Ok now that I've seen the documents - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ustwo · 09-18-2004, 04:24 PM

I am by no means a 'document' expert, but after having used MSword quite a bit, its even apparent to me these were made on MS word. I don't think there can be ANY doubt about this, I didn't know how pathetic this scam was.

So whats your theory on WHY CBS would run with this story?

OpieCunningham · 09-18-2004, 04:46 PM

So you're saying you posted 27 times (6 more than anyone else) in the CBS NEWS INVESTIGATION thread and you hadn't even looked at the documents in question?

And now you focus on the variable-width font question which has already been demonstrated to be nonsense.

You've got some balls.

JBX · 09-18-2004, 04:55 PM

CBS didn't care if they were fake, they wanted to hurt Bush. That's what I think.

Ustwo · 09-18-2004, 04:56 PM

I saw one of them, but it was magnified in pdf format, but not being an expert I didn't decide to have a close look. I figured it was something technical not glaringly obvious and amazingly stupid. I gave CBS SOME credit, obviously it wasn't due.

Obviously our titled left who defended the documents must not have looked at them either, as its so glaringly MSword.

OpieCunningham · 09-18-2004, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I saw one of them, but it was magnified in pdf format, but not being an expert I didn't decide to have a close look. I figured it was something technical not glaringly obvious and amazingly stupid. I gave CBS SOME credit, obviously it wasn't due.

Obviously our titled left who defended the documents must not have looked at them either, as its so glaringly MSword.

This also means you completely ignored all of the points which were brought up demonstrating how the technical "evidence" that they were faked was bogus.

So, in essence, you read somewhere (a blog) that they were fake and instead of questioning the source of THAT information, you decided to question CBS and ignore some other information (from a different blog).

You're just as bad as you claim CBS to be, Ustwo. You either had an agenda in posting 27 times about the fake memos or you didn't care enough to look past exactly what you wanted them to be.

If you had any credibility around here, you just killed it.

Superbelt · 09-18-2004, 05:51 PM

Heh, God, you just completely ignored everything in that thread. Ooh and nice poll too.

It's obvious they were made on MSWord?
You know nothing and are just parroting someone else who was trying to discredit them.
Type in 111th in ms. See where the th lines up. Not like in that document. Not even close. The th does not go past the top of the numbers in MSWord in superscripting. In the CBS document the th intersects the upper line of the numbers. Even manually shifting the th higher than the line (which takes additional steps that most people don't know about) keeps them visibly different from what the CBS document has.

If you try to compare the font on the CBS documen to MSWord's Times New Roman there are many significant differences. So many claims that it was made in MSWord are laughable.

I don't know if these are real or not, they may be reproductions of original documents. But I DO know they were not made in word. If they are forgeries, they were done using a typewriter. Smudges, imperfect strikes and the failure for all letters to line up on a razor edge makes this obivious to anyone who actually looked at them critically.

OpieCunningham · 09-18-2004, 05:53 PM

As our newest document + Mircosoft Word expert, Ustwo, maybe you can shed some light for us here - which of these two documents was produced in Microsoft Word a week ago and which was produced by an IBM typewriter in the early 1970's?

For you, the difference should be glaringly obvious.

irateplatypus · 09-18-2004, 05:58 PM

all wrangling aside... does anyone here on TFP still believe the memos to be genuine?

phukraut · 09-18-2004, 06:03 PM

I haven't really followed this story closely, but I wonder why MS Word was considered the culprit, and not the endless number of other programs? Can anyone shed any light? I suspect you can make a very convincing typewriter forgery in a LaTeX system for example.

Superbelt · 09-18-2004, 06:04 PM

I don't know. I am not a document expert. I can absolutely say though, it wasn't done with a computer. If they are forgeries someone went to the expense to find a period typewriter to do them on.

If they are not genuine, they may be reproductions to hide who released them. The secretary has already said that all of these documents contain information she has typed up for Killian before. Because of that I believe them not to just be some documents someone made up to slander Bush. The info is real so they must have come from real sources.

Other than that, I will wait for experts to certify them.

Ustwo · 09-18-2004, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpieCunningham

As our newest document + Mircosoft Word expert, Ustwo, maybe you can shed some light for us here - which of these two documents was produced in Microsoft Word a week ago and which was produced by an IBM typewriter in the early 1970's?

For you, the difference should be glaringly obvious.

Maybe I should get my magnifying glass.

Also the document I posted appears to be the default font for MS word, I'm sure if you played with MSword you could make it look like a very expensive typewriter the ANG would not have used

Saying you could get MS word to look like an older typewriter means nothing, what matters are the documents CBS used, which appear clearly to be MSword default settings. Also there are obvious differences between the two samples you posted. Now did you have a point?

Edit: For fun I typed the first long line using MSword, Spacing between the two is identical, including the TAB space. Cute

HEHEHE so does the title. Try it for yourself.

matthew330 · 09-18-2004, 06:16 PM

Can anyone answer this question for me: Why is is that every time i hear about this story i keep hearing in the back of my head "hanging chads, hanging chads"?

OpieCunningham · 09-18-2004, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Now did you have a point?

Yes I did. And I made it rather well. But you're not interested in "points" or "facts" or "evidence". You heard a rumor and you instantly believed it - to the point that you completely ignored any and all facts disproving the rumor for over a week while you posted 27 times.

Your agenda to paint Rather in a bad light/Bush in a good light or your thorough incompetence. Take your pick.

powerclown · 09-18-2004, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irateplatypus

all wrangling aside... does anyone here on TFP still believe the memos to be genuine?

Not genuine.
Given the way that the Repubs made a big deal out of Kerry's military experience, Im not surprised the Demos responded like this against Bush's military experience. This typifies the Demos entire campaign strategy: "Follow the Leader".

First it was: 'THIS IS JOHN KERRY AND I APPROVE OF THIS MESSAGE'.
Now this.

matthew330 · 09-18-2004, 06:35 PM

"follow the leader" precisely....how long was it that Bush was in office before they were yelling "impeach him." Funny shit.

and i'm sorry...who made a big deal of Kerry's military experience?"

smooth · 09-18-2004, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew330

"follow the leader" precisely....how long was it that Bush was in office before they were yelling "impeach him." Funny shit.

and i'm sorry...who made a big deal of Kerry's military experience?"

about a year and a half. Right about the time it looked like he was full of shit regarding the war rationale.

and the conservatives made a big deal out of kerry's military experience, even before he was nominated.

if you can't even remember back 6 months, how can you conceptualize the larger context of the past 4 years?

matthew330 · 09-18-2004, 07:30 PM

you never listened to President Bush's rationale for war, and you never will, that much is clear.

Go find yourself a little soundbite to Kerry's opening line in his speech at the democratic convention....something to the effect of "Reporting for duty, again." What a joke, and your still gonna tell me he's not the one making a big deal of his valiant 4 months in Vietnam, where he racked up 3 puple hearts, one silver star, and something that had bronze in it...on a fucking swift boat.

a lil reminder...the average tour in Vietnam was 18 months, and he managed all this in 4 months. So it's either Kerry should have single handedly won that war, or he's a fucking joke. You'll never come to terms with the latter, nor will you come to terms with the correct answer to this poll. My condolences.

Ustwo · 09-18-2004, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smooth

about a year and a half. Right about the time it looked like he was full of shit regarding the war rationale.

and the conservatives made a big deal out of kerry's military experience, even before he was nominated.

if you can't even remember back 6 months, how can you conceptualize the larger context of the past 4 years?

Ummmm WHO made a big deal out of Kerry's military experience?

KERRY made a big deal out of his experience, in fact its the ONLY thing he had going for him. Its the reason democratic voters switched to him during the primaries. Dean 'wasn't delectable' but Kerry is a hero!

Quote:

Kerry: Service Should Not Be “Litmus Test” For Leadership. “Mr. President, you and I know that if support or opposition to the war were to become a litmus test for leadership, America would never have leaders or recover from the divisions created by that war. You and I know that if service or nonservice in the war is to become a test of qualification for high office, you would not have a Vice President, nor would you have a Secretary of Defense and our Nation would never recover from the divisions created by that war.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/08/92, p. S17709)

But Now Kerry Constantly “Challenges The Stature Of His Democratic Opponents” Over Their Lack Of Military Service. “And more than ever, Mr. Kerry is invoking his stature as a Vietnam veteran as he challenges the stature of his Democratic opponents -- none of whom, he frequently points out, have ‘worn the uniform of our country’ -- to withstand a debate with Mr. Bush on national security.” (Adam Nagourney, “As Campaign Tightens, Kerry Sharpens Message,” The New York Times, 8/10/03)

edit: Laugh, delectable = electable, mmmm MS word spellchecker

smooth · 09-18-2004, 07:45 PM

there is no correct answer to this poll.

[why cast pearls before the swine]

powerclown · 09-18-2004, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Kerry: Service Should Not Be “Litmus Test” For Leadership. “Mr. President, you and I know that if support or opposition to the war were to become a litmus test for leadership, America would never have leaders or recover from the divisions created by that war. You and I know that if service or nonservice in the war is to become a test of qualification for high office, you would not have a Vice President, nor would you have a Secretary of Defense and our Nation would never recover from the divisions created by that war.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/08/92, p. S17709)

"Covering My Ass in Advance", by John F. Kerry, future Democratic nominee for President.

matthew330 · 09-18-2004, 07:52 PM

I have a diety?...killer.

the more i think about it...that shit is fuckin sweet!!

matthew330 · 09-18-2004, 08:10 PM

and smooth, just out of curiousity, who are these conservatives you watch and read that you hold in such high regard? Aside from McCain, i can't remeber the last public figure representing republican theory that liberals made out to be anything more than some christian right war mongering wack-job. Chalk me up as one of them. Also chalk me up as one who never gave you any indication religion was a part of my life, but you stereotyped me as one who's religion defined their philosophy. Nothing could be further from the truth. And i thought you guys hated "stereotypes."

In Rush Limbaugh's words "You have become what you hate."

..i think i've already extended my condolences.

OpieCunningham · 09-18-2004, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smooth

Watch very carefully to see if these crazy, medieval ideologies can supercede a very powerful, modern doctrine (conservativism; republicanism) and wipe rational discussion from public discourse. I hope it doesn't, and many republicans are starting to understand how retarded your thought processes are. I watch intelligent conservatives speak on shows and I read their writings. They make excellent points and logical, coherent arguments in support of their stance. I disagree with them, but their logic forces me to come to terms with their premises and conclusions. It's a bit daunting, but in here, where ridiculousness and spite reign, it's a waste to even engage you with logically built arguments--you don't reponds except with name calling and diversion. Your attention span slides like you claim your deity's does--as if it isn't constrained by spatial cause and effect. Following that, you have no real concept of which argument does or must precede the other, likewise for causal factors. You warp conclusions into premises and vice versa, retrospectively reinterpreting the past along with justifications that never were.

Absolutely correct.

I am also very concerned that the fringe elements (read: illogical trains of thought) of the conservatives have been pushed into the mainstream - creating an environment of debate which leads to nothing but complete nonsense.

When the most vocal of conservative voices on TFP consistently practices that which he consistently lambasts - blindness due to partisanship - and if he becomes to foundation of conservative debate - the entire process of conservative/liberal debate towards better understanding is fundamentally destroyed.

We need one less Ustwo and one more irateplatypus around here.

Ustwo · 09-18-2004, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerclown

"Covering My Ass in Advance", by John F. Kerry, future Democratic nominee for President.

Actually that was after Bill Clinton was elected and about Bill Clinton, my how his tune changes eh?

Flippity Floppity Floop.

matthew330 · 09-18-2004, 08:20 PM

Opie, we all have respect for irate. He's a different breed, that's right...he's different from YOU. He's different from me. He's different from UsTwo. You're approach to politics is no different than any of ours. I happen to agree with UsTwo, and UsTwo thankfully has more patience than me. For every UsTwo we have, count yourselves....every one of you has the same approach to politics, so don't try to put yourself on some higher plain. He has as much right to be here as anyone, and puts more thought into his post than most -just not apoligetically, so quit complaining.

archer2371 · 09-18-2004, 08:21 PM

The document may not have been produced on Word, it could have been produced on a word processor or a very, very expensive typewriter, although, most typewriters have what we call "Courier" as the font that types out on the paper, not Times New Roman. I looked at my Dad's discharge papers a few days after this stuff came up because I was curious (and bored as hell) and the type from his papers that he received in 1992, is consistent with the document on the left that Ustwo put up. The "th" is not in a superscript, and I figure if the Air Force hadn't changed their typewriting systems in twenty years, then why the inconsistencies? Personally, I think CBS did it to get ratings, because they are floundering, you know what they say, "Doesn't matter if you're getting good press or bad press, as long as your getting press."

OpieCunningham · 09-18-2004, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew330

For every UsTwo we have, count yourselves....every one of you has the same approach to politics, so don't try to put yourself on some higher plain. He has as much right to be here as anyone, and puts more thought into his post than most -just not apoligetically, so quit complaining.

The evidence of Ustwo's posts demostrates that you are incorrect.

He is consistently the first to stop presenting any information and start resorting to "you're just a blind partisan" or "you're incapable of understanding right now because you're so angry - maybe after the election" or "this is probably too advanced for TFP". And he is the first to bitch about it when anyone else does the same exact thing.

He has no desire to debtate - which requires listening to other people. He only wants you to either agree, or accept his declaration that you are an idiot.

His combination of pure arrogance and lack of any semblance of a logical thought process results in more stupid threads on this forum than any one else. And this is not true because he is a conservative and most around here are liberal - I have had debates with conservatives here which do not lead to the nonsense he champions.

27 times! he posted on this memo topic and he clearly did not bother to read any of the responses he received. And the result is this stupid thread right here. Pathetic.

filtherton · 09-18-2004, 08:31 PM

Once again, i win by not even playing.

matthew330 · 09-18-2004, 08:39 PM

I ain't UsTwo's bodyguard, i'm just saying.....UsTwo seems to me like a pretty smart guy, and articulates some great points, and if you really wanted to "debate" you'd be able to look past what you see as "arrogance" and address the points he's making.

Between Irate and OneTime, I'm pretty proud of the conservative representation we have on this board....but UsTwo is a breath of fresh air, a little "taste of your own medicine" if you will.

matthew330 · 09-18-2004, 08:41 PM

where are we going for our next beer filtherton?

matthew330 · 09-18-2004, 08:56 PM

"[why cast pearls before the swine]"

man i've heard tin-foil hat clicking heals together straw man debate tactics thrown all over the place.

What would were political science teacher call that one?

Zeld2.0 · 09-18-2004, 09:01 PM

You did just reply to yourself 3 times....

Any minute now....

seretogis · 09-18-2004, 09:03 PM

Take a look at the dates on the documents, as well. We are expected to believe that the 111th had an expensive electronic typewriter with superscript and Times New Roman capabilities in May of 72, and then DOWNGRADED them to shitty typewriters in September of 73 and have been using the shitty typewriters ever since? Right. Seeing those two documents next to each other should be enough to prove to anyone that the second is a forgery -- except those who are so foaming at the mouth with rage towards Bush that they can't see straight.

CBS did this for ratings, and to try to strike a blow against Bush. Rather's daughter is a very active Democrat, and was friendly with one of the "sources" that Rather had on the air. CBS has lost any shred of objectivity or credibility in my mind.

Superbelt · 09-18-2004, 09:22 PM

I believe they are allowed to have more than one typewriter on premises. And are not required to throw away old ones when they receive new.
Someone, preferably one of those who are hostile against the CBS documents, use MS word to reproduce any two lines of the CYA document and post it here so I can post the original next to it and tear apart all of the typographic differences that prove that MS doesn't have the font used in the document.

Please, this is a very real challenge and I don't think any of you have the cojones.

Paq · 09-18-2004, 09:33 PM

Ya know...I've been reading the politics board for some time and i think i have come to a conclusion:

UsTwo reminds me of Bush...he actually believes what he's saying...

The scary part is that there are those who follow suit...

Ustwo · 09-18-2004, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superbelt

I believe they are allowed to have more than one typewriter on premises. And are not required to throw away old ones when they receive new.

I think the most logical explanations are as follows.

1. The documents are forgeries.

or.....

2. A wormhole opened up in space and time, and a PC with MSword was sucked into that worm hole. It appeared on Mr. Killian's desk. No one was able to see it except for him of course being it was magically cloaked. He decided to test this thing by typing out some nasty things about president Bush but accidentally got the dates wrong, and used improper terms. Oh did I mention a printer was sucked back in time too? Anyways he managed to print it out, and then the worm holed opened up again and sucked the PC back with the documents. These were then found and given to CBS news.

Occams razor be damned! Sure everyone involved says they are fake, sure the general mentioned in them said he never helped out Bush. Sure the supposed writes own family says its bullshit but its LIES ALL LIES. CBS is innocent.

seretogis · 09-18-2004, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

2. A wormhole opened up in space and time, and a PC with MSword was sucked into that worm hole. It appeared on Mr. Killian's desk. No one was able to see it except for him of course being it was magically cloaked. He decided to test this thing by typing out some nasty things about president Bush but accidentally got the dates wrong, and used improper terms. Oh did I mention a printer was sucked back in time too? Anyways he managed to print it out, and then the worm holed opened up again and sucked the PC back with the documents. These were then found and given to CBS news.

That's not entirely implausible. In fact, tip off Dan Rather and I'm sure he'd stand firmly behind this theory.

OpieCunningham · 09-18-2004, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew330

I ain't UsTwo's bodyguard, i'm just saying.....UsTwo seems to me like a pretty smart guy, and articulates some great points, and if you really wanted to "debate" you'd be able to look past what you see as "arrogance" and address the points he's making.

And then they mimic him.

People do look past his pathetic and misguided arrogance and they attempt to debate him - and what happens? He tells them they're 'not ready for the truth' or they're 'blinded by partisanship'.

Why he doesn't just cut to the chase and put "If you don't take my posts as the god's honest undeniable truth, you are a fucking idiot" in his sig, I'll never know - but that's assuredly the sum total amount of room he leaves in his contributions to a discussion.

Ustwo · 09-18-2004, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpieCunningham

And then they mimic him.

People do look past his pathetic and misguided arrogance and they attempt to debate him - and what happens? He tells them they're 'not ready for the truth' or they're 'blinded by partisanship'.

Why he doesn't just cut to the chase and put "If you don't take my posts as the god's honest undeniable truth, you are a fucking idiot" in his sig, I'll never know - but that's assuredly the sum total amount of room he leaves in his contributions to a discussion.

You know Opie sometimes I get tired of beating people with a logic stick. When I do a multi-page original post and someone doesn't even take the time to read it before responding with the usual liberal line of crap, you will have to forgive me if I don't debate the same worthless, uninformed talking points spouted off by individuals with less knowledge of the subject then is required for an intelligent debate. I've always had amazingly high reading comprehension scores and perhaps that’s just a gift and I should take more time to let this material filter into some peoples skulls. Then again, in situations where someone posts a arrogant response which has already been answered in the original post, my patients wears thin, and I find its best to wait for a response more worthy of my time.

Paq · 09-18-2004, 11:53 PM

Umm...I think that's exactly what opie was trying to say about you, ustwo

View Poll Results: Why oh why?
CBS didn't care if they were fake, they wanted to hurt Bush.	18	48.65%
CBS was in such a hurry with the upcomming election they just overlooked it.	7	18.92%
CBS has had such poor ratings they took a risk.	6	16.22%
CBS is run by flying monkeys.	10	27.03%
The documents are authentic, pay no attention to the fonts.	9	24.32%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

09-18-2004, 04:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Ok now that I've seen the documents I am by no means a 'document' expert, but after having used MSword quite a bit, its even apparent to me these were made on MS word. I don't think there can be ANY doubt about this, I didn't know how pathetic this scam was. So whats your theory on WHY CBS would run with this story? __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

09-18-2004, 04:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
JBX Unfair and Imbalanced Location: Upstate, NY	CBS didn't care if they were fake, they wanted to hurt Bush. That's what I think. __________________ "Youth and Strength is no match for Age and Treachery"

09-18-2004, 04:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I saw one of them, but it was magnified in pdf format, but not being an expert I didn't decide to have a close look. I figured it was something technical not glaringly obvious and amazingly stupid. I gave CBS SOME credit, obviously it wasn't due. Obviously our titled left who defended the documents must not have looked at them either, as its so glaringly MSword. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

09-18-2004, 05:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Heh, God, you just completely ignored everything in that thread. Ooh and nice poll too. It's obvious they were made on MSWord? You know nothing and are just parroting someone else who was trying to discredit them. Type in 111th in ms. See where the th lines up. Not like in that document. Not even close. The th does not go past the top of the numbers in MSWord in superscripting. In the CBS document the th intersects the upper line of the numbers. Even manually shifting the th higher than the line (which takes additional steps that most people don't know about) keeps them visibly different from what the CBS document has. If you try to compare the font on the CBS documen to MSWord's Times New Roman there are many significant differences. So many claims that it was made in MSWord are laughable. I don't know if these are real or not, they may be reproductions of original documents. But I DO know they were not made in word. If they are forgeries, they were done using a typewriter. Smudges, imperfect strikes and the failure for all letters to line up on a razor edge makes this obivious to anyone who actually looked at them critically. Last edited by Superbelt; 09-18-2004 at 05:54 PM..

09-18-2004, 04:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
OpieCunningham Loser	So you're saying you posted 27 times (6 more than anyone else) in the CBS NEWS INVESTIGATION thread and you hadn't even looked at the documents in question? And now you focus on the variable-width font question which has already been demonstrated to be nonsense. You've got some balls.

09-18-2004, 05:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
OpieCunningham Loser	As our newest document + Mircosoft Word expert, Ustwo, maybe you can shed some light for us here - which of these two documents was produced in Microsoft Word a week ago and which was produced by an IBM typewriter in the early 1970's? For you, the difference should be glaringly obvious.

09-18-2004, 05:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	all wrangling aside... does anyone here on TFP still believe the memos to be genuine? __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

09-18-2004, 06:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
phukraut Addict	I haven't really followed this story closely, but I wonder why MS Word was considered the culprit, and not the endless number of other programs? Can anyone shed any light? I suspect you can make a very convincing typewriter forgery in a LaTeX system for example.

09-18-2004, 06:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	I don't know. I am not a document expert. I can absolutely say though, it wasn't done with a computer. If they are forgeries someone went to the expense to find a period typewriter to do them on. If they are not genuine, they may be reproductions to hide who released them. The secretary has already said that all of these documents contain information she has typed up for Killian before. Because of that I believe them not to just be some documents someone made up to slander Bush. The info is real so they must have come from real sources. Other than that, I will wait for experts to certify them.

09-18-2004, 06:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	Can anyone answer this question for me: Why is is that every time i hear about this story i keep hearing in the back of my head "hanging chads, hanging chads"?

09-18-2004, 06:35 PM	#15 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	"follow the leader" precisely....how long was it that Bush was in office before they were yelling "impeach him." Funny shit. and i'm sorry...who made a big deal of Kerry's military experience?" Last edited by matthew330; 09-18-2004 at 06:42 PM..

09-18-2004, 07:30 PM	#17 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	you never listened to President Bush's rationale for war, and you never will, that much is clear. Go find yourself a little soundbite to Kerry's opening line in his speech at the democratic convention....something to the effect of "Reporting for duty, again." What a joke, and your still gonna tell me he's not the one making a big deal of his valiant 4 months in Vietnam, where he racked up 3 puple hearts, one silver star, and something that had bronze in it...on a fucking swift boat. a lil reminder...the average tour in Vietnam was 18 months, and he managed all this in 4 months. So it's either Kerry should have single handedly won that war, or he's a fucking joke. You'll never come to terms with the latter, nor will you come to terms with the correct answer to this poll. My condolences.

09-18-2004, 07:45 PM	#19 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	there is no correct answer to this poll. [why cast pearls before the swine] __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman Last edited by smooth; 09-18-2004 at 08:13 PM..

09-18-2004, 07:52 PM	#21 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	I have a diety?...killer. the more i think about it...that shit is fuckin sweet!! Last edited by matthew330; 09-18-2004 at 07:54 PM..

09-18-2004, 08:10 PM	#22 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	and smooth, just out of curiousity, who are these conservatives you watch and read that you hold in such high regard? Aside from McCain, i can't remeber the last public figure representing republican theory that liberals made out to be anything more than some christian right war mongering wack-job. Chalk me up as one of them. Also chalk me up as one who never gave you any indication religion was a part of my life, but you stereotyped me as one who's religion defined their philosophy. Nothing could be further from the truth. And i thought you guys hated "stereotypes." In Rush Limbaugh's words "You have become what you hate." ..i think i've already extended my condolences. Last edited by matthew330; 09-18-2004 at 08:14 PM..

09-18-2004, 08:20 PM	#25 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	Opie, we all have respect for irate. He's a different breed, that's right...he's different from YOU. He's different from me. He's different from UsTwo. You're approach to politics is no different than any of ours. I happen to agree with UsTwo, and UsTwo thankfully has more patience than me. For every UsTwo we have, count yourselves....every one of you has the same approach to politics, so don't try to put yourself on some higher plain. He has as much right to be here as anyone, and puts more thought into his post than most -just not apoligetically, so quit complaining.

09-18-2004, 08:21 PM	#26 (permalink)
archer2371 Sarge of Blood Gulch Red Outpost Number One Location: On the front lines against our very enemy	The document may not have been produced on Word, it could have been produced on a word processor or a very, very expensive typewriter, although, most typewriters have what we call "Courier" as the font that types out on the paper, not Times New Roman. I looked at my Dad's discharge papers a few days after this stuff came up because I was curious (and bored as hell) and the type from his papers that he received in 1992, is consistent with the document on the left that Ustwo put up. The "th" is not in a superscript, and I figure if the Air Force hadn't changed their typewriting systems in twenty years, then why the inconsistencies? Personally, I think CBS did it to get ratings, because they are floundering, you know what they say, "Doesn't matter if you're getting good press or bad press, as long as your getting press." __________________ "This ain't no Ice Cream Social!" "Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it." "I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

09-18-2004, 08:31 PM	#28 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Once again, i win by not even playing.

09-18-2004, 08:39 PM	#29 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	I ain't UsTwo's bodyguard, i'm just saying.....UsTwo seems to me like a pretty smart guy, and articulates some great points, and if you really wanted to "debate" you'd be able to look past what you see as "arrogance" and address the points he's making. Between Irate and OneTime, I'm pretty proud of the conservative representation we have on this board....but UsTwo is a breath of fresh air, a little "taste of your own medicine" if you will.

09-18-2004, 08:41 PM	#30 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	where are we going for our next beer filtherton?

09-18-2004, 08:56 PM	#31 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	"[why cast pearls before the swine]" man i've heard tin-foil hat clicking heals together straw man debate tactics thrown all over the place. What would were political science teacher call that one?

09-18-2004, 09:01 PM	#32 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	You did just reply to yourself 3 times.... Any minute now....

09-18-2004, 09:03 PM	#33 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	Take a look at the dates on the documents, as well. We are expected to believe that the 111th had an expensive electronic typewriter with superscript and Times New Roman capabilities in May of 72, and then DOWNGRADED them to shitty typewriters in September of 73 and have been using the shitty typewriters ever since? Right. Seeing those two documents next to each other should be enough to prove to anyone that the second is a forgery -- except those who are so foaming at the mouth with rage towards Bush that they can't see straight. CBS did this for ratings, and to try to strike a blow against Bush. Rather's daughter is a very active Democrat, and was friendly with one of the "sources" that Rather had on the air. CBS has lost any shred of objectivity or credibility in my mind. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

09-18-2004, 09:22 PM	#34 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	I believe they are allowed to have more than one typewriter on premises. And are not required to throw away old ones when they receive new. Someone, preferably one of those who are hostile against the CBS documents, use MS word to reproduce any two lines of the CYA document and post it here so I can post the original next to it and tear apart all of the typographic differences that prove that MS doesn't have the font used in the document. Please, this is a very real challenge and I don't think any of you have the cojones. Last edited by Superbelt; 09-18-2004 at 09:33 PM..

09-18-2004, 09:33 PM	#35 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	Ya know...I've been reading the politics board for some time and i think i have come to a conclusion: UsTwo reminds me of Bush...he actually believes what he's saying... The scary part is that there are those who follow suit... __________________ Live. Chris

09-18-2004, 11:53 PM	#40 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	Umm...I think that's exactly what opie was trying to say about you, ustwo __________________ Live. Chris