roachboy

this is a report done for al-jazeera about a palin rally in ohio---the location is noted at the beginning and at the end of the clip.

just watch:



i am not entirely sure what to make of this, once past the initial "what the fuck?"

i don't think any of these folk are evil or even particularly stupid--i think they live inside of particular information streams and assemble images of the world and explanations for those images entirely from within those streams. if your information is fucked up and you operate inside that space without relativizing it, you can't help but draw fucked up conclusions. it would happen to most anyone---assuming that you operated in the world in such a way as to either not know about or exclude other information streams, so that this functioned like an environment rather than as a choice. it *really* makes me wonder what passes for information in far right evangelical circles out there.

it is obvious that palin was chosen for the mc-cain ticket because she articulates something of the worldview that these folk share---so stoking the anger and fear that seems to be at its core is a deliberate choice on the part of the campaign.

this does not seem to me to be a strategy that's about winning the election--this is about something else.

and the political space they're playing to has little to do with economic conservatism, little to do with old-school patrician conservatism, nothing at all to do with classical conservatism--this is an ugly product of the blurring out of the line between fundamentalist protestant ideology, hyper-nationalism, and racism---and fear, which is the motor of most things in populist rightwing ideology and has been for a very long time (and this not just in the states).

the mobilization of this population is a direct consequence of the transformation of the right, particularly during it's last period of opposition under clinton. it's sources go back to the reconfiguration of the right across the 1970s.

it seems to me that this constituency is at this point more or less poujadisme redux: the ideology that appears to be mobilizing these folk--and worse the information contexts that are symmterical with this---amounts to a virulent, nasty petit-bourgeois fascism.

i hesitated to post this, but there have now been enough clips in various threads here and available elsewhere from different parts of the country to demonstrate that this is not really just about these folk in ohio in particular. they are representative of the kind of movement that the far right of the conservative coalition, embodied by sarah palin in many ways, and of the state that it is being encouraged to work itself up into.

so the questions:

a) the palin nomination appears to be geared toward this population. it is now totally obvious that she was not chosen because she had any real hope of attracting moderates or independents--she was chosen because she speaks to the populist far right.
do you think that is accurate?
if it is, what the strategy behind it?

because if the above is correct, it seems a totally counterintuitive way to run a campaign for president of a united states.

b) if the republicans loose in november, what do you think they'll do with a constituency like this as a significant aspect of their base?

this has come up in other threads, but to repose it here:
it looks like the period of cross-over for this hyper-nationalist, xenophobic stuff began right after 9/11/2001 and ebbed a little into the second bush term. the "war on terror" enabled it and the fiasco in iraq did it in. for a while, this was the mainstream discourse about the world (remember? you were there....) the base for it was laid by 8 years of organizational and media building by the right under clinton.

if that discourse has lost it's traction, but it remains the central ideological linkage to this population, do you think it'll prevent the republicans from being able to retool their politics?

because if mc-cain looses, it seems to me that the republicans are going to have to reconsider the way they frame themselves, and so retool their language.


aside: this is ugly shit. i think it astonishing that the mc-cain campaign is irresponsible enough to encourage this, to stoke it, to play with it, to use it.

__________________
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spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Tully Mars

This is exactly the type of petri dish Timothy McVeigh grew from. Eventually someone's going to get hurt.

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flstf

I don't know roachboy. I have acquaintances and even a few members of my family who are not so different from the people in that video. There must be something in the human makeup that causes some to become very insecure and therefore closed minded. It is not enough to evaluate each candidate's policies and prefer one over the other but the other guy must also be vilified. It is not enough to believe that one is going to heaven because they are Christian but everyone else must also be anti-God and therefore going to hell. It is easy to convince them that someone of a different race with an alien sounding name could be anti-American or even the anti-Christ.

There is an inclination to view things as black or white with little gray and viewpoints get driven to the extreme. There are those on the left with similar polarized views but the religious right probably outnumbers them by a large margin. I believe Palin was brought on board to attract fundamentalists since McCain was not so strong with them but also to attract the mad Hillary voters and give them another reason to vote against Obama who they believe stole the nomination.

I don't think the Republicans have much more of a strategy in fanning the flames other than to win the election. I imagine many are embarressed by these voters racism and hate but a vote is a vote. If the McCain campaign doesn't do more to tone down the hate then history may look back on this election and compare it to the hate and fear of the McCarthy era.

ratbastid

I don't quite know what "populist" means in this sense. This seems pretty "out-there fringe", to me.

smooth

populist doesn't mean popular or even mainstream. it's just a political discourse that pits "people" against the system or those in charge.
it's the basis of the maverick claim, that they will rid washington of the political order and institute change that reflects common values rather than those of the elites in power.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Willravel

Calling someone stupid brings back being very young and belittling others on the playground, but that doesn't mean that as an adult it has no definition. Of course they're stupid. If you allow yourself to exist in a limited information stream, you're going to become stupid, not to mention it takes stupidity not to question a stream.

I have no qualms about using the "s" word in this situation. It seems perfectly apropos.
A populist, neoconservative soccer mom being used to rally the right? The strategy seems overt. McCain is the "maverick" (lol) that spits in the face of the party, and Palin is the spokesperson for "Insane Right Weekly", the November issue. It's a one-two punch. Er, rather it was meant to be a one-two punch. It turns out McCain's not a maverick anymore, and Sarah Palin is as dumb as a stump. At least that's my objective opinion.
I'm scared that this constituency even exists. In fact, it shouldn't exist. Each and every single one of these racist, xenophobic idiots should be attacked by the right and the left collectively.

And McCain chuckling and saying "Nah, he's not Arab" isn't good enough. He should have said, "And what the fuck is wrong with Arabs?"

Tully Mars

Everyone has a right to their opinions and free speech. Of course when that speech turns to hate speech it's not acceptable. Yelling out "KILL HIM!" is completely unacceptable and illegal.

No shit.

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guyy

I think the answer to question a is that Palin was a mistake. The thinking was that McCain had appeal to independent and crossover voters, but didn't excite the base. Add Palin and voila! a majority. Only it didn't work out that way.

As for b, i think an army of petit-bourgeois fascist types would be useful to the right when they go to war with the next administration. With Democratic majorities in congress, the war may not be as effective as their campaign against Clinton, but they will certainly try.

Cernunnos

The majority of my maternal family is comprised of devout Christians with strong ties to the military and an unconcealed disdain for Muslims and other minority religious groups in the United States. Instead of questioning authority, they defer to it under the belief that it is patriotic, especially during wartime. Basically, there is a cringe inducing lack of critical thought.

I regularly receive anti-Muslim propaganda forwarded by members of my family. They are unable to rationally separate fact from fiction and vote based on gut instinct, an instinct which is propelled by political vitriol and outright lies, formed out of xenophobic suspicion.

It is truly saddening that some individuals are incapable of independent thought, accepting blatant propaganda as truth without so much as a minute of effort taken towards researching the facts. I am appalled at the intellectual state of this nation. It is in seemingly perpetual vegetation.

dc_dux

This is pretty ugly as well.....Ohio resident named Mike Lunsford who has hung an effigy of Barack Obama in his front yard....."only white christians should run the country"


the effigy even has a jewish star to include all the enemies of this guy's vision of Christian America!

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Willravel

Marginalizing people is just as protected by free speech as saying Obama's Arab or whatever. It's okay for both parties to say, "Oh, and these people are racist morons..." (albeit more poetically) and still not be breaching the First Amendment. It's what they should be doing. If the racists want a political party, let them make their own. That's their freedom.

flstf

dc_dux, There is not much they can do to prevent someone from exercising their right to free speech in their yard but I can't understand why they allow such displays at their rallys. Comparing Obama to a mass murderer cannot be all that good for their campaign although I guess it could have been worse by comparing him to Hitler instead. Maybe I have it wrong and rally organizers don't try to control the signs at their rallys.

ottopilot

These Harlem Obama supporters demonstrate a unique political clarity and sensibility.



This is thread is fun. We get to take snapshots of society and make blanket assumptions.

What kind of "populist" should we call these informed voters (except for the one McCain supporter)? Average Obama supporters?

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Willravel

Otto, you're not a racist so the thread really isn't about you.

Tully Mars

How do we know what "The First Dude" is seeing or saying here?

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flstf

Otto, that audio is kind of fun and making fun of peoples ignorance is not hateful like some of the Republican rally examples. I did see some examples of tee shirts that say "McCain called his wife a cunt" and "Sarah Palin is a cunt" but I'm not sure if they are permitted at rallys when discovered. These are of course depraved but I doubt they inspire many Obama supporters to hate and fear them. These are probably some of the same ones who were calling Hillary names.


-----Added 19/10/2008 at 07 : 35 : 48-----
You are right, as far as I know the front is blank. I would hope that the organizers/security would not allow these types of displays at either party's rallys.

roachboy

otto---i assume that if you had any possibility of offering a substantive counter-argument that you'd have done it. but instead, you offer a typically ludicrous clip, a vague statement about the op--and nothing else.

it's clear that you don't like the style i use, and it should be equally clear that i really don't care what you like or don't like.

how about an actual counter-argument from you that bears on the claim that the op is about.

put up or shut up.

it's time.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

dc_dux

Two republican congressmen were at their best today at a McCain rally in NC:
Is it just me or is saying "liberals hate real Americans" kinda stupid?
-----Added 20/10/2008 at 07 : 14 : 53-----
I guess it makes sense at this point of desperation to incite the feeding frenzy and say what the "people" want to hear...particularly following earlier comments made by a Republican Congresswoman from Minn who said this weekend, "Senator Obama and his wife Michelle may hold anti-American views" and they, along with liberals in Congress who share those "anti-American" views should be investigated.

The silence from McCain on these latest comments by surrogates is deafening.

__________________
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Poppinjay

Nice. From my home county no less. Really makes me proud.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

roachboy

this is obvious an important sector of the inverted world of the far right:


Evangelicals despair at prospect of Democratic victory | World news | The Guardian

if it is the case that evangelical protestant churches are processing an obama victory in near apocalyptic terms, at least something of the ugly and frankly kinda unnerving material that's been surfacing from these conservative rallies becomes at once more understandable and more strange--understandable in that it connects information stream to populist political discourse to outcomes---strange in that the outcomes of fear and racism and all the rest seem to sit at such cross purposes with the notions of xtianity---which many of these bizarre-o evangelicals claim to monopolize.

you could say that some of this poujadisme is a direct result of these fine christian soldiers facing defeat, of their inability to deal with shifting political fortunes which follows from the admixture of fundamentalist protestant beliefs and the political---and that perhaps this is yet another demonstration of exactly why the christian coalition was, is and will remain until it goes away not only a bad idea, but a dangerous organization.

this is not to say that evangelicals should not mobilize politically---but rather that the tactic particular to these groups over the past 20 years of using the pulpit as a stage for political agitation is a bad one. a very bad one.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

filtherton

STEVE HOLT!!!!

Sorry.

People do seem to act stupider when they feel threatened. Since feeling perpetually threatened is a necessary condition for subscribing to religious right ideology, it makes sense that they have continued to act as if they were threatened, despite the fact that "their people" ran shit for most of the last 8 years.

They will only get uglier if Obama pulls this off.

dc_dux

What I would love to see Obama do shortly after taking office is to go on Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc. and say:

"look, I know we disagree on many policy issues and I encourage you to focus on those policy differences with your callers and guests ....but will you work with me on toning down the rhetoric that breeds contempt and hatred and help me bring the country together as much as we can?

Put these guys on the spot and see how they respond.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Tully Mars

I like to see who ever gets elected do something like this but I don't see it happening. It doesn't fit in the "L, H & O" business model. The reason they stay employed is they tell a % of the public what they want to hear. In turn the have a standard audience they can count on which means they sell advertising. If they were to do what you're suggesting they'd lose a ton of their audience and a ton of money. It would be like asking Howard Stern to stop acting like a jackass. Acting like a jackass is where all his incomes comes from.

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dc_dux

I agree it would be a profit killer....but arent these they guys who preach the right wing mantra of "country first" on a daily basis?....So call them on it!

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
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Tully Mars

Best of luck with that. These are the same guys who said you can't say anything negative about Bush simply because he's POTUS after spending eight years calling Clinton everything but human. If you have any thought that these folks are not hypocrites I suggest you're either not paying attention or are simply delusional.

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Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

ottopilot

I think most of the mainstream conservative talk hosts would be happy to invite Obama on and discuss all of those points. I see inflammatory rhetoric coming from both sides and I'd like to see an honest airing-out of the issues from all perspectives. They would jump at the chance to have such discussions. I don't see signs of a sincere willingness to "reach out" from either side, but the boost in ratings would be a no-brainer for the evil capitalists.

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dc_dux

otto...I have never heard Limbaugh, Hannity or O'Reilly have an "honest airing out of the issues" with a Democrat or liberal guest but I'm not a regular listener or viewer.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

abaya

I have just as much of a problem with freaky evangies as you do, rb--however, I have to step in and say that the majority of the young evangelicals that I know (around 30 and younger) are more concerned with social justice than they are with moral conservatism, and almost all of them that I know are voting Obama. Just a sidenote to the conversation. These moderate and even liberal evangelicals (yes, there is such a thing) don't get mentioned in the news, but they are there, and I respect them for their vote.

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for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
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ottopilot

Have you listened to liberal talk lately? Air America (what's left of it)? They dish it out in piles too. Being fair to the opposition is not what their listeners want. It would have to be a special series moderated with ground-rules for this to happen. It's a pipe-dream.

Regarding honesty on the issues... I think the Bill O'Reilly interview with Obama was a reasonable exchange.

__________________
"It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo

roachboy

abaya---i know that evangelical does not denote a monolithic entity---the more public far right face of the movement is a direct result of the work done by the christian coalition under ralph reed during the late 1980s-1990s.

to wit, wikipedia style:
Ralph E. Reed, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

so there's a reason that far right politics and evangelical protestants tend to get grouped together--and making that linkage is still an impressive organizational accomplishment, not matter what you think of the consequences of it in other areas.

i too passed through one of these organizations in my wayward youth. but it wasn't until circumstances too curious to be detailed here landed me at the "word of life bible institute" marooned on some island in upstate new york that i started to get a sense of how the reactionary politics<-->evangelical thing worked. it seemed predicated on an abuse of power on the part of the people with strange ideas about hairstyle who were in the pulpits--word of life were among the organizations that funded anita bryant's anti-gay people campaign, which was a kind of foreshadowing of things to come.

fact is that there are ALOT of organizations that are populated by folk for whom there is no break between a literal interpretation of the bible and politics that are classically poujadiste.
it is also the case that the xitan soldier thing sits in a strange relationship with the message of the gospels, and that it typically gets turned into an outside (the xtian souljah)/inside (love and all) split.

at the same time, one of my oldest and dearest friends was an evangelical preacher. he runs a halfway house for men with substance abuse issues now. he materially helps people in often really fucked up situations more than almost all the academic leftist types i know together. and tempermentally, his politics run to the left, until the statements about politics get explicit, and then things flip (if you cite gramsci at him without telling him it's gramsci, he'll be in agreement: but tell him who that was and...less these days, though.)

and it stands to reason that there'd be splits within the evangelical protestant movements that double those in catholicism between quite socially left lay people and more reactionary officialdom, and that this can play out on a church-by-church basis , one running in direction a, another in b....but since we're talking about the responses to the change in political fortunes of the far-right coalition that the republicans have been in bed with since the end of the reagan period, and the inability of elements within that coalition to deal with those changing fortunes, i figured the frame was tight enough that it wasn't necesssary to start with the acknowledgments of diffuseness on the ground.

like whitehead said, in nature everything is ragged at the edges. only signifiers make the world seem sharply bounded.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

smooth

That's also one instance where Obama actually did ask O'Reilly to maintain journalistic standards. I believe he also indicated that he couldn't fault O'Reilly for his reporting so far.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Poppinjay

Just an FYI from somebody in the industry, Air America is no longer in fiduciary jeopardy. It's been bought out and is now headed by former Clear Channel bigwig Bennet Zier. The pockets are deep.

Also, the most popular hosts on Air America stations, Ed Schultz and Stephanie Miller are actually syndicated by Jones Networks, not Air America. And they do quite well.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

ottopilot

Thanks for the FYI... I really like Ed Schultz.

__________________
"It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo

smooth

and Rachel Maddow has her own hourly show on MSNBC, so it appears as though the Air America "experiment" was by reasonable measures successful.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

girldetective

Ths shit is ugly, and it stinks. I dont believe republicans will change their tune with this population, they will build it. I dont think they will reframe or retool their language. I think they will kindle the flames in a quiet way when a Democrat is elected and their constituency will ensure the fire burns.

I also did not appreciate the "Obama supporter" who said he feared that O would be killed if elected. I think it is just another fear that people can use. I also dont think standing by the side of a road upcountry is the way gain support from these people. I think it might just inflame them. Walking among them and having conversations though, that might help. So would education and the larger thought that they are part of a big world.

Go O!

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smooth

the last two guys who walked among them were assaulted, so I'm not sure that's a good idea

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

flstf

Two weeks to go and in the last 2 days we have already received 3 anti-Obama robo calls here in southern Ohio. It is probably going to get worse as election day approaches. I wish there was a do not call list we could sign up for. My wife and I already voted for Obama a few days ago.

Derwood

it's amazing to me that Ohio is polling so favorably for Obama. I live in a pretty "blue" part of the state and there are nothing but McCain lawn signs and bumper stickers as far as the eye can see

ottopilot

Even more populist ugliness

Campaign workers attacked
Galax Gazette Online

Mannequin of Sarah Palin hanging by a noose from the roof of a West Hollywood home
cbs2.com - Halloween Palin Prop Sparks Controversy In WeHo (includes video report)

__________________
"It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo

Poppinjay

Obama hung in effigy:
Obama effigy hanged on Oregon campus - Race & ethnicity - MSNBC.com

Michelle Malken asks if anybody could imagine the shitstorm were Obama hung in effigy, but of course republicans don't do that kind of thing.


Again. But we already knew about that.

The one that gets me is Malkin. She RAGES over things like the Palin effigy in a tone that supposes her own party would NEVER do that.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet