Specific Reasons Why You Hate Pres.Bush! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

jcookc6 · 08-02-2004, 11:28 AM

It obvious that a lot of people HATE President Bush. It would be interesting to see the specific reasons that have been PROVED, why you hate him.
ie, he lied about WMD, that is not specific, you don't know he lied, alot of people thought there was WMD.

cthulu23 · 08-02-2004, 11:35 AM

Does the term "honeypot" mean anything to anyone here?

Anyway, I don't hate President Bush, but I disagree with him on about 80% of issues. Given that, my distaste for his policies is quite logical.

Averett · 08-02-2004, 11:35 AM

WhyWhyWHY?

So if somebody comes here and says "I hate him because he's from Texas" that would be okay? It's a valid, specific and PROVED reason right? But it's pretty fucking stupid.

I envision this thread being closed, and closed fast.

Bill O'Rights · 08-02-2004, 11:37 AM

Hmmm...I have a strong suspicion that this thread is just asking for trouble. Take note, people, that I'll be keeping a real close eye on it. That said, I don't hate GW, so much as I harbor a strong distrust. In fact, I don't think that it's the man himself that I distrust, so much as his administration.

Polyphobic · 08-02-2004, 11:42 AM

Hate? Politicians aren't worth that effort.
Dislike would be more appropriate.

Journeyman · 08-02-2004, 11:52 AM

I hate him because I don't believe him or anyone who claims that he sincerely believed that Iraq had WMD, was an imminent threat to the US, and that is why we had to go in. As soon as I end up with that point, I see the dead-American-soldier count closing in on 1,000, I don't even know the dead-Iraqi-civilian count, and I remind myself that this asshole got where he is by a state run by his brother and election results signed by the head of his campaign committee.

So fuck him.

But yeah, this thread isn't the best idea. Feels great to rant though.

filtherton · 08-02-2004, 12:01 PM

I don't hate bush, i just hate his doggy style.

assilem · 08-02-2004, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cthulu23
Does the term "honeypot" mean anything to anyone here?

Isn’t a "honeypot" the shit wagon used in gold mines during the 1800's?

I do not hate GW. But I do disagree with about 90% of his policies. The only two points I agree with him on is his foreign policy and his domestic economic policies. Every other issue I pretty much hate his stance on. I.E. gay marriage, stem cell research and others.

cthulu23 · 08-02-2004, 02:04 PM

Although "honeypot" has many meanings, in the tech field it is an intentionally vulnerable computer or network that is set up to catch intrusion attempts, denial of service attacks or other forms of technical malfeasance.

I kind of see a honeypot quality to this thread....the perfect place to out yourself as a crazy liberal and prove right those who speak of Democratic hate speech.

jcookc6 · 08-02-2004, 02:07 PM

Maybe people here don't Hate the president, but you hear it all day long. People say they hate Bush, but don't say why. I just thought it would be a good discussion, to see why people hate him.

cthulu23 · 08-02-2004, 02:09 PM

Fair enough. It struck me as funny because I was discussing political "hate" in another thread and up popped this one. Perfect timing, really

filtherton · 08-02-2004, 02:16 PM

I think that you're confusing conservative talking points with reality. Very few people actually hate bush. Hate does not come from rational thought. A large amount of people don't like bush for very persuasive reasons. Unfortunately, it is all to easy for certain people to, instead of directly confronting criticisms of bush, simply write off criticism as the hateful rantings of fringe lefties. It's is similar to the charges or "america hater" or "traitor" that frequently get levelled at anyone who dares question the current party line.

assilem · 08-02-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cthulu23
Although "honeypot" has many meanings, in the tech field it is an intentionally vulnerable computer or network that is set up to catch intrusion attempts, denial of service attacks or other forms of technical malfeasance.

I kind of see a honeypot quality to this thread....the perfect place to out yourself as a crazy liberal and prove right those who speak of Democratic hate speech.

I love the way you phrase things cthulu23. I will remember the "honeypot" reference in the future. It makes sense.

Although I think jcookc6's intentions were not dishonest. I too would like to hear why people "hate" the president. Although I can understand why people disagree with his policies, there is a portion of the public that truly do hate the man. I would like to know their reasons and perhaps discuss them. I would not let another’s views or feeling reflect upon their person. But I WOULD like to know why? Just interested.

I did not agree with Bill Clinton's policies on many issues but I never hated him. There was, however, a good amount of right wingers that did and I could not understand why.

Wax_off · 08-02-2004, 02:30 PM

I don't hate the guy, I just think he's inept, and not fit to be our president.

In the other thread someone (tecoyah?) said that hate is often a product of fear. People fear that Bush & Co. are taking away the things that they hold dear. Distrust is something else that can contribute to fear, and this administration hasn't been the best about being straight with the American public. That fear and distrust is converted into hate. Kinda too bad, but there it is.

fuzyfuzer · 08-02-2004, 03:00 PM

i don't hate him at all, now i can't agree with his beliefs in control of the country. i see myself closer to a libretarian (can't spell don't hate me

). i look at the issues and see that i can't let Kerry happen to me . even more important though i want a republican governer for missouri over a dem because of there stance on tort reform. (thats a different thread) personally i feel the same about Kerry as many of you seem to feel about Bush so no harm no foul.

jbuffett · 08-02-2004, 03:13 PM

1. Turning back of environmental laws.
2. Flip-flopping-(promising to fund no child left behind and not doing it, promising to properly equip our troops before sending them into battle and not doing it....so on and so on)
3. Trying to legislate our bedrooms.
4. Weakening our status in the world by causing us to be seen a renegade cowboy run nation.
5. Cutting veteran's benefits.
6. Sacrificing our civil liberties in the name of security.
7. Failing to right an economy that should be stronger than any in the world.
8. Playing politics with judges. Bush complains about a handful of his extremist nominees not being approved--even after a vast majority of his judges have been rubber stamped by congress. Claiming any judge who makes a decision he doesn't agree with is an "Activist Judge" If it wern't for judges who make decisions contrary to the American majority, Bush wouldn't be President (Gore got 500,000 more popular votes than Bush).

These are just a few off the top of my head, but gives me enough of a reason to strongly dislike Bush.

Seaver · 08-02-2004, 03:40 PM

Quote:

2. Flip-flopping-(promising to fund no child left behind and not doing it, promising to properly equip our troops before sending them into battle and not doing it....so on and so on)

Which has nothing to do with the Democrats blocking the bill at every turn? Well at least Kerry voted to properly equip the troops (including the new flack jackets), oh wait..

Quote:

3. Trying to legislate our bedrooms.

Actually agree with you on this one.

Quote:

5. Cutting veteran's benefits.

Because Kerry has voted Yes on all the veteran benefits... oh wait... but he voted to give the funds to give them the new flack jackets... oh wait..

Quote:

If it wern't for judges who make decisions contrary to the American majority, Bush wouldn't be President (Gore got 500,000 more popular votes than Bush).

Because we ALL know the popular vote counts for anything in the election process.

I only agree with Bush 60% of the time, but at least he makes a stand on things and doesnt sway in the winds like Kerry.

Sparhawk · 08-02-2004, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seaver
Which has nothing to do with the Democrats blocking the bill at every turn? Well at least Kerry voted to properly equip the troops (including the new flack jackets), oh wait..

Because Kerry has voted Yes on all the veteran benefits... oh wait... but he voted to give the funds to give them the new flack jackets... oh wait..

Kerry did vote to *actually* pay for them, which isn't what Bush did. All Bush did was slap it onto America's credit card, which your kids and mine will be paying off for a long long time.

Unfortunately Bush threatened to veto Congress' attempt to be fiscally sane for once, and they of course jumped over each other in acquisance. At least Kerry had the guts to stand up to Bush's shameless, politicized ploy.

cthulu23 · 08-02-2004, 04:03 PM

There's a pretty good write up on the "Kerry voted against soldiers" business at today's DailyHowler (and less then-glowing-estimates of Tim Russert and Joe Biden). for those not familiar with the page, it is dedicated to exposing the blundering of the media.

http://www.dailyhowler.com

Quote:

Biden’s narration laid out some key facts. Kerry wanted to vote immediately for the $67 billion that would go to the troops. But he wanted a separate vote on the extra $20 billion—the money for reconstruction projects. Later, Biden returned to that unspent money—the $18 billion for reconstruction that ended up getting passed. “The bottom line was, I happen to disagree with the vote. But the irony of all ironies is that [Kerry] was more right about their ineptitude in how to deal with it than I was.” Throughout this session, Biden seemed more eager to cover his own kiester than to speak on behalf of Kerry. But even Biden noted the “irony:” as it turns out, Kerry was right in his concern about that extra 20 billion. “Kerry was more right than I was,” Biden finally said of that vote.

Kerry was right in his concern, Biden said. And Biden noted the obvious fact—Kerry was never against the money that would have gone to the troops.

-snip-

Two days before, the White House said that Bush would veto the Iraq spending bill if it passed in this form which he didn’t support. The Morning News was saying that Bush should veto the bill if that happened.

Of course, there was absolutely nothing wrong with Bush’s threat to veto the $87 billion. After all, if Bush had vetoed that form of the bill, that wouldn’t have left the troops unfunded! No, it only meant that Congress would have to create another form of the bill. The troops were always going to be funded; Bush’s veto wouldn’t have changed that. And neither did the votes of senators, including Kerry, against the form of the bill that later passed.

So no, there was nothing wrong with Bush’s threat to veto the $87 billion. And there was nothing wrong with Kerry’s vote against a different form of the bill. But there was something wrong—something grossly wrong—when Bush spoke in Canton, Ohio this weekend. As usual, Bush was playing the voters for fools. He voiced a familiar complaint:

BUSH (7/31/04): We must make sure that the men and women who wear our uniform have the very best—the best training, the best equipment. (Applause.) And so last September, while our troops were in combat in both Afghanistan and Iraq, I proposed supplemental funding to support them in their missions. This legislation provided funding for body armor and other vital equipment for hazard pay, for health benefits and ammunition and fuel and spare parts. In the Senate, only a handful, only a small, out-of-the-mainstream minority voted against the legislation. And two of those 12 senators are on the ticket opposing us.

AUDIENCE: Booo!

BUSH: Senator Kerry tried to explain his vote this way: I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it. (Laughter.) End quote. (Laughter.) Now, he's offering different explanations. At one time he said he was proud that he and his running mate voted against the funding for the troops. And then he said: The whole thing is a complicated matter. (Laughter.) There's nothing complicated about supporting our troops in combat. (Applause.)

There’s nothing complicated about supporting the troops? Bush was playing the voters for fools—and editors at the Morning News plainly know it. So isn’t it time for the eds to stand up and have the courage of their prior proposal? At the time, the Morning News agreed with Bush—they said he should veto the $87 billion! They knew there would be nothing wrong with that conduct. They knew the troops would always be funded. So here’s our question: When they see Bush playing voters for fools, why don’t these brave little boys and girls stand up and say something about it?

Hmmm...so Bush threatened to veto the bill, too. Maybe politics aren't as simple as the sound bites would have us think.

Bill O'Rights · 08-02-2004, 04:36 PM

Here's my take on this thread, thus far. You guys have done an admirable job in keeping it civil. I have to confess a marked lack of faith in your abilities to do so. Thank you for proving me wrong...so far.

My congratulations goes out to each and every poster in this thread.

However...I see a turn toward "Yeah, but the Democrats did blank". I'm also seeing Bush compared to Kerry. That's not what the thread is about, guys. Let's try to get, and keep, this thread back on track.

The.Lunatic · 08-02-2004, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cthulu23
Does the term "honeypot" mean anything to anyone here?

Anyway, I don't hate President Bush, but I disagree with him on about 80% of issues. Given that, my distaste for his policies is quite logical.

I bet if you had to sit in on decision making meetings with him and his advisors you would agree with upwards of 80% of his decisions and if you didn't agree you'd see that his choices in matters of decision making are often the best possible with the tools he's given

Bush doesn't run this country he makes well informed decisions on whether or not others conclusions about an issues are sound or not.

None are cut and dry because we don't have a 100% majority in the government and we have to compromise to get the best of both worlds which means each world gets a little bit of shit too, and the world continues to turn.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill O'Rights
Hmmm...I have a strong suspicion that this thread is just asking for trouble. Take note, people, that I'll be keeping a real close eye on it. That said, I don't hate GW, so much as I harbor a strong distrust. In fact, I don't think that it's the man himself that I distrust, so much as his administration.

Try reading on the web and actual transcripts of documents bush signs there are plenty of legitimate unbiased news articles out there that you can use to formulate your opinion of a man and his counsels, but if you're basing your decision on the horrible bias of the New York Times, or the ridiculousness of Fox News... Then my friend ( and i do mean friend ) I can't respect your opinion as informed.

Quote:

Originally posted by Journeyman
I hate him because I don't believe him or anyone who claims that he sincerely believed that Iraq had WMD, was an imminent threat to the US, and that is why we had to go in. As soon as I end up with that point, I see the dead-American-soldier count closing in on 1,000, I don't even know the dead-Iraqi-civilian count, and I remind myself that this asshole got where he is by a state run by his brother and election results signed by the head of his campaign committee.

So fuck him.

But yeah, this thread isn't the best idea. Feels great to rant though.

Oh come off your high horse. Sadam Hussein lost a war in which he was supposed to be removed from power, but wasn't. Big mistake admitted by all. Then UN weapons inspectors who were supposed to have free access to the country as a condition of their surrender found chemical weapons and testified that they believe the country is actively seeking more destructive WMD's

After these reports they weapons inspectors were kicked out of the country. 2 years later we get planes flown into our world trade centers and reports of terrorist cells in afgan and Iraq. Terrorists who if they had Weapons of Mass destruction would use them willingly on our country without hesitation if given the chance. It seems like a fair assumption to say Sadam had not disarmed himself as he didn't have a track record of complying with demands and was increasingly defiant to the American people.

So if you think that the idea of WMD's in Iraq was far fetched and Bush made it up so he could pull off the crusades you're rather ignorant on the subject at had than you liberal media.

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
I think that you're confusing conservative talking points with reality. Very few people actually hate bush. Hate does not come from rational thought . A large amount of people don't like bush for very persuasive reasons. Unfortunately, it is all to easy for certain people to, instead of directly confronting criticisms of bush, simply write off criticism as the hateful rantings of fringe lefties. It's is similar to the charges or "america hater" or "traitor" that frequently get levelled at anyone who dares question the current party line.

Oh, and for the record Michael Moore is a big fatass bitch.

I don't know if you've seen his movies, but they should be striped of the title documentary

Here is an excellent website depicting how phony he is. Admitted by myself he's an excellent director as he paints a picture of something that seems and feels so real, but is completely false

Bowling for Columbine Short Comings

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Farenheight 9/11 Short Comings

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=14054

Admittedly not as good of a source, but a good article that I recommend reading before seeing the movie so you can see it for just what is its.

I'm not sure what's happened to the democratic party as of late, but they seem to lack any sort of unity. I feel they've yet to pick up the pieces from the last election. And many respected democrats have been embracing clowns like Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, and former democratic presidential candidacy leader Howard Dean.

I understand a lot of the reasons why, and I think Kerry and Edwards are a reasonably good ticket, but I just can't bring myself to vote for the democrats in such disarray.

I'm going to hope that through Bush's last 4 years he's gained the experience to lobby congress to make some of the changes that people who will be voting for the democratic ticket this year are looking for.

cthulu23 · 08-02-2004, 04:51 PM

So although I disagree with Bush on defense, the economy, the environment, the war on drugs, business regulation, stem cell research, abortion, judicial appointments, gay marriage, education, medicare and almost everything else, if I just watched him make policy I would have a change of heart? Somehow I doubt it. I believe it was Otto Von Bismarck who said that those who liked sausage and politics shouldn't watch either being made.

BTW, who said anything about the NY Times or Michael Moore?

filtherton · 08-02-2004, 05:02 PM

I'm not sure how michael moore became involved with this discussion. The term "documentary" is a pretty broad one, but should probably be fodder for another thread.

Bill O'Rights · 08-02-2004, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
I'm not sure how michael moore became involved with this discussion. The term "documentary" is a pretty broad one, but should probably be fodder for another thread.

Agreed. This thread is not about Michael Moore, or his film(s). There are plenty of other threads out there that belabor that subject. If you can't find them, then PM me, and I'll direct you to them. Let's move this along.

The.Lunatic...I respect your opinions. However, I must disagree that my own opinions would change, simply by sitting in on meetings. I have been on this planet for just shy of 42 years. The opinions that I hold have been formed by years of experience and education. You can trust me in that I do not base any of my opinions on only one informational source. While I hold firm in my beliefs and opinions, I would be lying if I said that my opinions are immutable. Learned circumstances have caused me to reverse my stance on Capital Punishment, for example. In the past, I was a staunch supporter of Capital Punishment. Experience and education has caused a shift in that opinion. What I'm trying to say is that the opinions that I express are my own, not those of any particular media.

hammer4all · 08-02-2004, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seaver
Which has nothing to do with the Democrats blocking the bill at every turn? Well at least Kerry voted to properly equip the troops (including the new flack jackets), oh wait..

Because Kerry has voted Yes on all the veteran benefits... oh wait... but he voted to give the funds to give them the new flack jackets... oh wait..

Congratulations, you just fell for a bunch of Republican spin and propaganda. Unlike commercial ads which are regulated by the government and by law, must be true, political ads are constitutionally protected and can LIE all they want. Therefore, it's best NOT to trust ANY political ad you see on TV no matter WHO it's from.

http://www.factcheck.org/

*edit*: FYI, here are some related Bush ads on Kerry regarding "Defense" which are equality misleading if not more so:
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docid=147
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=177

Seaver · 08-02-2004, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Congratulations, you just fell for a bunch of Republican spin and propaganda. Unlike commercial ads which are regulated by the government and by law, must be true, political ads are constitutionally protected and can LIE all they want.

FACT: Kerry voted YES for the war.

FACT: Kerry voted NO on the bill to help supply the troops.

How hard is that? If he was so against the inclusion of the others on the bill WHY didnt he propose a bill that was the same without all the addons? It's not that difficult, he held lots of power in the Senate and in the Democratic party and could have gotten it through to the vote with little difficulty.

hammer4all · 08-02-2004, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seaver
FACT: Kerry voted YES for the war.

A completely irrelevant point.

Quote:

FACT: Kerry voted NO on the bill to help supply the troops.

How hard is that? If he was so against the inclusion of the others on the bill WHY didnt he propose a bill that was the same without all the addons? It's not that difficult, he held lots of power in the Senate and in the Democratic party and could have gotten it through to the vote with little difficulty.

So your going to sit here and tell me Kerry was voting against BODY ARMOR (which made up 1/3 of one percent of the money in the bill) when he voted against an $87 billion appropriations bill?? Oh PALEEASE!! You just lost a LOT of credibility with me...

Journeyman · 08-02-2004, 10:12 PM

Whether or not Kerry voted for the war but against a funding package for it, Bush started it on the basis of things that had as much tangibility as the goddamn easter bunny.

And that, again, is why I hate Bush.

Say... I hear there's a nutty old Dictator living somewhere north... way north, and he's got eyes EVERYWHERE. And an ICBSled... capable of delivering giftwrap nukes...

Somebody needs to get on this, now!

matteo101 · 08-02-2004, 10:48 PM

I hate any president who comes straight up and says "I am a war president"..it boggles my mind.

Seaver · 08-02-2004, 11:26 PM

Quote:

So your going to sit here and tell me Kerry was voting against BODY ARMOR (which made up 1/3 of one percent of the money in the bill) when he voted against an $87 billion appropriations bill??

He voted against the bill in which that was included, and failed to come up with an alternative that included the body armor, so yes.

Quote:

You just lost a LOT of credibility with me...

Look, I was raised by a military family, and am in the military myself, so excuses for not getting things done has never been acceptable. If he wished to get the equipment our soldiers needed, and voted against the bill that would provide it, he should have followed up with another/better alternative. I agreed with him on a lot of that bill that was porkbarreled, and if he pushed through a possible alternative I may actually support him. But he failed to do that, so I lost my respect for him.

matteo101 · 08-03-2004, 12:03 AM

The thing about Bush is, even if people are on here saying he didnt't do anything bad, which I disagree with but can respect, I really can't think of anything he has done good either. I mean, im all for having presidents who are willing to make their own chocies, and be a "strong" leader, but I also like to have a man who is educated, who I can TRUST, with the power the United States has. You guys have a pretty stong country down south of me, and I have to say i do not feel SAFE with Bush in office. I just dont think he is educated enough to do his job. Nothing against him. I think Kerry is a man who regardless of the negativity, regardless of the flip flop remarks, is a man who can do POSITVE for the country, not just stay neutral.

Sparhawk · 08-03-2004, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seaver
He voted against the bill in which that was included, and failed to come up with an alternative that included the body armor, so yes.

Look, I was raised by a military family, and am in the military myself, so excuses for not getting things done has never been acceptable. If he wished to get the equipment our soldiers needed, and voted against the bill that would provide it, he should have followed up with another/better alternative. I agreed with him on a lot of that bill that was porkbarreled, and if he pushed through a possible alternative I may actually support him. But he failed to do that, so I lost my respect for him.

Like I said in an earlier post, he did push an alternative, one that actually paid for the 87 billion out of an increased tax on the wealthy combined with a loan to Iraq. And like I said earlier, Bush threatened to veto it, and it died. Kerry voted no knowing full well that Republicans would use it against him, but decided to stand up to the political machinations of Rove and company.

Superbelt · 08-03-2004, 03:31 AM

I, like most others here don't hate the president. I do hate his policies especially regarding social issues like gay marriage, slashing of veteran benefits, destroying american labor laws (overtime), taking away civil rights and every environmental issue he has ever tackled.
Roads through our national forests, gutting New Source Review, cutting back clean water and clean air act regulations, allowing mercury levels to rise to 3 times their current levels...
(there are plenty more but these are off the top of my head right now.)

I am getting afraid for our future for several specific reasons and I admit that I am finding it possible to hate him. But only for the very specific criteria I outlined in THis thread. All stemming from what I perceive now as incompetence of office allowing another easily preventable attack from happening.

If I met him today I would be respectful for him, his position and his office.

Bill O'Rights · 08-03-2004, 04:37 AM

Ok guys...for the third and last time, KEEP IT ON TOPIC. This is not about Kerry, what he does or does not stand for, what he has voted for or against, or his shoe size in comparison to the skidmarks in his underwear. While I am seeing some good dialogue, an strong debate, it doesn't belong in this thread. As this one is ALL about Bush, if I see Kerry's name, or the Democratic party, or anything else, for that matter, not directly related to George W. Bush...I'm locking it down. Fair warning guys.

Oh...and keep playing nicely. I'm fairly impressed here.

The.Lunatic · 08-03-2004, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill O'Rights
Agreed. This thread is not about Michael Moore, or his film(s). There are plenty of other threads out there that belabor that subject. If you can't find them, then PM me, and I'll direct you to them. Let's move this along.

The.Lunatic...I respect your opinions. However, I must disagree that my own opinions would change, simply by sitting in on meetings. I have been on this planet for just shy of 42 years. The opinions that I hold have been formed by years of experience and education. You can trust me in that I do not base any of my opinions on only one informational source. While I hold firm in my beliefs and opinions, I would be lying if I said that my opinions are immutable. Learned circumstances have caused me to reverse my stance on Capital Punishment, for example. In the past, I was a staunch supporter of Capital Punishment. Experience and education has caused a shift in that opinion. What I'm trying to say is that the opinions that I express are my own, not those of any particular media.

I agree with you on Capital Punishment. In fact all of the things that the G.O.P. stands for on issues like Capital Punishment/Abortion/Gay Rights/etc... You know all those ones that are political suicide to touch I've got very democratic views, but I don't think they'll ever be able to touch any of those issues so I don't really consider them in my choices. You're opinions are also respected and I also say this tread has had good discussion.

MSD · 08-05-2004, 08:37 PM

The reason for my opposition to the current President is simple. The president is socially conservative and his spending indicates that he is economivcally quite liberal, as some have said, he's "spending like a Democrat." I am socially very liberal and economically moderately conservative (just a bit to the right of center,) which leaves me in a position where I am quite obviously and idealogical opposite. I don't feel that Bush represents me as a person.

I suppose I could be considered a "Bush hater." I feel that his assault on the separation of church and state is completely unacceptable, and I consider his support of legislation like the PATRIOT Act to be, at best, unethcial and un-American. The problems I see with the president (I only mentioned two major ones) have affected me enough that I actively campaign against him.

pan6467 · 08-06-2004, 05:34 AM

As for Bush himself, I find him to be a likeable guy. Kind of like Flounder in Animal House, actually. Someone, who's a little dim witted and wanting to be liked so bad that he allows the older guys to walk all over him and when they wreck his dad's car he just gets drunk and says," Um guys, you wanna fix the mess, my dad is gonna kill me."

That said, when it comes to the GOP I dislike the fact anyone speaking out against them is "hateful" and "unpatriotic, lefty whacko's" while they can have Limbaugh, O'Reilly and especially Ann Coulter say anything they want with no proof and, "that's not hate speak, that's just true."

I dislike how GOP mortgage the future (education, send jobs overseas, don't stand up to China's ignoring of patents and copyrights and so on) that cost the current economy millions and bankrupts our future.

I dislike the fact that the GOP preached all through the late 80's and 90's that they wanted social programs cut and a balanced budget amendment, yet, now they see nothing wrong with a president who took a projected $5 trillion dollar surpluss and is spending us into record deficits.

I dislike:

the way the GOP totally opposes universal healthcare

gives tax cuts to the top 1% while schools are going bankrupt

how they say they are 100% behind the military and spends big on the war BUT gives the soldiers a bare minimum pay and benefits AND SEVERLY cuts veterans benefits

their stance that they can walk all over seperation of church and state, and other constitutional civil rights and checks and balances and not care

the fact that there are papers that link their leaders to torture and the rest of them act like it is us who oppose torture that are the true bad guys because "they are terrorists and they don't deserve humane treatment and we're wimps and socialist pinko's because we want the terrorists to at least be treated civilly.

I could go on ......

student · 08-06-2004, 06:17 AM

I saw Bush speak at my college, Kutztown University. I listened to the speech even though I am not voting for him. He spoke as if he was not president the previous four years. Saying things like I will do this when re-elected, or more correctly, possibly elected for the first time. One thing that disturbed particularly was during the Q & A, he actually said, go ahead ask your question, if I don't like it, I'll change it. followed by his all to characteristc smirk. That may seem trivial to most of his supporters, but the fact that he would joke about that kind of scares me. He is also giving corporations tax breaks to send high paying technology jobs, jobs I am attending college to hopefully have when I graduate. overseas, saying it will help our economy grow in new directions. In an unprecedented move, went against the United Nations vote to invade Iraq, I believe they felt there wasn't strong enough evidence for an invasion. Halliburton, the company Cheney was ceo of got an uncontested bid on the rebuilding of Iraq's oil infrastructure. Cheney has had closed door meetings with power companies to rewrite environmental laws to allow them to gain more profits. Bush's military service: how he got into air national guard sans the year and half waiting list, got promoted to officer without the qualifying test, was trained to fly a jet be phased out of military service ensuring no combat action and took multiple leaves of abscence, left the service early and refused to take a drug test that tested for cocaine, citing his family doctor wasnt available, yet only a military certified doctor was allowed to administer them. So these are a few of the reasons I will not vote for Bush

Seaver · 08-06-2004, 03:18 PM

Quote:

got promoted to officer without the qualifying test

Um... there's no test to become an officer. I'm training to become one, my father was one, 4 of my uncles are currently... there's no test. You need a college degree (GPA 2.5), and need to undergo Officer training. But there's no test.

On all the other military stuff you listed... yeah must be nice to have powerful friends.

JumpinJesus · 08-06-2004, 08:56 PM

Like most of the people on here, I don't hate Bush. What I do hate is how our political process has painted all people on all sides as one-dimensional and we all take the bait like starving fish.

I dislike much of what Bush has represented as president. He spoke of humility as a sign of a powerful nation then set about insulting nations who refused to back his preemptive strike in Iraq.

Our nation has never, ever struck first. We have always maintained our military as a defensive body only. Bush has changed the nature of our relationships with the world and he has created an atmosphere where many of our allies are terrified of what we may do next. His reaction to their concerns seems to be an attitude of "go to hell if you don't like it." This man and his Dr. Strangelove adminstration scare the hell out of me.

08-02-2004, 11:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
jcookc6 Psycho Location: Venice, Florida	Specific Reasons Why You Hate Pres.Bush! It obvious that a lot of people HATE President Bush. It would be interesting to see the specific reasons that have been PROVED, why you hate him. ie, he lied about WMD, that is not specific, you don't know he lied, alot of people thought there was WMD.

08-02-2004, 11:35 AM	#3 (permalink)
Averett Is In Love Location: I'm workin' on it	WhyWhyWHY? So if somebody comes here and says "I hate him because he's from Texas" that would be okay? It's a valid, specific and PROVED reason right? But it's pretty fucking stupid. I envision this thread being closed, and closed fast. __________________ Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

08-02-2004, 11:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Hmmm...I have a strong suspicion that this thread is just *asking* for trouble. Take note, people, that I'll be keeping a real close eye on it. That said, I don't hate GW, so much as I harbor a strong distrust. In fact, I don't think that it's the man himself that I distrust, so much as his administration. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

08-02-2004, 11:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
Polyphobic Runt Location: Denver	Hate? Politicians aren't worth that effort. Dislike would be more appropriate. __________________ <--The great infidel-->

08-02-2004, 02:04 PM	#9 (permalink)
cthulu23 Banned	Although "honeypot" has many meanings, in the tech field it is an intentionally vulnerable computer or network that is set up to catch intrusion attempts, denial of service attacks or other forms of technical malfeasance. I kind of see a honeypot quality to this thread....the perfect place to out yourself as a crazy liberal and prove right those who speak of Democratic hate speech. Last edited by cthulu23; 08-02-2004 at 02:09 PM..

08-02-2004, 11:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
cthulu23 Banned	Does the term "honeypot" mean anything to anyone here? Anyway, I don't hate President Bush, but I disagree with him on about 80% of issues. Given that, my distaste for his policies is quite logical.

08-02-2004, 11:52 AM	#6 (permalink)
Journeyman Like John Goodman, but not. Location: SFBA, California	I hate him because I don't believe him or anyone who claims that he sincerely believed that Iraq had WMD, was an imminent threat to the US, and that is why we had to go in. As soon as I end up with that point, I see the dead-American-soldier count closing in on 1,000, I don't even know the dead-Iraqi-civilian count, and I remind myself that this asshole got where he is by a state run by his brother and election results signed by the head of his campaign committee. So fuck him. But yeah, this thread isn't the best idea. Feels great to rant though.

08-02-2004, 12:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I don't hate bush, i just hate his doggy style.

08-02-2004, 02:07 PM	#10 (permalink)
jcookc6 Psycho Location: Venice, Florida	Maybe people here don't Hate the president, but you hear it all day long. People say they hate Bush, but don't say why. I just thought it would be a good discussion, to see why people hate him.

08-02-2004, 02:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
cthulu23 Banned	Fair enough. It struck me as funny because I was discussing political "hate" in another thread and up popped this one. Perfect timing, really

08-02-2004, 02:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I think that you're confusing conservative talking points with reality. Very few people actually hate bush. Hate does not come from rational thought. A large amount of people don't like bush for very persuasive reasons. Unfortunately, it is all to easy for certain people to, instead of directly confronting criticisms of bush, simply write off criticism as the hateful rantings of fringe lefties. It's is similar to the charges or "america hater" or "traitor" that frequently get levelled at anyone who dares question the current party line.

08-02-2004, 02:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
Wax_off No Avatar, No Sig.	I don't hate the guy, I just think he's inept, and not fit to be our president. In the other thread someone (tecoyah?) said that hate is often a product of fear. People fear that Bush & Co. are taking away the things that they hold dear. Distrust is something else that can contribute to fear, and this administration hasn't been the best about being straight with the American public. That fear and distrust is converted into hate. Kinda too bad, but there it is.

08-02-2004, 03:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
fuzyfuzer Insane Location: st. louis	i don't hate him at all, now i can't agree with his beliefs in control of the country. i see myself closer to a libretarian (can't spell don't hate me ). i look at the issues and see that i can't let Kerry happen to me . even more important though i want a republican governer for missouri over a dem because of there stance on tort reform. (thats a different thread) personally i feel the same about Kerry as many of you seem to feel about Bush so no harm no foul. __________________ "The difference between commiment and involvment is like a ham and egg breakfast the chicken was involved but the pig was commited" "Thrice happy is the nation that has a glorious history. Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt

08-02-2004, 03:13 PM	#16 (permalink)
jbuffett Tilted	1. Turning back of environmental laws. 2. Flip-flopping-(promising to fund no child left behind and not doing it, promising to properly equip our troops before sending them into battle and not doing it....so on and so on) 3. Trying to legislate our bedrooms. 4. Weakening our status in the world by causing us to be seen a renegade cowboy run nation. 5. Cutting veteran's benefits. 6. Sacrificing our civil liberties in the name of security. 7. Failing to right an economy that should be stronger than any in the world. 8. Playing politics with judges. Bush complains about a handful of his extremist nominees not being approved--even after a vast majority of his judges have been rubber stamped by congress. Claiming any judge who makes a decision he doesn't agree with is an "Activist Judge" If it wern't for judges who make decisions contrary to the American majority, Bush wouldn't be President (Gore got 500,000 more popular votes than Bush). These are just a few off the top of my head, but gives me enough of a reason to strongly dislike Bush. __________________ I do blame you for voting for Bush.

08-02-2004, 04:36 PM	#20 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Here's my take on this thread, thus far. You guys have done an admirable job in keeping it civil. I have to confess a marked lack of faith in your abilities to do so. Thank you for proving me wrong...so far. My congratulations goes out to each and every poster in this thread. However...I see a turn toward "Yeah, but the Democrats did blank". I'm also seeing Bush compared to Kerry. That's not what the thread is about, guys. Let's try to get, and keep, this thread back on track. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

08-02-2004, 04:51 PM	#22 (permalink)
cthulu23 Banned	So although I disagree with Bush on defense, the economy, the environment, the war on drugs, business regulation, stem cell research, abortion, judicial appointments, gay marriage, education, medicare and almost everything else, if I just watched him make policy I would have a change of heart? Somehow I doubt it. I believe it was Otto Von Bismarck who said that those who liked sausage and politics shouldn't watch either being made. BTW, who said anything about the NY Times or Michael Moore?

08-02-2004, 05:02 PM	#23 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I'm not sure how michael moore became involved with this discussion. The term "documentary" is a pretty broad one, but should probably be fodder for another thread.

08-02-2004, 10:12 PM	#28 (permalink)
Journeyman Like John Goodman, but not. Location: SFBA, California	Whether or not Kerry voted for the war but against a funding package for it, Bush started it on the basis of things that had as much tangibility as the goddamn easter bunny. And that, again, is why I hate Bush. Say... I hear there's a nutty old Dictator living somewhere north... way north, and he's got eyes EVERYWHERE. And an ICBSled... capable of delivering giftwrap nukes... Somebody needs to get on this, now!

08-02-2004, 10:48 PM	#29 (permalink)
matteo101 In transition Location: north, no south abit, over to the right, getting warmer...there!	I hate any president who comes straight up and says "I am a war president"..it boggles my mind.

08-03-2004, 12:03 AM	#31 (permalink)
matteo101 In transition Location: north, no south abit, over to the right, getting warmer...there!	The thing about Bush is, even if people are on here saying he didnt't do anything bad, which I disagree with but can respect, I really can't think of anything he has done good either. I mean, im all for having presidents who are willing to make their own chocies, and be a "strong" leader, but I also like to have a man who is educated, who I can TRUST, with the power the United States has. You guys have a pretty stong country down south of me, and I have to say i do not feel SAFE with Bush in office. I just dont think he is educated enough to do his job. Nothing against him. I think Kerry is a man who regardless of the negativity, regardless of the flip flop remarks, is a man who can do POSITVE for the country, not just stay neutral.

08-03-2004, 03:31 AM	#33 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	I, like most others here don't hate the president. I do hate his policies especially regarding social issues like gay marriage, slashing of veteran benefits, destroying american labor laws (overtime), taking away civil rights and every environmental issue he has ever tackled. Roads through our national forests, gutting New Source Review, cutting back clean water and clean air act regulations, allowing mercury levels to rise to 3 times their current levels... (there are plenty more but these are off the top of my head right now.) I am getting afraid for our future for several specific reasons and I admit that I am finding it possible to hate him. But only for the very specific criteria I outlined in THis thread. All stemming from what I perceive now as incompetence of office allowing another easily preventable attack from happening. If I met him today I would be respectful for him, his position and his office.

08-03-2004, 04:37 AM	#34 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Ok guys...for the third and last time, KEEP IT ON TOPIC. This is not about Kerry, what he does or does not stand for, what he has voted for or against, or his shoe size in comparison to the skidmarks in his underwear. While I am seeing some good dialogue, an strong debate, it doesn't belong in this thread. As this one is ALL about Bush, if I see Kerry's name, or the Democratic party, or anything else, for that matter, not directly related to George W. Bush...I'm locking it down. Fair warning guys. Oh...and keep playing nicely. I'm fairly impressed here. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

08-05-2004, 08:37 PM	#36 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	The reason for my opposition to the current President is simple. The president is socially conservative and his spending indicates that he is economivcally quite liberal, as some have said, he's "spending like a Democrat." I am socially very liberal and economically moderately conservative (just a bit to the right of center,) which leaves me in a position where I am quite obviously and idealogical opposite. I don't feel that Bush represents me as a person. I suppose I could be considered a "Bush hater." I feel that his assault on the separation of church and state is completely unacceptable, and I consider his support of legislation like the PATRIOT Act to be, at best, unethcial and un-American. The problems I see with the president (I only mentioned two major ones) have affected me enough that I actively campaign against him.

08-06-2004, 05:34 AM	#37 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	As for Bush himself, I find him to be a likeable guy. Kind of like Flounder in Animal House, actually. Someone, who's a little dim witted and wanting to be liked so bad that he allows the older guys to walk all over him and when they wreck his dad's car he just gets drunk and says," Um guys, you wanna fix the mess, my dad is gonna kill me." That said, when it comes to the GOP I dislike the fact anyone speaking out against them is "hateful" and "unpatriotic, lefty whacko's" while they can have Limbaugh, O'Reilly and especially Ann Coulter say anything they want with no proof and, "that's not hate speak, that's just true." I dislike how GOP mortgage the future (education, send jobs overseas, don't stand up to China's ignoring of patents and copyrights and so on) that cost the current economy millions and bankrupts our future. I dislike the fact that the GOP preached all through the late 80's and 90's that they wanted social programs cut and a balanced budget amendment, yet, now they see nothing wrong with a president who took a projected $5 trillion dollar surpluss and is spending us into record deficits. I dislike: the way the GOP totally opposes universal healthcare gives tax cuts to the top 1% while schools are going bankrupt how they say they are 100% behind the military and spends big on the war BUT gives the soldiers a bare minimum pay and benefits AND SEVERLY cuts veterans benefits their stance that they can walk all over seperation of church and state, and other constitutional civil rights and checks and balances and not care the fact that there are papers that link their leaders to torture and the rest of them act like it is us who oppose torture that are the true bad guys because "they are terrorists and they don't deserve humane treatment and we're wimps and socialist pinko's because we want the terrorists to at least be treated civilly. I could go on ...... __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

08-06-2004, 06:17 AM	#38 (permalink)
student Crazy	I saw Bush speak at my college, Kutztown University. I listened to the speech even though I am not voting for him. He spoke as if he was not president the previous four years. Saying things like I will do this when re-elected, or more correctly, possibly elected for the first time. One thing that disturbed particularly was during the Q & A, he actually said, go ahead ask your question, if I don't like it, I'll change it. followed by his all to characteristc smirk. That may seem trivial to most of his supporters, but the fact that he would joke about that kind of scares me. He is also giving corporations tax breaks to send high paying technology jobs, jobs I am attending college to hopefully have when I graduate. overseas, saying it will help our economy grow in new directions. In an unprecedented move, went against the United Nations vote to invade Iraq, I believe they felt there wasn't strong enough evidence for an invasion. Halliburton, the company Cheney was ceo of got an uncontested bid on the rebuilding of Iraq's oil infrastructure. Cheney has had closed door meetings with power companies to rewrite environmental laws to allow them to gain more profits. Bush's military service: how he got into air national guard sans the year and half waiting list, got promoted to officer without the qualifying test, was trained to fly a jet be phased out of military service ensuring no combat action and took multiple leaves of abscence, left the service early and refused to take a drug test that tested for cocaine, citing his family doctor wasnt available, yet only a military certified doctor was allowed to administer them. So these are a few of the reasons I will not vote for Bush

08-06-2004, 08:56 PM	#40 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	Like most of the people on here, I don't hate Bush. What I do hate is how our political process has painted all people on all sides as one-dimensional and we all take the bait like starving fish. I dislike much of what Bush has represented as president. He spoke of humility as a sign of a powerful nation then set about insulting nations who refused to back his preemptive strike in Iraq. Our nation has never, ever struck first. We have always maintained our military as a defensive body only. Bush has changed the nature of our relationships with the world and he has created an atmosphere where many of our allies are terrified of what we may do next. His reaction to their concerns seems to be an attitude of "go to hell if you don't like it." This man and his Dr. Strangelove adminstration scare the hell out of me. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses