pan6467

I have been reading the locked threads and they have done a great job at maintaining their temperments, warnings and policing. They have not on any thread arbitrarily locked it.

Some of us, and I am the first to admit, lose rationality when we feel attacked personally or our words are being twisted by someone else to push their beliefs.

We all need to remember that deep down we all know the other loves the USA or they wouldn't have the passion to post here. It's just hard to do when your as passionate about your beliefs as someone else.

Anyway, back to the topic. I am not trying to brownnose or be a Mr. Smoochy-Kiss-Butt, rather I am just showing my admiration and sincere respect for those who are doing a good job of giving us the freedom to say what we want, yet shutting us up when we deserve it.

You are deeply respected and appreciated,

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

QuasiMojo

"yet shutting us up when we deserve it."

I would like you to write this on the blackboard 1000 times
then go clap out the erasers.

you tool!

__________________
AzAbOv ZoBeLoE

pan6467

Yes, as we do have rights to freely speak and express ourselves but WHEN those words and expressions become attacking, hateful and truly lose all reason, AND we have been warned we are abusing the rights.

Then WE LOSE THOSE RIGHTS.

Trust me, I'm sure anyone on here will atest I am very outspoken about my right to speak. BUT along with it comes responsibility.

I start calling people Fucker and Asshole and degrading them and getting off topic and trying to start a thread fight, then I have no right to speak in that thread anymore because I was unable to be ADULT enough to be responsible.

The Mods need applauded for maintaining this order and their tempers.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

mml

Funny this thread came along. I have noticed how many threads have been locked and for the most part, it has been a blessing. However, on SF's "murder is murder" thread the whole thing was quashed after 12 posts!? Now, I totally disagree with SF, but he has his opinion, and it deserves more than 12 rebutals. Hell, I started a lame "do you lean to the left or right" thread and it is still going. Just my opinion, but it seems like the mods are cracking down a littel too quickly.

The politics threads are a mess, just like actual politics, but I dislike censorship in any form.

__________________
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
-Douglas Adams

WarWagon

I just give the mods even more credit for catching it ahead of time. That thread was GUARANTEED to get out of hand. Hell, I wish there was a way for me to "block" all of Tilted Politics as of late.

Strange Famous

My judgement is that the moderators close threads which are based on a political view they do not share. In their opinion, being a communist or a pacifist just means flaming. I think it is a shame, but you cannot have a real political discussion if only certain voices are permitted to speak.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

debaser

The problem, SF, is that you post threads with inflamatory titles and use sources that often don't pann out. You then continue to debate as if that source is gospel, even after it has been very thoroughly debunked. You come across as dogmatic and unwilling to compromise.

There are individuals on this board who hold very similar opinions to yours who are respected because they listen to others views.

Contrary to what you may think, you don't have all the answers.

__________________

Peetster

If this were the case we wouldn't even have a politics board.

Tophat665

For the most part, I think the mods do a pretty good job. If they are a little quick to pull the trigger, I remember I am a guest here. I really like that Lebell generally fires a warning shot before a thread is locked, and I'd really like it if that were policy - fire a warning shot, and wait an hour or two or three posts (or so) to see if it sinks in, then lock the thread if .... I'm going to take this over to suggestions. I have a thought.

__________________
Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Peetster

Not an encouraging first reply.

*edit: lost a bracket in the quote, fixed it.*

seretogis

edit:

__________________
seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Bill O'Rights

Where does that come from? I have never seen a thread locked down based soley on a political viewpoint. And if you stop for a moment and think about it , neither have you. Even amoungst the moderators there is a broad spectrum of political idealogies. Have you never seen sixate and myself square off? Think about it. Whose view, amoung the moderators, are you supposing carries the weight when the decision is made to close a thread? It is the presentation, not the content that forces our hand when locking a thread.

Strange Famous, although I personally like you, you're pushing it with that statement. Being a communist or a pacifist no more equals flaming that does being a neo-conservative. flaming equals flaming...no more, and no less. Once again, it's in the presentation. No matter what your idealogy, if your views are put out in an antagonistic manner, it's gonna get knocked down.

There is a difference between a political discussion, and political discourse. At no time are "only certain voices are permitted to speak". All are welcome, even encouraged, to voice an opinion on any topic...provided that it is done so in a non hostile and respectful manner. In a large part, we succeed with that. Occasionally, however, passions get the better of us, and that's when the moderators have to step in to regain control. If it is deemed to be so out of control that it is unrecoverable, then it is locked down. Nothing more sinister than that.

These are the facts that I have laid before you, Strange Famous. You may choose to either agree or to disagree...that is up to you. If, however, you choose to disagree, then my challenge to you is to prove my position as invalid with fact and evidence, not rhetoric or suppositions.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

seretogis

Clearly you are simply a cog in the vast conspiracy against SF and his comrades. It is a terrible shame that members of this board are so incredibly conservative as to never, ever, listen to anothers views without locking their thread, printing it out and shredding it, and then burning it at the stake. According to the newspaper which I print in my parents' basement, the moderators on this board are out of control. Especially that Original King guy -- what a Nazi he is!

Mods: Feel free to replace this post with a shameless pass at OK if it's seen as condescending to our commie friends.

__________________
seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

OFKU0

But maybe at times "only certain voices will be permitted to speak" if those who choose to be difficult continue to be difficult.

I don't know if this is possible or not, but instead of locking a thread that has good content because of a few who choose to be difficult, why not have the mods tell that person they are out of that thread, and do it for the benefit of the entire thread. Kinda like kicking someone out of a room where a discussion is taking place. And if they don't listen, ban them.

I wouldn't see this as censorship but rather as people learning to show not only more respect, but a more intelligent way to express their opinions. It doesn't matter if people disagree with one another but rather how they choose to disagree that is a problem at times.

Opinions are opinions no matter how staunchly supported by one side or the other. To have blinders on to all except oneself isn't condusive to the development of any discussion.

A wise man has big ears and a small mouth. Sometimes when the ears are open instead of the mouth, we learn something.

__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

HarmlessRabbit

The mods are pretty fair here. In one case I recall, a mod was made no longer a mod because he deleted posts that he didn't agree with.

Ultimately, this is just a phpBB site with Boobies, with the added bonus of some fun discussion boards. If the mods wanted to make this a conservative-only politics board, I would just find another place to argue.

Lebell

I don't believe we can do that with the current board code.

We have kicked around the idea of a temporary ban before going to a full ban, but no decision has been made.


As to SF's charges, the majority of the board disagrees with him and he is free to find another private board if he so chooses.

Of course, there is a great deal of irony since he has actively questioned American's "fixation" on the First Amendment, especially in regards to "hate" speech and I would consider most of his political posts boarding on said speech.

But the bottom line is that Halx wants us to mod a certain way and we try to follow those directives, and if we can't then we lose this high paying gig

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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filtherton

Ironic, for one who whines so predictably at only left-leaning flame posts.

Where's that troll gif?

Lebell

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!

djtestudo

Actually, I think the irony is in your missing of sarcasm

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

losthellhound

I think my only problem with the locking of threads is the timing. I know its hard to keep track of whats happening, but it seems that alot of name calling, alot of trash talking happens before a moderator steps in and calms people down. Ive noticed that they dont have to lock threads, just be there and make a comment to calm it down. Most of the time.

I'd guess you just need more moderators.. Shouldnt be too hard to find, if thats the way you go..

__________________
"Life is possible only with illusions. And so, the question for the science of mental health must become an absolutely new and revolutionary one, yet one that reflects the essence of the human condition: On what level of illusion does one live?"
-- Ernest Becker, The Denial of Death

Hanxter

we added this forum for all to discuss their issues with world events...

what we have to keep in mind is not what we the Mods/Admins feel is the "correct" opinion but that the direction the thread goes is on topic and respectful of other's opinions...

that is what we refer to as freedom of speech - freedom of mind - freedom of expression...

vary from that and you have a discussion rife with disorganzation and sarcasm - which offers what?

i, for one, have stayed out of this forum (only 'cuz i don't dicuss politics or religion in the open) but have found lately that due to
the off the wall, incesant rants about some folks not agreeing with some folks has turned this into chaos...

bottom line - this forum is yours to discuss your feelings on issues that mean a great deal to you - but keep in mind - we are all unique and some may agree with you and some may not...

the Mods/Admins do a great deal of work reading each and every thread and post trying to understand your lack of grammar & punctuation let alone your lack of respect for others emotions...

have a nice day...

edit - and thank you all above for your support - you know who you are...

Hanxter

definition of communism...
a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production with the professed aim of establishing a stateless society

definition of pacifism...
is a personal rejection of war and violence, It is the rejection of one's participation in any act of violence by refraining from emotional, psychological, physical and verbal violence, pacifists reject war in all forms and rejects the notion of the "just war"

"and verbal violence" - and isn't that what you're doing?

smooth

I doubt he missed the sarcasm. I didn't miss it, but I had the same objection to the post because being sarcastic is rude. What does it add to a political discussion other than to illustrate one's disdain for the other's opinion?

As Hanxter put it,
I haven't seen any mods getting out of hand, even though I might have interpreted on or two closures as a bit heavy-handed.

They've only been closing posts down in the past few weeks. The regular posters in this section have been warned for months this was going to start occurring--I think a few of us even asked for it (explicitly as well as with out actions )

There was a short time when things started to ease up, but now the posts started to spiral again.

Regardless, thanks for the hard work you all do. This has got to be some thankless shit that some days you may even wonder why you bother.

Lebell

I don't mean to belabor a point, but I got to thinking, which is a dangerous thing

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Posts by Strange Famous

closed
-----------

-murder is murder Total posts: 12 Locked by: analog
-US attack kills* 40 worshippers as they gather to prey at mosque Total posts: 103 Locked by analog
-Is Ann Coulter the most vile person in America? Total posts: 47 Locked by: MrSelfDestruct
-A vote for Bush is a vote for intolerance Total posts: 34 Locked by: Analog
-It is time to reclaim America Total posts: 47 Locked by: Lebell

(*Original title: US murders 40 worshippers as they gather to prey at mosque)

open
-----------
-One year of war
-When you think politicians will sink no lower
-Should it be illegal not to vote?
-Clintonism & the lack of choice
-This is the type of protest that brings down governments
-Tony Blair is a Lying Liar who tells Lies
-Does anyone know howmany people were killed
-Is this the true face of the "Pro Life" campaign??
-Poll indicates over half of British people believe Blair is a liar and should resign
-The "45 Minute" claim is collapsing, Blair must resign
-Some interesting background on Lord Hutton
-Blair the liar, Blair the murderer - cleared by kangeroo court today
-Have you ever killed anyone?
-The American people's rejection of Bush is growing...
-Good article on Iraq by Naomi Klein
-"The Moronic Inferno"...
-Brazil Begins Fingerprinting U.S. Travelers
-This is what is at stake
-The Red Flame of Socialist Courage...
-is there any real proof that Usama Bin Laden organised the WTC attacks?
-Proportional Representation
-Interesting article "Imperialism and the capture of Saddam Hussain"
-Does the state have the right to not allow gay marriage?
-The hypocrisy that sickens the decent opinion of making



Posts on Communism (all except Strange Famous)
-----------------------------------

open
-----------
-So. . .why did we hate communism so much? started by: shakran
-Communist Manifesto started by: Stilzkin
-Communist Goals obtained yet? started by: mrsandman
-Terrorist is to communist started by: KoKenZen
-Jesus was a communist started by: jewbag
-Marxism,Communism and Socialism started by: BBtB
-Communists not invited to Iraqi leadership meeting Started by: stan the man

closed
-----------

*none*

-------------------------------------------------------------

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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Please Donate!

filtherton

I think what's being missed, is that sarcasm is not conducive to the constructive exchange of ideas. Seretogis post served no purpose in the overall framework of this thread other than to mock SF. That is called trolling. My post served no purpose other than to point out that it is usually seretogis who leads the charge against trolling(usually only when lefties do it), and that being the case, it is ironic for him to then troll against the person he always accuses of trolling.

Even if i had missed the sarcasm, it would not have been ironic.

Back to the topic. I commend the mods for doing their duty and putting up with a manchild such as myself. I do, however, think that some threads are locked prematurely, for instance, the murder is murder thread.

I think that, while there is a certain amount of trolling, threads get out of hand when both sides fail to react in a mature, measured manner. Flaming is the result of people refusing to calm down before they post. Flamebating is only effective when people take the bait. I think more people need to take responisiblity for their actions and not rush to react so passionately and foolishly.
Speaking of flamebaitng, SF gets a lot of shit for flamebaiting. I'm not going to name names, but i'm aware of plenty of righties who start threads with exactly the same tone as him, only from the other side of the aisle, who don't get a second glance from all of the self-professed troll hawks. I've also noticed on a few occasions where certain folk on the right have started name-calling, that the thread will only get locked or warned after i have returned the favor. Maybe that's just an innocent result of timing.

Hanxter

gonna be a "fun" election year...

"" = sarcasm...

bermuDa

one of the reasons I stay out of but probably should spend more time in this forum. All these incindiary threads would make great practice for me as a mod, but the volume of flaming is discouraging.

I'll check back in intervals, the politics board just isn't in my usual rounds

__________________
I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

MSD

We remove rudeness; we don't censor based on content beyond the basic standards of human decency.

Halx

I rather think this board is a huge success. I mean, we got you all here, throwing around your opinions. If we can get*most* of you to agree that the moderators handle situations sufficiently, isn't that the same as winning an election?

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

seretogis

You're overreacting, and I think you're mistaken about the definition of troll.

The only part of that post even directed towards SF was the first sentence. The rest was a humorous (if I must say so myself) depiction of what TFP is not. If my intent was solely to mock SF, my post would have been much, much longer and I would probably not be typing this. The above post was made in good-humor, not intended to be mean-spirited though I can see how some people could take it that way (hence the "Mods:" edit).

I think that this board (Politics) would be a lot more tolerable to read and post on if people would stop being so alarmist. My thread was locked? Surely, it is an insult to everything I stand for! Someone made a joke? I must taunt them a second time! Get back to the issues and leave the petty ego-massaging at fark/SA/wherever. I don't envy the mods -- they are investing a considerable amount of time to keep everyone "safe" and to suggest that they have malicious intentions is just asinine. I recommend that anyone with such an opinion of TFP should go elsewhere and try to find a better board.

Is it just me, or does every thread praising the mods turn into a place for people to whine about being oppressed?

__________________
seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Stare At The Sun

Considering I started a thread about Hitlers GOOD points, and it eventually lead into Holocaust denial, and yet, wasn't locked for some time; I think that is a testament to both the members of this board and the mods.

When we want to do something, and act like civil adults. We can do it. However, I would agree that some trolling just has to stop.

HarmlessRabbit

Look, a damp tart distributing swords is no basis for a government.

OFKU0

If we were all in Florida yeah,.. I don't know what that means.

Going to go cheer for my hockey team,...drunk YEAH.

Halx for President

Onward fellow,... whatever

__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

analog

Well, not really, that’s why we have that nifty “report this post to a moderator” link on every post- so that you can alert us when things like that happen. The amount of moderators necessary to cover EVERY forum and EVERY post in every thread ALL the time would be staggering, and unnecessary. And sometimes, a flame might be left alone (temporarily) if it’s not all that bad, because you all have (at times) reversed yourselves and kept each other in check.

Yeah, no shit. Thanks

Well, first of all, that’s simply not true, and a fair bit insulting to say the least. To be honest, many political “party” terms mean nothing to me, as I have no idea what they stand for on all the issues- as many of you do/think you do.

Second, I closed 4* of your 5 closed threads (as listed by Lebell) myself, and I have no political affiliation whatsoever. I HATE politics. I hate talking politics, I don’t like to read about politics, and I am in no way active on any real issue. I have my own beliefs, but I don’t assert them in any real politically tangible way. If you’ll notice, I rarely, if ever, post my own non-official-mod-stuff posts in Tilted Politics- and when I do, it’s usually just because something peeved me enough to make me want to weight in with my $0.02.

The 1* thread not closed by myself was closed after, in my opinion, all hope was lost. I’d also have closed it- and maybe a few posts sooner.

I HATE censorship in any form.

Only problem is, WarWagon said it very well already:

I couldn’t have said it better, because it wouldn’t weigh as heavily coming from my name.

Considering that:

1. The thread starter already had 4 other posts started by him go very very sour due to the way the topic and subject matter was presented and perpetuated, and

2. They always went downhill in much the same fashion- always degrading into a volley of flaming and trolling,

I do not think it is unreasonable for me to say that- even if I couldn’t normally see it coming- It was blindingly obvious in this case, based on past threads of that nature.

Also, I might mention in my own defense (but more just to offer explanation, I have no reason to defend it) that his argument was largely speculation and opinion, with little to back up his very controversial, damaging, and politically white-hot assertions.

Closing that thread was an easy decision, and an obvious necessity. I apologize to those who feel they may have had something of value to contribute- I was not trying to censor you, and I think most of you know this. Had it been phrased differently (better, not as a troll) and had it more factual information or sources to back it up, it’d still be open (most likely) and up for discussion.

Thanks for reading.

-analog.

*EDIT:

That's actually not true- I closed that thread as well, MrSelfDestruct accidentally posted to it afterwards, making it 4 of his 5 threads I closed.

World's King

I should close this thread just to get a dumb reaction in another thread and keep the ball of ignorance rolling.

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

pan6467

Damn, I am sorry, I thought I could post a thread thanking the mods and congratulating them on a good job. i didn't expect all the people from the first reply to act like a simple thank you is the end of the world.

There were no politics mentioned, I made no leftist or rightist or flaming comment. All I wanted was to show the mods appreciation for being here and that we could all be civil for 1 thread.

Next time I try to do something nice someone just kick me in the head a few times.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Strange Famous

Simply as an aside, those may be your definitions but they are not mine. A communist society, as Marx taught, is actually incompatible with the existence of a state at all, once the higher communism is created by the proleteriat. Communism simply means "to each what she needs, from each what he can give"

And to me pacifism means that is wrong to fight except in self defence.

And what I see on this board is simply that anything that comes from some perspectives is censored.

If you look through the politics board, you wont find one example of me personally attacking anyone, but you will find constant personal attacks made by people against me - and yet I am blamed because I have opinions that apparently incite people to attack me so it is my fault. Here is the freedom of speech then.

What makes me feel unwelcome here isnt really that I find this unfair, I mean I could easily try to enjoy the rest of the board and just ignore the politics... what makes me feel sad is things that seem self evident to me (ie - my beliefs about what America is doing in Fallujah) are apparently considered by the people who run this board to be so outlandish that I must just be "flame baiting" or whatever they choose to call it. What I feel in my heart is apparently so ridicolous it is not worthy of discussion,,, I really look at the way this site is run and feel like we are from two different worlds. It does make me angry because I cant see how people can be so complacent, and so uncaring.

So I am going to pravda forum instead to talk about politics... about 50% of the political posters there are EXTREME anti semites, people who deny the holocaust, who blame Israel for 9-11 and just about everything else, people who openly wish for the destruction of zionism and Israel... sometimes it isnt so much fun but at least I can talk about how I feel there without knowing everything I say can be edited or closed just because my opinions are a way to the left of most others.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Peetster

It is clear to me that you either didn't bother reading any of the responses to you, or you didn't understand them. Instead of commenting on substance presented, you revert back to the same claims of persecution. You are a broken record.


I respect your intent, and appreciate your effort. Thank you.

Hanxter

Fee-Fee Fi-Fi Fo-Fo Fum
I smell smoke in the auditorium

Charlie Brown, Charlie Brown
He's a clown, that Charlie Brown
He's gonna get caught
Just you wait and see
Why's everybody always pickin' on me

analog

This post makes me a very happy analog.