GOP Sen. Santorum opposes intelligent design - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

CShine · 08-04-2005, 11:53 AM

Who woulda thunk it? Could this be the first sign of a split within the GOP over the creationist agenda of the religious right? If party leaders are going to back away from it does it have any real future?

Quote:

A leading Republican senator allied with the religious right differed on Thursday with President Bush's support for teaching an alternative to the theory of evolution known as "intelligent design."

Republican Sen. Rick Santorum, a possible 2008 presidential contender who faces a tough re-election fight next year in Pennsylvania, said intelligent design, which is backed by many religious conservatives, lacked scientific credibility and should not be taught in science classes.

Bush told reporters from Texas on Monday that "both sides" in the debate over intelligent design and evolution should be taught in schools "so people can understand what the debate is about."

"I think I would probably tailor that a little more than what the president has suggested," Santorum, the third-ranking Republican member of the U.S. Senate, told National Public Radio. "I'm not comfortable with intelligent design being taught in the science classroom."

Evangelical Christians have launched campaigns in at least 18 states to make public schools teach intelligent design alongside Charles Darwin's theory of evolution. Proponents of intelligent design argue that nature is so complex that it could not have occurred by random natural selection, as held by Darwin's 1859 theory of evolution, and so must be the work of an unnamed "intelligent cause."

Santorum is the third-ranking member of the U.S. Senate and has championed causes of the religious right including opposition to gay marriage and abortion. He is expected to face a stiff challenge from Democrat Bob Casey in his quest for re-election next year in Pennsylvania, a major battleground state in recent presidential elections.

.......

"What we should be teaching are the problems and holes -- and I think there are legitimate problems and holes -- in the theory of evolution. What we need to do is to present those fairly, from a scientific point of view," he said in the interview.

"As far as intelligent design is concerned, I really don't believe it has risen to the level of a scientific theory at this point that we would want to teach it alongside of evolution."

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...OLUTION-DC.XML

joshbaumgartner · 08-04-2005, 12:30 PM

I don't think this is so much a split in the GOP as simply a red candidate in a blue state facing a tough election deciding to present a moderate side.

Ustwo · 08-04-2005, 12:56 PM

As the only trained evolutionary biologist on TFP (as far as I know) I have very little worry about the "creationist agenda of the religious right" having an impact on anything major. Hell I was taught evolution in a Catholic highschool

joshbaumgartner · 08-04-2005, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

As the only trained evolutionary biologist on TFP (as far as I know) I have very little worry about the "creationist agenda of the religious right" having an impact on anything major. Hell I was taught evolution in a Catholic highschool

Same here.

Jocose · 08-04-2005, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshbaumgartner

I don't think this is so much a split in the GOP as simply a red candidate in a blue state facing a tough election deciding to present a moderate side.

Not to mention, that some say he is thinking about a run for President. (with his book "It Takes a Family" and this... You never know. Maybe 2012.

Locobot · 08-04-2005, 08:55 PM

How does the sometimes frothy, usually slimy, amalgam of lubricant, stray fecal matter, and ejaculate that leaks out of the receiving partner's anus after a session of anal intercourse have an opinion on Intelligent Design? That doesn't even make sense...oh...wait.

That's actually his name? That's some tough luck. This is obviously an attempt by a far-right ideologue to keep his seat in a Northern state. I suspect if reelected he'll come out saying he only opposed Intelligent Design because it tekes away classroom time from teaching strict Biblical creationism.

Prae · 08-04-2005, 11:09 PM

One of his more popular quotes:

"If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual [Gay] sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything!"

Douchebag.

On the topic of ID, I believe it is more a hypothesis or a religious belief. If you want it taught, get it done on Sunday church. If ID is going to be taught in schools, I recommend evolution be taught in church.

cyrnel · 08-04-2005, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

As the only trained evolutionary biologist on TFP (as far as I know) I have very little worry about the "creationist agenda of the religious right" having an impact on anything major.

Maybe, but the lazy really dig it. I can't tell you how inconvenient it has become at extended family gatherings when people start parroting their ID, complexity, 6-day stuff to me, who, not being formally trained, has to scrape the dust out of my brain on dating isotopes blah blah & try to explain what I haven't practiced. One might argue I should brush up or shut up, but I'd prefer if they'd just cut it out and let me enjoy polite conversation.

What happened to no politics or religion at the table?

Anyway, nice to see Santorum's support for keeping science and religion in separate beds.

Redlemon · 08-05-2005, 05:48 AM

I'm not comfortable finding myself in agreement with Santorum. I'll just chalk this one up to coincidence.

joshbaumgartner · 08-05-2005, 09:51 AM

This brings to mind Frist's flip-flop on stem cell research. A lot of Rep lawmakers really don't buy into a lot of the social-conservative right-wing agenda. They have sold it on the stump to get into Congress, but when it isn't convenient for their election strategy they drop it quickly as they really could have cared less about it in the first place. Only Rick knows his real beliefs, but he is a corporatist, and as such standing up for the right-wing platform isn't worth losing points in an election.

With Republican control of all branches of government, and a majority of state governorships and legislatures, if the Republican leadership really believed in its heart in pushing the right-wing agenda, we'd be seeing a lot more on that front than we have. Instead most of it has been for show: Schiavo case intervention which in reality did nothing for the issue, noise about a marriage amendment which has yet to see daylight, and of course a heavy dose of God language in the rhetoric. Where the Republican s have really forged forward is on the corporatist side, not the religious one.

Josh

FoolThemAll · 08-05-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prae

One of his more popular quotes:

"If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual [Gay] sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything!"

Douchebag.

I agree with him.

Of course, my corrective actions would be the opposite of his...

guy44 · 08-05-2005, 07:28 PM

Flippity-hippity-flop, you SOB:

Quote:

Due to some activity by those nutty bloggers over at (of all places) redstate.org, an item from Jon Hurdle at Reuters came to our attention earlier today about how Rick Santorum "differed Thursday with President Bush's support for teaching an alternative to the theory of evolution known as 'intelligent design.'"

The article claims Rick told National Public Radio that intelligent design lacked scientific credibility and should not be taught in science classes. This kind of surprised us -- Rick being known in the "intelligent design" community as an ally and all that. But we listened to the NPR interview and he did, in fact, say it.

"I think I would probably tailor that a little more than what the president has suggested...I'm not comfortable with intelligent design being taught in the science classroom."

I guess Rick doesn't care that this is a 180-degree turn from what he said in The Washington Times back on March 14, 2002 --

"Research has shown that the odds that even one small protein molecule has been created by chance is 1 in a billion. Thus, some larger force or intelligence, or what some call agent causation, seems like a viable cause for creating information systems such as the coding of DNA. A number of scientists contend that alternate theories regarding the origins of the human species — including that of a greater intelligence — are possible.

"Therefore, intelligent design is a legitimate scientific theory that should be taught in science classes.

"Yet, opponents of intelligent design contend that by including the theory in the new teaching standards, the separation of church and state will be weakened. This is false. Proponents of intelligent design are not trying to teach religion via science, but are trying to establish the validity of their theory as a scientific alternative to Darwinism."

That's an article he wrote, by the way, not some reporter misquoting him out of context.

He either doesn't care about this incredible flip-flop, or he hasn't yet heard of the Internet, where just about anyone can find stuff he wrote three years ago in about 30 seconds.

To read more about Santorum and the issue of "intelligent design," read the SantorumExposed.com issue page titled "Why does Rick Santorum want to leave teaching a world-class science curriculum behind?"

Senator man-on-dog is a liar AND a bastard. Must be hard to suck every moment of his life, but the man's got stamina...

http://www.santorumexposed.com/seren...Design....html

kutulu · 08-06-2005, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Hell I was taught evolution in a Catholic highschool

That's really not a big deal. On several occasions Pope John Paul stated that evolution was possible, just guided by God. If for no other reason, the Church is tired of looking like dumbasses hundreds of years later on scientific issues.

Ustwo · 08-06-2005, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

That's really not a big deal. On several occasions Pope John Paul stated that evolution was possible, just guided by God. If for no other reason, the Church is tired of looking like dumbasses hundreds of years later on scientific issues.

The whole thing isn't a big deal. Its a strawman for the left who can't give people policy reasons to vote for them, so instead create republican boogymen to vote against.

Locobot · 08-07-2005, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

As the only trained evolutionary biologist on TFP (as far as I know) I have very little worry about the "creationist agenda of the religious right" having an impact on anything major. Hell I was taught evolution in a Catholic highschool

Hmm, a claim of expertise followed by complete non sequitur...I remember you claming to be an environmental scientist in several threads on global warming where you likewise offered no evidence or argument, only dismissal. Awfully convienient for you to have such a diverse scientific background, if only you could be bothered to share some of your expertise with us, the lowly and ignorant unwashed.

meembo · 08-07-2005, 06:01 PM

You know what I hear? Finally, loud and clear? Quack, Quack! A lame duck president, and the republican candidates are slowly getting out of line with him for the 2006 and 2008 elections. It's refreshing.

Ustwo · 08-07-2005, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locobot

Hmm, a claim of expertise followed by complete non sequitur...I remember you claming to be an environmental scientist in several threads on global warming where you likewise offered no evidence or argument, only dismissal. Awfully convienient for you to have such a diverse scientific background, if only you could be bothered to share some of your expertise with us, the lowly and ignorant unwashed.

I graduated in 1992 with a degree in Ethology, Ecology, and Evolution from the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. I did a year of post grad work focusing in ecology and evolution at SIU. If you would like a copy of my diploma I'm sure I can scan it.

I also have a D.D.S. and a M.S.

I decided not to get the PhD since calling me 'doctor doctor' would be a bit much

And you most likely only remember 'dismissal' because you didn't read any of my earlier threads on global warming. There was THIS thread http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...global+warming and there was another I went into detail on as well. (You know on rereading that thread I sure was a firecracker here

)

As for the current topic it doesn’t require any scientific background information as the above posts have nothing to do with science and everything to do with politics.

TM875 · 08-09-2005, 05:08 PM

I am truly ashamed that Santorum is my senator (though I chuckle to myself every time I hear his name...thank you Dan Savage...hehe). Anyway, I think that this whole possible bid for president (which he emphatically denied...sort of. Wouldn't be the first time that he lied) is just a weak attempt at a man who knows he won't be elected back into the Senate.

Santorum is one of the most disrespected men in Pennsylvania. He's probably up there as one of the most disrespected politicians in the counrty. I hope, beyone hope, that he'll keep biting his nose off and ruin his chance for candidacy in 2008. On the other hand, it would be nice if he got the GOP ticket - there would be no chance of another Republican president.

08-04-2005, 12:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	As the only trained evolutionary biologist on TFP (as far as I know) I have very little worry about the "creationist agenda of the religious right" having an impact on anything major. Hell I was taught evolution in a Catholic highschool __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

08-05-2005, 05:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	I'm not comfortable finding myself in agreement with Santorum. I'll just chalk this one up to coincidence. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

08-07-2005, 06:01 PM	#16 (permalink)
meembo Junkie Location: Connecticut	You know what I hear? Finally, loud and clear? Quack, Quack! A lame duck president, and the republican candidates are slowly getting out of line with him for the 2006 and 2008 elections. It's refreshing. __________________ less I say, smarter I am

08-09-2005, 05:08 PM	#18 (permalink)
TM875 Addict Location: Amish-land, PA	I am truly ashamed that Santorum is my senator (though I chuckle to myself every time I hear his name...thank you Dan Savage...hehe). Anyway, I think that this whole possible bid for president (which he emphatically denied...sort of. Wouldn't be the first time that he lied) is just a weak attempt at a man who knows he won't be elected back into the Senate. Santorum is one of the most disrespected men in Pennsylvania. He's probably up there as one of the most disrespected politicians in the counrty. I hope, beyone hope, that he'll keep biting his nose off and ruin his chance for candidacy in 2008. On the other hand, it would be nice if he got the GOP ticket - there would be no chance of another Republican president. __________________ "I've made only one mistake in my life. But I made it over and over and over. That was saying 'yes' when I meant 'no'. Forgive me."

08-04-2005, 12:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
joshbaumgartner Insane	I don't think this is so much a split in the GOP as simply a red candidate in a blue state facing a tough election deciding to present a moderate side.

08-04-2005, 08:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
Locobot is awesome!	How does the sometimes frothy, usually slimy, amalgam of lubricant, stray fecal matter, and ejaculate that leaks out of the receiving partner's anus after a session of anal intercourse have an opinion on Intelligent Design? That doesn't even make sense...oh...wait. That's actually his name? That's some tough luck. This is obviously an attempt by a far-right ideologue to keep his seat in a Northern state. I suspect if reelected he'll come out saying he only opposed Intelligent Design because it tekes away classroom time from teaching strict Biblical creationism.

08-04-2005, 11:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
Prae Tilted	One of his more popular quotes: "If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual [Gay] sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything!" Douchebag. On the topic of ID, I believe it is more a hypothesis or a religious belief. If you want it taught, get it done on Sunday church. If ID is going to be taught in schools, I recommend evolution be taught in church.

08-05-2005, 09:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
joshbaumgartner Insane	This brings to mind Frist's flip-flop on stem cell research. A lot of Rep lawmakers really don't buy into a lot of the social-conservative right-wing agenda. They have sold it on the stump to get into Congress, but when it isn't convenient for their election strategy they drop it quickly as they really could have cared less about it in the first place. Only Rick knows his real beliefs, but he is a corporatist, and as such standing up for the right-wing platform isn't worth losing points in an election. With Republican control of all branches of government, and a majority of state governorships and legislatures, if the Republican leadership really believed in its heart in pushing the right-wing agenda, we'd be seeing a lot more on that front than we have. Instead most of it has been for show: Schiavo case intervention which in reality did nothing for the issue, noise about a marriage amendment which has yet to see daylight, and of course a heavy dose of God language in the rhetoric. Where the Republican s have really forged forward is on the corporatist side, not the religious one. Josh