SpottedThinker

I've been writing a review of the movie Outsourced (posted here on it in the entertainment section as well). If you haven't seen it it's the story of Todd, a Seattle worker/manager at a call center for novelty products (a lot of which are patriotic). He is told his whole department is being replaced and that he is going to have to go to India to train the new guys. So, he does, and a romantic comedy about cultural misunderstandings tells the story nicely. For being a sweet, non-confrontational movie it's really made me think a ton about outsourcing lately, and I've been discussing it with people. I've noticed this, for instance: people feel fine about outsourcing if it's other countries that are outsourcing their labor to the US, but they hate it if we're outsourcing our work somewhere else. Anyway, my feelings are that money should flow freely, forget about the borders. What are your feelings on the subject of outsourcing?

n0nsensical

It's a sign of American society fracturing into haves and have-nots. The haves are the masters of capital. They naturally favor outsourcing because of cheaper labor => higher profits. The have-nots are everyone else, the people who are, or were, responsible for the actual production. Our ballooning trade deficits with Asia are one symptom. The fall of the dollar is another.

Something has to give, either society must reduce consumption or increase native production as we export money for goods. Money only has value as long as there is the expectation that it can be traded for something of tangible value. On the gold standard this was simple. (Although, the high value of gold is still a mystery to me.) On the "US Treasury Bond standard", it's a little more complicated. As the dollar loses value due to excessive foreign debts we lose the ability to trade for goods and services. Outsourcing becomes more difficult until the whole system collapses: foreign production is useless because we can't trade for it and we no longer have equal domestic production.

We have had a major advantage up to this point which is that we were much more developed than the rest of the world (except maybe Europe) and didn't have to deal with nasty wars destroying everything and everyone (like Europe). At some point they're going to catch up though, and having an entirely short-sighted population and leadership doesn't help matters.

Willravel

It's actually brilliant on the part of corporations. Make education available in third world countries and then reap the rewards by having a cheaper, yet equally qualified workforce. Bravo, sick bastards.

flstf

It has always surprised me that the one thing that requires excellent communication between companies and their customers (tech support) should be outsourced to people who can barely speak English. I wonder if they are doing this on purpose so people just get frustrated and hang up. They can still advertise that they offer support 24/7.

Ustwo

If your job can be done by someone on the otherside of the world over the phone, find a new job.

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Willravel

So because you have to be there to scratch teeth people like researchers and teachers are SOL? Sounds pretty insane.

n0nsensical

Okay, who's going to hold the pity party when YOUR job can be done by a robot and someone on the other side of the world with a remote control? Don't assume that any job can't be replaced; I think society would be a lot better off if we make a decent plan for the day that happens instead of extracting money from it while we can and leaving our problems for a future generation (see global warming).

Ustwo

Eh you lost me after 'a decent plan' and how it relates to outsourcing.

Anyways, much of my potential work already gets outsourced to Pakistan (heard of invisalign?) Its a crap product so I don't do it, but its still costing me money.

Its a global economy, either you compete in it or become isolationist and get surpassed.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Willravel

Global economy doesn't mean it's the same price to live here as it is to live in India. Actually it's more expensive to live in the SF Bay area than most of the rest of the world. My living expenses would make people very rich in Missouri. That's the reality. My work is worth more here because everything is worth more here.

aceventura3

Competition is one of the greatest motivators in existence. If Americans are the best at what they do, they don't have to worry about outsourcing. Best is defined by the one who pays the bills.

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Seaver

So would you blame a company if they left SF for Missouri?

The company hasn't moved because they have a harder time finding qualified and properly educated employees in the region I imagine. What Ustwo was implying was one needs to get an education and qualifications to which makes him/her nonreplaceable by someone in a 3rd world country.

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Willravel

If they have customers in SF, then they charge SF prices and have to pay SF bills. If they move to MO, then they'll have to drastically lower their prices and thus would be in the same situation, only with less money earned and spent.

SpottedThinker

Actually this is something I learned from Outsourced the movie: English is the official language of the Indian government. Assuming you're speaking of Indians, they can speak the language quite well, as well as we can, only they speak it differently. That's why we outsourced there to begin with, there's a large labor force that already has mastery of the language. Imagine if our customer support was outsourced to the English countryside - those people are terribly difficult to understand, yet technically they speak the English language better than I do as they are closer to the source.

inBOIL

To let the money flow freely would cause enormous economic upheaval, in both countries. In the poor country, the extra wealth would be held by the lucky few who can put themselves in a position to make more than the general worker, while inflation will quickly negate the increaced wages of the majority. In the rich country, unemployment will lead to a lower standard of living, with workers earning lower wages (as wages in the two countries will tend to equalize). Of course, once the economies of the two countries are roughly equal, the damage caused by free trade will disappear, but if the equalizing process is allowed to take place without adequate supervision and intervention, it will only benefit company owners and shareholders at the expense of workers.