normal, sure some cells might get caught if bin laden squeels but there will always be people to replace him. No if they let him go then i'd have to believe it would be because they have a way to track him, say some sort of tracking devices put inside him or maybe they broke him so much that they want to make him a double agent (doubtful), or maybe some of the men that escaped with them are really US operatives and they want to use him to get to someone bigger. Or there is the other option that the prison officials were grossly neglagent and he escaped because of that.

10-25-2006, 05:06 AM	#7 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	As I read through all of the stories linked, I kept thinking back to tactics that the Russians used for 50 years in fighting their own terrorists in the pre-Revolution days. The Russian police were masters at turning members of terrorist cells into informants through a variety of means, including torture, deportation and threats on loved ones. There's anecdotal evidence that they even recruited a young Stalin at one point. Is it so far fetched that the same tactic is being used here? By letting al-Faruq back into the world and regularly checking in with him, it might be possible to listen in to the Al-Qaieda network better than we already are. Let him run some minor plots under supervision and get as much information about what else is going on. Personally, if I were in charge of Al-Qaeida security, I would have put a bullet in Al-Faruq's head as soon as possible. He's of no use immediately and by all accounts he broke under torture. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

10-25-2006, 09:26 AM	#10 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Host, I was just responding to your latest post in the thread and didn't want to rehash the other stuff. Perhaps my response was a bit of a threadjack, and I apologize if it was. Obvsiously, Mr. al-Faruq can't be used as a mole of any sort now, but his escape seems just sort of miraculous giving the security of the facility. My point was that Mr. al-Faruq might have been released as either a "blind fish" or a cooperating informant. There's historical evidence that both tactics have been used successfully in the past by various agencies. As far as the rest of the "scare-tactic propaganda", I don't have anythoughts on that issue that are well-formed enough to share. I need more data from other sources. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Last edited by The_Jazz; 10-25-2006 at 10:28 AM..

12-31-2005, 09:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
trickyy ►	i read the article in newsweek back in november it's an interesting and strange set of events for sure

10-25-2006, 09:45 AM	#11 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	If he was released I doubt it would be for sustaining terrorism because as much as some people would like to believe terrorism is not a 1 person job. Killing 1 person will not stop terrorism. If tomorrow we got Bin Laden everything would continue as normal, sure some cells might get caught if bin laden squeels but there will always be people to replace him. No if they let him go then i'd have to believe it would be because they have a way to track him, say some sort of tracking devices put inside him or maybe they broke him so much that they want to make him a double agent (doubtful), or maybe some of the men that escaped with them are really US operatives and they want to use him to get to someone bigger. Or there is the other option that the prison officials were grossly neglagent and he escaped because of that.