OpieCunningham

Thank you for perfectly demonstrating my point.

powerclown

Microsoft Word v. "C-BS Original"

High-Res Version




"It’s very telling that the automatically word-wrapped MS Word version exactly matches the line breaks in the CBS “original” for 11 lines, with not a single discrepancy. And the last line does not automatically wrap ... until you type the final period.

If you look closely at the CBS “original” you can see that there’s quite a bit of distortion and shearing, probably caused by whatever technique was used to artificially “age” the document. So the overlay technique is not as effective with this one; but if you overlay them and nudge one of them by single pixels from side to side, words and lines come into exact focus in different parts of the image."

Rathergate Debunked

seretogis

Not only could someone have attempted to artificially age the document, it was photocopied / faxed / re-faxed / re-photocopied several times, which would further deteriorate the quality. This makes me wonder how involved the DNC and Kerry campaign are in this attempt.

That is classic "Liberal" thinking. Us have-nots shouldn't be "gifted" with your obviously superior intellect. We's just not dat smart fer understooding it.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

analog

Computer fonts were originally made to mimic classic typewriter styles, as they were already in use and could be scanned in to create a font set. Hell, I can buy a piece of software that will let me make a font set of my own handwriting.

The fact that a computer program such as Word is a newer technology that essentially mimics and replaces an older technological device (typewriter) should not be ignored in this case. Computer keyboards followed the same design as typewriters, despite the fact that typewriter keyboards were designed that way for efficiency in the machine, not for our hands. Many different styles of key arrangment in computer keyboards are still in use to this day, but the "QWERTY" style is undoubtedly the overwhelming majority.

I don't think the fact that I can use a $500 piece of year-2004 typing software to mimic the font style on a pre-existing old-as-hell typewriter is very impressive at all, or very telling. I can take a photo and edit it so it looks like you're boning Bea Arthur, but that doesn't mean it happened.

sprocket

Quick blurb in Ustwo's defense:

Its amazing Ustwo keeps his head as cool as he does on this board. He is a smart ass, but I have yet to see him ever be offensive or out of line (without instigation). I have to give him credit for ever posting at all in the midst of so many who disagree with him. Tilted Politics is pretty much a liberal/democrat support group (lynch mob at times).

Now back to the topic at hand. I voted for the first option.

This whole situation is really baffeling to me. Even if these documents are true, who the hell cares? All the fuss and drama over the authenticity of these documents has really overshadowed the actual content of the documents and their accusations against Bush. As soon as I saw what CBS was trying to "uncover" about Bush I laughed. Why the hell is this a story? Who cares? Its trivial.

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Remember, wherever you go... there you are.

Ustwo

The funny thing is despite the obvious nature of the fonts, the fonts are just the first problem with the memos.

The fonts just gave it away, but the language is wrong, people sited in them were wrong, the people who are sited say they are not true.

Some people keep grasping, looking for that 1 in 1 million chance they are not forgeries, but its getting rather pathetic.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

OpieCunningham

Sorry, I'm not buying the "poor conservatives in the TFP world of liberals" excuse. There are plenty of conservatives on these forums that aren't as absurdly arrogant or blatantly contradictory as Ustwo. He CONSTANTLY instigates. Even to the degree that he pre-instigates (see his comment about any healthcare topic being too advanced for TFP BEFORE it even got started).

If you give him credit for ever posting, you must hold the other conservatives who do not position themselves as godly geniuses and who are honestly here for debate (instead of Ustwo's self-admitted goal of destroying liberalism), to be literal Saints.

filtherton

To paraphrase: I am not as you say i am, in fact, look, i am exactly as you say i am.

onetime2

The thing that bugs me the most about the second document is the lack of consistency. In some spots they superscript the "th" while in others they do not. The first document consistently does not superscript them. Additionally, in one spot they refer to it as "111 F.L.S." while in another "111th F.L.S." with the "th" superscripted.

While I have never been a military typist I have, most assuredly, been indoctrinated into the military protocol of consistency. Perhaps it's a fluke as I know plenty of mistakes are made that fall outside of SOP but it strikes me as odd.

__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

pan6467

Risking getting into trouble here..... for those who say the TFP has more libs than Conservatives ..... this thread was built on hate and the mods have done nothing to it. A "Lib" started one similar and his was taken out. Now then WHO gets preferential treatment on these boards? Who can start fights and act like he's above everyone else and yet others get in trouble? just fact based questions just dispelling the "poor Conservatives posting on a Lib board BS.

BTW voluntarily this is my last post in politics. I'm tired of bullies having to ignore people, getting into trouble with mods while a complaint I lodged got ignored and I got told basically tough shit and getting attacked for trying to express my freedom of speech. As a friend messaged me and said.... it just ain't worth the hassle.

So bully away and watch everyone who truly has things to say leave because "the poor Conservatives are posting and trying their hardest to not fight with the nasty Libs who outnumber them here."

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

onetime2

There are plenty of examples of threads being closed on both sides. This thread has remained relatively cordial. I don't see how this was "built on hate" in the least.

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Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

onetime2

That's too bad pan. I will miss our conversations. There is little doubt there are more libs than conservatives and I know for a fact that many conservatives refuse to post on this board because they are immediately jumped on by many "lib" regulars. I myself have been insulted on more occasions than I care to recall. I've lodged complaints that went unanswered as well and was recently rebuked by a liberal leaning mod who felt I didn't have a right to try to "self regulate" the board (which it was my understanding they were trying to push for). Obviously this is no panacea.

__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

Ustwo

I'd say goodbye but you have had me on ignore since last spring

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

OpieCunningham

Wow, that sounds almost EXACTLY like what we know about Bush+Co's comments on Iraq's attempts to obtain nuclear technology: that an expert (the CIA) repeatedly warned them that the information was not anywhere near solid and admonished them not to use it.

But they did.

For Rather's sake - I only hope the conservatives don't completely destroy him like they have destroyed Bush. Then again, Rather's blunder assuredly doesn't have the magnitude of import that Bush's had ... so I think the conservatives will probably not feel the need to completely trash Rather's rep like they have with Bush.

Ustwo

This is a classic example of distorting facts to draw a similarity to two dissimilar events. And you wonder why I sometimes give up?

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...3&postcount=91

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

OpieCunningham

Uh no. It is a classic example of an analogy.

From the article you posted headline: Bush's "16 Words" on Iraq & Uranium: He May Have Been Wrong But He Wasn't Lying

The article points out correctly that (assuming) Bush didn't know the information was undeniably false and therefore he did not lie when he used it.

But other facts not contained in your article demonstrate that the CIA warned him the information was weak repeatedly - but he used it anyway. That doesn't mean he was a liar, but it does mean he used information which he was told was weak.

Exactly like Rather.

But your response is a classic example of a redefinition: analogy becomes distortion of facts, even when no facts have been distorted.

And just to be clear - I don't wonder why you sometimes "give up". I don't see you attempting "to start" anything other than an argument.

Superbelt

Thanks for taking me up on it, now please go here:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...&postcount=134
That should be sufficient to show that the original in no way matches a computer attempt at TNR.

analog

powerclown

All due respect superbelt, not sufficient as far as Im concerned. You really should read the Washington Post article. You know, I could care less whether or not Bush got preferential treatment in military, it wouldn't surprise me, but I don't like when the media tries to run a smear campaign with the goal of trying to sway public opinion like this. Its despicable and one of the reasons I despise ego-maniacal, power-tripping journalists.

The Phenomenon

Oh please.

What a load of crap.

What is so glaringly MSWord about it? That it was done in a Variable space font? Hint: MSWord is not the only way to get variable length fonts.

Ustwo

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=69788

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

The Phenomenon

You don;t think its galringly WordPerfect or maybe OpenOffice maybe huh?

And lets not forget Acrobat...

The Phenomenon

Oh and by and by and by and by the way, I don't see how your post proves it to be "glaringly MSWord". But maybe its time you get some corrective sunglasses, you know, to take care of the glare.

Ustwo

You did read the whole thread?

You did try it out yourself (type the document using MS word default fonts)?

You did keep up and know that the default MS word font was NOT used by any typewriter of the day?

You do know you could edit and not double post?

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

seretogis

Additional graphic from the Washington Post:

__________________
seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

The Phenomenon

Sorry to dissapoint, but yes I have.

Yes some of it, did not look the same. I also typede it in using OpenOffice, and that looked closer to it than MSWord, but still not quite there.

Where did you obtain your level of expertise as far as recognizing MSWord documents? The glare is not coming through to me.

Have you noticed that that is not the default MSWord font? Have you realised that Times New Roman (MS Word default font) and variants, have been in use for many many years in print, and on type-writers? Its not unique to MSWord, not even almost, and it did not originate from MSWord either.

I have books that were printed in the 70s/80s that are set in this font.

In fact I even remember old 16bit versions of MSWorks to have had this font as well, long before Word ever existed. But I guess this all must have occured through the same worm-hole you were talking about. Talked to NASA yet? I am sure their Breakthrough Propulsion Phycisists would be greatly interested.

You mean like you do? I have seen you double post on more than one occasion, Mr. "I never double post".

In fact you created a new thread not so long ago in which you double posted immediately after the thread's initial post.

But I am sure that you had a very very VERY good reason for doing so.

__________________
Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

onetime2

FWIW, my comments had nothing to do with a thread being closed. They only dealt with comments made in an open thread by a mod and my attempts to report posts that were clearly defamatory towards me. Since I've been told in the past that rather than reply to insulting posts I should report them I attempted to do so. Not receiving any response and no alterations being made to the reported posts proved this method of regulation to be ineffective. The mod comment was in response to my attempt at "self regulating" a thread rather than relying on mods to clean up after us politics posters. Apparently that was no longer the proper thing to do either.

__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

powerclown

"Up in Smoke"