Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Politics


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-21-2004, 02:07 PM   #201 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Right here
Quote:
Originally Posted by phyzix525
Your wrong. top one % is still a large amount of people. think about 1 million people. Now if you look at forbes there are only like a 500 billionaires. those are the top 1% of the top 1%ers. This is where I see that you are just jealous of rich people cause as you say they don't "work" I guess bill gates never worked a day in his life, the guys at google don't work, I am sure trump never had to work, and I am positive the waltons never have worked. Now it would have been true if you said they did not have to work, now. but to be considered in the top 1% your worth does not have to be as high as you think. And most of these people work. Also take away all the companies those people run and our economy plummets.
You're out of control. Re-read the thread, as this issue has been addressed.

The short of it is that I realized a long time ago that people don't read these posts very carefully except when they want to deconstruct an argument. Then, they pay so close attention to each line, that they miss the real point the poster was trying to make.

I made it very clear that I was referring to people who own the vast majority of the capital. Bill Gates does not own a huge proportion of the capital relative to the people I was talking about. You got so riled up that you missed the part where I was specifically referring to that class. Since my entire argument is that we ought to pay attention to assets moreso than income, you should have concluded that I thought those two posters were placing themselves in the top asset holder category. The majority of the people in the class they are talking about pay a significant portion of the tax bill. It's the background money that isn't getting tapped--the capital that corporations and a tiny slice of our population control.

As to your splitting hairs over whether I should have stated, don't have to work rather than don't work, I think you're just picking at things to provide reasons to yourself to prove that your disagreement with my position is due to rational reasons rather than ideological ones.
__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman
smooth is offline  
Old 08-21-2004, 07:58 PM   #202 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth
You're out of control. Re-read the thread, as this issue has been addressed.

The short of it is that I realized a long time ago that people don't read these posts very carefully except when they want to deconstruct an argument. Then, they pay so close attention to each line, that they miss the real point the poster was trying to make.

I made it very clear that I was referring to people who own the vast majority of the capital. Bill Gates does not own a huge proportion of the capital relative to the people I was talking about. You got so riled up that you missed the part where I was specifically referring to that class. Since my entire argument is that we ought to pay attention to assets moreso than income, you should have concluded that I thought those two posters were placing themselves in the top asset holder category. The majority of the people in the class they are talking about pay a significant portion of the tax bill. It's the background money that isn't getting tapped--the capital that corporations and a tiny slice of our population control.

As to your splitting hairs over whether I should have stated, don't have to work rather than don't work, I think you're just picking at things to provide reasons to yourself to prove that your disagreement with my position is due to rational reasons rather than ideological ones.

No you are right, I did not read all of the posts, I did not realize there were so many I had not seen, I saw yours and quoted you without looking at the other responses.
On the other hand I was told once that you should not even BE taxed on your wages and only your income which would be defined as money made in investments and so forth. The years of IRS bullying has made it possilbe to collect taxes on wages while technically being unconstitutional. talk about having to really trim down on spending then.
__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

phyzix525 is offline  
Old 08-21-2004, 08:30 PM   #203 (permalink)
Junkie
 
hannukah harry's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phyzix525
On the other hand I was told once that you should not even BE taxed on your wages and only your income which would be defined as money made in investments and so forth. The years of IRS bullying has made it possilbe to collect taxes on wages while technically being unconstitutional. talk about having to really trim down on spending then.
now you're talking about a different definition of income. how would wages not be a part of one's income? and there is nothing unconstitutional about income tax. it is not mentioned in the constitution and is therefore not protected by it.
__________________
shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer
hannukah harry is offline  
Old 08-21-2004, 09:36 PM   #204 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Right here
Quote:
Originally Posted by hannukah harry
now you're talking about a different definition of income. how would wages not be a part of one's income? and there is nothing unconstitutional about income tax. it is not mentioned in the constitution and is therefore not protected by it.

Harry, I would think that a legitimate position would be that since it isn't explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, that it's actually a right retained by the people. I understand the Constitution to be a bare minimum for the government, not the people's rights. That's possibly what phyzix might have heard someone basing their argument on.
__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman
smooth is offline  
Old 08-22-2004, 12:39 AM   #205 (permalink)
Junkie
 
hannukah harry's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth
Harry, I would think that a legitimate position would be that since it isn't explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, that it's actually a right retained by the people. I understand the Constitution to be a bare minimum for the government, not the people's rights. That's possibly what phyzix might have heard someone basing their argument on.
while i agree with you, if i'm not mistaken, the constitution says that anything not specifically mentioned in it is retained by the people unless the states or fed govt. make a law about it. at least that's the interpretation i've always had from my american govt. class.
__________________
shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer
hannukah harry is offline  
Old 08-22-2004, 05:41 PM   #206 (permalink)
Banned
 
In a nutshell: The constitution doesn't grant rights, it limits them.
matthew330 is offline  
Old 08-22-2004, 06:36 PM   #207 (permalink)
Junkie
 
hannukah harry's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew330
In a nutshell: The constitution doesn't grant rights, it limits them.
uhm, are we reading the same constitution?
__________________
shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer
hannukah harry is offline  
Old 08-22-2004, 08:31 PM   #208 (permalink)
Banned
 
if this thread's gonna be brought back from the tfp graveyard, this post in particular was way too cocky. I'm trying to change my image yo.

Last edited by matthew330; 09-18-2004 at 06:31 PM.. Reason: way to cocky
matthew330 is offline  
Old 08-22-2004, 08:47 PM   #209 (permalink)
Banned
 
allright, that wasn't really fair. The whole "The constitution doesn't grant, balh blah blah" sounds like what you were trying to say..sortof.

In a free society, as ours, rights are "inalienable". They aren't the governments to give away. The consitution defines certain rights, and places limits on them.

The "right to free speech" is more of a declaration. It's defined so limits can be placed (i.e. - no yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theater). We didn't need the consitution to tell us we were allowed to speak our minds, we needed it to define it, for the sole purpose of placing limits on it.

I'm tired.
matthew330 is offline  
Old 09-18-2004, 01:06 PM   #210 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Many of the mouthpieces for the "myth of the self made man" are completely self delusional. The economic opportunities afforded by the American system were not created by you and in many cases were subsidized by others, horror of horrors: Republicans taking a handout. For a much more detailed discussion of this I would refer you to this site http://www.responsiblewealth.org/pre...tAlone_pr.html It discusses the infrastructure that supports and guides the economics of the country and how the wealthy are subsidized and nurtured by this system.
maypo is offline  
Old 09-18-2004, 02:12 PM   #211 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: Indianapolis
Off topic a little, with regard to matthews comment ...

This is what makes the US a different kind of place than almost every other country in the world. The government doesn't know best, you do. The government doesn't allow you to do certain things, it only places limits on what you can do.
__________________
From the day of his birth Gilgamesh was called by name.
gcbrowni is offline  
 

Tags
bush, rich, tax, wtf


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:43 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360