Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Politics


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-15-2007, 07:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
Please touch this.
 
Halx's Avatar
 
Owner/Admin
Location: Manhattan
Your thoughts on President 2.0

By "President 2.0" I mean Barack Obama's campaign strategy of embracing the internet and all it has to offer. He's got his own social networking site (my.barackobama.com) and he's got a footprint on all the other established ones already (Facebook, YouTube, Flickr). The strategy seems to be reaching people it normally wouldn't and is getting people more involved in the campaign than I've personally seen before.

My mental image of a traditional presidential campaign is like a trench war with a dugout base of operations from which dirt and propaganda fly. This particular campaign as a suspiciously empowering effect on those who choose to get involved. Traditionally, it's been, "Just vote for me and I'll handle the rest." This new approach seems to really give people a sense of responsibility.

Howard Dean tried the blogs in 2004, but he had 2 things working against him. 1) Who the fuck is Howard Dean? 2) Who the fuck knew what a blog was 4 years ago? This time around, people know about Barack Obama because he's talked about more than Hillary, and everyone knows what a blog is. Hell, everyone has a fuckin' MySpace account.

My own opinion on the matter is that it's good, cheap marketing. I really have no way to tell if it's working or not. In fact, I don't know if either Barack or Hillary are riding their novelty or their principles. What I do know is that 12 months from now, all of the players are going to have a distinct presence online. What that means is the election may be swayed by the candidate with enough people who think he's "cool" instead of the issues themselves. But that's a maybe. One would like to think that democracy works FOR us rather than against us.

Right.
__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]
Halx is offline  
Old 02-15-2007, 08:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Obama is hoping that he can separate himself from Al and John. He wants to be a big guy with big ideas. He wants to appear "plugged in" to modern society and a great way of doing that is to earn the respect of the techno geeks, such as ourselves. I'm not sure if he's going to stick to his guns, but the only real way to know that is if he beats Hillary and becomes the next POTUS. I'm listening to his podcasts, and so far I'm impressed. If he can really get serious about green issues, he'll have my vote.

Cobb, if you're reading this, fight harder. The Green Party needs balls.
Willravel is offline  
Old 02-15-2007, 08:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
Tone.
 
shakran's Avatar
 
I'm encouraged because the fair and balanced "journalists" over at FNC have been desperately trying to dig up dirt on the guy and the BEST they've come up with is "oh my god! He smokes Marlboros and didn't tell everyone! Can you REALLY trust a guy who smokes and doesn't tell everyone?"

The blogging thing can only help him.
shakran is offline  
Old 02-15-2007, 08:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
Lennonite Priest
 
pan6467's Avatar
 
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
Edwards, has been doing it for awhile and Sherrod Brown blogged and really piled in the e-mails so what Obama is doing isn't that unique.

I see it as a double edged sword, when a candidate blogs, yes, he can see what major issues are..... but when someone replies and says something that can hurt the candidate, do you keep the comment in, maybe even respond to it, or do you censor and act like it didn't exist?

I know Edwards had a problem of that nature and said he would leave it in because he believed in free speech.... and free publicity over the ensuing controversy was gravy...... to some degree.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"
pan6467 is offline  
Old 02-15-2007, 09:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
Deja Moo
 
Elphaba's Avatar
 
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
As Pan said, all of the present candidates have a website that has the candidate's entries, if not a wide open blog for public entries. That has been proven to be risky in the past. Edwards' staff made a terrible error in not checking the background of their hired blog experts.
__________________
"You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007
Elphaba is offline  
Old 02-16-2007, 12:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
Junkie
 
powerclown's Avatar
 
Location: Detroit, MI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halx
What that means is the election may be swayed by the candidate with enough people who think he's "cool" instead of the issues themselves.
When Arnold Schwarzenegger became the governor of Kallyfornea in 03, it was probably factually safe to say we as Americans are living in strange, strange times. Barack seems to be a standup guy - for a clean, black man - but I question his experience. He is a very green, clean black man. He is a gifted orator, which matters. Americans dislike listening to the rape and pillaging of the english language on a daily basis, I know I do. Obama is also a pretty man, which also counts with voters, especially gay men and women. It is kind of weird that a person with so close a name to earth's most notorious terrorist would show up on the scene of the American presidency, but I try not to get too paranoid about that. I've never in my life ever met a "Barack" either. Maybe he was born Barry Osbourne and changed his name for show business. Google Allen Konigsberg, for example.

Barack's website is like a dream. A dream of Hope. It is extremely well designed, with pleasantly subtle use of color, shape, font, and graphic. I don't like the usage of a square inside a circle on the front page, but such are the limitations of video-in-a-box on the internet. The thing Obama seems to do most on his website is smile, he has a tremendously effective smile; a smile that could perhaps melt the heart of the most insane theocratic mullah in Tehran for instance. He says all the right things for a Democrat in America circa 2007, such as "Protecting Our Homeland" and "Honoring Our Veterans", and he does it in such a way as not to needlessly worry people about terrorism. Points for that. There is even BarackTV, which caused my browser to crash.

President 2.0 is looking fine. If I have one complaint, it would be the lack of perspective. You are imprisoned inside the candidate's universe for the duration of your stay. It is like being in a casino or at DisneyWorld. There are no clocks or windows or any other reference points to the real world. We of course do have wingnuts at their posts 24/7/365 to sift through the muck and debris like mississippi river catfish.

Presidential candidate weblogs are a marvelous American invention. The experience is so much more richer and informative than it was even 10 years ago. I don't necessarily think the candidate with the best weblog will win the election. I see weblogs as the ketchup on the french fries of our presidential happy meal.

Last edited by powerclown; 02-16-2007 at 02:31 AM..
powerclown is offline  
Old 02-16-2007, 12:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It!
 
Daniel_'s Avatar
 
Location: Southern England
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerclown
Barack seems to be a standup guy - for a clean, black man
I don't get your point here. Are you saying that his race goes against him (which is certainly the impression I get from UK news coverage), or that a black guy per se can never be treated the same as a not-black guy?

As for the OP, this is a trend that is far from unique to the US - the most recent UK general electin saw all the main players fire up their tame geeks to design some quite slick ideas to "engage the public".

The odd thing is that in our current technologicalworld we have more capacity to communicate and involve ourselves than ever before, and yet turnout at the polls falls every election.

It's a puzler, fer sure.
__________________
╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine

╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝
Daniel_ is offline  
Old 02-16-2007, 12:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
Junkie
 
powerclown's Avatar
 
Location: Detroit, MI
No, I'm not going against his race. One of our more egomaniacal senators, Joe Biden, had a racial "moment" where he referred to Obama thusly:

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

Followed by the obligatory apology:

Biden issued a statement Wednesday afternoon, saying: "I deeply regret any offense my remark in the New York Observer might have caused anyone. That was not my intent and I expressed that to Sen. Obama."

Some kind of Freudian slip no doubt. Maybe a spot to drink for Biden that night. It was probably racist, and defintely awkward, but both are Democrats so no harm, no foul I guess. Obama laughed it off and actually turned it around to his advantage. He's a very intelligent guy. I was just making fun of Biden. Sorry for any confusion.
powerclown is offline  
Old 02-16-2007, 05:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
Darth Papa
 
ratbastid's Avatar
 
Location: Yonder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halx
This particular campaign as a suspiciously empowering effect on those who choose to get involved. Traditionally, it's been, "Just vote for me and I'll handle the rest." This new approach seems to really give people a sense of responsibility.
That's exactly the thing that's so exciting about Obama. His approach--both to his competition and to his electorate--is fresh and empowering. He's relentlessly positive, which is a shockingly novel approach. I'm not sure we've EVER seen a candidate quite like him. Which means either he'll flame out in primaries, or he's our next President by a landslide.
ratbastid is offline  
Old 02-16-2007, 05:48 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
dc_dux's Avatar
 
Location: Washington DC
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerclown
... Barack seems to be a standup guy....He is a very green....He is a gifted orator.... Obama is also a pretty man....he has a tremendously effective smile....He says all the right things for a Democrat in America circa 2007....He's a very intelligent guy.
It sounds like you're saying he is a young Ronald Reagan....with a brain.
__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire
dc_dux is offline  
Old 02-16-2007, 07:03 AM   #11 (permalink)
Extreme moderation
 
Toaster126's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City, yo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halx
What that means is the election may be swayed by the candidate with enough people who think he's "cool" instead of the issues themselves. But that's a maybe.
I think that has been happening since at least the Kennedy / Nixon election... I think this will continue to happen as long as the average person cares more about dumb shit like Anna Nicole Smith's death than the government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halx
One would like to think that democracy works FOR us rather than against us.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." (H. L. Mencken)
__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)
Toaster126 is offline  
Old 02-17-2007, 08:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: Wisconsin
I have listened to one of his books and read and listen to whatever I can find. I have decided I have been to casual in my take on government. I think BUsh has made alot of people that didnt really take politics seriously, want to know more about what they are getting into. I have liked what I have heard from Obama, and though he may not have alot of experience, he seems to get how the regular guy gets along in his life. Rather than some rich ass that was born with a silver spoon, telling me how I live, and taking away the rights a freedoms I should be enjoying as a "free' American. I personally am very excited by the outlook that Obama seems to be about,and yes his positive attitude. That gets anybody a long ways. Took me many years to learn that.

Hope we seem many good things from this man in the future.
__________________
Everything works if you let it....
oneofmanymen is offline  
Old 02-17-2007, 10:06 AM   #13 (permalink)
Crazy
 
magictoy's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanymen
Rather than some rich ass that was born with a silver spoon, telling me how I live, and taking away the rights a freedoms I should be enjoying as a "free' American. I personally am very excited by the outlook that Obama seems to be about,and yes his positive attitude. That gets anybody a long ways. Took me many years to learn that.

Hope we seem many good things from this man in the future.
If you do not consider the right to keep and bear arms a freedom you should be enjoying, then Obama is right for you.

If you think that a black child of Michael Jordan is more deserving of a place in college than the white child of Joe Lunchbucket, then Obama is right for you.

It took me many years to learn that appearance and personality don't always mean a person is the right choice for a specific job.
magictoy is offline  
Old 02-17-2007, 05:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: bedford, tx
Quote:
Originally Posted by magictoy
If you do not consider the right to keep and bear arms a freedom you should be enjoying, then Obama is right for you.
that right there will be the reason he doesn't win. He's on record for wanting to ban all semi-automatics of any kind...even the 'hunters' of illinois were shocked at that.
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
dksuddeth is offline  
Old 02-17-2007, 09:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
dc_dux's Avatar
 
Location: Washington DC
Americans overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons and Obama's position is not that different from Bill Clinton's who certainly wasnt hurt by his position.

Gun control is also hardly a defning issue for most americans....ranking nowhere near the top of any list of priorities like the Iraq war, the economy, terrorism, health care, immigration, education, taxes, or even abortion and gay rights.

Its a loser issue for you, DK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magictoy
If you think that a black child of Michael Jordan is more deserving of a place in college than the white child of Joe Lunchbucket, then Obama is right for you.
You might want to check your facts. The last I heard, Obama spoke out against race-based affirmative action as too divisive and past its time...and in favor of some limited form of class-based affirmative action.

Jut as an aside, its bullshit like this that creeps into many discussions here (another example is ace's baseless declaration in another thread... "No matter how you look at it Democrats are weak on defense), based on innuendo, misinformation and blatantly false talking points spread by wingnut pundits and bloggers.

Perhaps that is why the quality and quantity of TFP political discussions have been on the decline.
__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Last edited by dc_dux; 02-17-2007 at 11:37 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
dc_dux is offline  
Old 02-17-2007, 10:30 PM   #16 (permalink)
Cunning Runt
 
Marvelous Marv's Avatar
 
Location: Taking a mulligan
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_dux
Americans overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons and Obama's position is not that different from Bill Clinton's who certainly wasnt hurt by his position.
That ban on nail files was not popular. They are "assault weapons." So are fists and feet.

The use of the phrase "assault weapons" reveals either a glaring lack of familiarity with the subject, or an attempt to deceive. Usually, it's an attempt to convince the uninitiated that a scary-looking rifle is an "assault weapon," since assault RIFLES are already regulated to the hilt.

As far as Bill Clinton, who "wasn't hurt by his position," did you happen to notice the result of the '94 election? It will be hard to downplay that upheaval, but I'm sure someone here will try.


Quote:
You might want to check your facts. The last I heard, Obama spoke out against race-based affirmative action as too divisive and past its time...and in favor of some limited form of class-based affirmative action.
Is that his position this week? I can't keep track of it.

Quote:
Jut as an aside, its bullshit like this that creeps into many discussions here (another example is the ace of space declaration... "No matter how you look at it Democrats are weak on defense), based on innuendo, misinformation and blatantly false talking points spread by wingnut pundits and bloggers.
Perhaps that is why the quality and quantity of TFP political discussions have been on the decline.
As an aside, your entire post was weak/worthless/a straw man argument.

I haven't posted in politics in months. If you dislike the quality and quantity of political discussions of late, then introspection on your part would be appropriate.
__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher
Marvelous Marv is offline  
Old 02-17-2007, 10:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
dc_dux's Avatar
 
Location: Washington DC
Thank you for further making my case that ignorance prevails.

Quote:
As far as Bill Clinton, who "wasn't hurt by his position," did you happen to notice the result of the '94 election? It will be hard to downplay that upheaval, but I'm sure someone here will try.
The Brady bill ban on assualt weapons passed in 1993 with bi-partisan support. (Its reauthorization had bi-partisan support and Bush's support 10 years later. It failed in 2004 as a result of parliamentary procedures in the House.) The 94 upheaval was the result of the Contract with America (brillilantly conceived and promoted, I admit, but nothing to do with gun control) Show me any analysis that ties the 94 election results to gun control.

Quote:
Is that his position this week? I can't keep track of it.
Obama stated his position that race based affirmative action was divisive and outmoded in his book, The Audacity of Hope.

From an article in the conservative National Review:
Race-based affirmative action policies, he recognizes, have polarized the races, while race-neutral or “universal” programs unite them. “Rightly or wrongly, white guilt has largely exhausted itself in America; even the most fair-minded whites…tend to push back against suggestions of racial victimization — or race-specific claims based on the history of race discrimination in this country.”

Advocates of “class-based” or “race-neutral” affirmative action have been around a long time — even then-Governor George W. Bush supported “need-based” government contracting set-asides, as did many congressional Republicans in the 1990s. But, for the most part, no recent Democratic presidential aspirant has been as bold as Obama in discussing the problems with race-based affirmative action: “An emphasis on universal, as opposed to race-specific, programs isn’t just good policy; it’s also good politics.”
.

Quote:
As an aside, your entire post was weak/worthless/a straw man argument.
SO where are YOUR facts?
__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Last edited by dc_dux; 02-17-2007 at 11:27 PM..
dc_dux is offline  
Old 02-18-2007, 01:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
Banned
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv
.......Is that his position this week? I can't keep track of it.



As an aside, your entire post was weak/worthless/a straw man argument.

<b>I haven't posted in politics in months.</b> If you dislike the quality and quantity of political discussions of late, then introspection on your part would be appropriate.
au contraire....Marv.....<b>If you are going to claim that you haven't posted here "in months", you can avoid looking like you look, now....if you don't make a claim like that, or if you actually have not posted. Also, if you are challenging an accusation like the one that dc_dux made, shouldn't the posts that you claim you did not author.....contain a tad less "eye rolling" and unsupported, partisan "digs", than what you've "served up"?</b> You were quite active here, just last month. A review of your "offerings" for the month of January, 2007, tends to reinforce dc_dux's argument, IMO:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv
Well, although I might have started another thread after that insightful post, I might as well add this one:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars



The only thing worse than bickering is when Congress actually AGREES on something, and bad laws get passed. I can hardly wait to see what ELSE is brought forth over the next two years.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...46#post2180146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv
http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...0720-2734r.htm



This is just as wrong as when Bush exempted oil industry workers from the minimum wage requirement!

Oh, wait ....

The Democrats couldn't WAIT to begin fixing the country (except, of course, for the day Congress took off to watch football), and THIS is the first thing on their agenda? I can hardly wait for a comment from a traditional non-conservative that "raising the minimum wage costs jobs." Samoans don't deserve a "decent living wage?"

Looks like a rocky ride ahead.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...47#post2179747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv
Yes, of course, Canadians never heard of it.

Nice troll, moderator.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...41#post2177541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv
......Thank God the Democrats are heading up both houses now. Why, in one day, they've lowered the price of oil. Oh, and the thought of them being in leadership positions has prevented Bush from starting any more hurricanes this year.

I sure feel safe with Democrats running congress.


http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...58#post2176658
....as for Obama....he will have to overcome the hurdles of his first and middle names, his race and religious background, and his lack of experience, as well as the "stuff" that will be dredged up about him and his family background, over the next 20 months.
Here is a sample of the "background" reporting that we can expect to read:
www.freerepublic.com/~beckwith/

I don't think he can overcome it all, and I think that his nomination will be headed off for my stated reasons......I'm going to support a candidate with less "baggage" and more experience....someone who can win, if one even emerges.
Quote:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

Obama, Rezko ...

Published November 3, 2006

It's possible that, two years from Friday, Sen. Barack Obama will be on the eve of his election to the presidency of the United States. It's also possible the Obama boomlet will have collapsed, leaving the Illinois senator eclipsed by hotter names with brighter prospects.......

.....Obama would be wise to explain, fully and quickly, the prelude to a real estate deal and subsequent transactions related to his acquisition of a $1.65 million home on Chicago's South Side. If Obama doesn't shine his own spotlight on his real estate relationship with indicted political fundraiser Antoin "Tony" Rezko, he'll be fielding questions about Rezko in two years and in 20.

First among those questions with staying power: Why would Obama allow himself any connection to Rezko? The developer notoriously attaches himself to political figures, often parlaying friendships into business dealings that have attracted official suspicions for several years......
Quote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/p...,2716725.story
Rezko owns vacant lot next to Obama's home

By Ray Gibson and David Jackson
Tribune staff reporters
Published November 1, 2006

When Sen. Barack Obama decided to buy a stately $1.65 million home last year on Chicago's South Side, Antoin "Tony" Rezko and his wife wasted no time. The same day the Obamas closed on the house, the Rezkos closed on the purchase of the adjoining vacant lot, which once was the estate's lush side yard.

In normal circumstances, the two real estate transactions probably wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. There is, after all, nothing illegal or untoward about an aggressive developer buying hot property next door to a rising political star.

But these are not normal times for either Obama or Rezko, two longtime friends whose fortunes have taken sharp turns in opposite directions.

Illinois' junior U.S. senator has become a political star, riding a surge of popularity that has made him a top potential candidate for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination.

Rezko, meanwhile, has achieved notoriety of a different sort. In October, he pleaded not guilty to federal charges involving pay-to-play allegations that surround Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's administration.

Now the hows and whys of a real estate deal, and a train of subsequent transactions, are raising questions about the relationship between the two men, as Obama struggles to distance himself from Rezko, and Rezko strives to stay out of prison.

Over the last 16 months, as they jointly worked to improve their side-by-side properties, the two men entered an ongoing series of personal financial arrangements. Because Rezko was widely reported to be under federal grand jury scrutiny, Obama said he was careful to ensure their transactions were ethical and proper.

"My working assumption was that as long as I operated in an open, up-front fashion, and all the T's were crossed and I's were dotted, that it wouldn't be an issue," Obama said. "If it was a neighbor I didn't know at all, would I have behaved any differently? I felt like the answer was no."

Obama added: "Tony has been a supporter of mine since my first race for state Senate."

And he said: "I haven't been involved with him in any legislative work whatsoever or any government activities of any sort."

For years, it's been Rezko's practice to befriend up-and-coming political figures, from Blagojevich to the godson of former County Board President John Stroger. Rezko often weaves those political friendships into business ventures.

Rezko first reached out to Obama in about 1990 when the future senator made headlines as the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review. Rezko and two real estate partners called out of the blue to offer a job building inner-city homes.

"I said no, but I remained friendly with all three of them," Obama said. "All three of them remained great contributors of mine."

Over the years Rezko and Obama shared lunch "once or twice a year, although that's just an estimate," the senator said. As couples, the Rezkos and Obamas dined perhaps "two to four times ... in the time that I've known him."

One of Illinois' most prominent local Democratic fundraisers, Rezko and his companies donated at least $8,000 to Obama's state Senate campaigns and $11,500 to Obama's federal fund. (Obama has said he will divest those federal donations.) Rezko also hosted a 2003 event to boost Obama's campaign fund.

Obama and his wife were already flush with success when they went house hunting last year. Their combined income--bolstered by payments for his best-selling autobiography and advances for future books--topped $1.67 million. His wife, Michelle, had recently been promoted to a $316,962-a-year position as vice president at the University of Chicago Hospitals.

House has 4 fireplaces

They were drawn to a 96-year-old Georgian revival home that has four fireplaces, glass-door bookcases fashioned from Honduran mahogany, and a 1,000-bottle wine cellar, according to real estate listings and an interview. The house and the adjoining yard--which is surveyed as a separate lot--are rimmed by 12-foot-tall evergreens.

In the past, the two lots had been sold as a single estate. But in 2005, the owners listed the two parcels for sale separately.

Obama said his family's real estate broker brought the house to his wife's attention. He said he discussed the house with Rezko but isn't sure how Rezko began pursuing the adjacent lot. But Obama raised the possibility that he was the first to bring the lot to Rezko's attention.....

<center><a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=www.chicagotribune.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fchi-0611010273nov01%2C1%2C2716725.story%3Fpage%3D2&btnG=Google+Search">Page 2</a> <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=www.chicagotribune.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fchi-0611010273nov01%2C1%2C2716725.story%3Fpage%3D3&btnG=Search">Page 3</a></center>
host is offline  
Old 02-18-2007, 07:10 AM   #19 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: bedford, tx
i just shot myself
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Last edited by Hanxter; 02-18-2007 at 09:16 AM..
dksuddeth is offline  
Old 02-18-2007, 07:52 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
dc_dux's Avatar
 
Location: Washington DC
Quote:
Even Clinton admits that it was the AWB, unless that was a lie as well?
The NRA was a convenient scapegoat, although I dont deny they can influence close House elections with their money. Nearly every analysis I have read about the 94 elections point to the Contract with American, which had no mention of gun rights, but was very effective in the suburbs on the issues that most people (unlike you) care about.

The NRA and its money has virtually no impact on Presidential elections, in which I addressed your false assumption about Obama's position.
__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire
dc_dux is offline  
Old 02-18-2007, 07:58 AM   #21 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: bedford, tx
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_dux
The NRA was a convenient scapegoat, although I dont deny they can influence close House elections with their money. Nearly every analysis I have read about the 94 elections point to the Contract with American, which had no mention of gun rights, but was very effective in the suburbs on the issues that most people (unlike you) care about.

The NRA and its money has virtually no impact on Presidential elections, in which I addressed your false assumption about Obama's position.
I practice this kind of ignorance consistently!!!

Quote:
"The Second Amendment to the Constitution has nothing to do with duck or deer hunting. It has nothing to do with target practice or owning collector's weapons. The Second Amendment is a political right written into our Constitution for the purpose of protecting individual citizens from their government. The lesson of the English Civil War and the American Revolution was that political freedom is ultimately based upon the courage and preparedness of those who would remain free. If the Lexington and Concord minutemen had not kept weapons, they could not have fired the shot heard 'round the world. If the American colonists had not been trained in how to shoot and fight, they could not have become American citizens."
Newt Gingrich, Speaker of the House, , To Renew America, (HarperCollins, 1995), pp.201-202

There is part of your 'contract with america' and it's mention of gun rights.

I'm a life time memeber of the witless american program!!!
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Last edited by Hanxter; 02-18-2007 at 09:18 AM..
dksuddeth is offline  
Old 02-18-2007, 08:02 AM   #22 (permalink)
 
dc_dux's Avatar
 
Location: Washington DC
Quote:
There is part of your 'contract with america' and it's mention of gun rights.
Where in the Contract with America does it mention gun rights?

Quote:
It's also quite comical how you think that money, the NRA's in particular' has no impact on presidential elections.
Show me how NRA money and Clinton's support for the (still fresh at the time) Brady bill hurt his reelection in 1996. You do recall how Bush supported its reauthorization as well?

Its cool with me....continue to ignore the facts and obsess over your guns...and watch the country pass you by in 08.
__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Last edited by dc_dux; 02-18-2007 at 08:10 AM..
dc_dux is offline  
Old 02-18-2007, 08:30 AM   #23 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Stop, please. This is about Obama.
Willravel is offline  
Old 02-18-2007, 08:41 AM   #24 (permalink)
 
dc_dux's Avatar
 
Location: Washington DC
Its all yours, Will.

I am just about out of patience with and interest in the inanity of TFP politics where the facts dont seem to matter to some.
__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire
dc_dux is offline  
Old 02-18-2007, 11:17 AM   #25 (permalink)
immoral minority
 
ASU2003's Avatar
 
Location: Back in Ohio
John McCain has his McCainSpace pages (that aren't working right now). But I like the new way of campaigning. It is more positive and doesn't cost as much. It gets people involved, but it might take the anonymity out of voting.
ASU2003 is offline  
Old 02-18-2007, 03:23 PM   #26 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: bedford, tx
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
Stop, please. This is about Obama.
who is a gun control nut. I'm not the one who threadjacked.

Quote:
I am just about out of patience with and interest in the inanity of TFP politics where the facts dont seem to matter to some.
pot, kettle, black.
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
dksuddeth is offline  
Old 02-18-2007, 03:54 PM   #27 (permalink)
Please touch this.
 
Halx's Avatar
 
Owner/Admin
Location: Manhattan
This thread is about the presidential campaign using social networking websites to get voters involved. This is not about gun control or personal criticism. Get it out of this thread now. Create another thread or drop it.
__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Last edited by Halx; 02-18-2007 at 04:02 PM..
Halx is offline  
Old 02-18-2007, 05:16 PM   #28 (permalink)
Easy Rider
 
flstf's Avatar
 
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halx
My own opinion on the matter is that it's good, cheap marketing. I really have no way to tell if it's working or not. In fact, I don't know if either Barack or Hillary are riding their novelty or their principles. What I do know is that 12 months from now, all of the players are going to have a distinct presence online. What that means is the election may be swayed by the candidate with enough people who think he's "cool" instead of the issues themselves. But that's a maybe. One would like to think that democracy works FOR us rather than against us.

Right.
I agree that the online presence is helpful and most serious candidates will have sites. In my opinion many of those who seek out political information online are usually well read and already have a political stance. I think online info may help more in the primaries than the general.

Once the general election begins though it is much more a popularity contest than a debate on the issues and Obama has a long way to go. At the local county bar the subject of Obama came up in a discussion I overheard and some in the small group thought that he is a terrorist. I know this sounds comical but these people vote.
flstf is offline  
Old 02-18-2007, 06:42 PM   #29 (permalink)
Please touch this.
 
Halx's Avatar
 
Owner/Admin
Location: Manhattan
That's kinda scarey. It looks like a PR nightmare. However, the buzz that originates online has frequently made its way into the mainstream. We've got a ways to go.
__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]
Halx is offline  
Old 02-19-2007, 08:25 AM   #30 (permalink)
The Griffin
 
Hanxter's Avatar
 
it has great potential for giving the people a voice, if, and only if, it isn't censored by some candidate's flack...

ever write an editorial and hope to see it in the paper and it's not... another opinion tossed and not heard...

ever try to talk to a candidate and recieve nothing but rhetoric...

it's hair-pulling, frustrating, "why do i even bother?" feeling of apathy...

if they post a blurb and show true feelings about their stance(s) they may actually read the responses...

one thing it may also show is the demographical differences throughout the country what they won't find on the back of a train, spending 15 minutes on a soapbox spewing "if i was president" blather...

i want to know that i've been heard and my voice has value...

i want honesty, (not some polished prose that "sounds good"), that has meat in its presentation... something i can chew on and respond to in kind...

(sheesh - i posted in politics... what's with that???)
Hanxter is offline  
Old 03-07-2007, 06:50 PM   #31 (permalink)
is awesome!
 
Locobot's Avatar
 
What I think everyone has missed so far is the potential the web holds for radically changing the path money takes to candidates. The OP was correct to mention Howard Dean's 2004 campaign which was so wildly successful at raising donations in small amounts from individual donors. This scared the established powers on the Left (and Right) to the point that they helped orchestrate Dean's character assassination. It is interesting to see which candidates have thus far adopted Dean's strategy in getting supporters involved via blogs etc. We can assume that Obama or McCain will have a harder time tapping the established Union/Corporation lucre than Clinton or whomever Rove anoints.

The blogs are great and the web has been a good way to disseminate information about a candidate since 1996, but it's the $$$ that counts. Would you rather have a candidate supported by a few insurers or people who use healthcare? The ideal candidate would pair a web-based call for donations with a strict limit on donations to say $300 (Jerry Brown did $100, but that was 1992).
Locobot is offline  
 

Tags
president, thoughts

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:12 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360