Anyone see Zel Miller pretty much challenge Chris Matthews to a duel? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dy156 · 09-02-2004, 05:18 AM

He must have been pretty fired up. On Hardball after the speeches, he and Matthews really got into it. I think part of it was a bad mic or something, but Chris Matthews was trying to make a point about how lots of elected official in the legislative branch cast votes either for or against packaged legislation for a variety of reasons, and isn't it just as unfair to criticize Kerry for voting against military spending as it is for liberals to say republicans are trying to starve poor children when the vote for cuts in education spending or for welfare reforms or something.

I don't think Miller heard him correctly, cause he said something along the lines of: (paraphrased)
"I never said anything about starving children! How dare you accuse me of something like that, why, you'd better be glad you're so far away, otherwise I'd come over there and whoop your ass!"

It was hilarious. However, I think it was bad that he looked like such a grumpy old nut, because anyone who saw that interview would be likely to discount some of the valid points he made in his speech as just coming from an angry old man that has lost it.

Overall, though I was disappointed in Cheney's speech, it was a very effective, though by no means pretty night for the Republicans. I wonder whether the Republicans were trying to fire up their base, or get undecideds and Kerry supporters to start questioning him. I think it was probably a night that did both for those who watched it. I bet some people that saw those speeches will start to wonder about Kerry, and I bet the Republican base will be really fired up. In this era of division, with razor thin margins, firing up your base might be more important.

(pet peeve confession: those on both sides who care about politics but don't watch the other side's convention! I watch both of them, but many republicans didn't watch any of the Democratic convention, and I expect that the converse is true.)

seretogis · 09-02-2004, 05:26 AM

Speaking of Zell Miller, here is the text of his speech:

Quote:

Text of Zell Miller's Speech at RNC
Wed Sep 1,10:13 PM ET

By The Associated Press

Text of speech by Democratic Sen. Zell Miller of Georgia as prepared for delivery Wednesday at the Republican National Convention:

Since I last stood in this spot, a whole new generation of the Miller Family has been born: Four great grandchildren.

Along with all the other members of our close-knit family, they are my and Shirley's most precious possessions.

And I know that's how you feel about your family also. Like you, I think of their future, the promises and the perils they will face.

Like you, I believe that the next four years will determine what kind of world they will grow up in.

And like you, I ask which leader is it today that has the vision, the willpower and, yes, the backbone to best protect my family?

The clear answer to that question has placed me in this hall with you tonight. For my family is more important than my party.

There is but one man to whom I am willing to entrust their future and that man's name is George Bush.

In the summer of 1940, I was an 8-year-old boy living in a remote little Appalachian valley. Our country was not yet at war, but even we children knew that there were some crazy men across the ocean who would kill us if they could.

President Roosevelt, in his speech that summer, told America "all private plans, all private lives, have been in a sense repealed by an overriding public danger."

In 1940, Wendell Wilkie was the Republican nominee.

And there is no better example of someone repealing their "private plans" than this good man. He gave Roosevelt the critical support he needed for a peacetime draft, an unpopular idea at the time.

And he made it clear that he would rather lose the election than make national security a partisan campaign issue.

Shortly before Wilkie died, he told a friend, that if he could write his own epitaph and had to choose between "here lies a president" or "here lies one who contributed to saving freedom," he would prefer the latter.

Where are such statesmen today?

Where is the bipartisanship in this country when we need it most?

Now, while young Americans are dying in the sands of Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan, our nation is being torn apart and made weaker because of the Democrat's manic obsession to bring down our Commander in Chief.

What has happened to the party I've spent my life working in?

I can remember when Democrats believed that it was the duty of America to fight for freedom over tyranny.

It was Democratic President Harry Truman who pushed the Red Army out of Iran, who came to the aid of Greece when Communists threatened to overthrow it, who stared down the Soviet blockade of West Berlin by flying in supplies and saving the city.

Time after time in our history, in the face of great danger, Democrats and Republicans worked together to ensure that freedom would not falter. But not today.

Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator.

And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators.

Tell that to the one-half of Europe that was freed because Franklin Roosevelt led an army of liberators, not occupiers.

Tell that to the lower half of the Korean Peninsula that is free because Dwight Eisenhower commanded an army of liberators, not occupiers.

Tell that to the half a billion men, women and children who are free today from the Baltics to the Crimea, from Poland to Siberia, because Ronald Reagan rebuilt a military of liberators, not occupiers.

Never in the history of the world has any soldier sacrificed more for the freedom and liberty of total strangers than the American soldier. And, our soldiers don't just give freedom abroad, they preserve it for us here at home.

For it has been said so truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest.

It is the soldier who salutes the flag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who gives that protester the freedom to abuse and burn that flag.

No one should dare to even think about being the Commander in Chief of this country if he doesn't believe with all his heart that our soldiers are liberators abroad and defenders of freedom at home.

But don't waste your breath telling that to the leaders of my party today. In their warped way of thinking America is the problem, not the solution.

They don't believe there is any real danger in the world except that which America brings upon itself through our clumsy and misguided foreign policy.

It is not their patriotism - it is their judgment that has been so sorely lacking. They claimed Carter's pacifism would lead to peace.

They were wrong.

They claimed Reagan's defense buildup would lead to war.

They were wrong.

And, no pair has been more wrong, more loudly, more often than the two Senators from Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.

Together, Kennedy/Kerry have opposed the very weapons system that won the Cold War and that is now winning the War on Terror.

Listing all the weapon systems that Senator Kerry tried his best to shut down sounds like an auctioneer selling off our national security but Americans need to know the facts.

The B-1 bomber, that Senator Kerry opposed, dropped 40 percent of the bombs in the first six months of Operation Enduring Freedom.

The B-2 bomber, that Senator Kerry opposed, delivered air strikes against the Taliban in Afghanistan and Hussein's command post in Iraq.

The F-14A Tomcats, that Senator Kerry opposed, shot down Khadifi's Libyan MIGs over the Gulf of Sidra. The modernized F-14D, that Senator Kerry opposed, delivered missile strikes against Tora Bora.

The Apache helicopter, that Senator Kerry opposed, took out those Republican Guard tanks in Kuwait in the Gulf War. The F-15 Eagles, that Senator Kerry opposed, flew cover over our Nation's Capital and this very city after 9/11.

I could go on and on and on: against the Patriot Missile that shot down Saddam Hussein's scud missiles over Israel; against the Aegis air-defense cruiser; against the Strategic Defense Initiative; against the Trident missile; against, against, against.

This is the man who wants to be the Commander in Chief of our U.S. Armed Forces?

U.S. forces armed with what? Spitballs?

Twenty years of votes can tell you much more about a man than twenty weeks of campaign rhetoric.

Campaign talk tells people who you want them to think you are. How you vote tells people who you really are deep inside.

Senator Kerry has made it clear that he would use military force only if approved by the United Nations.

Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending.

I want Bush to decide.

John Kerry, who says he doesn't like outsourcing, wants to outsource our national security.

That's the most dangerous outsourcing of all. This politician wants to be leader of the free world.

Free for how long?

For more than 20 years, on every one of the great issues of freedom and security, John Kerry has been more wrong, more weak and more wobbly than any other national figure.

As a war protester, Kerry blamed our military.

As a Senator, he voted to weaken our military. And nothing shows that more sadly and more clearly than his vote this year to deny protective armor for our troops in harms way, far away.

George Bush understands that we need new strategies to meet new threats.

John Kerry wants to re-fight yesterday's war. George Bush bel> ieves we have to fight today's war and be ready for tomorrow's challenges. George Bush is committed to providing the kind of forces it takes to root out terrorists.

No matter what spider hole they may hide in or what rock they crawl under.

George Bush wants to grab terrorists by the throat and not let them go to get a better grip.

From John Kerry, they get a "yes-no-maybe" bowl of mush that can only encourage our enemies and confuse our friends.

I first got to know George Bush when we served as governors together. I admire this man. I am moved by the respect he shows the first lady, his unabashed love for his parents and his daughters, and the fact that he is unashamed of his belief that God is not indifferent to America.

I can identify with someone who has lived that line in "Amazing Grace," "Was blind, but now I see," and I like the fact that he's the same man on Saturday night that he is on Sunday morning.

He is not a slick talker but he is a straight shooter and, where I come from, deeds mean a lot more than words.

I have knocked on the door of this man's soul and found someone home, a God-fearing man with a good heart and a spine of tempered steel.

The man I trust to protect my most precious possession: my family.

This election will change forever the course of history, and that's not any history. It's our family's history.

The only question is how. The answer lies with each of us. And, like many generations before us, we've got some hard choosing to do.

Right now the world just cannot afford an indecisive America. Fainthearted self-indulgence will put at risk all we care about in this world.

In this hour of danger our President has had the courage to stand up. And this Democrat is proud to stand up with him.

Thank you.

God Bless this great country and God Bless George W. Bush.

Superbelt · 09-02-2004, 05:53 AM

I only heard clips on my way into work today on NPR, what I heard was far from pretty. It was loud, angry and the kind of tone that (I think) turns people away.

Miller has proven himself to be a nut and I think the high negativity is turning people off.
For me it happened when I saw the purple heart band-aids. I think for many swing voters the constant attacks on Kerry by prime time speakers is going to make them ignore it as well. I know this is my biased view, but its becoming pretty clear that Negative attitudes is a liability to candidates.

Republicans need to get positive and start saying what they WILL do. Not bashing who they are against. Ted Kennedy's speech brought down the whole Dem convention for me. It shouldn't have been there.
This election is turning into one where everyone is going to be voting AGAINST someone.
It's obvious that Kerry set himself up as the Not-Bush. And many people will be voting for him for that fact.

It's not Bush v. Anybody but Bush anymore. It's Anybody but Kerry v. Anybody but Bush.
That's how negative everything has become.

rukkyg · 09-02-2004, 05:56 AM

CNN also was questioning him after the convention on some other show. The interviewer asked about how Cheney had voted against a lot of the same things Kerry voted against. And also, that Kerry voted for a lot of other defense things... alternatives to, for example, the B-2.
All I hear about Kerry is how he didn't vote for this or that, when in reality he had a good reason to not vote for what he didn't vote for, and that the number of similar things he voted is larger than what he didn't vote for.

Superbelt · 09-02-2004, 06:23 AM

The contrast between the RNC Convention speech, (Printed above) And this speech Miller gave while introducing Kerry 3 years ago.

Quote:

I continue to be impressed with all that Governor Barnes and Lieutenant Governor Taylor and the Speaker and the General Assembly are getting done over at the Gold Dome. Georgia is fortunate to have this kind of leadership.

My job tonight is an easy one: to present to you one of this nation's authentic heroes, one of this party's best-known and greatest leaders – and a good friend.

He was once a lieutenant governor – but he didn't stay in that office 16 years, like someone else I know. It just took two years before the people of Massachusetts moved him into the United States Senate in 1984.

In his 16 years in the Senate, John Kerry has fought against government waste and worked hard to bring some accountability to Washington.

Early in his Senate career in 1986, John signed on to the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Deficit Reduction Bill, and he fought for balanced budgets before it was considered politically correct for Democrats to do so.

John has worked to strengthen our military, reform public education, boost the economy and protect the environment. Business Week magazine named him one of the top pro-technology legislators and made him a member of its "Digital Dozen."

John was re-elected in 1990 and again in 1996 – when he defeated popular Republican Governor William Weld in the most closely watched Senate race in the country.

John is a graduate of Yale University and was a gunboat officer in the Navy. He received a Silver Star, Bronze Star and three awards of the Purple Heart for combat duty in Vietnam. He later co-founded the Vietnam Veterans of America.

By the way, it's still on Zell's website.
http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/030101jjdinner.htm

Methinks there's a bit of inconsistency

Contrast that with this....

Quote:

And, no pair has been more wrong, more loudly, more often than the two Senators from Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.

Together, Kennedy/Kerry have opposed the very weapons system that won the Cold War and that is now winning the War on Terror.

Listing all the weapon systems that Senator Kerry tried his best to shut down sounds like an auctioneer selling off our national security but Americans need to know the facts.

...

This is the man who wants to be the Commander in Chief of our U.S. Armed Forces?

...

Twenty years of votes can tell you much more about a man than twenty weeks of campaign rhetoric.
You PRAISED those years recently you total jackass.

...

As a war protester, Kerry blamed our military.

As a Senator, he voted to weaken our military. And nothing shows that more sadly and more clearly than his vote this year to deny protective armor for our troops in harms way, far away.

Quote:

Originally Said by Zig Zag Zell
And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators.

Bush did that too jackass.

______
Really, read both and then all you can say is WTF? Every single thing he praised Kerry for in 2001 he bashed him for later. Even for creating Vietnam Veterans of America, which has always been against the Vietnam War, he first praised him for it, then bashed him for it. Zell is a total fucker who will say anything to get his new owners approval. It's proven in these two speeches right here. The speeches read like they came from two completely different minds. Zell has his head so far up Bush's ass the silver spoon is in his nose.

guthmund · 09-02-2004, 06:31 AM

I didn't watch the actual speech, but I seen the aftermath with Chris Matthews.

It was like a car accident. I knew I wanted to change the channel, but just couldn't make myself do it. It was both horrible and extremely funny. He was implying that the only reason Matthews asked the questions he was asking was because he was too far away for Miller to kick his ass. Too funny

There came a point when watching Mr. Miller the image of Abe Simpson came to mind and all I could hear was MATLOCK! MATLOCK! YOU'VE GOT MY PILLS!

Seriously, I don't really watch the conventions. They seem like this great big organized love fest/circle jerk and that disinterests me. Lining up veterans to speak on Kerry's behalf, the whole "reporting for duty" schtick, purple heart band-aids and the whole flip-flop footwear props just don't seem to catch my attention. Well, they do, but they certainly don't persuade me to go out and vote. In fact, if anything, it accomplishes just the opposite.

Mr. Miller did everything but persuade the swing voters to vote. He came off as an irrascible old coot who the Republicans slapped a microphone in front of because he's a "converted" Democrat. It was a poor speech and the antics afterwards should have been embarassing.....for everybody.

Superbelt · 09-02-2004, 06:59 AM

People that Make Zell Miller as mad as he can possibly be: George W. Bush, Condi Rice, Scott McClellan.

"On June 30th, the Coalition Provisional Authority will cease to exist, and will not be replaced. The occupation will end, and Iraqis will govern their own affairs." —George W. Bush

"There has been among most of the members of the international community, both those who were part of the coalition and those who were not, a sense that it was extremely important to end the occupation, to have the transfer of full sovereignty to the Iraqis.... One interesting point is that poll after poll after poll shows that while, obviously, the Iraqis don't like occupation, nobody would, that the one thing they remain tremendously focused on, the largest demonstrations that have been Iraq have been to have elections." —Condoleezza Rice

"It recognizes the end of the occupation and the beginning of sovereignty for the Iraqi people." —Scott McClellan

powerclown · 09-02-2004, 08:01 AM

The guy needs to be placed in a straitjacket, sedated, then lowered into a barcalounger for the reminder of his days.

That was quite a spectacle. Redefined the word "mean-spirited", and totally uncalled for on the part of the republicans. Anyone notice bush sr. slowly shaking his head during the speech lol??

scout · 09-02-2004, 08:48 AM

Only thing I can say is it may have been all a line of bullshit, but it was a pretty damn well delivered speech. Shit, by the time he was done, if I had been required to vote at that moment without any further time to think about it, I woulda voted Zell Miller right into the White House lol.

Scipio · 09-02-2004, 10:55 AM

The relevant challenge; it's funny as hell, really, and quite strange.

Quote:

MSNBC Transcripts: 'Hardball with Chris Matthews' for Sept. 1
Guests: Zell Miller, Bob Taft, J.C. Watts, Jon Meacham
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5892840/

[snip]

MATTHEWS: Well, let me ask you, when Democrats come out, as they often do, liberal Democrats, and attack conservatives, and say they want to starve little kids, they want to get rid of education, they want to kill the old people...

MILLER: I am not saying that. Wait a minute.

MATTHEWS: That kind of rhetoric is not educational, is it?

MILLER: Wait a minute.

Now, this is your program. And I am a guest on your program.

MATTHEWS: Yes, sir.

MILLER: And so I want to try to be as nice as I possibly can to you. I wish I was over there, where I could get a little closer up into your face.

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: But I don‘t have to stand here and listen to that kind of stuff. I didn‘t say anything about not feeding poor kids. What are you doing?

MATTHEWS: No, I‘m saying that when you said tonight—I just want you to...

MILLER: Well, you are saying a bunch of baloney that didn‘t have anything to do with what I said up there on the

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: No, no.

MATTHEWS: OK. Do you believe now—do you believe, Senator, truthfully, that John Kerry wants to defend the country with spitballs? Do you believe that?

MILLER: That was a metaphor, wasn‘t it? Do you know what a metaphor is?

MATTHEWS: Well, what do you mean by a metaphor?

MILLER: Wait a minute. He certainly does not want to defend the country with the B-1 bomber or the B-2 bomber or the Harrier jet or the Apache helicopter or all those other things that I mentioned. And there were even more of them in here.

You‘ve got to quit taking these Democratic talking points and using what they are saying to you.

MATTHEWS: No, I am using your talking points and asking you if you really believe them.

MILLER: Well, use John Kerry‘s talking points from the—from what he has had to say on the floor of the Senate, where he talked about them being occupiers, where he put out this whenever he was running for the U.S. Senate about what he wanted to cancel. Cancel to me means to do away with.

MATTHEWS: Well, what did you mean by the following.

MILLER: I think we ought to cancel this interview.

MATTHEWS: Well, I don‘t mean...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Well, that would be my loss, Senator. That would be my loss.

Let me ask you about this, because I think you have a view on the role of reporters in the world. You have said and it has often been said so truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. Was there not...

MILLER: Do you believe that?

MATTHEWS: Well, of course it‘s true.

MILLER: Do you believe that?

MATTHEWS: But it‘s a statement that nobody would have challenged. Why did you make it? It seems like no one would deny what you said. So what‘s your point?

MILLER: Well, it evidently got a rise out of you.

MATTHEWS: Well, I think it‘s a

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: Because you are a reporter.

MATTHEWS: That‘s right.

MILLER: You didn‘t have anything to do with freedom of the press.

MATTHEWS: Well, you could argue it was not nurses who defended the freedom of nursing. Why did you single out freedom of the press to say it was the soldiers that defended it and not the reporters? We all know that. Why did you say it?

MILLER: Well, because I thought it needed to be said at this particular time, because I wanted to come on...

MATTHEWS: Because you could get an applause line against the media at a conservative convention.

MILLER: No, I said it because it was—you‘re hopeless. I wish I was over there.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: In fact, I wish that we lived in—I wish we lived in the day

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: I‘ve got to warn you, we are in a tough part of town over here.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MATTHEWS: But I do recommend you come over, because I like you.

Let me tell you this.

MILLER: Chris.

MATTHEWS: If a Republican Senator broke ranks and—all right, I‘m sorry.

A Republican Senator broke ranks and came over and spoke for the Democrats, would you respect him?

MILLER: Yes, of course I would.

MATTHEWS: Why?

MILLER: I have seen that happen from time to time. Look, I believe...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: What does Jim Jeffords say to you?

MILLER: Wait a minute.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Jim Jeffords switched parties after getting elected.

MILLER: If you‘re going to ask a question...

MATTHEWS: Well, it‘s a tough question. It takes a few words.

MILLER: Get out of my face.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MILLER: If you are going to ask me a question, step back and let me answer.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Senator, please.

MILLER: You know, I wish we...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MILLER: I wish we lived in the day where you could challenge a person to a duel.

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: Now, that would be pretty good.

Don‘t ask me—don‘t pull that...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Can you can come over? I need you, Senator. Please come over.

MILLER: Wait a minute. Don‘t pull that kind of stuff on me, like you did that young lady when you had her there, browbeating her to death. I am not her. I am not her.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Let me tell you, she was suggesting that John Kerry purposely shot himself to win a medal. And I was trying to correct the record.

MILLER: You get in my face, I am going to get back in your face.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER:The only reason you are doing it is because you are standing way over there in Herald Square.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Senator, Senator, can I speak softly to you? I would really like you to...

MILLER: What? No, no, no, because you won‘t give me a chance to answer. You ask these questions and then you just talk over what I am trying to answer, just like you did that woman the other day.

MATTHEWS: Well, Senator...

MILLER: I don‘t know why I even came on this program.

MATTHEWS: Well, I am glad you did.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you this about John Kerry‘s war record.

MILLER: Well, are you going to shut up after you ask me?

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: Or are you going to give me a hance to answer it?

Delvid · 09-02-2004, 11:46 AM

Sounds like the old nut job had a major meltdown. Sorry I missed it.

maximusveritas · 09-02-2004, 12:45 PM

I don't know what the Republicans were thinking when they sent Zell out there as the keynote speaker. Did they think he would suddenly gain his sanity and give a thoughtful, moderate speech? Zell is a far-right extremist who should have left the Democratic party in the 60s like the rest of his kind. If the Democrats had any brains or balls, they would have kicked him out long ago. Getting an extra seat is not worth having a nut like this guy in your party.

Rdr4evr · 09-02-2004, 01:03 PM

Quote:

U.S. forces armed with what? Spitballs?

What an infantile fool. He is talking this way about a man who fought to serve his country while at the same time defending the coward hiding behind Daddy. Although I dont care much for Kerry, the man deserves more respect than making an assumption that he will defend the country with "spitballs".

And how about Cheney arguing that he knows more about war than Kerry...although he has never fought in one.

Funny how no mention of Bin Laden or WMD's were in his speech. Since no progress has been made on anything, all they can do is bash Kerry. Pathetic, all of them.

nanofever · 09-02-2004, 11:54 PM

I win....

Zell miller getting his ass handed to him by CNN: http://bushlies2.us/video/zell_miller_cnn.mpg

Zell Miller flipping out on MSNBC:http://bushlies2.us/video/zell_miller_msnbc.mpg

hammer4all · 09-03-2004, 12:57 AM

Republicans distance themselves from Miller...

Quote:

After gauging the harsh reaction from Democrats and Republicans alike to Sen. Zell Miller’s keynote address at the Republican National Convention, the Bush campaign — led by the first lady — backed away Thursday from Miller’s savage attack on Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, insisting that the estranged Democrat was speaking only for himself.

Late Thursday, Miller and his wife were removed from the list of dignitaries who would be sitting in the first family’s box during the president’s acceptance speech later in the evening. Scott Stanzel, a spokesman for the Bush campaign, said Miller was not in the box because the campaign had scheduled him to do too many television interviews.

There was no explanation, however, for why Miller would be giving multiple interviews during Bush’s acceptance speech, or what channels would snub the president in favor of Miller. Nor was it made clear why Miller’s wife also was not allowed to take her place in the president’s box 24 hours after his deeply personal denunciation of his own party’s nominee.

The change was made only a few hours after Laura Bush, asked about Miller’s speech, said in an interview with NBC News that “I don’t know that we share that point of view.” Aides to President Bush and his campaign said Miller was not speaking for all Republicans.

GOP backs away from Miller’s blast

Kadath · 09-03-2004, 04:29 AM

Looks like they learned from the '92 convention.

Hanxter · 09-03-2004, 04:38 AM

matthews is a gas bag - i really think he gets paid by the word

silent_jay · 09-03-2004, 07:01 AM

Miller should calm down before he strokes out or something.

bodymassage3 · 09-03-2004, 07:18 AM

Those videos are quite entertaining..especially the CNN one.

"I've got more documentation here than the Library of Congress and the New York Public Library put together on that."

Haha. Put down a group of people for either their voting records and/or words they use to describe the war in Iraq, get shown that the group you are supporting voted similarly and used the exact words you detest (by the President and Vice President, nonetheless), and all of the sudden "I'm not talking about them." Textbook.

He then goes on to say that he cannot speak for Dick Cheney's record - he can speak for himself, because Miller isn't Dick Cheney. Ironically, he can speak for John Kerry and his record. Personally, point out inconsistancies in someone's record(s) all you want, but don't deny the record of your supportees if you're going to slam the opposition's.

filtherton · 09-03-2004, 09:03 AM

Quote:

MATTHEWS: Senator, Senator, can I speak softly to you? I would really like you to...

sounds romantic.

irateplatypus · 09-03-2004, 09:41 AM

i wish miller had been less virulent but...

if anyone is going to get chewed out by a politician, i'm glad it's chris mathews. that guy has gone off the deep end. his show is in ruins... i'm unable to watch him because he tries to talk over people the entire time. frustrating.

sorry the argument had to happen. but since it did... glad it happened to mathews.

pan6467 · 09-03-2004, 09:51 AM

I watched Zell Miller for awhile. I found him very divisive, very angry and hard to really follow. All I saw was an angry old man that seemingly had a score to settle and this was his way of doing such.

Could it be Zell Miller wanted on Kerry's ticket and since he isn't he has sour grapes?

McCain on NBC right after Miller's speech was great and he told it how it was, the Dems. aren't anti-patriotic, Kerry would make a good Commander in Chief and Miller is just trying to get his name out there so he can be the Right wing press's McCain.

As for the Matthews/Miller escapade, made for great press, brought attention to Matthews' show and Miller's hatred and got people talking about both for much longer than they need discussing..... couldn't have been too bad for either Miller or Matthews.

BTW I did see Bush's speech and some of it was very good, he did have me thinking maybe I needed to change my support. Then he talked of values and religion and such and I realized the same programs he talked about last night he talked about doing 4 years ago and DID NOTHING.

Overall, the GOP speeches I saw were as hate filled, finger pointing as the GOP claims the Dems were.

Superbelt · 09-03-2004, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irateplatypus

i wish miller had been less virulent but...

if anyone is going to get chewed out by a politician, i'm glad it's chris mathews. that guy has gone off the deep end. his show is in ruins... i'm unable to watch him because he tries to talk over people the entire time. frustrating.

sorry the argument had to happen. but since it did... glad it happened to mathews.

More than Hannity or O'Reilly?
C'mon. If Matthews is bad, those two mastered the art of drowning others out.

Seaver · 09-03-2004, 10:25 AM

Quote:

More than Hannity or O'Reilly?

I agree on Hannity, I hate that guy and can't stand to even hear the show on the background. O'Reilly at least gives people some respect who go on the show, and dont avoid questions. Hell look at when Moore came on, it stayed calm and professional because he answered the damn questions asked.

Seaver · 09-03-2004, 10:25 AM

Quote:

More than Hannity or O'Reilly?

I agree on Hannity, I hate that guy and can't stand to even hear the show on the background. O'Reilly at least gives people some respect who go on the show, and dont avoid questions. Hell look at when Moore came on, it stayed calm and professional because he answered the damn questions asked.

Superbelt · 09-03-2004, 11:03 AM

That's true. I can marginally respect O'Reilly. But he has his moments.

Scipio · 09-03-2004, 11:29 AM

The individual talk show hosts don't bother me that much. My biggest problem is when they have an unbalanced three person panel. One guy's a republican strategist/speechwriter. One's a republican elected official, like some random congressman. The third is a "journalist" from the WSJ or Washington Times (essentially a conservative masquerading as an independant).

mml · 09-03-2004, 12:29 PM

Zell is just a really pissed off old man. He has been a solid politican and public servant for many years, but he has grown dissallusioned with the leadership of the Democratic Party. Over the years, he has supported and endorsed John Kerry on innumerable occations, and even hinted that Kerry was the man he hoped would win during the primaries (I am trying to find the quote). Miller is simply fed up with Tom Daschle and Terry McCauliff(me too). He was much better suited for the duties of a Governor, rather than the deliberative and often conniving nature of the Senate. He would be just as disguested with the Republican leadership if he saw their innerworkings. This frustration has simmered for quite a while and has now boiled over. He has gotten so overheated, that he is striking out at the most visible target in the party. It is either this or he a bigger flip flopper than George Bush. At least this is my opinion.

09-02-2004, 05:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
dy156 cookie Location: in the backwoods	Anyone see Zel Miller pretty much challenge Chris Matthews to a duel? He must have been pretty fired up. On Hardball after the speeches, he and Matthews really got into it. I think part of it was a bad mic or something, but Chris Matthews was trying to make a point about how lots of elected official in the legislative branch cast votes either for or against packaged legislation for a variety of reasons, and isn't it just as unfair to criticize Kerry for voting against military spending as it is for liberals to say republicans are trying to starve poor children when the vote for cuts in education spending or for welfare reforms or something. I don't think Miller heard him correctly, cause he said something along the lines of: (paraphrased) "I never said anything about starving children! How dare you accuse me of something like that, why, you'd better be glad you're so far away, otherwise I'd come over there and whoop your ass!" It was hilarious. However, I think it was bad that he looked like such a grumpy old nut, because anyone who saw that interview would be likely to discount some of the valid points he made in his speech as just coming from an angry old man that has lost it. Overall, though I was disappointed in Cheney's speech, it was a very effective, though by no means pretty night for the Republicans. I wonder whether the Republicans were trying to fire up their base, or get undecideds and Kerry supporters to start questioning him. I think it was probably a night that did both for those who watched it. I bet some people that saw those speeches will start to wonder about Kerry, and I bet the Republican base will be really fired up. In this era of division, with razor thin margins, firing up your base might be more important. (pet peeve confession: those on both sides who care about politics but don't watch the other side's convention! I watch both of them, but many republicans didn't watch any of the Democratic convention, and I expect that the converse is true.)

09-02-2004, 06:31 AM	#6 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	I didn't watch the actual speech, but I seen the aftermath with Chris Matthews. It was like a car accident. I knew I wanted to change the channel, but just couldn't make myself do it. It was both horrible and extremely funny. He was implying that the only reason Matthews asked the questions he was asking was because he was too far away for Miller to kick his ass. Too funny There came a point when watching Mr. Miller the image of Abe Simpson came to mind and all I could hear was MATLOCK! MATLOCK! YOU'VE GOT MY PILLS! Seriously, I don't really watch the conventions. They seem like this great big organized love fest/circle jerk and that disinterests me. Lining up veterans to speak on Kerry's behalf, the whole "reporting for duty" schtick, purple heart band-aids and the whole flip-flop footwear props just don't seem to catch my attention. Well, they do, but they certainly don't persuade me to go out and vote. In fact, if anything, it accomplishes just the opposite. Mr. Miller did everything but persuade the swing voters to vote. He came off as an irrascible old coot who the Republicans slapped a microphone in front of because he's a "converted" Democrat. It was a poor speech and the antics afterwards should have been embarassing.....for everybody. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

09-02-2004, 11:54 PM	#14 (permalink)
nanofever Huzzah for Welcome Week, Much beer shall I imbibe. Location: UCSB	I win.... Zell miller getting his ass handed to him by CNN: http://bushlies2.us/video/zell_miller_cnn.mpg Zell Miller flipping out on MSNBC:http://bushlies2.us/video/zell_miller_msnbc.mpg __________________ I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect. Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum: "Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."

09-03-2004, 04:29 AM	#16 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	Looks like they learned from the '92 convention. __________________ it's quiet in here

09-03-2004, 07:01 AM	#18 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Miller should calm down before he strokes out or something. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

09-02-2004, 05:53 AM	#3 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	I only heard clips on my way into work today on NPR, what I heard was far from pretty. It was loud, angry and the kind of tone that (I think) turns people away. Miller has proven himself to be a nut and I think the high negativity is turning people off. For me it happened when I saw the purple heart band-aids. I think for many swing voters the constant attacks on Kerry by prime time speakers is going to make them ignore it as well. I know this is my biased view, but its becoming pretty clear that Negative attitudes is a liability to candidates. Republicans need to get positive and start saying what they WILL do. Not bashing who they are against. Ted Kennedy's speech brought down the whole Dem convention for me. It shouldn't have been there. This election is turning into one where everyone is going to be voting AGAINST someone. It's obvious that Kerry set himself up as the Not-Bush. And many people will be voting for him for that fact. It's not Bush v. Anybody but Bush anymore. It's Anybody but Kerry v. Anybody but Bush. That's how negative everything has become.

09-02-2004, 05:56 AM	#4 (permalink)
rukkyg Loser Location: RPI, Troy, NY	CNN also was questioning him after the convention on some other show. The interviewer asked about how Cheney had voted against a lot of the same things Kerry voted against. And also, that Kerry voted for a lot of other defense things... alternatives to, for example, the B-2. All I hear about Kerry is how he didn't vote for this or that, when in reality he had a good reason to not vote for what he didn't vote for, and that the number of similar things he voted is larger than what he didn't vote for.

09-02-2004, 06:59 AM	#7 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	People that Make Zell Miller as mad as he can possibly be: George W. Bush, Condi Rice, Scott McClellan. "On June 30th, the Coalition Provisional Authority will cease to exist, and will not be replaced. The occupation will end, and Iraqis will govern their own affairs." —George W. Bush "There has been among most of the members of the international community, both those who were part of the coalition and those who were not, a sense that it was extremely important to end the occupation, to have the transfer of full sovereignty to the Iraqis.... One interesting point is that poll after poll after poll shows that while, obviously, the Iraqis don't like occupation, nobody would, that the one thing they remain tremendously focused on, the largest demonstrations that have been Iraq have been to have elections." —Condoleezza Rice "It recognizes the end of the occupation and the beginning of sovereignty for the Iraqi people." —Scott McClellan

09-02-2004, 08:01 AM	#8 (permalink)
powerclown Junkie Location: Detroit, MI	The guy needs to be placed in a straitjacket, sedated, then lowered into a barcalounger for the reminder of his days. That was quite a spectacle. Redefined the word "mean-spirited", and totally uncalled for on the part of the republicans. Anyone notice bush sr. slowly shaking his head during the speech lol??

09-02-2004, 08:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
scout Psycho	Only thing I can say is it may have been all a line of bullshit, but it was a pretty damn well delivered speech. Shit, by the time he was done, if I had been required to vote at that moment without any further time to think about it, I woulda voted Zell Miller right into the White House lol.

09-02-2004, 11:46 AM	#11 (permalink)
Delvid Insane Location: Missouri	Sounds like the old nut job had a major meltdown. Sorry I missed it.

09-02-2004, 12:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	I don't know what the Republicans were thinking when they sent Zell out there as the keynote speaker. Did they think he would suddenly gain his sanity and give a thoughtful, moderate speech? Zell is a far-right extremist who should have left the Democratic party in the 60s like the rest of his kind. If the Democrats had any brains or balls, they would have kicked him out long ago. Getting an extra seat is not worth having a nut like this guy in your party.

09-03-2004, 04:38 AM	#17 (permalink)
Hanxter The Griffin	matthews is a gas bag - i really think he gets paid by the word

09-03-2004, 07:18 AM	#19 (permalink)
bodymassage3 Upright	Those videos are quite entertaining..especially the CNN one. "I've got more documentation here than the Library of Congress and the New York Public Library put together on that." Haha. Put down a group of people for either their voting records and/or words they use to describe the war in Iraq, get shown that the group you are supporting voted similarly and used the exact words you detest (by the President and Vice President, nonetheless), and all of the sudden "I'm not talking about them." Textbook. He then goes on to say that he cannot speak for Dick Cheney's record - he can speak for himself, because Miller isn't Dick Cheney. Ironically, he can speak for John Kerry and his record. Personally, point out inconsistancies in someone's record(s) all you want, but don't deny the record of your supportees if you're going to slam the opposition's. Last edited by bodymassage3; 09-03-2004 at 07:20 AM..

09-03-2004, 09:41 AM	#21 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	i wish miller had been less virulent but... if anyone is going to get chewed out by a politician, i'm glad it's chris mathews. that guy has gone off the deep end. his show is in ruins... i'm unable to watch him because he tries to talk over people the entire time. frustrating. sorry the argument had to happen. but since it did... glad it happened to mathews. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

09-03-2004, 09:51 AM	#22 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	I watched Zell Miller for awhile. I found him very divisive, very angry and hard to really follow. All I saw was an angry old man that seemingly had a score to settle and this was his way of doing such. Could it be Zell Miller wanted on Kerry's ticket and since he isn't he has sour grapes? McCain on NBC right after Miller's speech was great and he told it how it was, the Dems. aren't anti-patriotic, Kerry would make a good Commander in Chief and Miller is just trying to get his name out there so he can be the Right wing press's McCain. As for the Matthews/Miller escapade, made for great press, brought attention to Matthews' show and Miller's hatred and got people talking about both for much longer than they need discussing..... couldn't have been too bad for either Miller or Matthews. BTW I did see Bush's speech and some of it was very good, he did have me thinking maybe I needed to change my support. Then he talked of values and religion and such and I realized the same programs he talked about last night he talked about doing 4 years ago and DID NOTHING. Overall, the GOP speeches I saw were as hate filled, finger pointing as the GOP claims the Dems were. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 09-03-2004 at 09:54 AM..

09-03-2004, 11:03 AM	#26 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	That's true. I can marginally respect O'Reilly. But he has his moments.

09-03-2004, 11:29 AM	#27 (permalink)
Scipio Mencken Location: College	The individual talk show hosts don't bother me that much. My biggest problem is when they have an unbalanced three person panel. One guy's a republican strategist/speechwriter. One's a republican elected official, like some random congressman. The third is a "journalist" from the WSJ or Washington Times (essentially a conservative masquerading as an independant). __________________ "Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."

09-03-2004, 12:29 PM	#28 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	Zell is just a really pissed off old man. He has been a solid politican and public servant for many years, but he has grown dissallusioned with the leadership of the Democratic Party. Over the years, he has supported and endorsed John Kerry on innumerable occations, and even hinted that Kerry was the man he hoped would win during the primaries (I am trying to find the quote). Miller is simply fed up with Tom Daschle and Terry McCauliff(me too). He was much better suited for the duties of a Governor, rather than the deliberative and often conniving nature of the Senate. He would be just as disguested with the Republican leadership if he saw their innerworkings. This frustration has simmered for quite a while and has now boiled over. He has gotten so overheated, that he is striking out at the most visible target in the party. It is either this or he a bigger flip flopper than George Bush. At least this is my opinion.