Judge orders nuns to prison - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

sixate · 07-27-2003, 08:57 AM

LINKY

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Judge orders nuns to prison
41 months is top term in 2002 missile protest
By Jim Hughes
Denver Post Staff Writer

Saturday, July 26, 2003 - A federal judge on Friday sent three nuns to prison for an October 2002 act of civil disobedience at a Weld County missile silo - but for lesser sentences than government prosecutors had requested.

Though Judge Bob Blackburn disagreed with those who call the nuns heroes for breaking into the missile site to protest the U.S. nuclear arsenal, the sisters did not deserve sentences of six to eight years, Blackburn ruled.

Blackburn exercised his option to depart from federal sentencing guidelines and give the nuns shorter prison terms.

Blackburn sentenced Ardeth Platte, 67, to 41 months in prison; Carol Gilbert, 55, to 33 months; and Jackie Marie Hudson, 68, to 30 months.

He waived all fines but ordered that the nuns reimburse the government what it reportedly spent to fix a fence they damaged - $3,080.04.

"I was surprised," Walter Gerash, Hudson's attorney, said after Blackburn announced the sentences. "I was expecting a lot worse."

Gerash, who in court had described the sisters as "human angels," stopped short of calling the decision a victory for the three Dominican nuns.

"Well, they shouldn't even have been charged," he said.

A jury in April convicted the nuns of two felonies - obstructing national defense and damaging government property.

Blackburn gave the nuns shorter sentences than required by federal sentencing rules because they were not the types of criminals - saboteurs - for whom those laws are intended, he said.

The sentences were different for each nun because each has a different criminal history of similar acts of civil disobedience across the country dating to the 1980s.

The nuns, who spent approximately six months as inmates at the Clear Creek County Jail while awaiting trial, will receive credit for time served.

"Let me state the obvious," Blackburn told a courtroom packed with the nuns' supporters before delivering the sentences. "This is not a win-win, politically correct situation where everyone will leave this court feeling warm and fuzzy. Some will criticize (the sentences) for being too harsh, perhaps, and others, for being too lenient."

On Oct. 6, 2002, the three sisters cut a chain-link fence and sneaked onto a Minuteman III missile silo in northeastern Colorado, where they drew crosses with their blood on the silo lid and whacked railroad tracks with hammers.

Military riflemen arrived an hour after an alarm went off, training automatic weapons on the nuns, who were singing and praying. A military Humvee crashed through the fence when the nuns didn't obey an officer's orders, which they said they couldn't hear.

In court Friday, supporters of the nuns spilled over into an adjacent courtroom to listen to an audio feed of the proceedings. Even that courtroom was filled to overflowing, with some people sitting on the floor and others standing.

Blackburn ordered the nuns to turn themselves in to serve their sentences Aug. 25. But rather than sign a form indicating they would come back - an act of complicity with the system they did not want to make, lawyers said - they surrendered immediately.

"If we go now, we're gone," Hudson said jokingly to friends in the courtroom, saying she has had offers from people in Argentina willing to put her up.

"They were ready to go," said Scott Poland, Platte's lawyer, after marshals took the nuns into custody.

Though there was some grumbling - and isolated shouts of "Close the silos! Free the nuns!" - afterward, there were many more activists smiling than frowning at U.S. District Court on Friday afternoon.

Terry Greenberg of Nederland said she came to Denver on Friday prepared to form a new protest group - Jews to Free Nuns. But she left praising Blackburn's ruling.

"It made me feel hope," she said. "It gave me hope in the very hopeless world we live in these days."

In a telephone interview later in the day, U.S. Attorney John Suthers called Blackburn's sentences appropriate.

"I think the sentence that Judge Blackburn has imposed is eminently fair and reasonable," he said.

Not that everybody agreed. At one point, Blackburn chided the nuns for placing soldiers in a situation that, as far as they knew, could have been dangerous.

"The idea that (the soldiers) were out there putting themselves in harm's way with three nuns is just ludicrous," said Sue Carr-Novotny, who traveled from Breckenridge to show her support for the sisters.

The strongest criticism came in a news release issued late Friday afternoon by Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput.

"The three religious women sentenced today acted symbolically in their missile-silo protest and did no serious damage," the release read. "I'm disappointed that the sentences handed down this afternoon were not equally restrained and symbolic."

In the months since their arrest, the nuns have attained a status among activists approaching celebrity.

Since their conviction, they have spoken in various American cities, arguing for nuclear disarmament.

Meanwhile, protesters' criticisms of Blackburn and Suthers grew personal.

Blackburn in particular has been criticized for not allowing defense attorneys to argue in court that the nuns' actions were legal under international law.

Defense lawyers still complain about the judge's pretrial ruling on that defense.

"He can say it's not political, but it is," said Annabel Dwyer, a Michigan lawyer who served Platte in an advisory capacity. "He's saying nuclear weapons keep us safe. We're saying our nuclear weapons are as illegal as anyone else's."

Though Blackburn tried to keep politics out of his courtroom Friday, it was all over the courthouse steps throughout the day. More than 100 activists began the day by attending an 8 a.m. news conference and rally called by the nuns.

"I don't fear going to prison," Gilbert told them and a large number of reporters that included a crew from a German television network. "I don't fear loss of freedom to move about. I don't even fear death. The fear that fills me is not having lived hard enough, deep enough, and sweet enough with whatever gifts God has given me."

The nuns wore all black Friday. They told their supporters that they would not speak in court, as is the right of every criminal defendant sentenced at federal court.

In court, they spoke only when giving one-word answers to direct questions from Blackburn.

They had chosen their garb and their silence to convey their continued protest of war-making, they said Friday morning.

This judge is an asshole. If I would have broke in and done what these stupid broads did I be in jail for 20 years, but because they're (crazy) nuns they get a pass because they aren't typical criminals? I say they are typical criminals. They broke the law which makes them just as bad as everyone else and they should go to jail for a very long time. The pathetic thing is they think they'll be going to heaven..... What a joke. More criminals in heaven. If I am 100% wrong in my beliefs I'd much rather burn in hell for eternity than be in heaven with these pathetic fucking bitches.

I won't call what they did protesting. When you break laws you are no longer protesting. You now become a lowlife criminal.

Pennington · 07-27-2003, 09:43 AM

What they did was wrong, I won't argue that. But when sentencing, the judge has to look at their intent when they commited the crime. These nuns didn't intend to destroy the silos or cause their malfunction. They were making a statement, and while they didn't need to cause damage to make it, they shouldn't be punished as though they intended to make any serious damage. The judge was right, in my opinion, because the laws were designed to punish people who intended to do serious harm or disable property, not protesters making a political statement. The differance is somewhat like manslaughter and murder. While they may have the same outcome, the criminals had differant intents and it should be treated as such.

Stare At The Sun · 07-27-2003, 11:01 AM

They did deserve to be punished, but jeez, you gotta feel bad for em, but im glad they atleast got a lesser sentance. Sucks though, cause i didnt even here about this until now...so the original message was lost

reconmike · 07-27-2003, 02:02 PM

I was stationed at a "naval weapon station" for some time, and if there was an intruder in the "limited access area" the use of deadly force was authorized. These women are lucky to be alive.

It doesnt matter if they were nuns, dishwashers, or honor roll students they breeched a weapon silo which is against federal law,
so off to prison with them.

Phaenx · 07-27-2003, 02:29 PM

Break into a missle silo. Good idea.

The_Dude · 07-27-2003, 02:40 PM

somebody plz explain to me why they were charged with"October 2002 act of civil disobedience" and not trespassing or something worse??

zekezero · 07-27-2003, 04:02 PM

did the same thing to a school teacher last year

Gortexfogg · 07-27-2003, 09:48 PM

As nuns, I'd think they'd be a little more well behaved... would Jesus break into a missle silo to protest nuclear missiles? Maybe. Would he make a cross out of his own blood on the silo? Probably not.

41 months isn't an easy sentence, but I wouldn't feel guilty giving them a year or two more.

ctembreull · 07-27-2003, 09:58 PM

Surprisingly, I thought their sentence was light. I agree with what they were trying to say, but I disagree completely on how they chose to do it. If you do the crime, you do the time - person of the cloth or not.

That said, I have nothing but respect for those nuns for having the sheer, unadulterated balls (okay, pardon the phrase) to follow their conscience, damn the consequences.

Phaenx · 07-27-2003, 09:59 PM

Hm, what would Jesus do? Lets set them on fire and send them to hell instead of 6 years in prison.

seretogis · 07-27-2003, 10:07 PM

They deserve every moment that they spend in jail.

Anyone who feels bad for the nuns or think it was wrong to charge them, needs to re-evaluate exactly what "law" is, and who are exempt from it.

hobo · 07-27-2003, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
They deserve every moment that they spend in jail, however I would have forced them to pay for the fence as well.

Anyone who feels bad for the nuns or think it was wrong to charge them, needs to re-evaluate exactly what "law" is, and who are exempt from it.

It says that the judge ordered the nuns to reimburse the gov't for the repair cost for the fence. a bit over $3000.

HarmlessRabbit · 07-27-2003, 10:36 PM

Seems like justice worked just fine here. The nuns made a political statement, and it appears they wanted to go to jail. The judge gave them what appears to be a fair sentence for a pretty serious crime. Move along, nothing to see here.

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As nuns, I'd think they'd be a little more well behaved... would Jesus break into a missle silo to protest nuclear missiles?

No offense, Gortexfogg, but have you even read the bible?

21:12
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
21:13
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.


So, WWJD? He would charge in and knock some shit over.

Phaenx · 07-27-2003, 11:22 PM

If you turned a church into a casino he would. He didn't exactly burst into the Roman senate and go "NO WAR IN GREECE!"

MrSmashy · 07-28-2003, 12:01 AM

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Originally posted by sixate
LINKY

I won't call what they did protesting. When you break laws you are no longer protesting. You now become a lowlife criminal. [/B]

Obviously you're not a beleiver in civil disobedience.

Pennington · 07-28-2003, 12:18 AM

Civil disobedience doesn't include causing damage to property.

seretogis · 07-28-2003, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hobo
It says that the judge ordered the nuns to reimburse the gov't for the repair cost for the fence. a bit over $3000.

Oops, thanks for catching that. I misread it and thought that he waived fines and the cost of the fence.

sixate · 07-28-2003, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrSmashy
Obviously you're not a beleiver in civil disobedience.

I sure don't. Are you saying that you think it's OK?

The_Dude · 07-28-2003, 11:35 AM

hold up.......look @ what martin luther king did. that's civil disobedience. he did not cause any damage to any property.

what these nuns did is NOT civil disobedience in my eyes.

sixate · 07-28-2003, 11:39 AM

Dude, there's a huge difference between fighting against racism and what these dumbass criminals did. I'm sure you're smart enough to understand, right?

seretogis · 07-28-2003, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
Dude, there's a huge difference between fighting against racism and what these dumbass criminals did. I'm sure you're smart enough to understand, right?

sixate, read his message again -- he's agreeing with you that property damage is not civil disobedience.

Bill O'Rights · 07-29-2003, 06:48 AM

That missile silo falls under the auspices of F.E.Warren AFB, in Cheyenne Wy. I was assigned to the 90th Security Police Squadron there in the early 80's. As reconmike pointed out earlier, these fences are clearly marked, in large red letters, "Restricted Area...Use Of Deadly Force Authorized". I can remember security forces having to deploy to these same type of "protests", on about a monthly basis, at some of the more remotely located Launch Facilities. These were largely perpetrated by idealistic college students, but a fair number were orchastrated by Catholic priests and nuns. I see that twenty some odd years has changed little.

Melwas · 07-29-2003, 12:14 PM

Ooo.. expensive fence.

seretogis · 07-29-2003, 12:28 PM

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Originally posted by Melwas
Ooo.. expensive fence.

It had to be fixed with a $12,000 wrench and a $8,000 toilet seat.

chavos · 07-29-2003, 04:31 PM

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I won't call what they did protesting. When you break laws you are no longer protesting. You now become a lowlife criminal.

No shit...i mean, damn that Rosa Parks, and Martin Luther King, too! For that matter, the sabatours that tried to trip up the Nazis, Thoreou, the hippies at Tienamen Square, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, any other rabble rouser. I can't beleive people don't follow unjust laws, and just mind their own business.

No, wait, that's total bullshit. They were obviously willing to serve this sentence in order to break laws they think are unjust. They did so in a non-violent manner, and made no effort to disguise what they did. I don't agree with them, but your condemnation of them is without merit. Simply attacking them as being "lowlife" does nothing to prove the worth, or lack thereof of civil disobediance.

Nor does "property damage" make the difference. They're going to pay for the fence, a very costly one at that. I'm simply unmoved as to the difference between making the state pay to arrest someone and making the state pay for a fence is.

If you say civil disobedieance is ALWAYS wrong, then you have ceeded ALL moral judgement on your behavior to the state, and beleive that you will follow any order or law, no matter how odious it is to you. The phrase "just following orders" ring a bell? There is no free thinking allowed in that position-all laws are 100% moral becase the state enforces them, and all you do is in complience with the laws. Take a broader view...the state is not perfect. Resigning your responsibility over to them by refusing to disobey injust laws is to empty yourself of your free will.

Phaenx · 07-29-2003, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill O'Rights
That missile silo falls under the auspices of F.E.Warren AFB, in Cheyenne Wy. I was assigned to the 90th Security Police Squadron there in the early 80's. As reconmike pointed out earlier, these fences are clearly marked, in large red letters, "Restricted Area...Use Of Deadly Force Authorized". I can remember security forces having to deploy to these same type of "protests", on about a monthly basis, at some of the more remotely located Launch Facilities. These were largely perpetrated by idealistic college students, but a fair number were orchastrated by Catholic priests and nuns. I see that twenty some odd years has changed little.

How often do they get shot?

sixate · 07-29-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
How often do they get shot?

Not often anough! It's good for them I'm not standing in their way with a gun.

Phaenx · 07-29-2003, 06:04 PM

Hehe, same here.

nofnway · 07-29-2003, 09:43 PM

protesters in general are retarded......

nobody really listens to them do they.....

Good job there the world is much safer now that the missiles are crossed with nun's blood! Retarded..(oops mentally handicapped..my bad)

Lets raise awareness...come on....

painting missiles or sitting in trees, flopping in the street etc.... are so played out.

If you want to do something fucking "DO SOMETHING"

Grab some power....convince some people to see it your way.
Put your money where your mouth is.

Frankly if a protester against or for anything gets in my way......that is the day the brakes on the car fail and I remember to wear the steel toes.

Peace is only possible under the credible threat of force. Pick your government, pick your religion....they all boil down to that.

As twisted as it works out nuns in jail keeps the peace >:P

nofnway · 07-29-2003, 09:51 PM

I apologize for the use of profanity in my previous post.
Don't know how I got so carried away.

reconmike · 07-30-2003, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
How often do they get shot?

We also had numerous protests at the base I was stationed at, most of the time when we would react they would lay down peacefully and be arrested.

One time we showed up in APC's (ammored personal carriers) I was manning a M60 machine gun when we ordered them to stop, but they refused and we needed to stop them so I fired a 6 round burst over their heads.

Funny to see someone shit their pants, litterelly.

HarmlessRabbit · 07-30-2003, 07:40 AM

Quote:

No shit...i mean, damn that Rosa Parks, and Martin Luther King, too! For that matter, the sabatours that tried to trip up the Nazis, Thoreou, the hippies at Tienamen Square, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, any other rabble rouser. I can't beleive people don't follow unjust laws, and just mind their own business.

Or the boston tea party, for that matter.

Don't expect a response from the opposition on your valid point. They are too busy bragging about all the nuns that they would happily murder if they were in charge.

Bill O'Rights · 07-30-2003, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reconmike
We also had numerous protests at the base I was stationed at, most of the time when we would react they would lay down peacefully and be arrested.

One time we showed up in APC's (ammored personal carriers) I was manning a M60 machine gun when we ordered them to stop, but they refused and we needed to stop them so I fired a 6 round burst over their heads.

Funny to see someone shit their pants, litterelly.

Very much the same on the Air Force side. They had a point to make, they felt that they made it, and quietly gave themselves over to us. Usually, just the sound of charging a round into an M-16 was enough to scare them shitless. No, to my knowledge, no one was ever actually shot and killed. Although I do remember a Senior Airman receiving an Article 15 because he fired about a half dozen rounds into the ground, at the feet of a fleeing protester. (Warning shots are forbidden in the Air Force) After that, we took a MWD (Military Working Dog) team out with us. Nothing like a German Shepard, with dripping fangs, snarling at you to to bring about an attitude adjustment. Damn...I just realized...I sure miss those days.

reconmike · 07-30-2003, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit
Or the boston tea party, for that matter.

Don't expect a response from the opposition on your valid point. They are too busy bragging about all the nuns that they would happily murder if they were in charge.

Well in the instance I had mentioned I was in charge as the Staff NCO of the day, I could have giving an order to kill them all because they were a percieved threat by not complying to orders to stop and surrender. But instead I made one shit his pants.

I will try and say this one time:

When you break into a nuclear storage or launch area that is a restricted area you are lucky if you are not killed justifiably.
That is not civil disobedieance, this is a felony and a breach of national security.

HarmlessRabbit · 07-30-2003, 10:08 AM

Quote:

When you break into a nuclear storage or launch area that is a restricted area you are lucky if you are not killed justifiably.
That is not civil disobedieance, this is a felony and a breach of national security.

Let's try to spin this a whole other way:

when you break into a cargo ship in a harbor and throw the contents into the sea, that is not civil disobedience, that is a felony and a breach of security.

when you are a black and sit in the white section of a bus, that is a felony and a breach of the law.

when you refuse to pay justified taxes, you are committing a crime and breaking the law, and depriving the government of revenue needed for national security.

How do those sound to you?

Most recently, the government has enacted "protest zones" which herd legal protesters out of the view of the very events that they are protesting. Leaving the protest zone is "breaking the law". The goverment could just as easily outlaw all protests, so, under your logic, no protesting at all would now be allowed, since that would be breaking the law.

A goverment like the one you apparently want to live in has a name:
Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition


Here are some quotes back at you.

"Give me liberty or give me death."

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
--Senator Barry Goldwater

They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin

The cost of liberty is less than the cost of repression.
--WEB Dubois

If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law. ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849

Bill O'Rights · 07-31-2003, 05:21 AM

Damn it, HarmlessRabbit, you're not getting it! I suppose there's no reason that you should. There is a Hell of a difference between the actions you mention...and breaching the boundaries of a nuclear weapons storage facility. These are nuclear weapons, for christ's sake! The government, and the military in particular, leaves absolutely no room for fucking around with these things. Nuclear weapons security is taken dead seriously. That is as it should be. Protest all you fucking want outside the fence. Hell, I might even agree with your cause. I have no great love of nukes. But, breach that fence...you are very likely to get shot.

HarmlessRabbit · 07-31-2003, 02:14 PM

No, bill o'Rights, you're the one that appears to be missing the issue. Allow me to pick out a few quotes from the posters.

Quote:

I won't call what they did protesting. When you break laws you are no longer protesting. You now become a lowlife criminal.

Quote:

Hm, what would Jesus do? Lets set them on fire and send them to hell instead of 6 years in prison.

Quote:

Civil disobedience doesn't include causing damage to property.

Quote:

It's good for them I'm not standing in their way with a gun.

Quote:

Frankly if a protester against or for anything gets in my way......that is the day the brakes on the car fail and I remember to wear the steel toes.

Quote:

When you break into a nuclear storage or launch area that is a restricted area you are lucky if you are not killed justifiably.
That is not civil disobedieance, this is a felony and a breach of national security.

The issue is greater than the nuclear weapons issue. The people above, for the most part, appear to:

- believe that civil disobedience, which this country was created from, is only ok if you don't break any laws. (discovering why this position is ridiculous is left to the reader as an exercise.)
- apparently, the proper response to nuns armed with paint and signs is to joyously gun them down in cold blood, or set them on fire and "send them to hell."

The arrogance and stupidity of the conservative side astounds me sometimes. I have *never* called for the death of Rush Limbaugh, for example, nor would I ever attempt to silence his right to free speech or protest. I wouldn't even joke about that. Totalitarianism and fascism isn't funny, especially today in the era of John Ashcroft.

I don't see the difference between this act and the Boston Tea party. I don't see the difference between this act and Rosa Parks walking onto the white section of a bus, breaking the law and risking lynching.

If Rosa Parks did what she did today, I guess the group posting here would shoot her, set her on fire, throw her in jail, and then bill her for the damage caused by any subsequent rioting that she caused.

Frankly, the conservatives on this thread disgust me. Shooting and killing 60-year old nuns armed with buckets of paint is apparently good humor material for the Right.

Phaenx · 07-31-2003, 05:21 PM

Civil disobediance is not okay. Are you planning to bring down the United States with these sorts of acts like said Boston tea party individuals did? Oh wait no, they were protesting England, not their own country. You almost tricked me, I'll get you liberals for continuously distorting history for your political gain, one day.

These people were in a place they knowingly shouldn't have been, with all the problems we've been having with terrorism lately, would I trust someone dressed up like a nun carrying tools? No. Should I? No. End of discussion, unless you have some sort of facts, rather then moral/idealistic attacks.

And frankly, you should know the rules of this forum by now, calling people stupid, arrogant and disgusting is not acceptable.

bobw · 07-31-2003, 05:44 PM

if they're guilty, shouldnt matter who they are or what their chose profession is....

reconmike · 07-31-2003, 07:02 PM

Quote:

I don't see the difference between this act and the Boston Tea party. I don't see the difference between this act and Rosa Parks walking onto the white section of a bus, breaking the law and risking lynching.

I have a wonderful Idea, why dont you grab some paint and a ladder find yourself a nuclear silo or storage area and see how you are treated.
Or better yet why dont you run down to Toys-r-us and get a little plastic M-16(make sure you cover all that bright orange plastic with black paint) and then go do your civil lawlessness on that same base, see where that gets you.

You do not get it, THEY WERE IN A RESTRICTED AREA THAT HAS NUCLEAR WEAPONS !
They were not sitting in or peace marching for love and drugs.

If you can not see the difference, well maybe you should lay off the peace, love and understanding mantra.

07-27-2003, 02:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	I was stationed at a "naval weapon station" for some time, and if there was an intruder in the "limited access area" the use of deadly force was authorized. These women are lucky to be alive. It doesnt matter if they were nuns, dishwashers, or honor roll students they breeched a weapon silo which is against federal law, so off to prison with them. __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

07-27-2003, 02:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Break into a missle silo. Good idea. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

07-27-2003, 02:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	somebody plz explain to me why they were charged with"October 2002 act of civil disobedience" and not trespassing or something worse?? __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

07-27-2003, 09:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
ctembreull Crazy Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA, Earth	Surprisingly, I thought their sentence was light. I agree with what they were trying to say, but I disagree completely on how they chose to do it. If you do the crime, you do the time - person of the cloth or not. That said, I have nothing but respect for those nuns for having the sheer, unadulterated balls (okay, pardon the phrase) to follow their conscience, damn the consequences. __________________ Mac "If it's nae Scottish, it's crap!

07-27-2003, 09:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Hm, what would Jesus do? Lets set them on fire and send them to hell instead of 6 years in prison. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

07-27-2003, 09:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
Pennington Banned Location: Autonomous Zone	What they did was wrong, I won't argue that. But when sentencing, the judge has to look at their intent when they commited the crime. These nuns didn't intend to destroy the silos or cause their malfunction. They were making a statement, and while they didn't need to cause damage to make it, they shouldn't be punished as though they intended to make any serious damage. The judge was right, in my opinion, because the laws were designed to punish people who intended to do serious harm or disable property, not protesters making a political statement. The differance is somewhat like manslaughter and murder. While they may have the same outcome, the criminals had differant intents and it should be treated as such.

07-27-2003, 11:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Stare At The Sun Eh? Location: Somewhere over the rainbow	They did deserve to be punished, but jeez, you gotta feel bad for em, but im glad they atleast got a lesser sentance. Sucks though, cause i didnt even here about this until now...so the original message was lost

07-27-2003, 04:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
zekezero Upright	did the same thing to a school teacher last year

07-27-2003, 09:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
Gortexfogg I and I Location: Stillwater, OK	As nuns, I'd think they'd be a little more well behaved... would Jesus break into a missle silo to protest nuclear missiles? Maybe. Would he make a cross out of his own blood on the silo? Probably not. 41 months isn't an easy sentence, but I wouldn't feel guilty giving them a year or two more.

07-27-2003, 10:07 PM	#11 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	They deserve every moment that they spend in jail. Anyone who feels bad for the nuns or think it was wrong to charge them, needs to re-evaluate exactly what "law" is, and who are exempt from it. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames Last edited by seretogis; 07-28-2003 at 11:47 AM..

07-27-2003, 11:22 PM	#14 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	If you turned a church into a casino he would. He didn't exactly burst into the Roman senate and go "NO WAR IN GREECE!" __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

07-28-2003, 12:18 AM	#16 (permalink)
Pennington Banned Location: Autonomous Zone	Civil disobedience doesn't include causing damage to property.

07-28-2003, 11:35 AM	#19 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	hold up.......look @ what martin luther king did. that's civil disobedience. he did not cause any damage to any property. what these nuns did is NOT civil disobedience in my eyes. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

07-28-2003, 11:39 AM	#20 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	Dude, there's a huge difference between fighting against racism and what these dumbass criminals did. I'm sure you're smart enough to understand, right?

07-29-2003, 06:48 AM	#22 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	That missile silo falls under the auspices of F.E.Warren AFB, in Cheyenne Wy. I was assigned to the 90th Security Police Squadron there in the early 80's. As reconmike pointed out earlier, these fences are clearly marked, in large red letters, "Restricted Area...Use Of Deadly Force Authorized". I can remember security forces having to deploy to these same type of "protests", on about a monthly basis, at some of the more remotely located Launch Facilities. These were largely perpetrated by idealistic college students, but a fair number were orchastrated by Catholic priests and nuns. I see that twenty some odd years has changed little. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

07-29-2003, 12:14 PM	#23 (permalink)
Melwas Tilted	Ooo.. expensive fence.

07-29-2003, 06:04 PM	#28 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Hehe, same here. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

07-29-2003, 09:43 PM	#29 (permalink)
nofnway Insane Location: under the freeway bridge	protesters in general are retarded...... nobody really listens to them do they..... Good job there the world is much safer now that the missiles are crossed with nun's blood! Retarded..(oops mentally handicapped..my bad) Lets raise awareness...come on.... painting missiles or sitting in trees, flopping in the street etc.... are so played out. If you want to do something fucking "DO SOMETHING" Grab some power....convince some people to see it your way. Put your money where your mouth is. Frankly if a protester against or for anything gets in my way......that is the day the brakes on the car fail and I remember to wear the steel toes. Peace is only possible under the credible threat of force. Pick your government, pick your religion....they all boil down to that. As twisted as it works out nuns in jail keeps the peace >:P __________________ "Iron rusts with disuse, stagnant water loses its purity and in cold water freezes. Even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind" Leonardo Da Vinci

07-29-2003, 09:51 PM	#30 (permalink)
nofnway Insane Location: under the freeway bridge	I apologize for the use of profanity in my previous post. Don't know how I got so carried away. __________________ "Iron rusts with disuse, stagnant water loses its purity and in cold water freezes. Even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind" Leonardo Da Vinci

07-31-2003, 05:21 AM	#36 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Damn it, HarmlessRabbit, you're not getting it! I suppose there's no reason that you should. There is a Hell of a difference between the actions you mention...and breaching the boundaries of a nuclear weapons storage facility. These are nuclear weapons, for christ's sake! The government, and the military in particular, leaves absolutely no room for fucking around with these things. Nuclear weapons security is taken <b>dead</b> seriously. That is as it should be. Protest all you fucking want <b><i>outside</b></i> the fence. Hell, I might even <i>agree</i> with your cause. I have no great love of nukes. But, breach that fence...you are very likely to get shot. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

07-31-2003, 05:21 PM	#38 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Civil disobediance is not okay. Are you planning to bring down the United States with these sorts of acts like said Boston tea party individuals did? Oh wait no, they were protesting England, not their own country. You almost tricked me, I'll get you liberals for continuously distorting history for your political gain, one day. These people were in a place they knowingly shouldn't have been, with all the problems we've been having with terrorism lately, would I trust someone dressed up like a nun carrying tools? No. Should I? No. End of discussion, unless you have some sort of facts, rather then moral/idealistic attacks. And frankly, you should know the rules of this forum by now, calling people stupid, arrogant and disgusting is not acceptable. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy Last edited by Phaenx; 07-31-2003 at 05:24 PM..

07-31-2003, 05:44 PM	#39 (permalink)
bobw Psycho Location: somewhere....	if they're guilty, shouldnt matter who they are or what their chose profession is....