08-12-2004, 09:53 AM | #81 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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08-12-2004, 10:04 AM | #82 (permalink) | ||
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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Look at it this way, if a corporation needs help from the governement in terms of less taxes so they can build another factory that will employ thousands of people, which the government would then make the money back by taxing the company on payroll and the employees income, then it makes sence to me to do it.
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It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time Last edited by phyzix525; 08-12-2004 at 11:02 AM.. |
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08-12-2004, 10:17 AM | #83 (permalink) | ||
beauty in the breakdown
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
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What I do have a problem with is, say, saying that hog farmers now have to pay lower taxes than, say, beef ranchers. *That* is a tax loophole put into place through special interest groups. Or getting out of paying taxes on profits made by foreign workers by claiming they were "foreign profits." Furthermore, reporting your $50,000 profit isnt a tax loophole--its simple economics. Your profit was $50,000, the guy with a $100,000 salary had $100,000 in profit. Both should be, and are taxed accordingly. Quote:
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"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato Last edited by sailor; 08-12-2004 at 10:24 AM.. |
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08-12-2004, 10:19 AM | #84 (permalink) | ||
Her Jay
Location: Ontario for now....
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Absence makes the heart grow fonder |
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08-12-2004, 10:52 AM | #85 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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08-12-2004, 10:55 AM | #86 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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SETTLE DOWN BEAVIS!!!!
we're all supposed to be civil....no need for name calling and hair pulling.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
08-12-2004, 11:01 AM | #87 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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I do know that the top 10% erners and corporations pay 80% of the taxes, so I have to say the middle class is getting a pretty fair shake. Another question I have is why the liberals are trying to create division by getting the poor mad at the rich. They play to peoples emotions to get votes but more often then not they are not the "people's kinda man" that they make themselves out to be.
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It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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08-12-2004, 11:11 AM | #88 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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08-12-2004, 11:20 AM | #90 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time Last edited by phyzix525; 08-12-2004 at 11:23 AM.. |
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08-12-2004, 11:44 AM | #91 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/pub/irs-soi/01in01ts.xls Looking at 2001 numbers only, you see this (I know it's hard to read but I can't get the columns to line up): class, tax share income share adj gross income top 1%, 33.89% 17.53% 293k top 5%, 53.25% 31.99% 128k top 10%, 64.89% 43.11% 93k top 25%, 82.90% 65.23% 56k top 50%, 96.03% 86.19% 28.5k Those numbers are high because each class includes now look what it's like if you remove the tier above: group tax share income share income range 0%-1% 33.89% 17.53% 293k < income < infinity 1%-5% 19.36% 14.46% 128k < income < 293k 5%-10% 11.12% 11.64% 93k < income < 128k 10%-25% 18.01% 22.12% 56k < income < 128k 25%-50% 13.13% 20.96% 28.5k < income < 56k Things get even really fast. Two groups pay more than their proportional share of the tax burden, the ones making more than 99% of all Americans and the ones in the 95-99 percentiles. The people in the 95-99 aren't even paying that much more, compared to their income, and since their is such a large gap between the bottom and top of those groups, most of the disproportionality comes from those closer to the top 1%. Once you fall to the 5-10 percentile, you are already paying a tax rate that is nearly perfectly proportional to your income. Looking at it this way, how is our current system THAT unfair? The only ones getting huge breaks are those making less than 28.5k per year. Should we really risk economic havoc so that people making over 300k can have it easier? Last edited by kutulu; 08-12-2004 at 11:47 AM.. |
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08-12-2004, 12:09 PM | #92 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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08-12-2004, 12:16 PM | #93 (permalink) | |
beauty in the breakdown
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
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"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato |
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08-12-2004, 12:19 PM | #94 (permalink) |
Muffled
Location: Camazotz
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Let's assume it's true that the top 10% pay 80% of the taxes. Assuming the top 10% are in the top marginal tax bracket, they pay 35-40% in taxes. If you instituted a flat tax at even 20% across the board, you lose 40% of your tax income right there. With the flat tax the federal government has basically half as much to work with -- that's a lot of "wasteful" spending to get rid of.
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it's quiet in here |
08-12-2004, 12:31 PM | #95 (permalink) | |
Like John Goodman, but not.
Location: SFBA, California
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08-12-2004, 12:50 PM | #96 (permalink) |
Junkie
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This may be the socialist in me but if you look at the model of our wages, it is a pyramid with a small group on top making the largest amount of money. Those are the people that employ almost everyone else. They set the wages and keep them as low as competition allows so that they can hoard their money. Keeping that in mind, I don't see how it is so wrong that the tax model can't be the same.
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08-12-2004, 01:20 PM | #98 (permalink) |
Tilted
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Bush is right... when you tax the rich, it's the poor who end up paying. On the other hand, if you stop confiscating their money, the rich will create new businesses, new jobs, and improve the life of everyone.
This rabid, frothing insistence that we punish wealthy people for being successful is the misguided result of bitter jealousy from people who have given up on ever wanting to make something of themselves, and have decided to punish those who have. |
08-12-2004, 01:42 PM | #99 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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08-12-2004, 02:11 PM | #100 (permalink) | ||
beauty in the breakdown
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
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"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato |
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08-12-2004, 03:47 PM | #101 (permalink) | |
Tilted
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America is littered with countless stories of folks who grew up in working class families and became millionaires. You won't find as many tales of success in any other nation in the world. Your attitude of hopelessness is as unfounded as your belief that supply side economics don't work. |
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08-12-2004, 05:30 PM | #102 (permalink) | |
Tone.
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Look, you've spent 3 pages spouting generalized bullshit. How about nailing SOMETHING down for a change? Yes, I know that if you nail something down, you will lose the argument because we will be able to come up with hard facts to refute your false assertions, but at least show some cajones and be willing to back up your vague assertions, eh? |
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08-12-2004, 08:05 PM | #104 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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08-12-2004, 08:08 PM | #105 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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Quote:
__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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08-12-2004, 08:09 PM | #106 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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Quote:
__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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08-12-2004, 08:15 PM | #107 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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08-12-2004, 08:17 PM | #108 (permalink) | |
Like John Goodman, but not.
Location: SFBA, California
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Think of the shit teenager you've asked a question in any job they're working and all you got was a bad attitude, and you'll know what I mean. |
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08-12-2004, 08:22 PM | #109 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: st. louis
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OK lets name some programs that the Feds do not and should not spend their money on, i nominate education since it is the responsability of the state and no the feds it has no place in the budget i am sure that many liberals would agree since they have nothing but negatives to say about no child left behind
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"The difference between commiment and involvment is like a ham and egg breakfast the chicken was involved but the pig was commited" "Thrice happy is the nation that has a glorious history. Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt |
08-12-2004, 08:24 PM | #110 (permalink) | ||||||
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But as you said the war is a huge drain. We have to pay for it somehow. That means we can't be irresponsible and reduce taxes while our spending is so high. |
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08-12-2004, 08:27 PM | #111 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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As to the 10% paying the 80, well yes technically I was wrong there, my idea was right but number were not. one thing that I did notice is that the bottom 50% only pay like 5%. Here is something I found that seemed interesting. check it out.
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It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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08-12-2004, 08:29 PM | #112 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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08-12-2004, 08:36 PM | #113 (permalink) | ||||
Like John Goodman, but not.
Location: SFBA, California
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http://www.worldrevolution.org/Proje...Inequality.htm Quote:
Edit: I'd also like to pose a question that just occured to me: If the bottom 50% of income earners pay only 5% of income taxes... well, leaving them income-tax-free wouldn't hurt much at all, would it? Last edited by Journeyman; 08-12-2004 at 08:40 PM.. |
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08-12-2004, 08:37 PM | #114 (permalink) | |||
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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Yeah its called a anuity, its guaranteed to make more then SS is and you cannot loose your money and it can be tax free too. Quote:
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__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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08-12-2004, 11:44 PM | #115 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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08-13-2004, 04:44 AM | #116 (permalink) | ||
Tone.
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08-13-2004, 05:09 AM | #117 (permalink) |
Muffled
Location: Camazotz
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SO, physix, no answer on the fact that a flat tax for 10% would cut the tax income of the government by more than half?
A big reason private schools "waste" less money is they don't have to cater to the lowest common denominator and they don't have to teach kids with special needs like retardation, autism, etc. Those conditions are a HUGE drain on a school's resources. Kerry's plan for a tax break is a break for the 98% who own less than 60% of the nation's wealth. He wants to tax the rich e.g., himself and his wife and his running mate, unlike Bush, who wants a cut for himself and his cabinet of millionaires. Finally, Hwed, it's not hopelessness, it's realism. There's a reason less than 1% of the country is "high-net-worth" individuals.
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it's quiet in here Last edited by Kadath; 08-13-2004 at 05:11 AM.. |
08-13-2004, 05:11 AM | #118 (permalink) | |
beauty in the breakdown
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
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"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato |
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08-13-2004, 05:47 AM | #119 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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nobody have proven that alternatives are ready to replace oil.
As for private schools, well I can guarantee you that TU here in Tulsa pays better then OU and OSU. Also there are private schools that cater only to autistic and metaly handicapped kids. As for anwr, well my bad on the spelling, but one day it will happen and once we hit a few dollars a gallon I guarantee there will be a lot more people wanting to.
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It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
08-13-2004, 05:55 AM | #120 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
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Here are a couple of programs that seem to spend lots o money, not saying that these are bad programs, but I guarantee you the EPA is already bigger then it needs to be.
EPA 6.453 billion OSHA 443 million SBA 340 million SEC 253 million Equal employment oportunity commission 244 million FCC 165million FTC 89million Consumer product saftey comm, 40 million Its funny we spend more (6.413billion more) to make sure the plants and animals are ok, then we do to make sure the products that are made don't kill us.
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It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time |
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bush, rich, tax, wtf |
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