Obama ends Iraq combat? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Derwood · 08-02-2010, 11:27 AM

President Obama on Iraq, live - The Oval: Tracking the Obama presidency

Surprised no one has talked about this. Thoughts? I think it's about 9 years too late

Cimarron29414 · 08-02-2010, 11:37 AM

A guy with a uniform, flag patch, and a gun is a soldier. You can call him a "fighting soldier" or a "transitional soldier". It's semantics to satisfy his base. When there are still 50,000 guys with uniforms, flag patches, and guns then you are still occupying in my book.

Don't get me wrong, the sooner the better. But the declaration is an election year stunt. It's the same as the Mission Accomplished backdrop.

Baraka_Guru · 08-02-2010, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cimarron29414

A guy with a uniform, flag patch, and a gun is a soldier. You can call him a "fighting soldier" or a "transitional soldier". It's semantics to satisfy his base. When there are still 50,000 guys with uniforms, flag patches, and guns then you are still occupying in my book.

Quote:

The president says that by the end of the month more than 90,000 troops will have come home from Iraq since he took office.

"As agreed to with the Iraqi government, we will maintain a transitional force until we remove all our troops from Iraq by the end of next year," Obama said of the 50,000 transitional force that will remain, "During this period, our forces will have a focused mission-supporting and training Iraqi forces, partnering with Iraqis in counterterrorism missions, and protecting our civilian and military efforts."

Obama On The Iraq Drawdown: 'As Promised and On Schedule' - Political Punch

This still says a drawdown is happening, that things are going as promised, and that operations are still set to end at the end of next year.

Is any of this a surprise?

hunnychile · 08-02-2010, 12:12 PM

It's one of many promises that President Obama is keeping.

Let's hope that the "other" War ends soon also. (These wars are bleeding the US dry.)

Now to find work for all these returning vets. Good Luck with THAT one.....

Cimarron29414 · 08-02-2010, 01:06 PM

I'm saying that it won't happen by the end of the year.

Baraka_Guru · 08-02-2010, 01:19 PM

Do you mean the end of next year?

Plan9 · 08-02-2010, 02:02 PM

Hah, I KNEW this picture would come in handy years from now. Here's my feelings on the topic:

Iraq is kinda like that fruitcake. And I mean the one stuffed with raisins.

...

It'll be a clusterfuck when we leave. Kinda like when we showed up in '03 playing cowboys and Indians.

I'm glad to see the military leave. There isn't a whole lot for big army to do in Iraq except set off IEDs.

Turns out white people and their black guns will be over there for a million years doing DoS type things.

Tully Mars · 08-02-2010, 02:23 PM

I'm happy to see us getting out there, finally. And yes I certainly hope we're able to keep or beat that time line of end of next year. What a boondoggle. Now let's get the heck out of Afghan before it does to us what it's done to so many in the past( USSR et el.) The faster we bring our troops home safe and sound the better I'll feel.

---------- Post added at 05:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunnychile

It's one of many promises that President Obama is keeping.

Let's hope that the "other" War ends soon also. (These wars are bleeding the US dry.)

Now to find work for all these returning vets. Good Luck with THAT one.....

Why are you worried about being "bleed dry?" as Cheney stated in 2004- Deficts don't matter, Reagan prove it

As for work. Hmm, we'll likely always have the never ending "war on drugs," that's job security right there. And once we get rid of all these illegals there will be plenty on work to be found. There's suppose to be something like 11 million of them. We certainly don't have 11 million troops, right?

Problem solved, mission accomplished. And in a good old fashion neo-con way. Everyone will be happy.

Shadowex3 · 08-02-2010, 05:51 PM

How about we withdraw from the War On Marijuana and then maybe at least all the people still getting screwed by the economy (and the ridiculous generation-hate) will at least be a little less... stressed.

Plan9 · 08-02-2010, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowex3

How about we withdraw from the War On Marijuana and then maybe at least all the people still getting screwed by the economy (and the ridiculous generation-hate) will at least be a little less... stressed.

Something tells me the polar opposite won't help the country in These Economic Times (TM). Unless you're buying stock in Funyuns.

roachboy · 08-02-2010, 07:44 PM

so i detect a kind of floating cynicism about the withdrawal.
where was this about the war itself?
o wait: the americans haven't quite worked out this democratic process might equal coming to some kind of terms with the past.
so there's not even a chilcot commission.
there's nothing like an inquiry into the farcical neo-con agenda and the shabby-ass fake intel that got the us involved in iraq in the first place.
there's nothing.

there's just a leaving.
and we're a little jaded for that.

Plan9 · 08-02-2010, 07:59 PM

I'm a big dummy, but I'll throw in my two cents:

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

so i detect a kind of floating cynicism about the withdrawal. where was this about the war itself?

Oh, I dunno... probably over there filling sandbags and dodging mortar rounds while you had your morning tea. I was surprised how few OMGFuckYeahWar! guys are actually in the armed forces. Most enlisted guys I've met aren't fans of Iraq / OIF. Iraq is easy: WTF?

The notion that the American people were completely blind to the delayed kneejerk push into Iraq is a little insulting. We can't be that stupid, right? I think the whole "...but we're still in Afghanistan" thing helped a lot of average people put 2 + 2 together.

The scapegoat is Joe Sixpack's support of Dubya perhaps? Joe may have been into the invasion of Iraq. "Yeah, kick Saddam's ass [for _X_ murky reason]!" But that, like everything in Joe Sixpack's ADD mind, fades quickly. Just like America flags on September 12th 2001 vs. September 12th 2002.

A-stan is a mixed bag.

Quote:

there's nothing like an inquiry into the farcical neo-con agenda and the shabby-ass fake intel that got the us involved in iraq in the first place.

Okay. What consequences / penalties would you suggest or is it just to be part of Chapter 17 learning points in a Western Civ text circa 2035?

Quote:

there's just a leaving. and we're a little jaded for that.

What do you mean "we?"

...

I expect people to be bitter.

This wasn't a "war" in any sense of the word. Nobody really won anything. At least not in the sense that makes the music swell at the end of an action epic. How could it? All we have are some more headstones at Arlington and a lot of money invested in something we can't/don't want to keep.

roachboy · 08-02-2010, 08:15 PM

the chilcot commission seems to not want to hold anyone legally to account for anything. its more about the idea that it's better for the legitimacy of the order as a whole that it can admit when it fucks up.
i kinda like that idea.
like a truth commission, except one that hangs american conservatism out to dry for what it actually is responsible for.
but as for legal questions: i have nothing like the expertise that's required to talk about that and messageboard fulminations dont have the charm they once might have, so i dunno.

i don't think the problem is the poor individuals who found themselves in the line of fire. not at all.
it's the neo-con asshats whose cavalier relation to reality put them there who are the problem.

even now.

Plan9 · 08-02-2010, 08:21 PM

Once again, the conservative-sized noose is a wee bit too large to hang on such a small set of coulda-shoulda-woulda responsible necks.

roachboy · 08-02-2010, 08:46 PM

maybe that's the problem. it was the acquiescence of the entire political class that enabled the war. and for that there's alot of people in alot of positions that should be held to account.

personally, i regard the ability to come to some kind of accounting of this iraq war as a basic ethical and political test of what this american system is once you strip away the courtier blah blah blah.
so watch and see what happens.

personally, i think nothing is gonna happen.
because that's how we roll.

Tully Mars · 08-03-2010, 01:44 AM

Well 9 in regards to-

Quote:

The notion that the American people were completely blind to the delayed kneejerk push into Iraq is a little insulting. We can't be that stupid, right? I think the whole "...but we're still in Afghanistan" thing helped a lot of average people put 2 + 2 together.

I think Churchill said "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." But he also said "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

I don't know what the answers are but I feel like most of the questions that should have been asked prior to invading were never asked. Plus the questions that were asked were answered with either complete bullshit or nonsense. Shit like "this isn't going to be a long term thing, might last 6 day, 6 weeks or maybe 6 months." "I don't foresee a huge causality situation here for us." "We'll be greeted as liberators." "What was that? The costs?" "The oil revenue generated will allow the war to basically pay for itself. Then there's the whole WMD and ties to 9-11 reasoning, complete BS. None of it turned out to be true. The war has gone on for years, not days weeks or a few months, it's cost a lot of lives and money. There were no 9-11 ties or WMDs.

In my mind it was time to bring our troops home long ago, wish we'd never gone. But we had a bunch of "rah, rah, rah let's go get'em" folks here. Most of whom had little actual support for the war. "Pay for it? Screw you! You're not raising my taxes!" "Send my kid? To Fallujah? You're joking, right?"

Sure there were many families that supported this war completely. Many went. Many watched their sons and daughters gear up and hop on the big bird and fly off to the far side of the world. But those folks were out numbered, by far, by folks whose support for the war began and ended with the $3 yellow ribbon magnet attached to the ass end of their 40K 4X4 and "rah, rah, rah" attitude.

Xazy · 08-03-2010, 06:17 AM

As of July we have 176 "enemy combatents" in Guantanamo Bay. We shall see if this is another time Obama opens his mouth and inserts foot.

Tully Mars · 08-03-2010, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xazy

As of July we have 176 "enemy combatents" in Guantanamo Bay. We shall see if this is another time Obama opens his mouth and inserts foot.

And this has to do with ending combat operations in Iraq how?

Plan9 · 08-03-2010, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

I think Churchill said "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." But he also said "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

I don't know what the answers are but I feel like most of the questions that should have been asked prior to invading were never asked. Plus the questions that were asked were answered with either complete bullshit or nonsense. Shit like "this isn't going to be a long term thing, might last 6 day, 6 weeks or maybe 6 months." "I don't foresee a huge causality situation here for us." "We'll be greeted as liberators." "What was that? The costs?" "The oil revenue generated will allow the war to basically pay for itself. Then there's the whole WMD and ties to 9-11 reasoning, complete BS. None of it turned out to be true. The war has gone on for years, not days weeks or a few months, it's cost a lot of lives and money. There were no 9-11 ties or WMDs.

In my mind it was time to bring our troops home long ago, wish we'd never gone. But we had a bunch of "rah, rah, rah let's go get'em" folks here. Most of whom had little actual support for the war. "Pay for it? Screw you! You're not raising my taxes!" "Send my kid? To Fallujah? You're joking, right?"

Sure there were many families that supported this war completely. Many went. Many watched their sons and daughters gear up and hop on the big bird and fly off to the far side of the world. But those folks were out numbered, by far, by folks whose support for the war began and ended with the $3 yellow ribbon magnet attached to the ass end of their 40K 4X4 and "rah, rah, rah" attitude.

Yeah. It's more depressing when you say it.

Tully Mars · 08-03-2010, 11:04 AM

I honestly did not mean to depress you, or anyone for that matter. Although it does depress me. I look at my new grand daughter and realize she and quite possibly her children, will be paying off the debts of the Bush tax cuts and the wars. How depressing is that?

But that's how I see this issue and how I viewed it as it unfolded. I always thought Bush and the neo-cons really squandered an opportunity to unite the nation after 9-11. Seriously "W's" support was something like 94% right after 9-11 and I remember seeing those numbers and thinking "who the hell doesn't support the POTUS at a time like this? We are clearly at war, WTF are other 6% thinking?" The the talk about invading Iraq came out and I was completely lost. W's dad said at the end, or near the end, of the 1st Gulf War he didn't go in and take out Saddam because "it would have created a a power vacuum" and there would be no way of knowing what would result from that. Well what do we have in Iraq now? Someday we're going to have to leave and my guess is it'll be a mess when we do.

If Bush and the neo-cons would have focused on Afghan, been hawkish on spending and paying for that war we'd be a much different country today. Bush never vetoed one spending bill. The debt increased dramatically during his admin. His Admin. started TARP and the bail outs. Now the same people who we're 100% with him are suddenly worried about spending and the debt and they hate the bail outs and TARP. They, like all politicians, hate it when the other side is writing checks but have no problems when their side is doing the rubber check thing.

FuglyStick · 08-03-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

I honestly did not mean to depress you, or anyone for that matter. Although it does depress me. I look at my new grand daughter and realize she and quite possibly her children, will be paying off the debts of the Bush tax cuts and the wars. How depressing is that?

But that's how I see this issue and how I viewed it as it unfolded. I always thought Bush and the neo-cons really squandered an opportunity to unite the nation after 9-11. Seriously "W's" support was something like 94% right after 9-11 and I remember seeing those numbers and thinking "who the hell doesn't support the POTUS at a time like this? We are clearly at war, WTF are other 6% thinking?" The the talk about invading Iraq came out and I was completely lost. W's dad said at the end, or near the end, of the 1st Gulf War he didn't go in and take out Saddam because "it would have created a a power vacuum" and there would be no way of knowing what would result from that. Well what do we have in Iraq now? Someday we're going to have to leave and my guess is it'll be a mess when we do.

If Bush and the neo-cons would have focused on Afghan, been hawkish on spending and paying for that war we'd be a much different country today. Bush never vetoed one spending bill. The debt increased dramatically during his admin. His Admin. started TARP and the bail outs. Now the same people who we're 100% with him are suddenly worried about spending and the debt and they hate the bail outs and TARP. They, like all politicians, hate it when the other side is writing checks but have no problems when their side is doing the rubber check thing.

You're my hero.

08-02-2010, 11:27 AM	#1 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	Obama ends Iraq combat? President Obama on Iraq, live - The Oval: Tracking the Obama presidency Surprised no one has talked about this. Thoughts? I think it's about 9 years too late __________________ "You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

08-02-2010, 11:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	A guy with a uniform, flag patch, and a gun is a soldier. You can call him a "fighting soldier" or a "transitional soldier". It's semantics to satisfy his base. When there are still 50,000 guys with uniforms, flag patches, and guns then you are still occupying in my book. Don't get me wrong, the sooner the better. But the declaration is an election year stunt. It's the same as the Mission Accomplished backdrop. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

08-02-2010, 12:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
hunnychile Alien Anthropologist Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana	It's one of many promises that President Obama is keeping. Let's hope that the "other" War ends soon also. (These wars are bleeding the US dry.) Now to find work for all these returning vets. Good Luck with THAT one..... __________________ "I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

08-02-2010, 01:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	I'm saying that it won't happen by the end of the year. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

08-02-2010, 01:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Do you mean the end of next year? __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

08-02-2010, 02:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Hah, I KNEW this picture would come in handy years from now. Here's my feelings on the topic: Iraq is kinda like that fruitcake. And I mean the one stuffed with raisins. ... It'll be a clusterfuck when we leave. Kinda like when we showed up in '03 playing cowboys and Indians. I'm glad to see the military leave. There isn't a whole lot for big army to do in Iraq except set off IEDs. Turns out white people and their black guns will be over there for a million years doing DoS type things. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-02-2010 at 02:08 PM..

08-02-2010, 07:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	so i detect a kind of floating cynicism about the withdrawal. where was this about the war itself? o wait: the americans haven't quite worked out this democratic process might equal coming to some kind of terms with the past. so there's not even a chilcot commission. there's nothing like an inquiry into the farcical neo-con agenda and the shabby-ass fake intel that got the us involved in iraq in the first place. there's nothing. there's just a leaving. and we're a little jaded for that. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 08-02-2010 at 07:47 PM..

08-02-2010, 08:15 PM	#13 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	the chilcot commission seems to not want to hold anyone legally to account for anything. its more about the idea that it's better for the legitimacy of the order as a whole that it can admit when it fucks up. i kinda like that idea. like a truth commission, except one that hangs american conservatism out to dry for what it actually is responsible for. but as for legal questions: i have nothing like the expertise that's required to talk about that and messageboard fulminations dont have the charm they once might have, so i dunno. i don't think the problem is the poor individuals who found themselves in the line of fire. not at all. it's the neo-con asshats whose cavalier relation to reality put them there who are the problem. even now. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 08-02-2010 at 08:17 PM..

08-02-2010, 08:21 PM	#14 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Once again, the conservative-sized noose is a wee bit too large to hang on such a small set of coulda-shoulda-woulda responsible necks. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

08-02-2010, 08:46 PM	#15 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	maybe that's the problem. it was the acquiescence of the entire political class that enabled the war. and for that there's alot of people in alot of positions that should be held to account. personally, i regard the ability to come to some kind of accounting of this iraq war as a basic ethical and political test of what this american system is once you strip away the courtier blah blah blah. so watch and see what happens. personally, i think nothing is gonna happen. because that's how we roll. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

08-03-2010, 06:17 AM	#17 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	As of July we have 176 "enemy combatents" in Guantanamo Bay. We shall see if this is another time Obama opens his mouth and inserts foot.

08-03-2010, 11:04 AM	#20 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	I honestly did not mean to depress you, or anyone for that matter. Although it does depress me. I look at my new grand daughter and realize she and quite possibly her children, will be paying off the debts of the Bush tax cuts and the wars. How depressing is that? But that's how I see this issue and how I viewed it as it unfolded. I always thought Bush and the neo-cons really squandered an opportunity to unite the nation after 9-11. Seriously "W's" support was something like 94% right after 9-11 and I remember seeing those numbers and thinking "who the hell doesn't support the POTUS at a time like this? We are clearly at war, WTF are other 6% thinking?" The the talk about invading Iraq came out and I was completely lost. W's dad said at the end, or near the end, of the 1st Gulf War he didn't go in and take out Saddam because "it would have created a a power vacuum" and there would be no way of knowing what would result from that. Well what do we have in Iraq now? Someday we're going to have to leave and my guess is it'll be a mess when we do. If Bush and the neo-cons would have focused on Afghan, been hawkish on spending and paying for that war we'd be a much different country today. Bush never vetoed one spending bill. The debt increased dramatically during his admin. His Admin. started TARP and the bail outs. Now the same people who we're 100% with him are suddenly worried about spending and the debt and they hate the bail outs and TARP. They, like all politicians, hate it when the other side is writing checks but have no problems when their side is doing the rubber check thing. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club Last edited by Tully Mars; 08-03-2010 at 11:06 AM..