More Islamic terrorism - Target: Australia

[Mephisto2]

Target Australia: Jakarta bomb kills 6
September 9, 2004 - 3:36PM

A huge bomb exploded outside the Australian embassy in Jakarta today - killing at least six people.

Foreign Minister Alexander Downer told local media the bombing was "clearly a terrorist act" aimed at Australia.

Prime Minister John Howard said no Australians were injured but his information was that six others were killed.

Local radio in Jakarta is reporting more than 100 were injured.

Police have confirmed it was a bomb blast, and Mr Howard said there was evidence it was a car bomb. Pictures showed the wreckage of a truck outside the embassy.

Police established an exclusion zone covering a one kilometre radius around the blast site.

Fleets of ambulances began ferrying more victims to hospitals throughout the city.

The explosion in Rasuna Said Street was heard five kilometres away and thought to be on a scale with the blast that killed 12 at the Marriott hotel in Jakarta in August 2003.

Metro TV in Jakarta reported that the plume from the blast was seen to go high into the air, blowing out windows in the 15-storey Wasma 89 Graha Sampoerna building next to the Australian embassy, and damaging other buildings in the area.

The gates to the embassy were damaged. The building - a low-rise structure on a mound - has been designed at an angle to withstand bomb attacks.

A Reuters witness on the scene saw pieces of a head, hair and flesh and other body parts on the street.

``Get out of the way. You are stepping on evidence. There are flesh, bones, and remnants all over this place. Back off,'' a police officer said over a megaphone.

``My friend Anton just died, my friend Anton just died. He was a security guard,'' guard Siti Riani said, sobbing.

Hundreds of police were outside the embassy and thousands of people swarming in the street.

Police were forming a line pushing people back. ``I was driving and suddenly there was an explosion,'' said one survivor, Paryadi. ``Now I'm bleeding from the head.''

Bleeding victims being taken from the embassy complex to ambulances, but police said the actual explosion was probably outside the embassy.

``It seems that the blast came from outside the embassy. If you look at it, the buildings that are most damaged are the buildings around the embassy, not the embassy,'' police major Widodo said.

ElShinta radio station quoted a witness saying a police truck and a taxi in front of the Australian embassy had been blown apart.

A Reuters reporter on the scene said there was a hole in the embassy gate and he saw some people with what looked like minor injuries leaving the complex.

A Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade spokeswoman said it was not clear if the Australian embassy was the target of the blast.

She said officials in Canberra had been in contact with staff at the embassy, who said there had been a blast in the vicinity of the embassy.

Windows at the embassy were shattered by the explosion and staff had been evacuated.

``There are shattered windows, including at the Australian Embassy, and cars have been damaged, but there are no confirmed injuries,'' the spokeswoman said.

The blast occurred about 1.30pm Australian time, she said.

Witnesses reported white smoke into the air after the blast.

A spokesman at national police headquarters in Jakarta said bomb squad officers were on their way to the embassy.

Indonesia, the world's fourth most populous nation, has been hit by sporadic bomb attacks in recent years, including blasts in Bali in October 2002 that killed 202 people, including 88 Australians, and at a luxury Jakarta hotel in August 2003 that killed 12.

In recent weeks several Western embassies, including those of the United States and Australia, have warned their citizens about possible attacks by militants.

Last year, 12 people died in a suicide attack on the JW Marriott hotel in the same district.

The al-Qaeda-linked Jemaah Islamiah group has been blamed for several high profile bomb attacks in Indonesia including the August 2003 attack on Jakarta's Marriott Hotel and the October 2002 bombings on the resort island of Bali.

Sydney Morning Herald - http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/...530741977.html

One of the convicted Bali bombers (who killed nearly 200 people) were photographed out on day release enjoying a cup of coffee with an Indonesian police officer only last week. And a bunch of the others were acquited due to "technicalities" recently.

What's wrong with these people?

SIGH

My liberal minded nature is becoming more and more strained these days...


Mr Mephisto

[Mephisto2]

Did I mention that all the deaths were of Indonesians?

Fucking dimwits...

Mr Mephisto

[Zeld2.0]

It tells little of who actually did it..

Actually it reminds me, with all the media attention on bombs, its actually a bigger wonder why more people don't do that to 'advertise' their cause whatever it is...

[Mephisto2]

You can rest assured it was Jemaah Islamiah.


Mr Mephisto

[Mephisto2]

I can't believe this thread hasn't garnered more comments.

I guess it doesn't really matter unless Americans are killed...


Mr Mephisto

[Averett]

Well to be fair this was posted at 2AM east coast US time. Most of the political nut jobs were all asleep in their beds dreaming of Bush or Kerry or whoever is their guy


I think the death toll is up to 8 now, from what I saw.

Why are these terrorists targeting Australian embassays? Is it that Australia is a "western" country, and therefor going against what they believe is right?

[Mephisto2]

Because Australia went to war with the United States and invaded Iraq.

And the Prime Minister, who is currently engaged in an election campaign, claims Australia is safer as a result. What a farce.

Ignore my comment regarding Americans. I guess I was just feeling shitty.


Mr Mephisto

[phyzix525]

yeah I have not even heard of this untill just now, I don't even think Drudge had it on their website, (where I get most of my news) But yeah its a horrible thing, and I beleive it is hard to say that they are "safer" now, (maybe safer from a big threat, but now a target with these smaller attacks) I was not even aware that they were a high priority target of islamic terrorists in the first place. But you are right, we americans don't care as much if it does not happen to us or on our soil. But to be fair I think its the same for everyone. With so much crap happening around the world its hard to be shocked and interested in everything.

[Ustwo]

I heard about this, this morning when I woke up.

I'm sure though that this is the sort of thing that all governments do, and is not due to the nature of Islamic governments and movements.

Also the Bali bombing was before the war in Iraq if I recall, so while you can debate if having a potential mid east democracy will make you safer or not, I rather doubt it made you less safe.

[roachboy]

only just heard of this (only just caffeinating)--want to trawl about a bit to get more information before i say anything--but thanks for the info, mr. m.....

[powerclown]

SSDC, same shit different country

Add Austrailia (and hopefully Indonesia) to the list of allies in the war against militant islamic fundamentalism. The Austrailians will never forget, or forgive, this bombing.

I think we need to address the underlying causes here.
/sarcasm

[Strange Famous]

Indonesia IS an Islamic country. Fundamentalism only means to live according to religious law... why are these people called Islamic terrorists... I do not remember Americans calling the IRA Catholic terrorists, but I do remember bars in Boston collecting money to pay for bombs to kill English children, and the president of America shaking hands with their political head.

[Mephisto2]

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Indonesia IS an Islamic country. Fundamentalism only means to live according to religious law...

No it doesn't. It means interpreting religious teachings in a narrow minded, tunnel visioned, "fundamental" way, that leaves no room for dissent or alternative interpretation.

I recommend you read Karen Armstrong's book "The Battle for God", a history of fundamentalism in the Islamic, Jewish and Christian religions. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

why are these people called Islamic terrorists...

Because they are. If you disagree, please direct your questions to the US State Department.

http://www.firstgov.gov/fgsearch/res...tion/29722.pdf

http://www.terrorismanswers.org/groups/jemaah.html

I do not remember Americans calling the IRA Catholic terrorists, but I do remember bars in Boston collecting money to pay for bombs to kill English children, and the president of America shaking hands with their political head.

And your point is?

Whilst this is entirely off-topic, the IRA did NOT collect money to kill English children. And the IRA do NOT refer to their activities in religious terms. The IRA are a "secular" terrorist organisation.

The IRA abandoned their military struggle. That is why the US President "rewarded" Gerry Adams for this step by meeting them.

The so-called "Real IRA" are still considered an FTO by the US State Department and were so designated on May 16, 2001.

Are you suggesting, for example, that the US is hypocritical for meeting and discussing political progress with the Palestinian, Israeli and Libyan governments?

Spare me the pontification on IRA attrocities. I lived with their so-called struggle for 30 years, have been directly touched by their terrorist activities and consider them pretty much as lowly as I do any other terrorist organisation.



Mr Mephisto

[Mephisto2]

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I heard about this, this morning when I woke up.

I'm sure though that this is the sort of thing that all governments do, and is not due to the nature of Islamic governments and movements.

What do you mean this "sort of thing". I don't understand you.

Also the Bali bombing was before the war in Iraq if I recall, so while you can debate if having a potential mid east democracy will make you safer or not, I rather doubt it made you less safe.

You may rather doubt it if you want, but if you seriously believe that the Australian, and for that matter American, invasion of Iraq did NOT make these two countries a bigger target, then your understanding of these affairs is not as well rounded as I thought.

Finally, please do not make basic errors in logical argument in paraphrasing me. I did not say anything about "having a potential mid east [sic] democracy" as decreasing safety, but specifically the invasion of Iraq.

Mr Mephisto

[Kostya]

There goes the election...

[Mephisto2]

What a cynical thing to say.

Unfortunately, I agree with you. :-/


Mr Mephisto

[The Phenomenon]

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

Did I mention that all the deaths were of Indonesians?

Fucking dimwits...

Mr Mephisto

Yep 9 deaths and 180 injuries.

[Macheath]

Australia and Indonesia both have to keep working damn hard on their counter-terrorism capabilities. The Indonesian's have come a fair way in the past 18 months since back when they denied the existence and capabilities of JI. For Australia also, terrorism was a peripheral interest prior to September 11. Going to take a few years for both countries to see results on the ground.

In the meantime, you have to engage with Indonesia's moderates; the folks who were just as pissed as we were when they saw their contrymen killed on their TVs.

I wonder if any Australian politicians will lash out at Indonesia for political gain? It's possible - I mean, the latest news is they knew via SMS of a pending attack on a western embassy 45 minutes prior to the blast. There were demands for the release of JIs Abu Bakar Bashir. So they didn't "cave in" to the terrorists' demands and I assume there was intelligence sharing - but still, you can see the possibility for backlash.

[Kostya]

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

What a cynical thing to say.

Unfortunately, I agree with you. :-/


Mr Mephisto

Cynical, moi?

[Ustwo]

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

What do you mean this "sort of thing". I don't understand you.

I was being sarcastic, based on the wrong assumptions that what the terrorists are doing is no different then what the US or other nations do, but I know it wasn't clear enough.

You may rather doubt it if you want, but if you seriously believe that the Australian, and for that matter American, invasion of Iraq did NOT make these two countries a bigger target, then your understanding of these affairs is not as well rounded as I thought.

That is YOUR assumption, but tell it to the dead in Bali. If there is one thing these barbarians understand its strength. Bending over and talking about feelings won't move them.

Finally, please do not make basic errors in logical argument in paraphrasing me. I did not say anything about "having a potential mid east [sic] democracy" as decreasing safety, but specifically the invasion of Iraq.

Mr Mephisto

One thing can lead to another, try to follow through with the logic rather then just skimming the surface to be contrary. You knew what I meant and you know the two are directly related. It wasn't like a magical democracy would spring up in Iraq or any other Islamic state.

[Averett]

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

You can rest assured it was Jemaah Islamiah.


Mr Mephisto

Looks like you were right...

Link

Islamist group appears to claim Jakarta blast
Bomb near Australian Embassy kills 9, injures scores more

The Associated Press
Updated: 7:41 a.m. ET Sept. 10, 2004
JAKARTA, Indonesia -
Jemaah Islamiyah, a Southeast Asian terror group linked to al-Qaida, purportedly claimed responsibility for a deadly car bomb attack outside the Australian Embassy in Indonesia, saying it was punishing Australia for supporting the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

Indonesian investigators, meanwhile, said Friday that they believed the car bombing was a suicide attack, and were investigating if three of the nine people who died were the bombers. They had also blamed Jemaah Islamiyah soon after the attack Thursday.

In Australia, Prime Minister John Howard said another attack in Jakarta was a “distinct possibility.” Militants have repeatedly struck foreign targets in Indonesia, the deadliest when they bombed nightclubs on Bali Island, killing 202 people including many Australians.

“There has been a lot of ’chatter’ as the intelligence agencies call it and a lot of evidence coming forward suggesting it (another attack),” he said. “The number of people they believe to be operatives would support the fear that there could be another attack.” He did not elaborate.

Australia targeted
The claim of responsibility was posted on an Internet site known for carrying extremist Islamic content. Its authenticity could not immediately be verified.

“We decided to call Australia to account, which we consider one of the worst enemies of God, and God’s religion of Islam,” the statement said. “Here we were able to call it to account today in Jakarta, where one of the mujahedeen (holy warriors) was able to execute a martyrdom operation with a car bomb in front of the embassy.”

The attack in Jakarta killed nine people and wounded 173 and came ahead of next month’s general elections in Australia. Howard, a conservative, has angered many in the region for running on a pro-American, anti-terror platform.

“We suspect that it is a suicide bombing,” said Lt. Gen. Suyitno Landung, the national police force’s chief of detectives. “We are trying to determine whether the parts of bodies of three men at Kramat Jati hospital were part of a suicide squad.”

He said the vehicle used in the attack was a green Daihatsu minivan.

If the claim of responsibility is legitimate, the blast would bear echoes of a far deadlier strike, a series of train blasts in Madrid in March that killed 191 people. That was timed to parliamentary elections in which pro-U.S. Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar’s party was considered the front-runner but eventually lost to opponents who had promised to withdraw troops from Iraq.

'Indonesia is crying'
Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, who flew to Jakarta after the blast, walked to the damaged embassy through streets strewn with shattered glass and metal. Bouquets of flowers lined the front of surrounding buildings along with posters with handwritten messages saying: “Today, Indonesia is crying,” and “Curse the terrorists!”

The attack also came ahead of Indonesia’s presidential elections and two days before the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States.

After meeting with President Megawati Sukarnoputri, police chief Dai Bachtiar said authorities were hunting for two Malaysian fugitives — Azahari bin Husin and Noordin Top — and that they had discovered a safe house near the international airport that the suspects may have used last month.

Forensics experts sifted through scene of the explosion, marking evidence on the road by putting small orange flags on bits of bomb debris. The head of the anti-terror unit, Brig. Gen. Pranowo, said detectives were collecting pieces of the car used in the blast — a vital step in catching the bombers.

Australian post-blast analysis experts were helping in the investigation.

“These terrorists need to know that Australia and the Indonesian government and others as well, will hunt down terrorists until we catch every single one them,” Downer said.

Australian Federal Police commissioner Mick Keelty, who is accompanying Downer, said experts believed that the car bomb consisted of about 440 pounds of potassium chloride.

Past attacks
Jemaah Islamiyah has been blamed for the 2002 Bali bombings and the Aug. 5, 2003, suicide bombing at the J.W. Marriott hotel in Jakarta that killed 12 people.

Australia, a key supporter of the U.S. war on terrorism, sent 2,000 troops for last year’s invasion of Iraq and still has more than 850 military personnel in the country. The Iraq war is deeply unpopular in Indonesia, the world’s most populous Muslim nation.

Analysts were divided on how the bombing would affect Australia’s Oct. 9 election. Howard is considered stronger on national security than Labor challenger Mark Latham — who has pledged to bring the troops home before Christmas — and could benefit from the perception that Australia is under attack.

Financial analysts said the bombing was not expected to significantly affect Indonesia’s stock and currency markets, although overall sentiment remained cautious. On Friday, the Jakarta Stock Exchange opened only slightly lower, indicating that investors aren’t panicking over the attack.

[adysav]

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

Whilst this is entirely off-topic, the IRA did NOT collect money to kill English children.

BBC News
Besides, the IRA admitted to taking money from Irish Americans, people who would rather see them reunite Ireland by force. It costs millions of dollars a year to run a militant organisation, and most of the IRA's money came from those who turned a blind eye to terrorism until it started happening to them.

Besides, slapping a religious label on a group doesn't make it so.
If you were a Jewish gang rape group does that mean the Jewish world is behind it and it follows Jewish teachings?
They might think they're doing it for Islam, but come on, it's not really is it.

[Mephisto2]

Originally Posted by adysav

BBC News
Besides, the IRA admitted to taking money from Irish Americans, people who would rather see them reunite Ireland by force. It costs millions of dollars a year to run a militant organisation, and most of the IRA's money came from those who turned a blind eye to terrorism until it started happening to them.

Besides, slapping a religious label on a group doesn't make it so.
If you were a Jewish gang rape group does that mean the Jewish world is behind it and it follows Jewish teachings?
They might think they're doing it for Islam, but come on, it's not really is it.

Whoa...

You're entirely missing the point.

The IRA did not collect money to "kill British children", (as you stated) but they collected money for their "armed struggle." Some of the more fundamentalist Islamic terrorrists do specifically and explicitly target civilians.

I thought that distinction was obvious. Maybe I should spell out what I mean in future.

With regards to arguing whether the Islamic fundamentalist terrrorists are really Islamic or not, I think it's fair that if they say they are, and use religious dogma to justify their attacks, then they are. I doubt they really give a shit if you think they're not. :-)


Mr Mephisto

[OpieCunningham]

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

With regards to arguing whether the Islamic fundamentalist terrrorists are really Islamic or not, I think it's fair that if they say they are, and use religious dogma to justify their attacks, then they are. I doubt they really give a shit if you think they're not. :-)

Well ... in a sense maybe. But if I ran around killing people and claimed that the Catholic God told me to do it, I'm sure almost everyone would label me Insane and not an Insane Catholic.

But assuredly you are correct - whether we believe they are Muslim or not makes no difference to them. But it probably does make a difference to the billion Muslims who are not going around killing people/children.

[Mephisto2]

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I was being sarcastic, based on the wrong assumptions that what the terrorists are doing is no different then what the US or other nations do, but I know it wasn't clear enough.

Fair enough. I still don't get it really, but I'll take your word for it! :-)

That is YOUR assumption,

And the assumption of the vast majority of Australians. Oh, and the rest of the world...

If many terrorist organisations explicitly target you because you invaded a country, then it is a fact that you are more at risk.

Let me spell it out.

1) Australia was not in danger from Iraq
2) Australia invaded Iraq
3) Terrorists target Australia because they invaded Iraq
4) Therefore, Australia is now more at risk than before.
5) QED

There's simply no arguing or debating these fundamental facts.

but tell it to the dead in Bali.

Huh?

If there is one thing these barbarians understand its strength. Bending over and talking about feelings won't move them.

Well, ignoring the smart-ass comment (or is it sarcasm?), I both agree and disagree with you.

One would think the Palestinian terrorists would "understand" strength. Yet each targetted and deadly attack by Israel results in retribution from them. And so the cycle continues.

In other words, you have been proven wrong.

WHEN HAS A TERRORIST ORGANISATION EVER CEASED ITS ACTIVITIES DUE TO ATTACKS FROM A WESTERN POWER?

One thing can lead to another, try to follow through with the logic rather then just skimming the surface to be contrary.

One thing does not follow the other. And don't insult my intelligence. I respect you and give you the benefit of doubt, so please do the same for me.

You knew what I meant and you know the two are directly related. It wasn't like a magical democracy would spring up in Iraq or any other Islamic state.

I know what you meant, and you put words in my mouth; things that I didn't say.

So what's your point?


Mr Mephisto

[Kostya]

Originally Posted by Ustwo

That is YOUR assumption, but tell it to the dead in Bali. If there is one thing these barbarians understand its strength. Bending over and talking about feelings won't move them.

I agree with Mephisto on this one. Tell it to the dead in Bali you say? You mean the one's who got killed in that terror attack which was completely unprecedented? The one where the perpetrators stated repeatedly that Australia's support of America in the Iraq war was one of their primary reasons for attacking? Nobody gave two shits about this fucking island until we joined the coalition of the willing...

[Mephisto2]

Originally Posted by OpieCunningham

Well ... in a sense maybe. But if I ran around killing people and claimed that the Catholic God told me to do it, I'm sure almost everyone would label me Insane and not an Insane Catholic.

But assuredly you are correct - whether we believe they are Muslim or not makes no difference to them. But it probably does make a difference to the billion Muslims who are not going around killing people/children.

Fair point, and duly noted.

But what I meant was the difference between Islamic terrorists and "secular" terrorists (like the IRA, Shining Path, Bader-Meinhoff group etc) is that the former specifically refer to their jihad (a religous crusade).

Let's consider the Iraqi "insurgents". Even the Pentagon and US Administration do not accuse them of being Islamic terrorists; or even terrorists at all really. Everyone agrees that if the Western powers left Iraq, they would cease their activities; by definition.

No one thinks that the same is true for Al Queda.


Mr Mephisto

[skyscan]

Well, looks like terrorism is the defining story of our times, not quite the best way to start off a new century. I don't see how historian's would define our era any other way. Everything could be so simple if people would just STOP KILLING EACH OTHER! How hard can it be?

I've been to Australia and to hear that they have been attacked (again) is horrible. My sorrow goes out to friends and family of the victims.