dksuddeth

kevlar doesn't help when you're lined up face forward against the wall waiting to be shot in the back of the head. kevlar is protective, not defensive. defense requires an ability to protect yourself with force. Protection is nothing more than having something between yourself and the danger.

I read lots of stories about violent encounters with police. 8 out of 10 times, the perp usually ends up dead. if 20% is reasonable to you, then i'm worried.

not shanks, knives....and guns. Just earlier this year there was a big story about how they found an actual .25 caliber handgun in an inmates cell. He got it from a prison guard, not stole it, but it was given to him. and I compared prisons to schools because you recommended fences, gates, and guards. just like a prison.

don't be foolish and take a statement so literally. campuses might have police, usually unarmed police, but as I've pointed out numerous times (of which people still don't 'get it') that the educational facility staff is not going to be held liable if you are killed on campus, while at the same time denying you the means to protect yourself. In other words, you're fucked either way. you can't carry for defense and the college doesn't have to provide you with security.

no, you're trying to redefine words you don't like. again.

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Challah

I will concede that an armed campus has the potential to occasionally reduce the impact of a shooting. Earlier in the thread, I explained why the cons outweigh the pros. That still stands. I'd like to point out that the third example you provided does not belong in this thread because that shooting took place in a business and the John Wayne of that example was the owner of said business. You're probably correct about the guns used in the majority of these shootings, but arming campuses is not a logical reaction to this truth.

"Conservative" can mean a lot of different things, but I don't see how my comments could be considered conservative. I don't know what my major political influences are. The insanity of an armed campus is what influenced me to post in this thread.

Willravel

Guns don't work if you're on your knees facing the other direction. Guns only work when you are on the offensive.
That wasn't my point at all. do you think there's a 20% survival rate (a percentage you pulled out of thin air?) when someone shoots themselves in the head? No? That's my point.
One gun in the history of American prisons? And it was due to a corrupt guard? Why even mention that? Lighting is more likely to strike you as you win the lottery.

Do you think a guard would have given Cho guns so he could murder people?
How often are police unarmed on campus? What is the exact percentage? When I was in elementary school, middle school and high-school (not to mention 3 different colleges), all had police, and all the police had firearms.
We've had this debate before and I've won. I'm willing to have it again, but it'd be easier for you to just go read a dictionary. Look up defensive then offensive.

analog

You folks want to take this back to a discussion, or keep micromanaging the reply to every last line of each other's posts?

Because really, there's no discussion here anymore.

Anyone with something fresh to say? Please jump in and help resurrect this thread.

Baraka_Guru

I think the the prospect of a school shooting pales in comparison to the prospect of such things as suicide, sexual assault, and the murder of a "loved one," especially within the context of allowable concealed firearms at a college or university.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Daniel_

Students in my experience are more likely to drink and use drugs than the general population.

Students are more likely to get extreme states of emotion and belief.

The number of people hurt by guns varies in proportion to the number of guns available.

Very emotional people are more likely to do more regretable things.

I would not want students to have guns.

Hell, I wouldn't trust most of them with a Nerf Gun or a pointy stick.

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Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
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