12-21-2005, 10:23 AM | #41 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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my point is that for some of the things that I'm not able to get where I currently sit, I'm willing to move to get it. Those countries you mentioned all have very high taxes levied on the peoples there.
Which is why people came to America in the first place, they thought they could get a better life here. Well, I know I have a good life here, but there are some things here that I do like and others that I don't. Some things I don't care about at all and willing to sacrifice to get some of the other things. In other words I know that I cannot have my cake and eat it to.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
12-21-2005, 10:23 AM | #42 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Sorry confused you with Willtravel. I agree that we should be number 1 at everything, but we are not. But I did not say life expectancy, infant mortality was the best in the world. We both know there are many factors other than tax dollars spent that impact the results. I know many people making 50k or more, who don't have college degrees, started at the bottom and worked their way up the ladder. Happens everyday. I worked in HR for a company with 15,000+ people, most did not have degrees and the average person was making about 40k at the time I left in '97, not including benefits. Start a survey, prove it to yourself. How do we debate, I did not see the offer. But I would love to. Bush "cut taxes", however, tax receipts are up. He cut tax rates, not taxes. Rich people are paying more, not less. If tax rates are high, rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, ask the Kennedy's about it, they are experts. People will help people and do it more effeciently than government. Government entitlement programs actually prevent people from being in control of their own lives. There is a big difference between providing a real safety net as compared to what we have today. |
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12-21-2005, 10:30 AM | #43 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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But as a percentage of income who pays more.... that's the point. I just see that the poor are paying more of what they cannot afford in taxes while the rich pay less and Bush cuts so they'll pay less..... and those cuts get passed onto states where their tax systems (sales taxes, property taxes, etc), and taxes on phones and other items where the poor end up paying more of a percentage. It's wrong. The everyone should pay the same percentage. In my perfect world we'd cut all "hidden and visible taxes" set a solid percentage rate on the income of every business and worker and tax that solely, with no deductions or loopholes... unless the worker or company make under a certain amout of money. I think that would give the freedom the right claim they want and I believe if the right percentage was found it would alleviate the deficit within a short amount of time. The cry that this would make people want to make less is B.S. I can't think of anyone that wants to make less money.... that is a hollow and stupid argument.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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12-21-2005, 10:34 AM | #44 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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my mother in law can only make X dollars a year because otherwise she looses her disability benefits and her social security pay outs. she monitors carefully to make sure she only makes to the limits.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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12-21-2005, 10:43 AM | #45 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Post 19, I offered the debate. If you agree to the rules (back up everything with reliable sourced information and no personal attacks and/or belittling the other's intelligence) we'll do it. We'll find a truly neutral Moderator and then we'll agree to format. We can have straight post for post, or make opening statements and then have the mod ask a question to which both of us get a chance to reply to... up to you, you decide the format. I've done it with others on here and it truly makes for better politics threads than the norm... at least for me.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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12-21-2005, 10:45 AM | #46 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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The disability thing I know first hand also. It is a double edged sword, it helps in some ways but is very destructive in others.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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12-21-2005, 11:06 AM | #47 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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aah gotcha.
actually I do recall a point in time where I would earn up to the edge of the tax bracket because it cut too deep because I wasn't deep enough into it that I actually took home LESS money. I turned down many jobs in my youth for that reason. What I do know now is that I should have stretched myself as much as I could have as the pain would have only been for a short period and then I'd slowly grow further into the tax bracket.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
12-22-2005, 02:28 AM | #49 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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You defend your side, I'll defend mine. Plain and simple. It may not persuade many on here, but in the past the true debates I have had with others on here has given me a better understanding of their views and I learned a few things on both sides.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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12-22-2005, 05:28 AM | #50 (permalink) |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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I propose that you gents take that to a dedicated thread, and open it with some words about this being a closed debate between two people. It would be interesting to make some rules--like, after three days a poll will be added to the thread where people can vote for who won.
It'd also be interesting to have the poll to include a "this thread changed my mind" value for the poll, so we might get a view of the flexibility of opinion on this matter. My suspicion is that opinions aren't very flexible around here. Not pointing any fingers; I'm as guilty as anyone. |
12-22-2005, 05:51 AM | #51 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Quote:
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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12-22-2005, 09:05 AM | #52 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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What I was suggesting is that government LOAN programs are actually an investment, as I had to pay back my all loans plus interest. In other words, both sides benifited from my loans. I was able to finish and get my B.A., and the government recieved back more than it lent out, much like a credit card. It's arguable that cutting governemtnt loans for education will help the government to lose money in the long run. It also helped to build my credit. The student loan program is mutually belificial for both sides, and cutting it because of irresponsible spending on a war that fewer and fewer people are tolerating is absolutely and completly wrong. We should be withdrawing our troops from every military base outside of the US, like a real republican wants. We should cut military spending overseas to ZERO (which would put at least $100 billion back in our budget, which could help save the nation from hyperinflation or bankruptcy. This is not unreasonable since the annual military budget has grown by over $100 billion from 2000 to 2003; a figure which does not include war costs in the Middle East.), and increase spending on defence. We should stop using our military to enforce our "free market" corporations who want in to Iraq. We should let a real free market let corporations compete over Iraq, and let the Corporation most willing to give to Iraq win. That would help the reconstruction a lot more than thousands of US soldiers. The war on Iraq reminds me of the producers. "We can make even more money if the war is a flop!!" |
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12-22-2005, 09:10 AM | #53 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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12-22-2005, 09:11 AM | #54 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Another possibility is: The Bush economic plan unjustly benefits the oil industry. I think this is a common belief of those on the left. |
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12-22-2005, 09:30 AM | #55 (permalink) | |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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(though I would argue it isn't just Bush and the conservatives that are guilty of this... rather it is a problem in all the West and is bipartisan in nature).
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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
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12-22-2005, 09:38 AM | #56 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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12-22-2005, 09:46 AM | #57 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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We'll find a mod that is acceptable to both of us and we'll each have an opening statement post...... no rebuttals just what you plan to discuss a discussion post a rebuttal post a questioning post where we'll have the mod ask 3 questions and we each reply and closing post overall 5 maybe 6 posts (on each topic) I think we can negotiate this, the problem maybe finding a mod that we can agree upon that will want to do it. PS.... the mod does not necessarily have to be a TFP Mod/Admin he/she can be any member agreed upon by us. If you accept the challenge we'll each make a list of possible mods and see if we have anyone on both our lists.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 12-22-2005 at 09:53 AM.. |
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12-22-2005, 10:24 AM | #59 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Quote:
Any volunteers to mod?
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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12-23-2005, 01:43 AM | #60 (permalink) | |
Cunning Runt
Location: Taking a mulligan
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Oh, and before you dredge up "deficit spending," I will let you know that I am ready to post the CBO figures that prove seven of his eight proposed budgets were balanced. Until Congress got to them. If Congress had been able to limit increases (something ustwo explained in regard to the difference between limits and "cuts") to 5% annually, at least seven of his budgets would have been balanced.
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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher |
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12-23-2005, 01:51 AM | #61 (permalink) | ||
Cunning Runt
Location: Taking a mulligan
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I can see I'm going to have to post this a lot. Link Quote:
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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher |
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crisis, fiscal |
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