Pacifier

http://www.thenausea.com/elements/us...aqmassacre.wmv


My thoughts about the video:

1. the plans seems to fly somewaht low, at least low enough for the people to see the plane. Still there is no reaction, it doesn't look like they are afraid of an millitary plane. If those people were insurgents I think the would have taken cover.

2. due to the video quality it is impossible to tell if those people were aremed. But when the pilot asks permission to fire, he reports a large number of people. He doesn't mentions any kind of weapon or any hostile action. The response to kill them follows immediately.

Together with the attack on unarmed demonstrators (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...303127,00.html) it looks like the USA troops are quite trigger happy. It this the way the USA wants to win the hearts and mind of the Iraqi People?
Iraq is revolting against the USA, NY times reports 2368 attacks in 30 Days (http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,394373,00.gif) there was no iraqi province that was peaceful (like Alawi claimed)

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"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

Rekna

The sad part is the piolets reaction. "ohh dude!" Anyone who takes joy in the death of other should rott in hell.

splck

sad stuff indeed.

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nice line eh?

woOt?

I don't think the pilot is taking joy in killing. I think it's more of an "better you than me" attitude. Frankly, that place is a mess right now. WE don't know who's who in there. I would have an itchy trigger finger if I was there too.

Sad but true.

powerclown

Here we go again. I guess its the price of free admission.

I saw this video like 2-3 months ago. Linking it to a recent Sept. 13th article as a means of explaining what happened in that video is simply dishonest.

Effort: 1.1
Originality: 0.3
Accuracy: 0
TrollFactor: 10

Baldrick

While I definitely don't condone the Iraq war, your first point has little merit to be honest. With today's technology, there is no way to know how low the aircraft was, as the "camera" would have been extremely zoomed in. These people more than likely never knew what hit them.

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Ustwo

Nice shot.

Reminds me of the start of the running man with the bogus edited video.

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cthulu23

For once, Ustwo, I was thinking of the same thing as you. Of course, we probably interpreted it differently. At the very least, I wouldn't be so flippant when discussing the deaths of human beings, whether they be enemy or ally. We can't exactly condemn the barbarism of the enemy if we fail to act in a civilized manner ourselves. Death be not proud, war is hell, etc, etc.

I don't know if this footage is legitimate or not, but I don't think that you should blame pilots for fulfilling their years of training. Blame the forces that put them in the situation in the first place.

Seaver

Well with multiple navy pilots in my family I can tell you that guy was at least 25k feet, which is way out of hearing/sight range for the blind eye.

Second they dont just fly around looking for crowds, if the plane was in the area it's because they were called in. By highly trained people on the ground who I'm sure could see if they were armed or not.

JumpinJesus

It appears that there is a slight moment where the camera zooms out, showing that the image we are seeing is probably a zoom-in. I'm also not so sure his comment of "ohh, dude." is meant as a celebratory remark, more that the pilot was probably somewhat surprised at the amount of damage that direct hit caused.

I can't crawl inside his mind so I don't know what he was thinking, but I'm likely to give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't take joy in what he did.

This video, while compelling, is taken out of context. We don't know why he was there, who the people on the ground were, or anything else other than the snippet we are seeing. We may draw our own conclusions, but unless we have all the facts, our conclusions are only assumptions.

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Ustwo

I wouldn't CARE if he took joy in their deaths.

This is war and you are killing people, you have to justify it to yourself in whatever works. You can't have your army sighing in shame every time they win. After the fight, when the adrenaline is gone and you are then free to feel remorse, shame, or joy if you want. Armies kill things, its what they do, its what they have always done. Doubt is not what you want in YOUR army unless you want to get them killed.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

edwhit

Well said JumpinJesus!

I was gonna post something along the same lines but no longer feel the need

mirevolver

That plane was not flying low. The pilot said, "Ten seconds," which was the time to target. That means that when he said that the bomb was already in the air and he was reading off of what the instruments in his plane were telling him.

For something falling to the ground, ten seconds means that it's falling from a pretty good altitude.

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Pacifier

I didn't link it as an explanation, I think both events have something in common, that why I l "linked" them.
I think, or I'm afraid, both events show that the US has become too trigger happy. Events like that are bad for their efforts in the Iraq.

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

yellowgowild

If we don't like it, what are we going to do about it?

DJ Happy

The US forces have been accused of being trigger-happy for years now, stemming back from the first Gulf War.

There are reports that many of the troops, especially pilots, are being given amphetamines in an effort to keep them working longer while maintaining alertness levels. The problem with this is that it seriously impairs judgement.

British troops serving with the Americans have complained for a while that the biggest threat to their safety is the US troops. It is not a secret that the US were responsible for the majority of UK deaths in the first Gulf War. There is a story of a British helicopter pilot in the current conflict who was fired upon by the US as he tried to land his helicopter at a coalition base. After he finally managed to land under fire he ran over to the US soldiers firing at him and screamed something along the lines of, "What the fuck are you doing? When was the last time you saw a fucking Iraqi helicopter?" Never mind an Iraqi helicopter that was insisting on landing at a coalition base while being fired upon.

scout

Not being personal or anything, but I was wondering if you have some sort of proof, like a news link or website etc.? The helicopter pilot's story, while somewhat humorous and quite serious, certainly has a ring of "far-fetchedness" to it. There will always be friendly fire incidents, there has been in every war and probably always will be. Things can get pretty confusing real quick when projectiles are whizzing past your ears.

DJ Happy

I beg your pardon, I should've posted them in the original post, but here they are now:

US soldiers supplied with amphetamines:
http://www.acftv.com/news/article.asp?news_id=65

I can't find the link about the British helicopter pilot at the moment (I'll keep looking though), but here are other links with British soldiers complaining about the attitudes of the US troops:
http://english.people.com.cn/200303/...1_114295.shtml
http://www.fourwinds10.com/news/05-g...stretched.html

An interesting link with comments from UK soldiers who have served with US troops (follow the links contained within to read more):
http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/003231.html