pan6467

Saw this and waned to see what others thought. For those who say "misunderstood", what would you say if a white judge did this? Or a Hispanic judge?

It's messed up and the judge had no right to do this. It was an abuse of power and this judge should be taken off the bench. This is not the way our system is supposed to work.

I'd say the same thing regardless of who the judge was and what group he kept in and kicked out.

<embed src="http://www.liveleak.com/e/e1f_1207000830" width="450" height="370" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" scale="showall" name="index"></embed>

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

silent_jay

Meh, I don't think he's racist, but this story just doesn't seem that big of a deal to me, there are bigger issues in the world today than some white people getting asked to leave a courtroom so the judge can talk to the black people in the courtroom. Just doesn't seem worth getting worked up over.

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

ratbastid

I guess I don't quite understand what the problem is.

Is it that he kicked non-blacks out of the courtroom for a brief time?

Is it that he lectured blacks on how to behave?

Is it some other nuance I missed?

Exactly what part of this are you objecting to, pan? I'm not saying there's nothing objectionable, I'm just unclear specifically what you're referring to.

Shauk

he's probably tired of seeing black people come in to his courtroom and perpetuate the stereotype that blacks are the crime ridden scum of the US.

it's a self fulfilling prophecy as long as they buy in to the hip hop culture.

maybe he just felt like it was time to give them the speech their parents never did because he was tired of having his pride slighted every time he had to sentence one of his own race to a sentence.

if anything that would want to make me come up with all kinds of alternative sentencing options since we know hard time doesn't do shit to rehabilitate convicts, but thats another topic altogether.

host

<h2>pan...could you shut the fuck up...just for today? Sheesh, you're recent posts are an affront to my sensibilities....I guess you showed mixedmedia, didn't you.....just for today....okay?</h2>

This one made me tear up, a little....things could have turned out so differently, so much nicer than they have ended up!
<cenetr><img src="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/04/03/us/04martin06-600.jpg"></center>

dc_dux

An article helps explain the judge's actions:
Based on the story, I applaud the judge for what he did....after court business was completed.

But I agree with Host....I do have to wonder why one feels a need to search out stories about black public figures...and say its not about race?

Context matters!

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

mixedmedia

Are you saying he's exhibiting racism towards black people by singling them out?

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

ratbastid

Wow. This really is a non-story. The only story here is the bias and prejudice of those who want it to be a story.

Ustwo

Delicious irony.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

dc_dux

Pan.....an abuse of power....wtf?

You seriously want him thrown off the bench for this?

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

mixedmedia

I agree. And I was a little suspicious when I saw the two 'man on the street' clips of commentary shown after the story and they were both on the same side of this issue.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

pan6467

It's not about race (I already stated I would feel the same regardless of race) and I got this in my e mail today. This is about abuse of power.

OK Host...... let's see: was what the judge did segregation?

Why did he not lecture ALL there that day?

Was it an injustice, intentional or not?
Was it ignorance or stupidity?

Was he judging by the color of skin and not by the content of character?

I would argue on this day we SHOULD be addressing racial problems. He sacrificed his life to do so and it would be unconscionable and disrespectful not to address racial problems on this day. IMHO.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

silent_jay

If it's not about race then why is the thread title 'Racist Judge or Misunderstood'? Your own title made it about race pan, even your first post made it about race when you asked what the reaction would be if a white judge or a hispanic judge did this, so yeah you made it about race no one else.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Willravel

Why would white people need to be in a courtroom when a black judge wants to discuss black issues with black people? Answer: they wouldn't.

Case dismissed.

silent_jay

In other news Paris Hilton took a shit..........

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

samcol

Host, your post is totally inappropriate.

__________________
It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize.

Jinn

You can say it and you can say it again but it doesn't make it true.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Ustwo

Would all the African Americans please leave the room, we have white things to talk about, feel free to use the water fountain, just don't put your lips on it.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Willravel

No, not exactly. When you explain why they were asked to leave, because the judge was essentially going to chew out the black people for not getting their race in shape, it makes sense. He was honestly taking an Obama moment to say "get your shit together". There's no reason for white people to hear that. None.

host

Dr. King gave this speech 40 years and one day ago. I think he knew what was coming...

He was stabbed, near fatally, and then he was shot and killed. I'm asking pan to stop on this day of remembering, of quiet contemplation. It strikes me as the right thing for me to do

Strange Famous

A black man, in America, by definition CANNOT be a racist.

He may be prejudiced, or a bigot, but racism as a term implies the exercise of power against another race: there isnt much scope for that when your ancestors were slaves to the people who are now your neighbours, and even 75 years ago national newspapers and most police would call you "nigger" - when in living memory you couldnt sit on a bus if a white person was standing.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Ustwo

Actually I have NO problem with what he did, but were a white judge to do this, you know damn well what the fall out would be.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

host

Could you stop, for one fucking day, with "the persecuted white man" schtick of yours? Could everybody??? Just for one day !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can a mod change the thread title to the "BITCHING PERSECUTED WHITE MAN THREAD"?

Ustwo

rac·ism Audio Help /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rey-siz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Do NOT make me use Inigo Montoya again.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

host

Could you stop, for one fucking day, with "the persecuted white man" schtick of yours? Could everybody??? Just for one day !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can a mod change the thread title to the "BITCHING PERSECUTED WHITE MAN THREAD"?

Willravel

Would you be a part of that fallout? I know I wouldn't.

Oh, no a black man can be racist. It's called "reverse racism" when it deals with white people and it's surprisingly common. In addition to that, black racism against latinos is a massive problem here. I've had to repeatedly deal with it in the work place at three different jobs.

Strange Famous

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,' it means
just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

_

Racism is not something decided by vulgar & self righteous displays of cold logic. Its what it feels like to - for example - not be allowed to sit down on a bus because of the colour of your skin.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

samcol

Quoted for absolute truth.

__________________
It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize.

Ustwo

No, not if there was something resembling a good reason. On the other hand I'm sure Jesse (yes host I saw the picture) would be happy to cry fowl, as long as there were cameras around, that blacks were asked to leave a court room, thats segregation after all.

While I find hosts indignation amusing, I find his picture ironic. The most prominent person in that picture is not Dr. King, but is the most well known shyster when it comes to exploiting his race for personal gain.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

SecretMethod70

Yeah, I'm really at a loss here.

First, we're supposed to accept that there is no instutitional racism keeping blacks at a disproportionate disadvantage to the rest of the population, and therefore there's no reason for Rev. Wright (and many others) to be upset about how black people are treated in society today.

Then, in one of your posts, you mentioned Bill Cosby in a positive light, which would seem to me that you are impressed by black leaders who are willing to say what you seem to believe: that black people are the cause of their own problems, and that they need to stop being upset at things like institutional racism and instead focus more on taking control of their lives and raising their children better. (Nevermind that Rev. Wright also preaches that, he just doesn't ignore institutional racism either.)

Now, you show us an example of a black man in a position of authority who wanted to try and use that position to encourage some of the black population to turn their lives around, saying "You will have to turn it around, and it's not the white man. You are the one committing these crimes."

So I just don't understand. It's racist when someone mentions that blacks aren't totally in control of their position in life because of institutional racism. It's racist now, when a black man tries to use his common identity to tell other blacks that they need to take control of their lives. You're beginning to run dangerously close to the "omg acknowledging race is racism!" attitude.

I'm really just at a loss here...because it's very clear that your mindset is so fundamentally different that it is literally impossible (and I'm not exaggerating here) to have any conversation with you in which you would come any closer to understanding the mindset of any of the people you disagree with on this issue. If you'll forgive the analogy, it's a bit like trying to speak rationally to a creationist about the importance of evidence on which to base assumptions, and their repeated response is that their evidence is that "it's in the bible." It's a totally different language, and no amount of wasted air will get them to understand that "it's in the bible" is not valid evidence for anything.

Most importantly....seriously, there's all this other stuff going on in the world and you feel that this is newsworthy?

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

mixedmedia

I think SF is referring to the literal definition of racism which refers to systemic discrimination as opposed the way we use the word colloquially to describe racial bias at the group or individual level.

That said, let's cool down with the personal requests and discuss the OP unless we have pretty much run the gamut at this point, in which case we can all go talk about something else.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Jinn

In order for me to believe this judge is "racist", I would have to believe that he either thinks white people are lesser than black people, or that he actively believes white people are the source of his problem(s).

I see no evidence to support either of these conclusions.

What I see is a judge exercising his right to have a personal opinion. Judges often offer their "personal opinion" of the defendant or his actions AFTER the verdict and sentencing has occurred, and I find no problem with that. It is every free citizen's right to express their opinion to whomever they wish. So long as it was clear that this was his opinion and not his ruling as a figure of authority, he has done nothing wrong.

The fact that he asked certain members of the courtroom to leave BEFORE chastising the defendants is an act of responsibility, in my opinion. In some cases, it is better to offer constructive criticism in private, or in the company of peers - it has the potential to be more effective.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

ratbastid

Really? You think?

Let's say the tables were HONESTLY turned. Let's say Europe was populated by blacks, and Africa by whites. Let's say America was founded by black Europeans, who imported white slaves to work. Let's say that black American majority fought a civil war, and black Abraham Lincoln freed all the white slaves.

Then let's say that over the next hundred-someodd years the whites gradually gained civil rights, but that it had come, long the turn of the 21st Century, to the point where the prisons were vastly fuller of white inmates than black, a few token whites had prominent positions in business and government, but it was still largely a bastion of black power. Let's say that poverty and crime were disproportionately higher in the white community, education was worse, and there were all sorts of invisible barriers to white entry into successful society.

Then let's say a white judge--one of the relatively few to make it--closed down his courtroom after the close of official business one day to give a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" talk to the white folks in his courtroom.

You're telling me you know damn well what the fallout of all that would be?

Because if that's not the question you're asking, then you're not FAIRLY turning the tables, you're just saying "them durn minorities got rights we majority folks don't". Which is a hysterical thing for a white dentist to say.

Willravel

rat, something I've slowly had to admit to in being white is that I'll never really understand what it means to be black. I can empathize and sympathize all I want, but it seems that I can't really put myself in their shoes.

Ustwo, why are black teeth bad and white teeth good?!

dksuddeth

This should be the issue right above. A courtroom is about justice, you know....that blind lady. no religion, creed, gender, and COLOR.

If a white judge had done this, there would probably be a bit more of an uproar. Since it wasn't and since will seems to think that white people have no business in discussing how black judges deal with black defendants, then it will continue to further divide people. Ain't america grand?

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

samcol

That's not really relevant at all. He said if it was a white judge the situation would of been much different, which is true considering the state of race relations totday. Your so called reversing the situation is actually the exact same as the OP's scenario.

__________________
It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize.

ratbastid

Indeed. It's laughable to simply say "if a white person did that blahdy blah blah" without at least some ATTEMPT at getting what the world must be like for black people. That's really at the heart of all the race nonsense that's been coming up the last month or so. There's NO understanding of what the world must be like for people of different backgrounds.

dksuddeth

host, what do you have against white people? why do you hate white people so much?

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

ratbastid

sam, you have intuited my gist precisely. My problem with the question is, there's no interest in WHY the situation is different. And no wondering if maybe the situation SHOULD be different. My point is, the only fair way to say "if a white judge blahdy blah blah" would be if the entire history of our hemisphere was backwards. That would be FAIR. Otherwise, the question is UNFAIR.

Willravel

Rat, it's not for a lack of trying, though. I do attempt to put myself in their shoes. I make an honest effort to empathize and then make my decision based on that. Still, it's okay for me to admit that, despite my best efforts, I may not understand the full scope of the issue because I'm white.

You're talking about the decision making process. The judge emptied the courtroom to read the black people the riot act not to render judgment.