Amaras

So begins the silliness. Already a Republican Congressman has started with the flinging of random shit at Obama. What is it with these guys? I can understand disagreeing with his policies, or what he stands for, but this is propaganda of a cro-magnon brow nature.
Does anyone actually believe this stuff?

Here's the original link: Republican Congressman Warns of Obama Dictatorship - FOXNews.com Elections
WASHINGTON -- A Republican congressman from Georgia said Monday he fears that President-elect Obama will establish a Gestapo-like security force to impose a Marxist or fascist dictatorship.

"It may sound a bit crazy and off base, but the thing is, he's the one who proposed this national security force," Rep. Paul Broun said of Obama in an interview Monday with The Associated Press. "I'm just trying to bring attention to the fact that we may -- may not, I hope not -- but we may have a problem with that type of philosophy of radical socialism or Marxism."

Broun cited a July speech by Obama that has circulated on the Internet in which the then-Democratic presidential candidate called for a civilian force to take some of the national security burden off the military.

"That's exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it's exactly what the Soviet Union did," Broun said. "When he's proposing to have a national security force that's answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he's showing me signs of being Marxist."

Obama's comments about a national security force came during a speech in Colorado about building a new civil service corps. Among other things, he called for expanding the nation's foreign service and doubling the size of the Peace Corps "to renew our diplomacy."

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set," Obama said in July. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

Broun said he also believes Obama likely will move to ban gun ownership if he does build a national police force.

Obama has said he respects the Second Amendment right to bear arms and favors "common sense" gun laws. Gun rights advocates interpret that as meaning he'll at least enact curbs on ownership of assault weapons and concealed weapons. As an Illinois state lawmaker, Obama supported a ban on semiautomatic weapons and tighter restrictions on firearms generally.

"We can't be lulled into complacency," Broun said. "You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I'm not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I'm saying is there is the potential."

Obama's transition office did not respond immediately to Broun's remarks.


How do you feel about these types of attacks?
Is there a grain of truth to what they say?
Does this add or subtract to the political debate?
Or is it solely done to muddy the waters, and reduce the effectiveness of Obama
BEFORE he even takes office.
Is this type of attack primarily from the Republican side of the fence?
Republicans/righties, how does this make you guys feel?

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

roachboy

this really is not about the world that other people know about: it's more a symptom of the situation in which the republicans now find themselves:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/us...repubs.html?hp

i would expect period issuances of such gunk as this internal debate unfolds. it's the populist zanies who are in the most immediate danger, so they can be seen as a particularly busy sector for dissociative pronouncements as their ship sinks---or doesn't as the case may end up being.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

I think roachboy is right (has been right) about what's happening to the Republicans, and I think the byproducts, symptoms, and problems are gross. Let's hope the ultimate outcome isn't as unsavoury.

I can't believe this guy actually Godwined the media.

This is a classic slippery-slope fallacy.

I think this congressman is an idiot.

If he isn't an idiot, then he's a propagandist.

Didn't the Nazis and Communists use propaganda?

Who's the fascist now, my friend?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Glory's Sun

well.. in all honesty.. it's never too early for the right to be thinking about 2012.

that's the only reasoning I can come up with when these type of statements are made.

lotsofmagnets

it´s just more of the same. i saw a lot of these sorts of attacks made by all sorts of politicians back in australia.

__________________
mother nature made the aeroplane, and the submarine sandwich, with the steady hands and dead eye of a remarkable sculptor.
she shed her mountain turning training wheels, for the convenience of the moving sidewalk, that delivers the magnetic monkey children through the mouth of impossible calendar clock, into the devil's manhole cauldron.
physics of a bicycle, isn't it remarkable?

shakran

Sadly the public will probably not remember what this little jackass said when he's up for reelection.

But we have to remember that this, rather than governing, is what the republicans are best at. They're lousy as hell when they're actually in power, but they tend to be very good at hampering and harassing when they're not. I expect an all out republican assault on Obama and the congressional democrats for the next four years. It's what they did with Clinton. I just hope (and I have a feeling it is not unwarranted hope) that Obama is a lot better at . . keeping it in his pants. . .than Billy boy was. The republicans had a wonderful time launching an all out assault on Clinton over his marital infidelities (which made it especially ironic that they ran McCain this time around) - it would be nice if that little bit of ammunition were not available for their arsenal this time around, because the rest of it (they're driving us to economic ruin, they're taking your rights away, and they're... Nazis) will make them, especially in light of the W administration, look rather foolish.

abaya

That's a polite word for it. It's more than alarming that some people actually take this bullshit to be *reality*, though.

It disconcerts me how the Republicans are already scheming out their plan of "attack" to take back power, before Obama has even been sworn in. As if this country has nothing better to do than sit through another 2+ years of clusterfucked campaigning between The Two Parties, and actually convince themselves that this is how Things Should Always Be. As if no one else in this country cares about actually working TOGETHER, and not alienating the other party (in the way that Bush's 8 years have done) and everyone else. It sickens me.

It's so difficult to imagine how the US is going to evolve into a system that has more to offer its citizens. I look around here at the Icelandic 6-party system (in a nation of 300,000 people), and stand amazed that it has been able to come up with this in just 64 years as an independent nation. There are a lot of things wrong with Iceland, but I believe that their more diverse political system has many lessons for us as Americans.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Amaras

I wonder what those who voted for McCain think?

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

filtherton

He's just speaking for the people who voted for him. One can only hope that they keep it up. People seemed to overwhelmingly reject this type of thing last Tuesday.

Derwood

idiots like this make me yearn for term limits

Poppinjay

Jeb Bush had a good line, about the GOP being kind of stupid wondering why they lost when they campaigned almost solely about what they were against, which seemed to be health care, the environment, young people, hispanics....

The GOP is deeply split right now. There are some die hard take it to the grave right wingers who are increasingly going to give the GOP a bad name. Then there's the crunchy cons who actually have a real chance to take over the party.

Ah, here's Jeb's quote:

"Conservatives need to do the math.
We can’t be anti-Hispanic, anti-young
person and anti many things and be
surprised when we don’t win elections."

Then there's the John Derbyshire faction:

"This shallow, ignorant, self-obsessed man, who held an actual job for just one year
of his charmed life, this red-diaper baby and his wife, will be our First Couple for the
next four years and some weeks. It’ll be interesting."

Please, oh please keep it up. As long as these idiots are the larger faction of the GOP, democrats will sit pretty.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

genuinegirly

Yes. My parents-in-law believe it. This article was printed out and placed in a prominent place in the middle of the breakfast table for in-depth conversation among all family members today (have I mentioned I don't enjoy living here?). They are concerned about losing their freedoms with Obama in office. They see him as a hard-core communist and closet terrorist because of certain political affiliations. They are afraid of losing their arsenal of legal, registered guns. They are bothered by the idea of a national healthcare system, and view many of Obama's remarks about ceasing offshore drilling as hair-brained and naive. I could go on, but you get the point.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

abaya

GG, in your honest opinion, what do you think is behind their beliefs?

For me, all I can see when I read about people who believe that stuff is FEAR. Loads and loads and loads of it. I don't know if it's race-based fear, or if it extends much further than that into all kinds of other paranoia, but it all strikes me as extraordinarily unproductive.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

genuinegirly

Well, they have close friends that fit into the entire range of different ethnic heritages, so there's definitely no race-based fear in their case.

I honestly don't know what is behind their beliefs. It is not religion, as the local parish that they're actively involved with is pro-Obama. Perhaps it's all about their background. Fa-in-law is a Veteran and a lawyer. He has very firm opinions on everything. Mo-in-law is just as opinionated but more violent with her opinions. It is not uncommon for her to get into screaming matches when it comes to religion or politics. She is exceptionally conservative in some respects, but in others she's progressive (animal rights, for instance). They have traveled extensively with the service and on their own. They firmly believe in democracy and see the constitution as sacro-sanct. They feel strongly that any form of socialism undermines individuality and is a threat to their way of life. They see things as black and white, true or false, entirely good or entirely evil. Very few of their relatives and friends share their extreme perspectives.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Baraka_Guru

Does she know socialism is responsible for universal suffrage?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

shakran

Next time they say that, if you want to have a little fun, point to their car and ask them how they can live with themselves driving on the american socialist street network.

The_Dunedan

The Fear.

Wanna know where it comes from?

Take a good, long, hard look in the mirror. Because chances are, you've been part of it. I have too. And here's what The Fear is.

The Fear is the fact that everywhere rural, religious, individualist people look, they see a sneering mob of Others, of people who don't speak their language or hold their values or understand the world in the way they do. These Others act and perceive the world in ways which people afflicted with The Fear regard as crazy, or perhaps more accurately as incoherent, indescribable, inconsistent, and crazy. The Others hold all the power; they control the media, the Government, most of the everyday bureaucracy of life, and their consistent message is this:

You, your culture, your way of life, and everything you value will be eradicated. You are backwards, superstitious, left-behind relics of an irredeemable past, practitioners of a useless, pointless, and socially unacceptable way of life. Your culture, your values, and your ideals and properties and persons if needed, will be destroyed for the Greater Good. Your children will grow up inculcated with ideas and modes of thought that are alien to you in every way, your way of life will die and be forgotten. You and your people will cease to be. Die now and despair.

The thing is, The Fear is universal. Non-religious people feel it, pacifists do too, because the message which creates The Fear is literally everywhere in this society. From the "Cops Always Win" dramas on cable TV to the sneering faces of leftist newspaper columnists to the truly idiotic attacks one routinely sees posted on internet bulletin boards, the message is omnipresent and hyperconsistent. The Collective will always win, The Collective is always right, and if you do not submit, The Collective will crush you utterly. People with The Fear are in a minority, and they know it. They fear annihilation, not only in body but in spirit, on a very visceral level. Many of them have spent the last 8 years fuming and spewing damnations of the Bush regime, knowing that Bush was winning for The Collective powers that would one day be used...and now they see their ultimate horror, the hardest-left Collectivist in the legislature not only elected President, but elected President just as all the kinks in the PATRIOT ACT and it's excrementitious progeny were being ironed out. They see The Others looming over them, not only motivated but now empowered as well to utterly obliterate them and their way of life. Believe it or not, a lot of these people are very intelligent. Most, in my experience. They know what happened to the Native American Indians, and that's what they see on their horizons.

Fix that notion in your minds. They perceive the imminent, total destruction of their entire culture, on a scale of totality and ferocity not seen since the Indian Wars. They see themselves at Wounded Knee and Sand Creek and Waco, and they see no distinction between the three. They may have a point. None of the High Society Ladies back in New York, the ones who donated money to "Christianize the savages" had to get her hands bloody, that's what the Bluecoats were for. And none of the High Society Ladies who drive what these people see as a similar crusade will have to get their hands bloody either, between Blackwater and Obama's "domestic security force."


You wanted to know where The Fear comes from. There it is. It comes from fear of total destruction, the fear that can only come when that destruction is gloated over on national television. This kind of fear makes people a little crazy sometimes, and a little stupid a lot of the time. People under stresses like that will believe a lot of silly stuff, especially if that silly stuff has roots in fact. I spent this entire election season seething because, as I put it to a friend, "there are enough legitimate reasons to dislike Obama with making this silly shit up." But this silly shit sticks for a reason.

genuinegirly

Dunedan, excellent post. You have given me much to think about.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

filtherton

The funny thing about The Fear, is that people who experience The Fear generally have few qualms with forcing other people to experience it too.

For what its worth, The Fear is also what motivated a lot of people to vote for Obama.

Charlatan

Very true.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

dc_dux

There will always be fear of government. There are fears and then there are FEARS!

There were FEARS that Bush was creating displacement camps and would round up citizens under the Patriot Act or that he would find a way to cancel the recent election.

The FEARS that Obama will take the US down the road to socialism are equally ludicrous even as they continue to be fueled by partisan infotainment radio.

My fear is that the expectations for Obama are so high that they are impossible to meet and will lead to disenchantment among those who want change and want it now.
-----Added 12/11/2008 at 08 : 07 : 32-----
The Washington Post has an interesting analysis that looks at presidential "breakthrough ideas"

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

roachboy

thanks dunedan, for that post.

there are some strange aspects to it. first, i happened to watch a bio-doc about lee atwater last night, and the Fear you outline is exactly the fear that his political operations presupposed AND WORKED TO STRUCTURE. we've lived in a political context that has been dominated by traffic in this for 30 years, from the reagan period, through bush 1 etc etc.

the strange aspect of the post is the opposition between proximity (the Individuals who are close to you, whom you know as individuals and the lifeworld, i suppose--for lack of a better shorthand--that they share) and distance ("the collective" in your parlance, the many people whom you do not know, whose values who do not know about, whom you collapse into some Huge Amporphous Scary Mass)---the trick is that this is both way too simple and is entirely reversible---folk who live far from you and far from your world could just as easily play the same game as you, reversing the terms, adding their own choice patronizing adjectives to spice things up, and from there head down the same paranoid road as you.

"the collective" which is comprised of all the people you neither know nor understand, but who you imagine to see themselves as unified by some identification as part of an "elite" of some kind--this phantom gets pushed along the resonances generated by the word "collective" into some stalinism.

with that you, and the people whom you know and whom, because you know them, you differentiate into actual people, now find themselves facing something like stalin's first and second five-year plan, the centerpiece of which was the collectivization of agriculture.

but positioning yourself as some russian peasant, which would be the way this metaphor wold lead you, is not glam enough, so instead you substitute for your perception of this situation that of the native americans.

so the argument becomes that you are facing genocide.

i think that is a problem.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Poppinjay

I think the fact that we overwhelmingly elected a black man named Barack Hussein Obama shows that ultimately we are moving in the right direction.

There will always be some who cling to values not in pace with the majority. I think the strife and division felt now is far less than during the Clinton administration. Heck, Elzabeth Hasselbeck said this was a victory for America after campaigning and arguing relentlessly against him.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Prince

Even Hasselbeck isn't stupid enough to say anything to the contrary when half the population is orgasming over the historical aspect of this election. Hillary Clinton tried to paint Obama as incompetent and inexperienced, and then went on to back him. The same drill has been done a billion times over in the media and in politics. You can go against the grain as long as there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but once you've lost the race you either fall into the party line like everybody else, or you face a future in obscurity.

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Mojo_PeiPei

Ridiculously overstated fears about the (soon to be) Commander-in-Chief.... hrmmm haven't heard any of that around here

I was wondering if somebody could clear this up for me btw... Did Shrub execute (another) a domestic terrorist attack in a coup to circumvent the constitution to retain power?

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

smooth

Why would he need to do that? Bush is still using 9/11 to circumvent the constitution.
Bush pushes for easier spying at home // Current
Exclusive! Bush Proposes Regulatory Change to Ease Spying

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Mojo_PeiPei

Well, last time I checked, The President doesn't make law, and there are two other branches of government, one that so happens to be controlled by democrats, you know that branch that actually makes the law. Maybe their approval rating wouldn't be worse than Bush's if they actually manned up for a change?

At any rate Bush is gone, and Barry is in. Thanks to Bush, and the lack of spine the dems have shown over the last 8 years, Presidential Power is at an all time high, and usually it never rescinds or defers back anywhere close to where it started. SOOOO now that Bush the evil terrorist is gone, Obama could maybe theoretically start his own SS, or steal guns, or kill baby seals, who knows... maybe he'll ask Shrub to borrow him Blackwater, then we are all in big trouble.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

smooth

you should check again because you're either trying to make some semantic shift or are ignorant on the role the president has in executing laws in the nation.

was kinda hoping you'd have more than a high school civics understanding of laws and policies in the US...yes, the Congress makes "law" as per what nearly all of our teachers explained to us growing up.

try naming some laws that actually effect you on a day to day basis that come from Congress? Compare that to regulations and policies that affect you from the time you wake up to the time you go back to sleep: FCC, FDA, the Treasury dept, Dept. of Justice, are just some examples.

Every one of those agencies makes "law" in the way that government policies and actions affect your body and ideals. It's convenient for you to claim that the judicial branch makes law while refusing to use that same interpretation for the executive branch?

We have one branch that creates law, according to the strictest definition. The judicial branch merely interprets law. Although, many people feel that the effects produce law. How is that different than the treasury dept. interpreting the tax code and altering the "law" or the executive branch's prosecutoral arm interpreting the criminal code thereby altering the "law"?


Of course, your question was what Bush was doing to circumvent the constitution. Now you've tried to sidestep my direct answer by muddling with "what is law" and "who makes law" questions.

Go ahead...the answers won't support your position. But I'll play along because it's something of interest to me.
what is law?
who makes law?

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Mojo_PeiPei

I was merely trying to point out the ridiculousness of complaining about verbal assaults against Barry, when for the last 8 years 98% of people on this board have compared him to Hitler or some fascist dictator, who by many predictions (as I pointed out) was going to steal the presidency and reign above the constitution.

Constant bitching,moaning, and shrieking about instances of unconstitutional action, which wasn't even the point I was addressing in my response to your post. On the issue of "law" I was merely asking where the fuck has congress been? For as much as the democrats piss and moan about Shrub, they were awfully complacent and quiet... it's almost like he was good for business!

I guess the only point I was trying to make in regards to the OP was that, the sky did not fall under Shrub, nor will it under Barry. Even if the Communist Jihadist did seize the white house in a democratic coup.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

dc_dux

Mojo...so you're suggesting its ok for you to constantly bitch and moan and shriek for the next eight years because some Bush detractors did it first?

As a reminder of where the fuck Congress was during most of the last eight years of almost no oversight, the Republicans controlled both branches of government. Oversight of Bush's excesses only came in the last two years.

One of Obama's first actions will be to overturn many of Bush's excessive EOs which doesnt requre any Congressional action. I expect we'll hear lots of bitching and moaning from the right.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

smooth

I know the points you were trying to raise. The main problem is your opinions are based on factually incorrect information.
You are factually wrong that Congress is the be all and end all of US citizen's rights. They have very little to do with the way law interacts with our daily lives...yet you want to lay problems with our rights at their feet. You're factually wrong that Congress has been answerable to the Democrats for the past 8 years.

If you think the Democrats in Congress were complacent and quiet over the past 8 years then you don't seem to pay much attention to coverage of the floor.
Even mainstream news programs covered the outrage over the political appointments to the court and various regulatory agencies. At least one time a national debate erupted over the role and legality of filibustering.

Now you want to blame the Democrats who didn't have the votes to stop various appointments and made very clear arguments in opposition to the ones they didn't have the power to stop when it's really your ignorance of how our political system operates and how these agencies have a much greater effect on our every day rights than you realize that is to blame.

If you're talking about civil rights and decades of established law regarding our right to peacefully assemble without government intrusion, government eavesdropping, data mining, roaming wiretaps; or if you're talking about reversing decades of tax code to benefit corps that buy failing companies to circumvent tax obligations; then the sky did fall. It is falling. And these conversations arose as a direct result of Bush's actions, not before he was elected or in office.

Of course you can't engage in the discussion you sparked because you are wrong...and I have a hunch you knew you were wrong when you typed it but decided it would be too much fun to poke your fingers in a liberal's eye. Of course, this time it's different because Democrats are in power so your personal and unfounded attacks on them just appear infantile and ineffective.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Mojo_PeiPei

Factually incorrect? Democrats voted in favor of many of Bush's controversial or "illegal" initiatives, I recall the anger here about it. Your main problem here chet is your assumptions and how you are trying to corner me.

I never stated that congress is the end all be all of US citizen rights. I never even said that the dems in congress were solely the problem over the last eight years. The dems have had complete control of Congress for the last two years (with approval ratings lower than Shrubs), up until 2002 the Republicans arguably did not have a working majority, and in the instances of many of Bush's most controversial initiatives, Dems were more interested in retaining electability than standing up to Bush, and that is fact (except for house dems in the Iraq war case). A good example from 2008 is the FISA Amendment that still managed to get 20 democratic votes, and the poster children of the Presidential race Clinton and Barry took a heroic stand by voting present. What conviction and resolve...

I'll even take a step back and hold republicans culpable for their voting, the point is, that I was trying to make, was Bush did not do this alone. But I won't lie, I personally feel that for the amount of piss and vitriol Dems didn't do enough, if you don't agree thats cool.

And no I don't plan on pissing and moaning for the next four years as a result of Barry's election, I'm pulling for the guy because he is my president. Or in the very least I'll do my best to be open minded to his proposals. That's more of a chance than any of you ever gave Shrub.

Also its tough to engage in conversation when being addressed by someone which some pomp and contempt as yourself, news flash boss your shit stinks too.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

smooth

Yes, factually incorrect and ignorant.

The president makes appointments to agencies that the Congress does not get a vote in. Those agencies produce laws that the Congress has limited and sometimes no direct authority over.

Bush's administration and appointees are doing much of this alone.
If you'd think about what I wrote and try answering the questions in your stubborn mind, then you'd feel less attacked by my posts.
There is no discussion to be had here, I'm correcting your baseless conclusions. I don't particularly care if you change your mind over them because you're free to appear as ignorant as you prefer or talk to people who share the same limited knowledge you've demonstrated in your posts.

The contempt you're feeling is my contempt for ignorance and stupidity. I don't know you personally and frankly I would not want to meet you in person because I don't like engaging with people with lackluster reasoning abilities and that's what your posts have demonstrated to me over the years.


My claim couldn't be better demonstrated than by the fact you asking what Bush has done against the Constitution and me pointing out two recent articles claiming the administration is changing policies to allow police agencies to spy on and share information with federal authorities that runs afoul of our decades long protections against such behavior. But your response is to turn it into a partisan rant? and then push it to an anti-smooth's brilliant mind and points rant? and then start talking about my excrement? have fun with that...

some people don't know all that information, I don't expect them to. but if you're given the information you asked for and then start a different argument that's evidence to me you weren't really asking to find out information, you were asking what you thought was a rhetorical question in order to be an asshole. so get surprised when you get treated like an asshole.

you're mad at me because I realized sooner than you wanted me to that you were being an asshole?

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

roachboy

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Mojo_PeiPei

My initial question/comment was a jab at all of those on this forum who were so convinced that Emperor Bush was going to declare martial law and sodomize the American public with the constitution come election day. From there he was too rule on his throne for an eternity.

Obviously that was not the case as Barry was elected President. No military presence in America, after all that hub-bub about the Brigade that landed in October. No major election discrepancies or voter fraud, well except here in Minnesota coming from the Coleman/Franken race.

Just sort of funny to me after all the things that have been said about Bush here, and people are upset that Barry is getting the same treatment (even if it isn't warranted). Everything in the OP has been stated about Bush millions of times over the last six years, guess what folks its just another jackass over reacting. It's just a little funny that in this instance the table's have turned from Shrub being spurned and it's been all of a week, so my advice is relax, Barry's four years haven't even started.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

YaWhateva

The main problem with this though is that Bush has done many things to cause that sort of reaction from people. Obama has not even gotten into office yet. When Bush was elected, I certainly do not remember people attacking him before he even took office like they are doing to Obama.

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“If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly

"This is my United States of Whateva!"

Mojo_PeiPei

You're right, before 9-11 Bush was merely portrayed as a dim-witted Bumkin who couldn't speak a lick.

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To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

YaWhateva

Yes, but they weren't likening him to Hitler before he came into office. Or saying how they think he's a Marxist. Being called dumb and being likened to someone who killed millions of Jews is very different.

__________________
“If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly

"This is my United States of Whateva!"

Mojo_PeiPei

Perhaps its a reaction, or a product from the culture created over the last few years in how people responded/treated Bush?

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To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

dc_dux

I think the difference was that many of the criticisms (attacks) against Bush's more extreme policies and executive power abuses were coming from both the left and the center.

The attacks against Obama even before he has implemented a policy or taken any action are a right wing phenomena fueled by the talking heads.

IMO, they do it at their own peril of further alienating those in the center who voted for Obama with the hope of bringing the country together in a positive way.
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I also think its a bit disingenuous to say it is a reaction to or byproduct of the culture created over the last few years with how people treated Bush.

How quickly you forget the Clinton bashing from the day he entered office until the day he left.

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"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire