Dean Done - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

123dsa · 02-18-2004, 11:15 AM

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040218_677.html

WASHINGTON Feb. 18 — Howard Dean will end his campaign for the presidential nomination and oversee a new effort to keep his issues alive and his supporters organized on behalf of Democratic causes, two party officials said Wednesday.
Dean was to announce his plans at a news conference Wednesday afternoon, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

__________________________________________________

And then there were 2. Did anybody actually believe that he was going to stay in the race? I don't think we'll see him for a bit. At any rate I saw that he plans to keep his name on the ballot.

LSD

Sparhawk · 02-18-2004, 11:17 AM

*Pours one out for his dead homie

Ustwo · 02-18-2004, 11:33 AM

Assassinated by a press core who didn't think he could beat Bush. I'd almost feel for him, if he wasn't so wrong on so many issues.

Superbelt · 02-18-2004, 11:49 AM

Dean's chances of being President are dead, but his campaign won the primary. Both Kerry and Edwards are running Dean 2.0 campaigns.

I'm sad to see him go, but I am excited for what he has done to the party and for what he is setting himself up to do for it in the next several years. Or, even the small possibility of being Edwards running mate and watching him trash Cheney in the Presidential debates.

Ustwo · 02-18-2004, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
Or, even the small possibility of being Edwards running mate and watching him trash Cheney in the Presidential debates.

Its a debate not a pig calling contest.

Yeeearrrrh!

But on the serious side, the last time a democrat 'trashed' a republican in a national debate was on West Wing. Why you guys have such confidence of it this time, I can't imagine.

Superbelt · 02-18-2004, 12:00 PM

Actually the last time a democrat trashed a republican was yesterday when Ben Chandler beat Kerr in the Kentucky district 6 US congress special election race.

Results
Chandler (D): 54.6
Kerr (R): 43.6
Chandler carried 14 of 16 counties.
http://www.wkyt.com/Global/link.asp?...0&nav=4CAKKt3i
Kerr ran on her support of Bush and his policies. She was soundly TRASHED

Is this a signal of the nations mood?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in600622.shtml

This is a VERY conservative region where a democrat has not held that seat in over 50 years. That's a long time for a congress-seat.

Woo Hoo Chandler!

Sparhawk · 02-18-2004, 12:13 PM

A little more info to piggyback on Superbelt:

Quote:

Kentucky's 6th District, which includes Frankfort and Lexington, encompasses 16 counties in central Kentucky. It is a Republican-leaning district and in 2000, President Bush carried the 6th District with 55.5 percent of the vote. Gov. Fletcher also won the district during his recent gubernatorial race by 55.6 percent of the vote. And, in previous congressional elections, Fletcher consistently won the seat by solid margins, garnering 53 percent in 1998, 53 percent again in 2000 and 72 percent in 2002.

Sparhawk · 02-18-2004, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
Its a debate not a pig calling contest.

Yeeearrrrh!

But on the serious side, the last time a democrat 'trashed' a republican in a national debate was on West Wing. Why you guys have such confidence of it this time, I can't imagine.

Hopefully Dean would be a little more prepared than Lieberman was, especially with a bald-faced lie like "the government had absolutely nothing to do" with Cheney's success in the previous 8 years.

Scipio · 02-18-2004, 12:26 PM

Kerry and Edwards are NOT running Dean 2.0 campaigns. Kerry is running a pretty traditional campaign, and Edwards is an insurgent, though he isn't using the internet like Dean did. Dean's campaign was defined by its anti-war in Iraq message. Kerry and Edwards aren't pushing that point as hard as Dean did.

Superbelt · 02-18-2004, 12:46 PM

I disagree. Campaigns have their differing points, but the main pack has been eerily similar in their positions. Especially the Iraq war. Dean forced that issue. Dean also forced the energy into the campaign and he forced a backbone back into the democrats making it ok and necessary for a candidate to start attacking Bush's policies and telling america how much we need a change. None of that would be on the table without Dean.
We would be stuck with a heartless spineless Lieberman type who runs on the campaign of... Um... Vote for me because I agree with everything Bush does.

I honestly believe, without Howard having done what he did, neither Kerry nor Edwards would be in such a favorable position to win the Presidency.
I think Dean changed them both. And did it for the better so they feel the ability to stand up for what they really believe in again and not cower.

Bill O'Rights · 02-18-2004, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
But on the serious side, the last time a democrat 'trashed' a republican in a national debate was on West Wing.

You really hate that show...dontcha?

Superbelt · 02-18-2004, 01:20 PM

About as much as he hated 1993 - 2000

There's gonna be a big mess to clean up when a couple thousand Limbaugh-ites heads explode when Bush loses at the end of the year.

I will sorely miss Ustwo. I will take on an FDR avatar in memorial.

[Remember our money bet Ustwo?]

Bill O'Rights · 02-18-2004, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
There's gonna be a big mess to clean up when a couple thousand Limbaugh-ites heads explode when Bush loses at the end of the year.

Huh? Why? Did something happen to the Supreme Court?

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
[Remember our money bet Ustwo?]

Oh, and proceeds gained from betting within the TFB boards...get donated to the boards.

Strange Famous · 02-18-2004, 01:57 PM

Thats a shame, he looked like the best candiate to me

james t kirk · 02-18-2004, 02:04 PM

I seem to remember Benson destroying Dan Quale in a vice presidential debate 12 years ago after Dan Quale compared himself to JFK.

Something like....

"I knew Jack Kennedy, I worked with Jack Kennedy, You sir are no Jack Kennedy"

Right there and then, Quale was destroyed and forever pegged as a no-mind.

mystmarimatt · 02-18-2004, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
I will take on an FDR avatar in memorial.

Damn! stole my idea!

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
I'm sad to see him go, but I am excited for what he has done to the party and for what he is setting himself up to do for it in the next several years.

Yeah, he gave hope to a lot of Democrats in a time when the party seemed (and at times still seems) a little lost. I am sad that he will not be running.

mystmarimatt crawls into a corner and starts to bawl

Sparhawk · 02-19-2004, 09:40 AM

I loved this editorial by Maura Keefe, hope the other Dean fans do as well:

Quote:

"I am so excited about this campaign, I can barely sleep at night." That's what a member of Congress said to me early last summer about the Dean for America campaign. It seemed an incredible thing for a veteran politician to say, but I understood, because I felt the same way. We all did.

For some, it was the bells and whistles of the "Sleepless Summer Tour" or the lure of Internet fundraising that hooked them on Dean for America. For me, it was Howard Dean's clear message to Democrats: Stand for something or perish. Finally someone was speaking up against the war with Iraq, questioning the Patriot Act, exposing the hypocrisy of the No Child Left Behind Act and the Bush tax cuts. Dean had political courage at a time when Democrats desperately needed it, and people all across the country were responding.

In my home state of New Hampshire, Dean seemed unstoppable. I'd worked on dozens of campaigns, many in New Hampshire, and had never seen anything like the energy and excitement he generated. I'll always remember the sight that greeted me when I drove over the crest of a hill in the middle of the woods in Walpole, N.H., last summer. It was a full six months before the primary, yet the scene looked like a Grateful Dead show -- fields were turned into parking lots as 1,500 people with backpacks and baby strollers walked up a dirt road toward a hilltop home to hear former governor Dean speak. Dean didn't disappoint the pilgrims that day. He rarely did.

Along the way, Dean for America added a new word to campaign lexicon -- "blog": It's a noun and a verb! The Dean Weblog, or Blog, helped inspire legions of young devotees. More than once I was reduced to tears when reading blog posts, as person after person told stories of how Howard Dean had inspired them to become involved in politics for the first time. One story sticks with me -- that of a dirt-poor college student who wanted to donate to Dean's campaign so badly that he sold his bicycle.

In New Hampshire unsung organizers and volunteers (led by the incomparable Karen Hicks) were not satisfied merely to identify voters for Dean; they worked to build sustainable networks of activists that could elect Democrats at the local level. Already their efforts are paying dividends:

A 69-year-old Dean volunteer from Manchester is running for state representative, and she and other recovering Deaniacs are meeting this week to put together a campaign plan. In Bedford, some Dean volunteers have decided to run for office together. In Nashua, a Dean volunteer who lives in public housing has used her new connections with neighbors to form a tenants association to better communicate with the housing authority.

Pundits and journalists have been writing Dean's political obituary since his infamous concession speech in Iowa. The media consensus may be that the legacy of Dean for America is millions of wasted dollars, candidate misstatements and campaign missteps. Those are all fair criticisms.

But there's another legacy of Dean for America. It's personified in that elected official who rediscovered his passion for politics; the college student who sold his bike for democracy; young political organizers who learned that building community is more important than any single election; and empowered citizens across America who are taking back their neighborhoods, their towns, their cities and, yes, their country.

Working for Dean for America was not only one of the best political experiences of my life -- it was one of the best experiences of my life, period. That's what has made the past few weeks so unbearable. What was once an optimistic, empowering and energizing campaign became something quite different.

Dean for America was never about one man; it was always about what one man's leadership sparked in so many others, and about what they in turn could accomplish. But how Dean for America is remembered is up to one man. Throughout this campaign Dean has told countless Americans: "You have the power." He spoke those words again yesterday as he bowed out of the presidential race. In doing so, he made the right decision and took the first steps toward preserving the true legacy of the hundreds of thousands of people who came together across kitchen tables and computer screens to become Dean for America.

mml · 02-19-2004, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
Kerry and Edwards are NOT running Dean 2.0 campaigns. Kerry is running a pretty traditional campaign, and Edwards is an insurgent, though he isn't using the internet like Dean did. Dean's campaign was defined by its anti-war in Iraq message. Kerry and Edwards aren't pushing that point as hard as Dean did.

Clearly, there are great differences between all three campaigns, but it is also just as clear that each of these candidates "adopted" (stole) ideas and themes from Governor Dean. No one was directly taking on President Bush and no one had any fire before Dean hit the scene. Dean was not my choice, but much of his "fervor" (anger) and many of his ideas have helped to reinvigorate the Democratic party. I think that history will show that he played an important role in the election of 2004.

Superbelt · 02-19-2004, 10:55 AM

Thanks for that.
For both the acknowledgement to Dean and for backing up the meat of my earlier statement.

It's especially good coming from someone with Kerry's name as their avatar.

Scipio · 02-19-2004, 12:29 PM

Dean injected dynamics into the race that might not have been there otherwise, but I'm not going to let anyone argue that Kerry and Edwards wouldn't take Bush head-on when his approval ratings have dropped into the 40s.

Dean didn't invent Bush bashing.

Second, you'd be crazy to run a Dean 2.0 campaign. When Dean's campaign failed so spectacularly in Iowa and New Hampshire, he fired the architect of Dean 1.0, Joe Trippi, and hired a Washington insider, ex-Gore lobbyist to run his campaign.

What did Dean do? He defined his campaign with firey rhetoric, opposition to the Iraq war, and the incorporation (or perhaps revitaliaztion) of a new (or perhaps old) constituency into the Democratic party. Whatever the case, Kerry hasn't adopted any of these three pillars. Sure, part of his success might be attributed to stepped up criticism of Bush, but it hardly defines his message. Kerry supported the threat of force in Iraq, but thought it was carried out too soon, and moreover he thinks that the execution has been poor. Dean opposed every aspect of it. Though Kerry benefitted from Dean voters deserting their candidate, his campaign hasn't become like Dean's campaign.

Same goes for Edwards. He has a moralist populist message, a moderate position on the war, and a more traditional campaign.

So to recap: Dean 1.0 didn't work. Therefore no one would run a Dean 2.0 campaign. All you need to do is look at what Kerry and Edwards are doing. Even if Dean's issues have to some extent been picked up by Edwards and Kerry, it's because voters want to hear about them.

02-19-2004, 07:11 PM

My husband immediately saw Kerry accelerating. Immediately I saw Dean sinking fast. We were both right.

123dsa · 02-20-2004, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
Actually the last time a democrat trashed a republican was yesterday when Ben Chandler beat Kerr in the Kentucky district 6 US congress special election race.

Results
Chandler (D): 54.6
Kerr (R): 43.6
Chandler carried 14 of 16 counties.
http://www.wkyt.com/Global/link.asp?...0&nav=4CAKKt3i
Kerr ran on her support of Bush and his policies. She was soundly TRASHED

Is this a signal of the nations mood?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in600622.shtml

This is a VERY conservative region where a democrat has not held that seat in over 50 years. That's a long time for a congress-seat.

Woo Hoo Chandler!

If you followed KY politics closely you would also know that Chandler won the House seat only after being destroyed by Ernie Fletcher for the govenors race. As for debates, there were not any in the house race, just a bunch of stupid comercials from the Kerr campaign. The seat will be up again in Nov. and State rep Tom Buford of Nicholasville will win. You heard it here first.

LSD

Superbelt · 02-20-2004, 07:52 AM

I am well aware of Fletcher winning.
But that was at a time when Bush was much more popular, it was towards the height of the Iraq War's popularity.

I will be very interested in seeing how Chandler's campaign turns out. Incumbency is almost impossibly to beat in House races.

I will also be following St. Senator Jeffords reelection campaign in Vermont closely.

vapusforever · 02-23-2004, 10:44 PM

Its a amazing how volatile America's support for a potential president is. A few months back Dean was the major Democrat front runner, and then after one loss, the game is over. I guess his reaction to that one loss is what really lost him the election.

02-18-2004, 11:15 AM	#1 (permalink)
123dsa Crazy Location: KY	Dean Done http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040218_677.html WASHINGTON Feb. 18 — Howard Dean will end his campaign for the presidential nomination and oversee a new effort to keep his issues alive and his supporters organized on behalf of Democratic causes, two party officials said Wednesday. Dean was to announce his plans at a news conference Wednesday afternoon, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity. __________________________________________________ And then there were 2. Did anybody actually believe that he was going to stay in the race? I don't think we'll see him for a bit. At any rate I saw that he plans to keep his name on the ballot. LSD

02-18-2004, 11:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	*Pours one out for his dead homie __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

02-18-2004, 11:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Assassinated by a press core who didn't think he could beat Bush. I'd almost feel for him, if he wasn't so wrong on so many issues. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

02-18-2004, 12:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
Scipio Mencken Location: College	Kerry and Edwards are NOT running Dean 2.0 campaigns. Kerry is running a pretty traditional campaign, and Edwards is an insurgent, though he isn't using the internet like Dean did. Dean's campaign was defined by its anti-war in Iraq message. Kerry and Edwards aren't pushing that point as hard as Dean did. __________________ "Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."

02-18-2004, 12:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	I disagree. Campaigns have their differing points, but the main pack has been eerily similar in their positions. Especially the Iraq war. Dean forced that issue. Dean also forced the energy into the campaign and he forced a backbone back into the democrats making it ok and necessary for a candidate to start attacking Bush's policies and telling america how much we need a change. None of that would be on the table without Dean. We would be stuck with a heartless spineless Lieberman type who runs on the campaign of... Um... Vote for me because I agree with everything Bush does. I honestly believe, without Howard having done what he did, neither Kerry nor Edwards would be in such a favorable position to win the Presidency. I think Dean changed them both. And did it for the better so they feel the ability to stand up for what they really believe in again and not cower. Last edited by Superbelt; 02-18-2004 at 12:49 PM..

02-18-2004, 11:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Dean's chances of being President are dead, but his campaign won the primary. Both Kerry and Edwards are running Dean 2.0 campaigns. I'm sad to see him go, but I am excited for what he has done to the party and for what he is setting himself up to do for it in the next several years. Or, even the small possibility of being Edwards running mate and watching him trash Cheney in the Presidential debates.

02-18-2004, 12:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Actually the last time a democrat trashed a republican was yesterday when Ben Chandler beat Kerr in the Kentucky district 6 US congress special election race. Results Chandler (D): 54.6 Kerr (R): 43.6 Chandler carried 14 of 16 counties. http://www.wkyt.com/Global/link.asp?...0&nav=4CAKKt3i Kerr ran on her support of Bush and his policies. She was soundly TRASHED Is this a signal of the nations mood? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in600622.shtml This is a VERY conservative region where a democrat has not held that seat in over 50 years. That's a long time for a congress-seat. Woo Hoo Chandler!

02-18-2004, 01:20 PM	#12 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	About as much as he hated 1993 - 2000 There's gonna be a big mess to clean up when a couple thousand Limbaugh-ites heads explode when Bush loses at the end of the year. I will sorely miss Ustwo. I will take on an FDR avatar in memorial. [Remember our money bet Ustwo?] Last edited by Bill O'Rights; 02-18-2004 at 01:37 PM..

02-18-2004, 01:57 PM	#14 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Thats a shame, he looked like the best candiate to me __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

02-18-2004, 02:04 PM	#15 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	I seem to remember Benson destroying Dan Quale in a vice presidential debate 12 years ago after Dan Quale compared himself to JFK. Something like.... "I knew Jack Kennedy, I worked with Jack Kennedy, You sir are no Jack Kennedy" Right there and then, Quale was destroyed and forever pegged as a no-mind.

02-19-2004, 10:55 AM	#19 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Thanks for that. For both the acknowledgement to Dean and for backing up the meat of my earlier statement. It's especially good coming from someone with Kerry's name as their avatar.

02-19-2004, 12:29 PM	#20 (permalink)
Scipio Mencken Location: College	Dean injected dynamics into the race that might not have been there otherwise, but I'm not going to let anyone argue that Kerry and Edwards wouldn't take Bush head-on when his approval ratings have dropped into the 40s. Dean didn't invent Bush bashing. Second, you'd be crazy to run a Dean 2.0 campaign. When Dean's campaign failed so spectacularly in Iowa and New Hampshire, he fired the architect of Dean 1.0, Joe Trippi, and hired a Washington insider, ex-Gore lobbyist to run his campaign. What did Dean do? He defined his campaign with firey rhetoric, opposition to the Iraq war, and the incorporation (or perhaps revitaliaztion) of a new (or perhaps old) constituency into the Democratic party. Whatever the case, Kerry hasn't adopted any of these three pillars. Sure, part of his success might be attributed to stepped up criticism of Bush, but it hardly defines his message. Kerry supported the threat of force in Iraq, but thought it was carried out too soon, and moreover he thinks that the execution has been poor. Dean opposed every aspect of it. Though Kerry benefitted from Dean voters deserting their candidate, his campaign hasn't become like Dean's campaign. Same goes for Edwards. He has a moralist populist message, a moderate position on the war, and a more traditional campaign. So to recap: Dean 1.0 didn't work. Therefore no one would run a Dean 2.0 campaign. All you need to do is look at what Kerry and Edwards are doing. Even if Dean's issues have to some extent been picked up by Edwards and Kerry, it's because voters want to hear about them. __________________ "Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."

02-19-2004, 07:11 PM	#21 (permalink)
:::OshnSoul::: Guest	My husband immediately saw Kerry accelerating. Immediately I saw Dean sinking fast. We were both right.

02-20-2004, 07:52 AM	#23 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	I am well aware of Fletcher winning. But that was at a time when Bush was much more popular, it was towards the height of the Iraq War's popularity. I will be very interested in seeing how Chandler's campaign turns out. Incumbency is almost impossibly to beat in House races. I will also be following St. Senator Jeffords reelection campaign in Vermont closely.

02-23-2004, 10:44 PM	#24 (permalink)
vapusforever Tilted Location: Your Imagination	Its a amazing how volatile America's support for a potential president is. A few months back Dean was the major Democrat front runner, and then after one loss, the game is over. I guess his reaction to that one loss is what really lost him the election.