Hillary in Baghdad - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

HarmlessRabbit · 11-30-2003, 02:49 PM

How awesome is this?
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20031129_401.html
http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/12144.htm

Hillary in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq,

Hillary flies into Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq with a mission of furthering the UN humanitarian mission. She tours the war zones, and has dinner with the troops in Afghanistan!

Gotta love the rocks on this gal!

reconmike · 11-30-2003, 03:08 PM

Sorry but Hellary wasnt in Baghdad, she was in Kirkuk, a very pro US territory.

And from the footage I have seen, the troops werent very happy to see her.
Kinda like Hanoi Jane in North Veitnam.

Ustwo · 11-30-2003, 03:17 PM

And she took the time to question US policy to the troops. How sweet of her.

Sorry Harmless, she was trumped

rgr22j · 11-30-2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
And she took the time to question US policy to the troops. How sweet of her.

Sorry Harmless, she was trumped :D

Agreed. As they say, trumped, "big time."

However, while in general I agree with the "Hellary" assessment, I respect the fact that she at least took the time to go there, unlike the most of the rest of the US Government, either pro- or anti-liberation.

-- Alvin

EDIT: Grammar edits. Need to preview more often!

HarmlessRabbit · 11-30-2003, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reconmike
Sorry but Hellary wasnt in Baghdad, she was in Kirkuk, a very pro US territory.

I know, I was copying your title from your Bush post.

Can't you have respect for the woman, flying into a war zone and having dinner with the Afghanistan troops?

What a patriot!

Phaenx · 11-30-2003, 04:56 PM

Surprise the troops and say "Haha, you're all suckers, bye."

Great gal, we love her a lot.

rogue49 · 11-30-2003, 09:58 PM

I agree with rgr22j
You've got to give her credit for trying & going,
which more than most of the others willing to do.

Again, I would appreciate it if our Representatives
would "represent"

JamesS · 11-30-2003, 10:49 PM

Yes, she was trumped - deliberately so, I'd day. It's nice that Bush visited and all, no dispute there. But why does it take a prominant democrat taking a trip to spur him to action?

I feel so sorry for our troops over there right now. Especially the reserves and guard - the regular enlistees signed up for this, but guardsmen were never supposed to be used in this manner.

I hope whoever wins in 2004, someone comes up with a coherent plan to re-rail this train.

Ustwo · 11-30-2003, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JamesS
Yes, she was trumped - deliberately so, I'd day. It's nice that Bush visited and all, no dispute there. But why does it take a prominant democrat taking a trip to spur him to action?

I feel so sorry for our troops over there right now. Especially the reserves and guard - the regular enlistees signed up for this, but guardsmen were never supposed to be used in this manner.

I hope whoever wins in 2004, someone comes up with a coherent plan to re-rail this train.

I'd say he would have gone reguardless, and the fact that he overshadowed Hill's trip makes it only that much better.

As for the national guard, this IS what they signed up for. Maybe a lot of them never expected it, but anyone who was in the national guard and never expected the possiblity of war and being called to active duty was obviously just in it for the extra check.

onetime2 · 12-01-2003, 05:31 AM

Good for her. I was happy to hear some of her comments. I guess I missed the ones where she questioned the policy of them being there.

The only thing negative I'll say about it is that her people missed the boat on making her look like she was in a combat zone in some of the clips I saw from Afghanistan. Standing there with bright red lips and heavy make up next to some kid faced soldiers in their dusty utilities didn't look right. The PR people could have made it look better.

wwcd101 · 12-01-2003, 06:35 AM

The Pres flying in I get. But, I question the real value of these congressional fly ins.

They have to cost a bundle and to see what??? There is no way you can be there a day or two and "understand" the situation any better. It's all about PR and we get to foot the bill.

Thanks for listening.

Superbelt · 12-01-2003, 06:47 AM

Bush wouldn't have gone regardless
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...nm/bush_iraq_dc

Because Bush is more than willing to challenge the Iraqi guerrillas attacking our troops to "bring it on," as long as his scared ass is at least six or eight time zones away from the line of fire.
He came into the Iraqi airport, spent several hours with 600 troops under heavy protection then got his ass out of there.

Sparhawk · 12-01-2003, 07:51 AM

Talking about courage and balls with presidents is really irrelevant in my opinion. Like it or not, he's the most important person in the republic, and I don't want him put in a situation that could make Dick Cheney the 44th president of the United States. *shudder*

Superbelt · 12-01-2003, 07:54 AM

I agree, mostly. But I resent the way the media and some people are protraying this as some heroic feat, and make it seem like he actually possesses a pair.

HarmlessRabbit · 12-01-2003, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wwcd101
The Pres flying in I get. But, I question the real value of these congressional fly ins.

They have to cost a bundle and to see what??? There is no way you can be there a day or two and "understand" the situation any better. It's all about PR and we get to foot the bill.

Thanks for listening.

That's an odd opinion. Hillary and the other senator spent several days visiting Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Hillary met with leaders in each country, including the leader of Afghanistan, and was there to push a specific political agenda (more U.N. involvement in the region).

Bush flew in for a few hours, got some pictures taken of himself carrying around a turkey, and left.

You're entitled to your own opinion, but frankly I can't see how you can see Bush's trip as useful and Hillary's trip as wasteful.

Superbelt · 12-01-2003, 08:01 AM

Yes, HarmlessRabbit, me too.

Especially since Hillary is part of the senate armed services committee
http://www.senate.gov/~armed_services/members.htm

and as such has an actual role in the decision making for any military efforts.

Where is Bush's value, other than symbolic, over Clinton's?

Phaenx · 12-01-2003, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
Bush wouldn't have gone regardless
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...nm/bush_iraq_dc

Because Bush is more than willing to challenge the Iraqi guerrillas attacking our troops to "bring it on," as long as his scared ass is at least six or eight time zones away from the line of fire.
He came into the Iraqi airport, spent several hours with 600 troops under heavy protection then got his ass out of there.

I'm sure he could probably pick up an m-16 and kill all the bad guys in a day, but I think after Reagan defeated that cyborg army in '85 they stopped using the President to physically win our battles.

Superbelt · 12-01-2003, 09:12 AM

He could have done more like Clinton did in Kosovo.

....Unless of course, he is willing to admit that "The Media's" treatment of Iraq being a dangerous warzone is actually correct. That they aren't just focusing on the bad things, thats just all there is to report over there.

Ustwo · 12-01-2003, 09:47 AM

I have a feeling we are going to get some good stories about the Hilary trip in the near future. Some radio talk shows are talking about how they had to ask troops people to eat with Hilary since they didn't want to on their own. Based on her and her husbands disdain for the military I find it believable, and it will be most amusing if its true.

Gore and the Dem machine didn't try to get the military ballots in Florida invalidated because the military votes for Democrats.

onetime2 · 12-01-2003, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit
That's an odd opinion. Hillary and the other senator spent several days visiting Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Hillary met with leaders in each country, including the leader of Afghanistan, and was there to push a specific political agenda (more U.N. involvement in the region).

Bush flew in for a few hours, got some pictures taken of himself carrying around a turkey, and left.

You're entitled to your own opinion, but frankly I can't see how you can see Bush's trip as useful and Hillary's trip as wasteful.

Well, except for the fact that Bush also met with members of the Iraqi governing council while there. Certainly that's a bit more than carrying around a turkey and getting pictures taken.

Superbelt · 12-01-2003, 11:08 AM

He met with 4 of them.

Which is a minority of the full 12 member council.

Superbelt · 12-01-2003, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
I have a feeling we are going to get some good stories about the Hilary trip in the near future. Some radio talk shows are talking about how they had to ask troops people to eat with Hilary since they didn't want to on their own. Based on her and her husbands disdain for the military I find it believable, and it will be most amusing if its true.

Gore and the Dem machine didn't try to get the military ballots in Florida invalidated because the military votes for Democrats.

This is Clinton in Kosovo
Can you feel....

The hate, the anger?

The military vote doesn't go to democrats because only officers vote in any significant numbers. The average GI doesn't.

But I'm sure the average national guardsman (and any other soldier) is so against Hillary and her efforts to get them out of Iraq where they are now expecting to be stationed for at least a year.

Conclamo Ludus · 12-01-2003, 12:05 PM

I think it is entirely appropriate for both our president and Hillary as a US senator to have visited Iraq. More of our leaders should take the time to see what our military is doing. I don't see anything wrong with Hillary showing up. I commend them both for it. It shows some respect, and if it isn't truly out of respect, then it will blow up in their faces.

onetime2 · 12-01-2003, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
He met with 4 of them.

Which is a minority of the full 12 member council.

Umm yeah, it's still not just holding a turkey and taking pictures.

Ustwo · 12-01-2003, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
This is Clinton in Kosovo
Can you feel....

The hate, the anger?

Quote:

If there is one so-called government organization that won't miss Bill Clinton or, presumably, Vice President Al Gore, when the current administration packs up and leaves next January, it will be the U.S. military.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=15946

Quote:

The Clinton administration had virtually no respect for the military, with attitudes shaped by ignorance of the armed forces or by ideological hostility to the military, Patterson said.
Patterson related to INA Today an account of one Clinton staff member expressing surprise when she learned that many in the military have college degrees.
Morale plunged in the military under Clinton, Patterson said, as the administration's disregard for the military became increasingly apparent.

http://www.inatoday.com/defenserisk.htm

Quote:

The war with Yugoslavia has brought the question of our military preparedness the forefront. President Clinton, who was once quoted as saying "I loathe the military," has seriously eroded our military capabilities. Clinton avoided marching off to Vietnam by dodging the draft, although he did march on the U.S. Embassy in Moscow to protest against America. When he first assumed the Presidency, his counterculture staff would not permit senior military officers to wear their uniforms at the White House. Such has been his attitude toward our armed forces.

http://www.austinreview.com/articles/31.html

And of course ....

Quote:

The November 14, 1997 Arizona Republic features an interesting article written by Wall Street Journal writer Thomas E. Ricks. The title of his piece is "Military is becoming more conservative, political." In it, Mr. Ricks makes his case by revealing that the ratio of conservatives to liberals in the military has grown from 4-1 in 1976 to 23-1 now. He says only 3% of senior military officers say they are even "somewhat liberal," compared with 27% for civilian elites.

http://www.spectacle.org/198/wilson.html

Quote:

Maj. Gen. Harold Campbell was compelled to retire after referring, no doubt affectionately, to the "gay-loving," "womanizing," "draft-dodging" and "pot-smoking" President in a speech at an Air Force banquet. Other officers received reprimands for characterizing their Commander-in-Chief as a "lying draft dodger," a "moral coward," and an "adulterous liar" in letters to their local newspapers.
It is perhaps worth noting in passing that the truthfulness of an accusation is not considered a viable defense to an Article 88 court martial.

I love the last line of that quote

I find it amusing that you would think the military had ANY respect for Clinton.

Superbelt · 12-01-2003, 01:27 PM

I would love to know how Clinton was able to force those soldiers to smile the way they are. The seem to ME to genuinely be smiling, and enjoying his company.... go figure.

The quote "I loathe the military" was taken out of context. The context was he loathed the military establishment that was sending young men to a war that he realized as unnecessary and immoral.

Quote:

The November 14, 1997 Arizona Republic features an interesting article written by Wall Street Journal writer Thomas E. Ricks. The title of his piece is "Military is becoming more conservative, political." In it, Mr. Ricks makes his case by revealing that the ratio of conservatives to liberals in the military has grown from 4-1 in 1976 to 23-1 now. He says only 3% of senior military officers say they are even "somewhat liberal," compared with 27% for civilian elites.

You just reiterate what I already said. Officers are Republicans, if any party at all. That piece is a survey of officers

What about soldiers?

The morale right now is at an all time low. With the engagement of a useless occupation plus learning that their benefits are being cut across the board.
There isn't much love for Bush in the rank and file.

Generally there was alot of distrust for Clinton during his term, but many soldiers are realizing now just how good they had it under him as opposed to Bush.

I can also find quotes from recently retired Gen. Zinni in which he lambastes Bush, not for stupid reasons like "gay-loving" and "pot-smoking" (...cokehead bush...)
But for the way that Bush has mishandled the military.
That whole thing from Campbell, nothing but character smears. Nothing in there that actually attacks his merits.

Ustwo · 12-01-2003, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
I would love to know how Clinton was able to force those soldiers to smile the way they are. The seem to ME to genuinely be smiling, and enjoying his company.... go figure.

Maybe he told them a dirty joke.

Phaenx · 12-01-2003, 01:38 PM

23-1 conservative-liberal ratio for the military in general and 3% of officers say they're "somewhat liberal" I read, there's two different parts there, so I guess the soldiers would be part of the 23-1 ratio.

Sparhawk · 12-01-2003, 01:38 PM

I'm getting a weird feeling of deja vu with this thread... Too bad searching is disabled, or I'd try and figure out why...

Superbelt · 12-01-2003, 01:40 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2245632.stm

Quote:

Zinni: Iraq war "unwise"

The Bush administration's special Mideast envoy, retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, denounced the drive to war in Iraq last Saturday during an appearance in Florida. He did so with certainty and a touch of sardonic wit. Somehow, this front-page story hasn't yet penetrated the consciousness of the nation's great newspaper editors. But Zinni's speech at the Economic Club in Tallahassee (just down the street from Jeb's office) powerfully reaffirms the quiet dissent of Colin Powell, who appointed him. His tough remarks about the administration he is currently serving may also suggest that the Mideast envoy feels deep frustration over White House mishandling of Israeli-Palestinian issues. In short, he may be ready to quit.

Zinni made a direct reference to the secretary of state, along with retired generals Schwarzkopf and Scowcroft, and derided the armchair hawks who are promoting "pre-emptive" military action: "It's pretty interesting that all the generals see it the same way, and all the others who have never fired a shot and are hot to go to war see it another way." If I were Dick Cheney or Richard Perle or Paul Wolfowitz, I might have to take that personally.

Zinni isn't just any general, of course. In addition to his Marine résumé, he's also the former chief of the Army's Central Command, with responsibility for the Mideast region. The quotes in the Tampa Trib reflect a remarkably sensible outlook, but one that is wholly at odds with the president's "axis of evil" mind-set. According to the Trib reporter, he indicated that "more important than Iraq right now are 'the opportunities that exist for the United States to encourage a peaceful transition in Iran where young people are increasingly challenging the power of the Islamic theocracy.'"
[7:09 a.m. PDT, Aug. 27, 2002]

http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20030404/1025897.asp

Quote:

"This is in fact the wrong war at the wrong time," the retired Marine general said Thursday night at Canisius College. Zinni was head of Central Command until Gen. Tommy Franks took over nearly three years ago.

We have to look for solutions that can come about without military action," Zinni said during the William H. Fitzpatrick Lecture at Canisius. "We're applying military action to places where it isn't necessary. I don't think the American people will stand for a series of wars like this."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...&notFound=true

Quote:

In an impassioned speech to several hundred Marine and Navy officers and others, [retired Marine Gen. Anthony C.] Zinni invoked the U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War in the 1960s and '70s. "My contemporaries, our feelings and sensitivities were forged on the battlefields of Vietnam, where we heard the garbage and the lies, and we saw the sacrifice," said Zinni, who was severely wounded while serving as an infantry officer in that conflict. "I ask you, is it happening again?"

Underscoring how much his views have changed since 2000 [when he endorsed Bush], he implied that the Bush administration is now damaging the U.S. military in the way that Bush and Vice President Cheney during that campaign charged that the Clinton administration had done. "We can't go on breaking our military and doing things like we're doing now," he said.

_______
Well, there ya go. Theres some from Zinni, a much more important man than Campbell ever was.

onetime2 · 12-02-2003, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
I would love to know how Clinton was able to force those soldiers to smile the way they are. The seem to ME to genuinely be smiling, and enjoying his company.... go figure.

Not to be pejorative but smiling doesn't mean they like him. People smile in pictures, especially when they are likely to end up in the newspaper or get to send copies to their families and friends.

I'm not saying that those particular soldiers did or didn't like him. Just that it's pointless to assume either way about those individuals.

Ustwo · 12-02-2003, 10:24 AM

As predicted, the first shot is fired,

Its from NewsMax which should also be predictable

Quote:

Tuesday, Dec. 2, 2003 12:44 a.m. EST
Bagram GI: Troops Waited While Hillary Chowed Down

U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton forced U.S. troops stationed at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan to wait for their Thanksgiving dinner last Thursday while she and her entourage arrived late, then cut in line and were served first.

A soldier who witnessed the scene tells NewsMax:

"Thanksgiving Dinner started at 3 p.m. that day, so the line was forming around 2:30 p.m. She didn't show up until around 3:30 p.m.

"Once she got there," our source maintains, "Clinton and her entourage bumped everyone in line, forcing them to wait almost an extra hour."

The brass at Bagram apparently had a hard time rounding up New Yorkers who wanted to have dinner with Clinton, D-N.Y. Only six GIs responded to an e-mail sent out last week that stated, "Looking for military members from New York and Rhode Island interested in meeting their Senator/Congressman."

People magazine was on hand to cover the event and wanted to interview the troops for reaction to Clinton's visit.

"But they were getting declined left and right," our source said. "People were actually telling the reporters, 'You don't want to print what I think about her and her visit.'"

After Clinton and her entourage departed, the only topics GIs wanted to talk about were "how great the food was and how fantastic they thought George Bush's visit to Iraq was."

Now it is from Newsmax so I'm sure some of you will discredit it right there, but for some reason I doubt this will be the only source in the near future.

Superbelt · 12-02-2003, 11:35 AM

Yes I do discredit Newsmax right there. They make it no secret to be a newspaper version of Ann Coulter whose only purpose is to try and destry Democrats and liberals(ism)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in585901.shtml
I wonder, did Hillary force 50 soldiers to eat Thanksgiving dinner with her? That is a far cry from Newsmax's account that they couldn't find any.

http://www.newsday.com/news/printedi...=ny-news-print

Quote:

Joe Householder, Clinton's press secretary, said the trip was in the planning for weeks. Reed's office declined to return repeated calls. He and Clinton reached out to other committee members but found no others willing to make the trip, Senate aides said.

"I'm aware that those are the two committee members traveling to Iraq over Thanksgiving," Armed Services spokesman John Ullyott said. "That is my understanding that they're the only two members of the committee going."

That's about the most "positive" article I could find on her visit.
There isn't much interest in a fluff piece on Hillary in the open market so most legitimate news organizations would understandably focus on important things.

This country has plenty of conservatives, plenty who are in our armed forces and in those there are some who don't like Hillary at all. So it wouldn't take long for a newsmax or townhall reporter to find a few of them and pass them off as representing the troops as a whole. That's newsmax and townhalls "MO"

goppers · 12-04-2003, 08:09 AM

So, if Hillary had held up a display turkey to pretend to serve the troops what would people be saying?

Superbelt · 12-04-2003, 08:13 AM

A turkey noone was allowed to eat while the troops get fed instead by steam trays.

I'd rather see Bush standing behind a steam tray with a hairnet and a ladel.
I could respect that.

Show some actual humility and respect for the troops.

Ustwo · 12-04-2003, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
A turkey noone was allowed to eat while the troops get fed instead by steam trays.

I'd rather see Bush standing behind a steam tray with a hairnet and a ladel.
I could respect that.

Show some actual humility and respect for the troops.

You mean like these pictures of him serving food?

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-124808c.html

Look, there he is in the chow line serving food.

Oh btw look at the tape of the visit, its obvious that turkey is a display and he only holds it for a few seconds with a 'joking' look on his face. The fact that everyone ran with THAT image is the news media's problem.

Superbelt · 12-04-2003, 08:50 AM

Thanks.

Ok, that was good. I didn't know he did that.

onetime2 · 12-04-2003, 10:45 AM

Alright on another topic, what is that guy doing at Bush's right elbow? Looks to me like he's getting a picture taken.

***Picturing the guy in ten years flipping through a scrap book..***
"And here I am with the back of the President's head."

11-30-2003, 02:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
HarmlessRabbit Junkie Location: San Jose, CA	Hillary in Baghdad How awesome is this? http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20031129_401.html http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/12144.htm Hillary in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Hillary flies into Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq with a mission of furthering the UN humanitarian mission. She tours the war zones, and has dinner with the troops in Afghanistan! Gotta love the rocks on this gal!

11-30-2003, 03:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	Sorry but Hellary wasnt in Baghdad, she was in Kirkuk, a very pro US territory. And from the footage I have seen, the troops werent very happy to see her. Kinda like Hanoi Jane in North Veitnam. __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

11-30-2003, 03:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	And she took the time to question US policy to the troops. How sweet of her. Sorry Harmless, she was trumped __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

11-30-2003, 04:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Surprise the troops and say "Haha, you're all suckers, bye." Great gal, we love her a lot. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

11-30-2003, 10:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
JamesS Crazy Location: Land of the Hanging Chad	Yes, she was trumped - deliberately so, I'd day. It's nice that Bush visited and all, no dispute there. But why does it take a prominant democrat taking a trip to spur him to action? I feel so sorry for our troops over there right now. Especially the reserves and guard - the regular enlistees signed up for this, but guardsmen were never supposed to be used in this manner. I hope whoever wins in 2004, someone comes up with a coherent plan to re-rail this train. __________________ The tragedy of life is what dies inside a man while he lives. -- Albert Schweitzer

11-30-2003, 09:58 PM	#7 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	I agree with rgr22j You've got to give her credit for trying & going, which more than most of the others willing to do. Again, I would appreciate it if our Representatives would "represent"

12-01-2003, 05:31 AM	#10 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	Good for her. I was happy to hear some of her comments. I guess I missed the ones where she questioned the policy of them being there. The only thing negative I'll say about it is that her people missed the boat on making her look like she was in a combat zone in some of the clips I saw from Afghanistan. Standing there with bright red lips and heavy make up next to some kid faced soldiers in their dusty utilities didn't look right. The PR people could have made it look better. __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

12-01-2003, 06:35 AM	#11 (permalink)
wwcd101 Insane	The Pres flying in I get. But, I question the real value of these congressional fly ins. They have to cost a bundle and to see what??? There is no way you can be there a day or two and "understand" the situation any better. It's all about PR and we get to foot the bill. Thanks for listening.

12-01-2003, 06:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Bush wouldn't have gone regardless http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...nm/bush_iraq_dc Because Bush is more than willing to challenge the Iraqi guerrillas attacking our troops to "bring it on," as long as his scared ass is at least six or eight time zones away from the line of fire. He came into the Iraqi airport, spent several hours with 600 troops under heavy protection then got his ass out of there.

12-01-2003, 07:51 AM	#13 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Talking about courage and balls with presidents is really irrelevant in my opinion. Like it or not, he's the most important person in the republic, and I don't want him put in a situation that could make Dick Cheney the 44th president of the United States. shudder __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

12-01-2003, 07:54 AM	#14 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	I agree, mostly. But I resent the way the media and some people are protraying this as some heroic feat, and make it seem like he actually possesses a pair.

12-01-2003, 08:01 AM	#16 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Yes, HarmlessRabbit, me too. Especially since Hillary is part of the senate armed services committee http://www.senate.gov/~armed_services/members.htm and as such has an actual role in the decision making for any military efforts. Where is Bush's value, other than symbolic, over Clinton's?

12-01-2003, 09:12 AM	#18 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	He could have done more like Clinton did in Kosovo. ....Unless of course, he is willing to admit that "The Media's" treatment of Iraq being a dangerous warzone is actually correct. That they aren't just focusing on the bad things, thats just all there is to report over there.

12-01-2003, 09:47 AM	#19 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I have a feeling we are going to get some good stories about the Hilary trip in the near future. Some radio talk shows are talking about how they had to ask troops people to eat with Hilary since they didn't want to on their own. Based on her and her husbands disdain for the military I find it believable, and it will be most amusing if its true. Gore and the Dem machine didn't try to get the military ballots in Florida invalidated because the military votes for Democrats. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-01-2003, 11:08 AM	#21 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	He met with 4 of them. Which is a minority of the full 12 member council.

12-01-2003, 12:05 PM	#23 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	I think it is entirely appropriate for both our president and Hillary as a US senator to have visited Iraq. More of our leaders should take the time to see what our military is doing. I don't see anything wrong with Hillary showing up. I commend them both for it. It shows some respect, and if it isn't truly out of respect, then it will blow up in their faces. __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

12-01-2003, 01:38 PM	#28 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	23-1 conservative-liberal ratio for the military in general and 3% of officers say they're "somewhat liberal" I read, there's two different parts there, so I guess the soldiers would be part of the 23-1 ratio. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

12-01-2003, 01:38 PM	#29 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	I'm getting a weird feeling of deja vu with this thread... Too bad searching is disabled, or I'd try and figure out why... __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

12-04-2003, 08:09 AM	#34 (permalink)
goppers Tilted	So, if Hillary had held up a display turkey to pretend to serve the troops what would people be saying?

12-04-2003, 08:13 AM	#35 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	A turkey noone was allowed to eat while the troops get fed instead by steam trays. I'd rather see Bush standing behind a steam tray with a hairnet and a ladel. I could respect that. Show some actual humility and respect for the troops.

12-04-2003, 08:50 AM	#37 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Thanks. Ok, that was good. I didn't know he did that.

12-04-2003, 10:45 AM	#38 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	Alright on another topic, what is that guy doing at Bush's right elbow? Looks to me like he's getting a picture taken. *Picturing the guy in ten years flipping through a scrap book..* "And here I am with the back of the President's head." __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant.