Hillary in Baghdad
 

How awesome is this?
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20031129_401.html
http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/12144.htm

Hillary in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq,

Hillary flies into Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq with a mission of furthering the UN humanitarian mission. She tours the war zones, and has dinner with the troops in Afghanistan!

Gotta love the rocks on this gal!

:)

Sorry but Hellary wasnt in Baghdad, she was in Kirkuk, a very pro US territory.

And from the footage I have seen, the troops werent very happy to see her.
Kinda like Hanoi Jane in North Veitnam.

And she took the time to question US policy to the troops. How sweet of her.

Sorry Harmless, she was trumped :D

Agreed. As they say, trumped, "big time."

However, while in general I agree with the "Hellary" assessment, I respect the fact that she at least took the time to go there, unlike the most of the rest of the US Government, either pro- or anti-liberation.

-- Alvin

EDIT: Grammar edits. Need to preview more often!

I know, I was copying your title from your Bush post. :)

Can't you have respect for the woman, flying into a war zone and having dinner with the Afghanistan troops?

What a patriot!

Surprise the troops and say "Haha, you're all suckers, bye."

Great gal, we love her a lot.

I agree with rgr22j
You've got to give her credit for trying & going,
which more than most of the others willing to do.

Again, I would appreciate it if our Representatives
would "represent"

Yes, she was trumped - deliberately so, I'd day. It's nice that Bush visited and all, no dispute there. But why does it take a prominant democrat taking a trip to spur him to action?

I feel so sorry for our troops over there right now. Especially the reserves and guard - the regular enlistees signed up for this, but guardsmen were never supposed to be used in this manner.

I hope whoever wins in 2004, someone comes up with a coherent plan to re-rail this train.

I'd say he would have gone reguardless, and the fact that he overshadowed Hill's trip makes it only that much better.

As for the national guard, this IS what they signed up for. Maybe a lot of them never expected it, but anyone who was in the national guard and never expected the possiblity of war and being called to active duty was obviously just in it for the extra check.

Good for her. I was happy to hear some of her comments. I guess I missed the ones where she questioned the policy of them being there.

The only thing negative I'll say about it is that her people missed the boat on making her look like she was in a combat zone in some of the clips I saw from Afghanistan. Standing there with bright red lips and heavy make up next to some kid faced soldiers in their dusty utilities didn't look right. The PR people could have made it look better.

The Pres flying in I get. But, I question the real value of these congressional fly ins.

They have to cost a bundle and to see what??? There is no way you can be there a day or two and "understand" the situation any better. It's all about PR and we get to foot the bill.

Thanks for listening.

Bush wouldn't have gone regardless
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...nm/bush_iraq_dc

Because Bush is more than willing to challenge the Iraqi guerrillas attacking our troops to "bring it on," as long as his scared ass is at least six or eight time zones away from the line of fire.
He came into the Iraqi airport, spent several hours with 600 troops under heavy protection then got his ass out of there.

Talking about courage and balls with presidents is really irrelevant in my opinion. Like it or not, he's the most important person in the republic, and I don't want him put in a situation that could make Dick Cheney the 44th president of the United States. *shudder*

I agree, mostly. But I resent the way the media and some people are protraying this as some heroic feat, and make it seem like he actually possesses a pair.

That's an odd opinion. Hillary and the other senator spent several days visiting Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Hillary met with leaders in each country, including the leader of Afghanistan, and was there to push a specific political agenda (more U.N. involvement in the region).

Bush flew in for a few hours, got some pictures taken of himself carrying around a turkey, and left.

You're entitled to your own opinion, but frankly I can't see how you can see Bush's trip as useful and Hillary's trip as wasteful.

Yes, HarmlessRabbit, me too.

Especially since Hillary is part of the senate armed services committee
http://www.senate.gov/~armed_services/members.htm

and as such has an actual role in the decision making for any military efforts.

Where is Bush's value, other than symbolic, over Clinton's?

I'm sure he could probably pick up an m-16 and kill all the bad guys in a day, but I think after Reagan defeated that cyborg army in '85 they stopped using the President to physically win our battles.

He could have done more like Clinton did in Kosovo.

....Unless of course, he is willing to admit that "The Media's" treatment of Iraq being a dangerous warzone is actually correct. That they aren't just focusing on the bad things, thats just all there is to report over there.

I have a feeling we are going to get some good stories about the Hilary trip in the near future. Some radio talk shows are talking about how they had to ask troops people to eat with Hilary since they didn't want to on their own. Based on her and her husbands disdain for the military I find it believable, and it will be most amusing if its true.

Gore and the Dem machine didn't try to get the military ballots in Florida invalidated because the military votes for Democrats. :)

Well, except for the fact that Bush also met with members of the Iraqi governing council while there. Certainly that's a bit more than carrying around a turkey and getting pictures taken.

He met with 4 of them.

Which is a minority of the full 12 member council.

This is Clinton in Kosovo
Can you feel....
http://www.oliverwillis.com/entries/...on_kosovo1.jpg
The hate, the anger?


The military vote doesn't go to democrats because only officers vote in any significant numbers. The average GI doesn't.

But I'm sure the average national guardsman (and any other soldier) is so against Hillary and her efforts to get them out of Iraq where they are now expecting to be stationed for at least a year.

I think it is entirely appropriate for both our president and Hillary as a US senator to have visited Iraq. More of our leaders should take the time to see what our military is doing. I don't see anything wrong with Hillary showing up. I commend them both for it. It shows some respect, and if it isn't truly out of respect, then it will blow up in their faces.

Umm yeah, it's still not just holding a turkey and taking pictures.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=15946

http://www.inatoday.com/defenserisk.htm

http://www.austinreview.com/articles/31.html

And of course ....
http://www.spectacle.org/198/wilson.html

I love the last line of that quote

I find it amusing that you would think the military had ANY respect for Clinton.

I would love to know how Clinton was able to force those soldiers to smile the way they are. The seem to ME to genuinely be smiling, and enjoying his company.... go figure.

The quote "I loathe the military" was taken out of context. The context was he loathed the military establishment that was sending young men to a war that he realized as unnecessary and immoral.

You just reiterate what I already said. Officers are Republicans, if any party at all. That piece is a survey of officers

What about soldiers? :)

The morale right now is at an all time low. With the engagement of a useless occupation plus learning that their benefits are being cut across the board.
There isn't much love for Bush in the rank and file.

Generally there was alot of distrust for Clinton during his term, but many soldiers are realizing now just how good they had it under him as opposed to Bush.

I can also find quotes from recently retired Gen. Zinni in which he lambastes Bush, not for stupid reasons like "gay-loving" and "pot-smoking" (...cokehead bush...)
But for the way that Bush has mishandled the military.
That whole thing from Campbell, nothing but character smears. Nothing in there that actually attacks his merits.

Maybe he told them a dirty joke.

23-1 conservative-liberal ratio for the military in general and 3% of officers say they're "somewhat liberal" I read, there's two different parts there, so I guess the soldiers would be part of the 23-1 ratio.

I'm getting a weird feeling of deja vu with this thread... Too bad searching is disabled, or I'd try and figure out why...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2245632.stm
http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20030404/1025897.asp

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...&notFound=true


_______
Well, there ya go. Theres some from Zinni, a much more important man than Campbell ever was.

Not to be pejorative but smiling doesn't mean they like him. People smile in pictures, especially when they are likely to end up in the newspaper or get to send copies to their families and friends.

I'm not saying that those particular soldiers did or didn't like him. Just that it's pointless to assume either way about those individuals.

As predicted, the first shot is fired,

Its from NewsMax which should also be predictable :)

Now it is from Newsmax so I'm sure some of you will discredit it right there, but for some reason I doubt this will be the only source in the near future.

Yes I do discredit Newsmax right there. They make it no secret to be a newspaper version of Ann Coulter whose only purpose is to try and destry Democrats and liberals(ism)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in585901.shtml
I wonder, did Hillary force 50 soldiers to eat Thanksgiving dinner with her? That is a far cry from Newsmax's account that they couldn't find any.

http://www.newsday.com/news/printedi...=ny-news-print

That's about the most "positive" article I could find on her visit.
There isn't much interest in a fluff piece on Hillary in the open market so most legitimate news organizations would understandably focus on important things.

This country has plenty of conservatives, plenty who are in our armed forces and in those there are some who don't like Hillary at all. So it wouldn't take long for a newsmax or townhall reporter to find a few of them and pass them off as representing the troops as a whole. That's newsmax and townhalls "MO"

So, if Hillary had held up a display turkey to pretend to serve the troops what would people be saying?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2001806870.jpg

A turkey noone was allowed to eat while the troops get fed instead by steam trays.

I'd rather see Bush standing behind a steam tray with a hairnet and a ladel.
I could respect that.

Show some actual humility and respect for the troops.

You mean like these pictures of him serving food?

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-124808c.html

Look, there he is in the chow line serving food.

Oh btw look at the tape of the visit, its obvious that turkey is a display and he only holds it for a few seconds with a 'joking' look on his face. The fact that everyone ran with THAT image is the news media's problem.

Thanks.

Ok, that was good. I didn't know he did that.

Alright on another topic, what is that guy doing at Bush's right elbow? Looks to me like he's getting a picture taken.

***Picturing the guy in ten years flipping through a scrap book..***
"And here I am with the back of the President's head."