06-12-2005, 10:28 PM | #41 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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06-12-2005, 11:16 PM | #42 (permalink) |
Junkie
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RJ Rummel, eh?
I wouldn't rely upon his conclusions. Thanks for the link though. I think we can both agree that absolutist tyrannies, be they communist, fascist, despotic or theocratic, are terrible and the source of many millions of criminal deaths. Mr Mephisto |
06-13-2005, 04:20 AM | #43 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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And no I don't equate communism with other tyrannies, as communism has proven far more deadly to its own people than any other form of government. Its like comparing the flu to the plague. Both may kill a lot of people, but which would you rather have?
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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06-13-2005, 07:05 AM | #44 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
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Oh, and for the record, I'd rather have communism over Nazism any day. Mr Mephisto |
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06-13-2005, 07:57 AM | #45 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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As for the figure, you may have never heard of it, but the people went 'somewhere'. Its something worth looking into. Edit:You may find this link interesting. http://www.unwatch.org/speeches/demcat.html
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 06-13-2005 at 08:03 AM.. |
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06-13-2005, 08:03 AM | #46 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: France
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if they had been less harsh: Germany would have not been in the same kind of economical slump, the people would have been less desperate and would not have elected Hitler as chancellor in 1933 if they had been more harsh: there wouldn't have been the possibility of the creation of a regime because of the complete deprivation of resources and money." I don't think you can make conclusions so easily... Maybe there would've been something even worse than the 3rd reich...and maybe if the course of history had been different, China would've been the equivalent of North Korea...who knows, really...
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06-13-2005, 08:13 AM | #47 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: France
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While I'm not a fan of the current applications of communism (I used to live in Miami, and I met Cubans with horrible stories, like a teacher who had spent 20 years in jail over there), I don't think they got as bad as Hitler's regime(which I think in general opinion was historically the worst regime ever).
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06-13-2005, 09:25 AM | #48 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Detroit, MI
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New York Times Streak of Page One Stories on Abu Ghraib ends at 32 Days Quote:
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06-13-2005, 11:15 AM | #49 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Powerclown - Thanks for that link, I know the left wing press is out to derail the Iraq mission, but I didn't know they were being that obvious about it.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
06-13-2005, 12:34 PM | #50 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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ah yes, ustwo, THAT would explain the number of stories about abu ghraib, wouldn't it. that and not the information about the reality of the conditions there.
clearly, it is all a function of some fifth column. do you actually believe this kind of stuff, ustwo?
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
06-13-2005, 12:47 PM | #51 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Yep.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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06-13-2005, 12:54 PM | #52 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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I believe the NYT to be right-leaning, and the LAT to be left-leaning. Time Magazine to be right-leaning, Newsweek to be left-leaning. But then again, we probably see "what we want to see".
To put it another way, sometimes people accuse them mods of being "biased" or "leaning one way or the other". So, if we think there may be a bias, we will look for "signs" to justify our suspicions. The truth, IMO, is probably somewhere in the middle. Some say the media is left-biased, some say the media is right biased. It is a black-hole argument - we can't escape it! LOL! Seriously though, whether or not the media is biased one way or another is an irreconciliable debate (for the moment). Concerning this thread, ther are plenty of media articles illustrating both the positive and the negative sides. Cheers!
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06-14-2005, 12:53 AM | #53 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
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I think this reasoning to be horrilbly flawed, and also rediculous. Using this "logic", there is nobody in the world with any moral ground whatsoever. All peoples have at one time or another committed acts which may be considered human right violations. Quote:
Last edited by alansmithee; 06-14-2005 at 12:59 AM.. |
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06-14-2005, 03:11 AM | #54 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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Right. It's got nothing to do with large multi-nationals. Mr Mephisto |
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06-14-2005, 06:59 AM | #55 (permalink) |
Tilted
Location: United States, East Coast, New Jersey
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I just became physically ill when I read about china. I mean I have actually have been overcome with nauesea.
I know I am one of the americans that live in a bubble. I live in a bubble because I don't how how to deal with something that I can't exert my single will and affect.
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Life is meaningless. How awesome is that? Rock On! Now I can do whatever the hell I want and give my own life meaning to myself. |
06-30-2005, 08:42 PM | #56 (permalink) | |
Cunning Runt
Location: Taking a mulligan
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Maybe that's where we could release all of the prisoners currently held at Guantanamo. They'd have blown up all of those vans in a week. |
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06-30-2005, 09:15 PM | #57 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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07-01-2005, 05:43 AM | #58 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Some place windy
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07-01-2005, 06:11 AM | #59 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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07-01-2005, 06:30 AM | #60 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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i always find the equation of capitalism with political freedom to be amusing.
particularly if you actually take seriously anything alansmithee just said--which is a nice summary of what you would read about in almost any introduction to capitalist ideology textbook. his post provides a nice snapshot of the central argument against any possible equation of capitalist modes of production and any particular legal or political regime. left to themselves, captialist firms will reinvent the bottom in terms of wages, in terms of quality of life, in terms of social stability (if you view your workers as interchangeable extensions of the machinery they run, what do you care about social reproduction--fact is, you dont--this despite it being self-defeating in the longer run--but in the contemporary capitalist context, there need be no longer run at the level of production--relocate whewn shit gets ugly. no problem. profits uber alles.) china has had among the fastest growing capitalist economies in the world for the past 15 years or so. production facilities are located there in huge numbers--apparently, it is ok for these firms to see in political repression--opposition to union activity for example--a kind of externalization of costs. and apparently alansmithee would be able to do nothing but justify this position. capitalism is not a liberating force--was never, never will be. it is a system of economic activity that assumes human being can be treated like things and that freedom is something top be bought by holders of capital. it is a revolutionary force--marx was right about that--and one of the explanations for the rise of the modern nation-state is as a political formation set up to mitigate the destruction visited upon regions that are integrated into this system.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
07-01-2005, 06:41 AM | #61 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Some place windy
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Second, I think that the ability to perform an act because of an absence of laws to the contrary, does not necessarily make that act a right. Third, could you clarify a few things? If there are no existing laws governing whatever morally reprehensible act they want to commit, they are free to do so? It was legal for German companies to use slave labor during Nazi rule. So, it was fine for the companies to do so because they have no moral responsibility? I disagree, but this is your position, correct? What if the government is unable limit those acts despite laws (inadequate enforcement)? If a corportations only motive should be profit, are they within their "rights" to perform those acts? Because corporations are made up of people, people make the decisions, etc., does the same logic apply to people? (If there are no laws governing an act, you have a "right" to commit that act?) |
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07-01-2005, 07:56 AM | #62 (permalink) | ||||
Junkie
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A corporation does have people in charge, true. But it is something entirely separate from the people in charge of it. Now, the people themselves might balk at doing something that is legal but immoral, but then that employee is not doing his job properly. And if there is no laws governing an act, people/corporations/whatever certainly do have a right to do it. |
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07-01-2005, 08:26 AM | #63 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Some place windy
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I shouldn't be able to inflict unreasonable costs on you regardless of the legality. I want to use the term "natural law" because that's what it seems like - a violation of natural law. I'm hesitant to do so because: 1) natural law may be to take inflict costs on others and reap benefits; and 2) just because something is natural doesn't make it right. I suppose laws are created based on moral consensus. That moral consensus is composed of different individuals' personal morality. I also suppose that in the absence of law, personal morality (or personal whim), does dictate what is a right and what is not. Personal morality is a murky topic for discusion, but I suppose that is what this interaction boils down to... |
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human, rights, violations |
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