Australia donates $1Billion to Indonesia - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mephisto2 · 01-06-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

1bn aid to Indonesia wins universal praise
By Mark Metherell and Aban Contractor
January 7, 2005

The Prime Minister's $1 billion assistance plan for Indonesia has drawn praise from even the most trenchant critics of the Federal Government's aid effort.

The contribution, which more than doubles Australia's existing aid to Indonesia, includes an unprecedented partnership scheme that will involve equal and direct co-ordination by senior ministers of both governments over at least the next five years.

The $1 billion in assistance over that period will cover current emergency military, medical and civilian aid as well as budget for hundreds of millions of dollars to be spent on reconstruction and scholarship programs to train engineers, health professionals and administrators.

Half of the aid money will finance interest-free loans for big infrastructure rebuilding projects. The loans will be for up to 40 years, with repayments not required for 10 years.

In an initiative to underpin a bipartisan approach, the aid scheme will be overseen by a joint commission with both countries' leaderships having an equal say on priorities.

The Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer, said last night the new approach was preferable to merely handing $1 billion to "someone else".

The Prime Minister, John Howard, said the partnership reflected "the increasingly close relationship" between Australia and Indonesia.

The Opposition, which has criticised the Government's aid policies and its handling of the relationship with Indonesia, applauded the size and strength of the plan.

"This provides the best platform yet in drawing a line over the past and building a new relationship between Canberra and Jakarta," Labor's foreign spokesman, Kevin Rudd, said.

While Labor still wanted to see the detail of the aid plan, Mr Rudd said the $1 billion scheme was "the best thing the Howard Government has done" for Indonesia.

The Australian Council for International Development, which has been a frequent critic of government aid policies, hailed the Government's contribution as "decisive and generous".

The council, formerly the Australian Council for Overseas Aid, represents the main non-government aid organisations. It has previously attacked both Coalition and Labor governments over the steady decline in real terms of Australia's foreign aid commitments.

The council's executive director, Graham Tupper, said yesterday it was important that the new assistance would be provided over five years, "ensuring significant and predictable resources for medium-term reconstruction and poverty alleviation beyond the immediate relief needs".

The proposal for a joint commission to oversee the aid, Mr Tupper said, would speed things up, getting help to those needing it quicker than the existing aid processes, which often involved lengthy negotiations between two countries.

"This is something we have not seen from Australia before," he said. "It should put in place a good model for future co-operation.

"The other unique feature is the very high level of political engagement, [involving] heads of government."

Mr Tupper said the contribution reflected the sentiments of the Australian people, with the community having donated more than $110 million to non-government aid agencies.

He also urged the Government to consider international initiatives to relieve foreign debts on countries like Indonesia.

Mr Howard has not embraced that idea, on the grounds it is a policy unlikely to directly benefit those most in need in tsunami-affected countries.
Five-year commitment

GRANT AID: $500 million for urgent work, including:

- Small-scale reconstruction of infrastructure in tsunami-hit areas;

- A "large" scholarships program for engineering, health and public administration trainees;

- Existing and planned emergency help comprising about 900 defence personnel and a navy support ship, seven large military aircraft, four helicopters, a water purifying plant, a field hospital, medical teams and emergency shelter.

LOANS: $500 million in interest-free loans for up to 40 years with no repayment of principal for 10 years to finance the rebuilding of major infrastructure.

PARTNERSHIP: an Indonesian-Australian joint commission to develop and oversee the scheme.

I'll be perfectly honest and say I was rather suprised at this announcement. I'm not a particular fan of Howard, but I'm delighted at this effort. It really should silence his critics; even those who object to his decision not to freeze or abolish debts.

The only topic worth debating, I believe, is the bi-lateral basis of this scheme. Ideally I should have liked to see it as part of the greater global effort, but I can understand why Australia feels that it's more in their national interest to handle it as they are.

The current donations now stand as follows:

Code:

1) - Austrlaia  -  $1B (population of 20M)
2) - Germany  - $890M (population of 82.3M)
3) - Japan  -  $654M (population of 127.2M)
4) - US  -  $458M (population of 290M)
5) - World Bank  -  $327.3M (population N/A)
6) - Norway  -  $238M (population of 4.5M)
7) - Britian  -  $125.6M (population of 60M)
8) - Italy  -  $124.3M (population of 58M)
9) - Sweden  -  $104.7M (population of 9M)
10) - Canada  -  $104.7M (population of 31M)

Kudos to Norway for such a huge contribution compared to their size. Wow.

It's notable that none of the (very) rich Islamic countries have come to the aid of their muslim brothers. This annoys me no end.

Mr Mephisto

Mephisto2 · 01-06-2005, 04:44 PM

And an editorial commenting upon the donation.

Quote:

Stunning, and not just in size
By Tom Allard
January 7, 2005

The two leaders embraced in a show of friendship.

The Indonesian President, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, was clearly touched by John Howard's compassion and his promise of $1 billion. It was a gesture disaster-torn Indonesia "will never forget".

The Federal Government's huge aid package stands alone as the most generous offered by a single country. But what makes it remarkable is the way it has been delivered.

It is pure unilateralism.

By circumventing the United Nations and rejecting a freeze on Indonesia's debt repayments, Australia is isolated even from the US in its approach to helping the reconstruction after the tsunami disaster.

After the calamitous decision to invade Iraq before the UN weapons inspectors had finished their jobs, unilateralism and Australia have an unhappy recent history.

Yet in this case there is a lot of merit in Howard's position.

There is no more vital relationship for Australia at the moment than the one it shares with its near neighbour and, by dealing directly with Indonesia Australia has created a reservoir of goodwill with Yudhoyono.

The leaders of the two countries get on very well and yesterday's initiative clearly touched SBY, who told the Prime Minister he "will never forget it".

It's priceless diplomatic capital, and if managed wisely can be leveraged to Australia's advantage for years to come, most notably in deepening co-operation in the war against terrorism, in areas where the threat to Australia's interests is greatest.

Also, the more Australia and Indonesia work closely together and develop mutual understanding, the more likely it is that Indonesia will be sympathetic to Australia's interests in other areas, including its attempt to join a dynamic and fast-growing pan-Asian economic community.

As the world's largest Muslim nation and a new and successful democracy, the recovery and long-term prosperity of Indonesia have the potential to do much to convince the wider Islamic world the West is not intrinsically hostile to it.

To be sure, the billions pledged by rich nations, led by Australia, completely overshadow the paltry $50 million pledged so far by the oil-rich Arab states.

Howard is also on solid ground in eschewing the debt moratorium push.

Pop stars, aid groups and churches have long advocated debt forgiveness as the best way to spur development in the Third World.

When huge slabs of government budgets are spent servicing outstanding loans instead of being devoted to their impoverished populations, such an idea has obvious appeal.

The truth is, however, this is a supremely inefficient way of assisting the survivors of the Boxing Day calamity.

There can be no guarantees that this money will find its way to the estimated 1 million people without shelter or that it will be used to rebuild critical infrastructure.

Indeed, it is almost certain that it will not.

As sovereign states, countries receiving aid cannot be properly policed in how they spend the funds released by the debt freeze.

In the case of Indonesia, which is still riddled with corruption, the funds are likely to be siphoned off, probably to its military, whose equipment is in a state of disrepair.

By delivering the $1 billion through a joint commission closely overseen by Australian as well as Indonesian ministers and officials, the Australian model best ensures transparency and that taxpayers' funds are not being misallocated.

It goes against my grain to praise unilateralism, but in this case I have no choice but to do so.

Mr Mephisto

ShaniFaye · 01-06-2005, 04:48 PM

just out of curiosity...are those amounts in each countries own money?

for example is the 125.6 million from GB in pounds? or is the 1 billion from Aussie in Aussie dollars?

Mephisto2 · 01-06-2005, 04:50 PM

Sorry, the funds are listed in Australian dollars.

Current exchange rate is about .76 US dollars to the Australian dollar.

Mr Mephisto

spindles · 01-06-2005, 05:17 PM

Oz govt also making it easier for other funds to get there more easily. This is from an article about a charity cricket match being played on Monday:

Quote:

Meanwhile, England's Darren Gough will be the first overseas member of the World XI to arrive in Melbourne this morning, and will join a team comprising players from Australia, New Zealand and the West Indies.

The Steve Waugh-coached World XI will assemble in Melbourne over the weekend, preparing for a match that is projected to raise millions of dollars for victims of the tsunami through television rights, sponsorships, gate takings and a tele-thon that will run throughout the day-night encounter.

Already 46,000 tickets have been sold, raising hopes that the match will be a sell-out. And with the Australian Taxation Office pledging to ensure that tickets, food and merchandise purchased at the game will be tax-free, match organisers are confident much-needed funds won't be delayed by bureaucratic red tape.

"The ATO don't usually get a lot of raps, but they've been one of the unsung heroes so far," said Cricket Australia communications manager Peter Young. "They have pulled out all stops over the last seven days to untangle a lot of complicated legislature and make sure the money gets where it is needed."

Young said worldwide television rights would fetch "six figures, and just a bit short of seven figures", with the match to be beamed to the subcontinent, North America, Africa, Asia and Europe.

Prime Minister John Howard will return from Indonesia for the pre-match coin toss, while the Royal Australian Air Force will send a pair of Hercules aircraft for a fly-over of the MCG before play.

The private sector has been similarly supportive of the match. To date, 20,000 Four'n Twenty pies, untold litres of Coca-Cola and a stadium's worth of Nestle ice cream have been donated, with all sales at the ground channelled directly to World Vision.

Qantas have reportedly incurred a cost of $100,000 to fly all players to and from Melbourne, while the Hyatt will accommodate all concerned free of charge. None, however, has matched the contribution of Australian team sponsor Travelex, which has committed $1 million to the charity.

"It really does rekindle your faith in human nature when you see the extraordinary efforts people have made for this," Young said. "Everywhere we've turned, people have been volunteering to assist us and do it free of charge. And the players, with the schedules the way they are, didn't blink when we asked them to be involved. It's great to know that with all the effort that has gone into putting this together, funds aren't going to be tied up in places they shouldn't be."

The Asian XI will turn out in gold-and-green uniforms, while the World XI will wear blue in the match, which was the brainchild of former Test cricketer and current Federation of International Cricketers' Association chief Tim May. A second game will be staged in India next month.

OFKU0 · 01-06-2005, 06:57 PM

I think Canada's prime minister Martin will announce a huge bundle when he visits the region in a week or so. He is never one to miss a photo-op looking good. Canada has also fast tracked the adoption processes and waived fees making it easier to adopt parentless kids. Also sent a large tactical team that will be there for months and months.

Overall I'm quite impressed with individual countries (minus Arab oil countries) as well as individuals themselves. From the nobodies like me to Michael Shumacker (10 m) to Hollywood stars. I just hope that this continues not only for this tragedy but for all the others that have unfolded over decades rather than minutes.

seretogis · 01-07-2005, 06:56 AM

Personally, it disgusts me that some people are treating the aid for this disaster as a competition. It's not a race.

Yakk · 01-07-2005, 08:53 AM

Quote:

The current donations now stand as follows:

First, for Canada, you forgot debt relief and provincial donations.

Are you including private donations or not? You don't appear to be

Second, 500 million in a loan isn't the same as a 500 million grant.

One should look at the rates Indonesia offers for 10-40 year bonds, and you should be able to figure out what the 'real value' of that 500 million dollar interest-free loan is.

(For example, a loan of 500 million dollars to austrialia, interest free, that is due back 100% in 10 years, is worth only 178 million dollars. Such a loan due back in 40 years is worth about 414 million dollars. Such a loan where half is due back in 25 years, half in (edit) another (end edit) 15, is worth about 373 million.)

Hmm. Actually, given the credit-worthiness of Indonesia, a 500 million dollar interst-free 10-year loan is almost a 500 million dollar grant. . . Still, would be interesting to work out the solution.

In USD, in non-corperate* donations: (from wikipedia)
1> Germany: > 992 > 0.49% of GNP
2> AUS: 913.8 1.6% of GNP
3> USA: 752 0.07% of GNP
4> EU: 615
5> Japan: > 500 > 0.115 of GNP
6> World Bank: 250
7> Norway: 245 1.11% of GNP
8> UK: 241 0.13% of GNP
9> India: > 183 > 0.3% of GNP (87% going internally)
10> Canada: 162.45 0.264% of GNP
11> Sweden: 140 0.465% of GNP
12> Netherlands: > 186 > 0.44% of GNP
13> Italy: > 125 > 0.085% of GNP
14> Total Corperate: > 121
15> Taiwan: 110 0.34% of GNP
16> Switzerland: 109.8 0.35% of GNP
17> Saudi Arabia: > 97.4 ? something like 0.03% of GNP
18> HK: 57.5 0.36% of GNP
19> France: > 57 > 0.03% of GNP
20> Finland: 33.7 > 0.2% of GNP

The total pledged from all EU nations now stands at over 2.5 billion US dollars (!)

* Corperate donations have some locality issues. Most listed on the Wiki are American.

Per-capita, the top 10 nations are Norway, Australia, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, Qatar, Netherlands, Hong Kong and Canada.

The drop off per-capita between the top two (Norway and Australia) and the rest is huge: 54$ and 46$ for Norway/Australia vs 16$ for Denmark.

Quote:

Personally, it disgusts me that some people are treating the aid for this disaster as a competition. It's not a race.

If it takes a race to save millions of lives, I'll cheer. If it takes a race to generate 4 billion dollars in aid -- do you have any clue how many lives and how much suffering 4 billion dollars will save -- then your disgust isn't worth considering.

The lives saved matter. If you consider the way the lives where saved to be tasteless, then go eat tasty cake -- cake is supposed to be tasty. Aid is supposed to save lives and end suffering, not cater to a sense of decorum.

Quote:

Overall I'm quite impressed with individual countries (minus Arab oil countries) as well as individuals themselves. From the nobodies like me to Michael Shumacker (10 m) to Hollywood stars. I just hope that this continues not only for this tragedy but for all the others that have unfolded over decades rather than minutes.

Qatar did good, and Saudi Arabia isn't the bottom of the barrel.

You must realize, most of the middle eastern states are not all that rich, even with their oil revenue, compared to the first world.

On a per-capita basis, the two richest middle east states are UAE and Qatar. They rival New Zealand -- and there are more Kiwi's than both of those nations put together.

After them comes Isreal, Kuwait -- both of which are simularly postage-stamp sized.

Saudi Arabia and Oman have per capita GDPs that rival Lithuania and Estonia and Hungary and Poland. Saudi Arabia has fewer people than Canada, and Oman is another postage-stamp sized nation.

The middle east is poor, for all it's oil wealth.

Edit: Some spelling mistakes, and one fix

Cadwiz · 01-07-2005, 09:08 AM

Quote:

It's notable that none of the (very) rich Islamic countries have come to the aid of their muslim brothers. This annoys me no end.

I have also picked up on this, and it also ticks me off.

It also disturbs me that it seems like the aid situation is turning into a political pissing contest, but it will hopefully make a large difference on how the region returns to "normal".

hiredgun · 01-07-2005, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seretogis

Personally, it disgusts me that some people are treating the aid for this disaster as a competition. It's not a race.

Of course not, but if a little competition helps people open their wallets up, then in the end there's no real harm, is there?

Manx · 01-07-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seretogis

Personally, it disgusts me that some people are treating the aid for this disaster as a competition. It's not a race.

I was just thinking the _exact_ opposite. How awesome is it that countries are trying to one up each other by GIVING money? Fucking spectacular. Beats the hell out of military contests to measure dick size.

And I know if I was some homeless Sri Lankan, I wouldn't pause for a second if someone was handing me food and shelter to think about who provided the money for it, or why.

Fourtyrulz · 01-07-2005, 11:14 AM

Maybe Australia is looking to expand it's empire after all these years.

But I totally agree with Manx and others on the race for funds. It's really no different than holding a Race for the Cure for cancer or a giving a grade school a prize for earning the most money in a school fund raiser. If the competition between countries fosters more money for relief then what is so bad?

Locke7 · 01-07-2005, 11:22 AM

I was just wondering if anyone knows how all of these countries are coming up with their numbers. I know in some countries all aid money is funneled through the government. Where as in America, most people DON'T send their money to the government, they use groups like the Red Cross to get their money to people in need. I'd like to see the real numbers that would be calculated by looking at the money donated to those groups as well.

Yakk · 01-07-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke7

I was just wondering if anyone knows how all of these countries are coming up with their numbers. I know in some countries all aid money is funneled through the government. Where as in America, most people DON'T send their money to the government, they use groups like the Red Cross to get their money to people in need. I'd like to see the real numbers that would be calculated by looking at the money donated to those groups as well.

The numbers I gave include all of government, NGO and private donations. They exclude corperate donations, which I accounted for seperately.

Mephisto2 · 01-07-2005, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakk

You must realize, most of the middle eastern states are not all that rich, even with their oil revenue, compared to the first world.

On a per-capita basis, the two richest middle east states are UAE and Qatar. They rival New Zealand -- and there are more Kiwi's than both of those nations put together.

After them comes Isreal, Kuwait -- both of which are simularly postage-stamp sized.

Saudi Arabia and Oman have per capita GDPs that rival Lithuania and Estonia and Hungary and Poland. Saudi Arabia has fewer people than Canada, and Oman is another postage-stamp sized nation.

The middle east is poor, for all it's oil wealth.

Edit: Some spelling mistakes, and one fix

Thanks for clearing up a common misconception; one that I also shared.

For what it's worth, the press in many of these arab countries have been complaining about the donations. Since my post several of them have increased their contribution significantly.

Mr Mephisto

soccerchamp76 · 01-08-2005, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seretogis

Personally, it disgusts me that some people are treating the aid for this disaster as a competition. It's not a race.

How does this disgust you?
The more competition, the more money that helps out people.
If Bill Gates and whoever is #2 on the world's richest list race to see who gives the most money, who is the REAL winner? Indonesia

Yakk · 01-11-2005, 07:56 PM

Current status of the disgusting race:
Total promised to date: more than 7.33 billion dollars.

Amount of AID sorted by "% of GDP"
Column 1: Nation name
Column 2: Total aid (public + private, not including corperate)
Column 3: GDP
Column 4: % of GDP pledged and donated and loaned

Because of the interest, arab nations (which are mainly islamic) bolded.

Kuwait 100 35.37 0.280
Australia 918.4 518.4 0.177
Qatar 25 17.47 0.140
Norway 265.1 221.6 0.119
Netherlands 446.5 512 0.0872
Finland 88.1 162 0.054
Saudi Arabia 97.5 188.5 0.052
Canada 471.75 834.4 0.051
Sweden 144.4 300.8 0.048
Denmark 100.9 212.4 0.0475
Germany 1,071 2400 0.0446
Switzerland 131.7 309.5 0.0425
Taiwan 110 293.2 0.038
Hong Kong 57.5 158.6 0.0363
United Arab Emirates 25 70.96 0.035
Republic of Ireland 41.79 148.6 0.0281
Czech Republic 16 85 0.0188
United Kingdom 327.8 1795 0.0183
Singapore 15 91.34 0.016
Greece 21.3 173 0.0123
Japan 500 4326 0.012
Spain 73.13 836.1 0.0087
Italy 120.13 1466 0.0082
United States 865 10880 0.008
Belgium 23.68 302 0.0078
Portugal 10.45 149 0.0070
China 95.07 1410 0.0067
India 183 599 0.0031
France 54.84 1748 0.0031

And, so as not to undersell the importance of the larger nations, the 100 million+ club, sorted by total donated:
Entire EU 2,500+ 11000+ ??
Germany 1,071 2400 0.0446
Australia 918.4 518.4 0.177
United States 865 10880 0.008
Japan 500 4326 0.012
Canada 471.75 834.4 0.051
Netherlands 446.5 512 0.0872
United Kingdom 327.8 1795 0.0183
Sweden 144.4 300.8 0.048
Taiwan 110 293.2 0.038
Norway 265.1 221.6 0.119
India 183 599 0.0031
Switzerland 131.7 309.5 0.0425
Italy 120.13 1466 0.0082
Denmark 100.9 212.4 0.0475

No data for private donations from Japan is availiable on the wiki yet.

(source)

01-06-2005, 04:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	just out of curiosity...are those amounts in each countries own money? for example is the 125.6 million from GB in pounds? or is the 1 billion from Aussie in Aussie dollars? __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

01-06-2005, 06:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
OFKU0 Junk	I think Canada's prime minister Martin will announce a huge bundle when he visits the region in a week or so. He is never one to miss a photo-op looking good. Canada has also fast tracked the adoption processes and waived fees making it easier to adopt parentless kids. Also sent a large tactical team that will be there for months and months. Overall I'm quite impressed with individual countries (minus Arab oil countries) as well as individuals themselves. From the nobodies like me to Michael Shumacker (10 m) to Hollywood stars. I just hope that this continues not only for this tragedy but for all the others that have unfolded over decades rather than minutes. __________________ " In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

01-07-2005, 06:56 AM	#7 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	Personally, it disgusts me that some people are treating the aid for this disaster as a competition. It's not a race. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

01-07-2005, 11:14 AM	#12 (permalink)
Fourtyrulz Psycho Location: io-where?	Maybe Australia is looking to expand it's empire after all these years. But I totally agree with Manx and others on the race for funds. It's really no different than holding a Race for the Cure for cancer or a giving a grade school a prize for earning the most money in a school fund raiser. If the competition between countries fosters more money for relief then what is so bad? __________________ the·o·ry - a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation. faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. - Merriam-Webster's dictionary

01-11-2005, 07:56 PM	#17 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	Current status of the disgusting race: Total promised to date: more than 7.33 billion dollars. Amount of AID sorted by "% of GDP" Column 1: Nation name Column 2: Total aid (public + private, not including corperate) Column 3: GDP Column 4: % of GDP pledged and donated and loaned Because of the interest, arab nations (which are mainly islamic) bolded. Kuwait 100 35.37 0.280 Australia 918.4 518.4 0.177 Qatar 25 17.47 0.140 Norway 265.1 221.6 0.119 Netherlands 446.5 512 0.0872 Finland 88.1 162 0.054 Saudi Arabia 97.5 188.5 0.052 Canada 471.75 834.4 0.051 Sweden 144.4 300.8 0.048 Denmark 100.9 212.4 0.0475 Germany 1,071 2400 0.0446 Switzerland 131.7 309.5 0.0425 Taiwan 110 293.2 0.038 Hong Kong 57.5 158.6 0.0363 United Arab Emirates 25 70.96 0.035 Republic of Ireland 41.79 148.6 0.0281 Czech Republic 16 85 0.0188 United Kingdom 327.8 1795 0.0183 Singapore 15 91.34 0.016 Greece 21.3 173 0.0123 Japan 500 4326 0.012 Spain 73.13 836.1 0.0087 Italy 120.13 1466 0.0082 United States 865 10880 0.008 Belgium 23.68 302 0.0078 Portugal 10.45 149 0.0070 China 95.07 1410 0.0067 India 183 599 0.0031 France 54.84 1748 0.0031 And, so as not to undersell the importance of the larger nations, the 100 million+ club, sorted by total donated: Entire EU 2,500+ 11000+ ?? Germany 1,071 2400 0.0446 Australia 918.4 518.4 0.177 United States 865 10880 0.008 Japan 500 4326 0.012 Canada 471.75 834.4 0.051 Netherlands 446.5 512 0.0872 United Kingdom 327.8 1795 0.0183 Sweden 144.4 300.8 0.048 Taiwan 110 293.2 0.038 Norway 265.1 221.6 0.119 India 183 599 0.0031 Switzerland 131.7 309.5 0.0425 Italy 120.13 1466 0.0082 Denmark 100.9 212.4 0.0475 No data for private donations from Japan is availiable on the wiki yet. (source) __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

01-06-2005, 04:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	Sorry, the funds are listed in Australian dollars. Current exchange rate is about .76 US dollars to the Australian dollar. Mr Mephisto

01-07-2005, 11:22 AM	#13 (permalink)
Locke7 Insane	I was just wondering if anyone knows how all of these countries are coming up with their numbers. I know in some countries all aid money is funneled through the government. Where as in America, most people DON'T send their money to the government, they use groups like the Red Cross to get their money to people in need. I'd like to see the real numbers that would be calculated by looking at the money donated to those groups as well.