WMD's Moved to Syria

[Seaver]

We all have probably heard about General Sada by now. He was the #2 man in the Iraqi Air Force, claims that he personally witnessed WMD's loaded onto planes that flew to Syria.

Here's some background information I dug up.

This from Air Force Colonel David Eberly, shot down near Al Quim, Iraq, 1/22/91 and liberated 3/5/91 (42 days in captivity):

At the time we first met, we were enemies. He was clearly the enemy," Eberly told me. "He was the other side of the blindfold, like anyone else who had put a gun to my head or spit on me or any other level of mistreatment.

"And yet in his mind, he personally viewed us differently. He viewed us as pilots who had protection under the Geneva Convention. He is a big man in the sense that he recognized what Iraq had signed up to, and it nearly cost him his life in trying to uphold that signature."

And what, exactly, happened to prompt these comments from Col. Eberly?

On Jan. 24, (2001) Qusai first ordered the POWs executed. When Sada balked, Qusai accused him of disobeying the orders of the president.

Sada tried to reason with Qusai, reminding him that even the prophet Muhammad once said that if prisoners of war learned 10 verses of the Koran, they could be set free. This only angered Qusai, who threatened to put the POWs in areas being bombed by American forces. Sada urged him not to use them as human shields. He kept turning to the Geneva Convention, which made Qusai angrier still.

"This was the end," Sada thought. "And I knew something was going to happen to me."

He was right. Qusai pitched him into a cell in the same prison as the POWs, and Sada wondered if his head would be separated from his body at last. But even locked up, Sada still had his contacts check on the POW pilots, making sure they were still alive.

After 12 days, Sada finally found a way to reach Qusai: He made the war personal.

"If you kill the pilots," Sada told him, "you will have new war between America and your family. They'll come and kill your father, your brother...." He ticked off Hussein family members.

"After that," Sada says, "he was changed. He thought twice."

Finally, Sada was released from prison. A few weeks later, the war ended and Eberly and the other POWs were released. Battered physically and mentally, they returned home in early March.

And Sada says this of Col. Eberly:

"He was very calm, very confident, very brave and very clever," Sada says of Eberly now, smiling over the "clever" part.

So he is a very honorable man, protected the life of an American pilot from execution with the risk of his own.

There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."

Mr. Sada's comments come just more than a month after Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, told the Sun that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria."

Democrats have made the absence of stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq a theme in their criticism of the Bush administration's decision to go to war in 2003. And President Bush himself has conceded much of the point; in a televised prime-time address to Americans last month, he said, "It is true that many nations believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. But much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong."

Said Mr. Bush, "We did not find those weapons."

.....

Mr. Sada, 65, told the Sun that the pilots of the two airliners that transported the weapons of mass destruction to Syria from Iraq approached him in the middle of 2004, after Saddam was captured by American troops.

"I know them very well. They are very good friends of mine. We trust each other. We are friends as pilots," Mr. Sada said of the two pilots. He declined to disclose their names, saying they are concerned for their safety. But he said they are now employed by other airlines outside Iraq.

The pilots told Mr. Sada that two Iraqi Airways Boeings were converted to cargo planes by removing the seats, Mr. Sada said. Then Special Republican Guard brigades loaded materials onto the planes, he said, including "yellow barrels with skull and crossbones on each barrel." The pilots said there was also a ground convoy of trucks.

The flights - 56 in total, Mr. Sada said - attracted little notice because they were thought to be civilian flights providing relief from Iraq to Syria, which had suffered a flood after a dam collapse in June of 2002.

Being that high up he is clearly a credible source. It would not be difficult to mount up WMD's into cargo planes under the guise of relief support, as a simple hanger could defeat even the best satillites and aircrafter out there.

If this is true what does everyone suggest we do? Doing nothing would simply mean that Syria could just hand it off to Hamas or Al Quaeda. True their ideologies could hardly match, but their common enemy can easily override that. A full invasion is completely feasable, but our only ally in that would be Israel and Lebanon, and the former we dont exactly want their help.

[host]

This is a request to mods to move this thread out of the politics forum, because, politically speaking, this is a "settled" matter. This subject is more appropriate in "General Discussion", or in "Paranoia", just as, most of us accept..... the 9/11 "Conspiracy" threads are, until and if the time comes when a controversy can be convincingly "backed up".

The third quote box makes it probable that General Sada is employing "heresay" to sell a book.

The Duelfer Report found no evidence to confirm Sada's claim. The Bush administration has never retracted the Jan. 12, 2005 statements to the press by their spokesman, about this matter, available in the second quote box, below.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer
Report Discounts Iraqi Arms Threat
U.S. Inspector Says Hussein Lacked Means

By Mike Allen and Dana Priest
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, October 6, 2004; Page A01

.....The Bush administration has held out the possibility that illicit weapons and their components were secreted by Hussein across the border into Syria. This may still be true, but Duelfer's team did not find any proof to support this notion, the official said. "They have no evidence of this," the official said. "It's an unresolved issue." Syria denies it aided the hiding of illicit materials......

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0050112-7.html
January 12, 2005

.............. Q The President accepts that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, he said back in October that the comprehensive report by Charles Duelfer concluded what his predecessor had said, as well, that the weapons that we all believed were there, based on the intelligence, were not there. And now what is important is that we need to go back and look at what was wrong with much of the intelligence that we accumulated over a 12-year period and that our allies had accumulated over that same period of time, and correct any flaws.

Q I just want to make sure, though, because you said something about following up on additional reports and learning more about the regime. You are not trying to hold out to the American people the possibility that there might still be weapons somewhere there, are you?

MR. McCLELLAN: No, I just said that if there are -- if there are any other reports, obviously, of weapons of mass destruction, then people will follow up on those reports. I'm just stating a fact....

......... Q Two follow-ups. There's been quite a bit of talk that Syria might have hidden some of these weapons of mass destruction. Is the government of Syria cooperating at all in the search for WMD?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, you have the report from Charles Duelfer. You can go and look at that report in terms of addressing those issues, and I think the President has spoken to the whole issue of weapons of mass destruction. Obviously, if there are any other reports that come to people's attention, they'll follow up on those reports. ......

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182941,00.html
WMD in Syria?
Friday, January 27, 2006
By Brit Hume

Now some fresh pickings from the Political Grapevine:

The number two general in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved its weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the U.S. invasion. In a new book titled "Saddam's Secrets," former general Georges Sada recounts the story of <b>two airline pilots who told him Saddam's Republican Guard loaded chemical weapons onto two converted civilian aircraft, which the pilots then flew into neighboring Syria under the guise of humanitarian relief.</b>

Sada tells FOX News he believes the Syrian government knows exactly where the weapons are saying, "I am sure that these weapons have landed in Damascus. Where could they have gone?"....

http://www.cbc.ca/insite/WORLD_REPOR...2005/4/26.html
April 26, 2005

In international news.....

The CIA agent in charge of searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq has concluded his work. Charles Duelfer says the search has been exhausted without finding any weapons. Nor did he find any evidence that weapons were shipped from Iraq to Syria to be hidden before the U.S.-led invasion.

...and as recently as yesterday....

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188665,00.html
FOXNEWS.COM HOME > U.S. & WORLD
Transcripts Show Saddam Frustrated Over WMD Claims
Wednesday, March 22, 2006

....Scores of Iraqi documents, seized after the 2003 invasion, are being released at the request of the U.S. House Intelligence Committee chairman, Rep. Peter Hoekstra, who has <b>suggested that evidence might turn up that the Iraqis hid their weapons or sent them to neighboring Syria. No such evidence has emerged...</b>

[tecoyah]

Originally Posted by host

This is a request to mods to move this thread out of the politics forum, because, politically speaking, this is a "settled" matter. This subject is more appropriate in "General Discussion", or in "Paranoia", just as, most of us accept..... the 9/11 "Conspiracy" threads are, until and if the time comes when a controversy can be convincingly "backed up".

Your request is noted. Though the issue of just how "Settled" this is, remains in debate.

[tecoyah]

I propose a change in direction for this thread, as a way to frame it for debate:


If indeed there is truth to this theory and Iraq did move chemical weapons out of country, taking into account the move away from WMD's as justification for the war in the first place by the Administration, would this even be relevant anymore. Or do you think the Administration would re-emphasize this issue as reasoning for the invasion, in an attempt to regain support from the American People.

[Nimetic]

It'd be a little stupid to invade a country based on heresay.

Lets say that they did exist, and they did get flown to Syria without being detected. Well if that's possible, then they could be anywhere now.

Anyways - which country are you going to pick, out of Syria, Iran and North Korea? Or would you support invading all three?

[stevo]

This isn't the first source to say WMDs were moved to Syria, its not going to be the last. Soon enough you will hear from those pilots that actually flew the planes to Syria admit to it. Then what will you say? I'm beyond the point where I think it even matters if WMDs are found in Syria. The left won't agree that the war was justified anyway. I can already hear their arguements. "well, they weren't found in iraq, so they don't count" "how do you know they even came from iraq" "the could have been from syrias wmd program" "blah blah blah" So it really doesn't even matter. The truth will come out in plain sight one day - but that doesn't mean everyone will believe it.

[Charlatan]

1) What would be the shelf life of those chemical weapons?
2) Is Syria in any position to use them? If so, what would they gain by it?

[stevo]

Originally Posted by Charlatan

1) What would be the shelf life of those chemical weapons?
2) Is Syria in any position to use them? If so, what would they gain by it?

1)don't know
2)It may not be important to them to use the weapons. What would they gain by letting iraq dump them in syria...1)cash payoff from saddam 2)Help in making the US look bad. We are not a friend to syria. Syria considers us an enemy more than an ally. By taking in the weapons prior to the war syria pretty much garuntees that the US looks bad and bush looks like a liar. They help in destroying our credibility. This isn't a matter or incentive-there's plenty. If you want more reasons see seaver's post below

[Seaver]

1) The shelf life depends on what type and how it is stored. Chemical weapons as long as they are stored in a cool environment can last decades. Biological depend on what type. Anthrax can last easily over 100yrs in almost any condition, while botulism and others need to be kept either cool or frozen to last. Either way their shelf life of almost any WMD is long enough that Syria if they have them doesn't need tow orry.

2) Syria is not in a position to use them. If they exist they are better off laying low until the next president comes in or the Iraq war ends. However what I'm afraid of is they will simply hand off to Al Quaeda, Hamas, or the PLO who are drooling at the chance to use it on Israel, England, France, Germany, USA, (insert western country here).

This is a request to mods to move this thread out of the politics forum, because, politically speaking, this is a "settled" matter. This subject is more appropriate in "General Discussion", or in "Paranoia", just as, most of us accept..... the 9/11 "Conspiracy" threads are, until and if the time comes when a controversy can be convincingly "backed up".

Sorry if I disagree. Your suggestions that Bush planned the attacks on 9/11 or the "Is Bush a Plant?" hold absolutely no water in comparison to the #2 man in the Iraqi Air Force.

So you state it's a "settled matter". What if the documentation comes out stating that the weapons were moved? What if the pilots themselves come out and say they piloted the planes?

What would it take for you to believe that there is validity to this? The other ones moved to Paranoia because they were written by crackpots, I'd start to believe your threads if they were posted by a high ranking General/Admiral in our military.

[roachboy]

However what I'm afraid of is they will simply hand off to Al Quaeda, Hamas, or the PLO who are drooling at the chance to use it on Israel, England, France, Germany, USA, (insert western country here)

what are you talking about?

[Seaver]

what are you talking about?

You know what I'm talking about, I'm talking about Syria handing off one WMD (if it is true) to any of the terrorist organizations in order to strike at their common enemy.

[roachboy]

um---i dont follow your logic. i dont see any connection between al queada hamas--especially now--and the plo.
i dont see any connection as to agenda. i dont see any "drooling to use wmds on the western country of your choice."
what i do see is paranoia shaped by the "logic" of the (wholly worthless) huntington thesis.
i am not sure that this is an argument worth persuing....so i'll leave it at that, for my part at least.


as for tec's question: i dont know what the implications of reliable information surfacing as to the wmd claims woudl be at this point. i dont think that such information exists, because i do not personally think the transfer happened. but like host said, it does sell books. marketing is like that--that goes for books and war, apparently. capitalism is grand like that.

[Willravel]

Originally Posted by tecoyah

If indeed there is truth to this theory and Iraq did move chemical weapons out of country, taking into account the move away from WMD's as justification for the war in the first place by the Administration, would this even be relevant anymore. Or do you think the Administration would re-emphasize this issue as reasoning for the invasion, in an attempt to regain support from the American People.

I believe it's too late. Had we been able to prove there were 1) links between the al Qaeda, 9/11, Saddam, Iraq, we would have had a justification for our war in Iraq (one of the largest obsticles for the administration in the PR department). The weapons are fast becoming a sidenote to the "free iraq" motto. Because of the fundamental change in the reasoning behind our attack on Iraq, proving there were WMDs, while helpful, would not heal the hemoraging wound of credibility. Honestly, right now, there is evidence contradicting the this story about weapons being moved to Syria. During several interrogations in the early to mid 90s information was extracted that confirmed that most if not all the weapons were destroyed because of the UN inspections.

[Bodyhammer86]

During several interrogations in the early to mid 90s information was extracted that confirmed that most if not all the weapons were destroyed because of the UN inspections.

But there was also evidence to suggest that they were still there from 97-98, and of course, playing games with the inspectors didn't help Saddam's credibility any.

[joshbaumgartner]

The potential of WMDs from Iraq existing in other parts of the world would seem to be a significant security item which should be getting an appropriate response.

However, I have to see it in the light of Administration's claims directly prior to the war that they had actionable intelligence on exact locations of the chemical infrastructure in Iraq, and that if the bumbling UN would have just let the US in, we would be able to take them right to the exact locations. Like many things stated about WMDs prior to the war (45 minute deployment times; chemical belts around Baghdad; etc.), this proved to be nothing but fancy.

If the Administration was right about Iraq's WMD capability, and they were honest about the WMDs being the rationale for war, then it would follow that the fate of those WMDs would remain an important aspect of our policy. Only certain paths would thus make sense. If the weapons left Iraq long before the war, then we were wrong about them having WMD capabilities. If they left Iraq shortly before war, then we would have found the remains of the chemical infrastructure (maintaining stockpiles of chemical weapons involve a lot more than just the weapons themselves). In either case, the tracking of the stockpile should have been a high priority for our intelligence system, and losing track of them would have been an extreme failure. I somehow doubt that the Israelis would have allowed them to come closer to their state without at least having clear knowledge on their status at all times. Thus we have no excuse for not at least knowing what country they are in. If they are in an unstable place, then why aren't we going after them, as they are no less threat in Syria or Yemen or wherever then they were in Iraq?

Now it is possible that we do know where they are, and just don't have the military capacity to do what we did to Iraq to this other country right now, mainly because we've bogged our military down in a conflict in Iraq for the foreseeable future. Of course this would lend credence the idea that the Iraq war has made us less safe, as it didn't get its target, while it has made us less capable of responding to future threats.

[Seaver]

um---i dont follow your logic. i dont see any connection between al queada hamas--especially now--and the plo.
i dont see any connection as to agenda. i dont see any "drooling to use wmds on the western country of your choice."
what i do see is paranoia shaped by the "logic" of the (wholly worthless) huntington thesis.
i am not sure that this is an argument worth persuing....so i'll leave it at that, for my part at least.

How do you not figure the logic? Common hatred creates strange allies.

We are allied with Turkministan, they aid us in our fight against terrorism although politically we could not be farther apart. Syria absolutely despises Israel, while they may not hand it off to Hamas, they have always supported the PLO because of their common socialistic-secular government structures.

[joshbaumgartner]

Originally Posted by Charlatan

1) What would be the shelf life of those chemical weapons?
2) Is Syria in any position to use them? If so, what would they gain by it?

As for shelf life, it is an excellent question. Chemical weapons have relatively limited shelf life, although specifics depend on the type in question. A chemical weapons stockpile can't exist on its own, at lest not for long. It requires an infrastructure of manufacture, storage, transportation, delivery, and command to maintain it for more than a couple of years at most. Since the majority of hard evidence we have of chemical weapons existing in Iraq comes from prior to Desert Storm, for Iraq to retain this capability would have required such an infrastructure.

We can easily visualize loading drums of VX in solution or whatever onto transports and flying them out to Syria. What isn't so readily acceptable is the idea that the entire infrastructure could be transported out, or the parts that couldn't be transported destroyed in such a short period of time, and that this task could be done so secretly and so completely that we wouldn't have any real evidence to its existance remain. We know Saddam had chemicals at some point, true, but we haven't found anything yet that indicates that he had an active chemical warfare capability during the lead-up to the invasion.

It takes the US a decade to close a chemical warfare facility and finally get the thing to the point where it isn't soaked with remnants of its original role. But yet somehow Saddam can in a matter of months bury his entire chemical program or ship it abroad, all without us able to keep tabs on it?

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Saddam made some attempt to send chemical elements out of the country. What I find implausible is the idea that a chemical weapons program of such magnitude and capability as to warrant the invasion of a country could so quickly, completely, and secretly be cleansed just prior to said invasion.

As for Syria's use, I would think it unlikely that they would have much use at all for the agents. If some sensitive manufacturing tools were transferred, they'd probably find a home in Syria's program, but the agents themselves would be of little value.

Unlike a nuclear program, where fissile material is the currency that determines your capacity, chemical programs rely on infrastructure. The agenst themselves degrade rapidly, and are expensive and risky to store in large amounts. Instead, you need an infrastructure that can maintain a limited ready stockpile for quick use, with the manufacturing backup to both continually replenish your stockpile as well as be able to keep a supply given a usage situation. You can make a quantity and store it somewhere but you are likely to find it useless by the time you need it. If Saddam sent agents to Syria, they were very likely already inert if not nearly so, unless he had a significant infrastructure in Iraq.

What about terrorists? If Syria felt that Saddam's chemicals had use in being supplied to terrorists, versus simply supplying chemicals from other sources, then its probably a good thing, as pointed out above, these agents are very likely of little potency compared to fresh weapons that are part of an active chemical infrastructure. Frankly I don't see why Iraqi-made chemicals would be any more dangerous in Syrian or Iranian hands than say, Iranian-made chemicals.

[Mojo_PeiPei]

It wasn't "completely" "cleansed", they found plenty of shit, just never the "smoking gun".

[joshbaumgartner]

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

It wasn't "completely" "cleansed", they found plenty of shit, just never the "smoking gun".

Stuff like shells that once upon a time may have held gas, mobile trailers that may have been part of a program, etc.? All perfectly good evidence that there once was a program in the country, a fact that is not in dispute. But we certainly haven't found any clear evidence of a program that had been active any time recently.

We not only haven't found the smoking gun, we haven't found that the gun even has been there recently. It is like we knew the guy owned a gun ten years ago, and we break into his house, hold the guy, and find a disused set of gun tools, a dusty old gun case, and some corroded shell casings. Then we come to the conclusion that the only reason we didn't find a gun is that he must have stashed it last night in the neighbor's yard. I'm sorry but its grasping at straws. Like I said above, I'm not saying he didn't try and hide something--I don't doubt that for a minute. What I doubt is that he could have done so with the speed, secrecy, and efficiency that he would have had to have done it to limit our findings to what we have uncovered.

[smooth]

There are a couple of assumptions that are bizarre to me in the claim that this man is a reliable or honorable person:
1) that someone is reliable on the basis of his military service in an enemy regime
2) that someone who does one honorable deed then becomes an honorable person in all his other endeavors, as well

I saw his interview last night on the Daily Show, by the way, and he did not claim to have personally witnessed the weapons loaded and flown to Syria.

What he said, and he made sure to clarify by restating himself midsentence, was that he saw the weapons earlier in his career, and knew where they were. Later, his men told him that they had loaded them up and flown them to Syria. He did not personally see them do this, but he stated that he believed his men.

[joshbaumgartner]

Unfortunately, militaries are usually rife with rumors...my single stint proved that to me without a doubt. How many times did it come through the ship that we were changing course for Bosnia or Somalia or Iraq or wherever had been seen on the satellite news that night? Too many to count.

In a military run in a dictatorship under the rule of fear and subterfuge, in which everyone was watching their back, I can only imagine it would be worse.

I don't think he is a liar, but he may be getting more mileage out of this than the actual experience warrants. I am reminded of the many German generals who made post-war careers out of highlighting their dislike for Hitler. Not that they were being dishonest--many generals truly did detest the man--but it is also pretty easy to see that they understood that the best way to make it in a new order is to tell your new leaders what they like to hear. I don't have the hard data to call this general a liar, but I would bet that phrases such as saying you believed your men about a statement about where planes were headed are definitely chosen with the audience in mind, knowing that 'they were rumors, but rumors are common in the military' wouldn't have the same positive response from an American audience.

[Willravel]

Josh, those are three excelent posts. Kudos. Excelent contribution to discussion.

[highthief]

Originally Posted by smooth

There are a couple of assumptions that are bizarre to me in the claim that this man is a reliable or honorable person:
1) that someone is reliable on the basis of his military service in an enemy regime
2) that someone who does one honorable deed then becomes an honorable person in all his other endeavors, as well

1) He is reliable only in that he agrees with the position of certain people who support the war.

2) Indeed. I hear Hitler was nice to his dogs, didn't make him a swell guy.

Good points, smooth.

[host]

Originally Posted by Seaver

....Sorry if I disagree. Your suggestions that Bush planned the attacks on 9/11 or the "Is Bush a Plant?" hold absolutely no water in comparison to the #2 man in the Iraqi Air Force.

So you state it's a "settled matter". What if the documentation comes out stating that the weapons were moved? What if the pilots themselves come out and say they piloted the planes?

What would it take for you to believe that there is validity to this? The other ones moved to Paranoia because they were written by crackpots, I'd start to believe your threads if they were posted by a high ranking General/Admiral in our military.

I'll share what has answered, for me, why no reputable news media outlet will "touch" "Vice Marshall Air" Georges Sada's <a href="http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=%5CSpecialReports%5Carchive%5C200602%5CSPE20060202a.html">"WMD transfer via 56 sorties to Syria aboard 2 "converted" Iraqi Airline, passenger planes, a 747 and a 727."</a>

I believe that, as a group, we would take a leap forward if we could reach a consensus, as to whether this topic can support it's own weight..
<b>[1]</b>Georges Sada was "retired" from the Iraqi military, for at least 11 years before his WMD transfer story took place in latter 2002.

<b>[2]</b>Sada and his story seem to be a "product" of a fundamentalist christian centric, propaganda "Op", that is intended to dovetail with a conservative political goal to keep the WMD "door open", in an attempt to hold that 30 plus percent of the still "faithful", from abandoning hope that the left will be proven wrong about accusations of Bush "lying us into a war". I find it "odd" that Georges Sada is featured as a "speaker" by the agancy that sells his "services"...as you can see...he's part of a well known roster of clients.

<b>[3]</b>This quote from Sada, during his most recent service to Iraq, might even give pause to those who vouch for his WMD transfer claims:

"If [a guerrilla] was in opposition against the Americans, that will be justified because it was an occupation force," the spokesman, Georges Sada, said yesterday. "We will give them freedom."

<b>[4]</b>Sada's book publisher, http://www.integritypublishers.com was recently duped by a fraudster and scam artist "book author" who impersonated a psychologist. The California state professional board and the FTC seem to validate the accusations made by professor Gary Adams, against the "Integrity" published title, "Discover Your Child’s DQ Factor" author Greg Cynaumon, and the lack of cooperation in response to the fraud, by Integrity publisher, Joey Paul. Integrity exclusively publishes christian themed books, including three titles by Pat Robertson. All of these observations, topped by Sada's eleven year retirement, plus his lack of direct knowledge of the events that he is the lone promoter of, makes it impossible for me to move into a discussion of "what if" Sada is right about the 56 "sorties" to Syria.

<b>[5]</b>Relevant excerpt from the March 2005 Duelfer report to the CIA director.

<b>[1]</b>

http://www.google.com/custom?q=sada&...rch=ocms.ac.uk

http://72.14.203.104/custom?q=cache:...k&cd=1&ie=UTF-

8
<b>Oxford Centre for Mission Studies</b>

The vast majority of Iraqis supported the coalition forces in their liberation of Iraq, insistsGeorges Sada, head of the International Centre for Reconciliation in Iraq....

......Sada, head of the International Centre for Reconciliation in Iraq, was ‘retired’ from the Army in 1991. In the first gulf war he had responsibility for prisoners of war but disobeyed direct orders from Saddam’s younger son Qusay, to execute Kuwaiti, British and American prisoners. He was thrown into prison later and is thankful to this day that his own life was not taken.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...02/wsadd02.xml
Saddam's son 'tried to have pilots executed'
BY Philip Sherwell in Baghdad
(Filed: 02/05/2004)

....Last week Mr Sada, an ethnic Assyrian and one of Iraq's leading lay Christians, revealed how Qusay paid an unexpected visit to the air force's emergency headquarters in a Baghdad bunker about a week after the air war started on January 17, 1991.....

...Mr Sada, once one of Iraq's top fighter pilots, already had a reputation for speaking his mind. He was forced to "retire" from the air force in 1986 for refusing to join the Ba'ath Party, only to be recalled in August 1990 after Saddam invaded Kuwait.

His intervention saved the foreign aircrew, but ended his air force career for the second time.

"I was detained at the end of January and then told I was being retired a few days later," he said. "It was made clear

that this was because I had stood up to Qusay."

<b>[2]</b>

http://www.ambassadoragency.com/aboutus.cfm

Ambassador is the oldest and most established Christian-based talent agency in the United States. The company was founded in 1973 by Wes Yoder to represent many of the emerging contemporary Christian music artists. During the next ten years Ambassador became the premiere agency for Christian musicians and artists.

Ambassador Speakers Bureau, (established in 1984) provides speakers for special program events nationwide. We are the leading provider of speakers for the Christian and faith-based community and conduct a thriving business providing speakers to university, education, non-profit, political and business meetings......

http://www.ambassadoragency.com/cate...tegories_id/20
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David Limbaugh - David is a nationally syndicated columnist with Creators Syndicate and involved in entertainment, business, and contract law. David Limbaugh David is a nationally syndicated columnist with Creators Syndicate and involved in entertainment, business, and contract law.

Chief Justice Roy Moore
Former Chief Justice Roy Moore, known as The Ten Commandments Judge, of Alabama, was removed from office for refusing to move a Ten Commandments monument from the Alabama Supreme Court building.

Janet Parshall
Parshall is the host of JANET PARSHALL'S AMERICA, a 3 hour nationally syndicated program from Washington D.C. that is one of the only conservative talk shows in America hosted by a woman. She speaks often on public policy issues that impact the family.

<a href="http://generalgeorgessada.ambassadoragency.com/client_profile.cfm/cid/1225?categories_id=20">General Georges Sada</a> - As an insider in Saddam Hussein's Iraq, General Georges Sada exposed plans to destroy Israel, hide WMDs and control the Arab World. General Sada defied and survived Saddam Hussein and is the author of Saddam's Secrets.

Judge Kenneth Starr
Judge Kenneth Starr is Dean of Pepperdine Law School and is a partner with the law firm of Kirkland & Ellis, P.C., specializing in appellate work.

<b>[3]</b>

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040...5306-8230r.htm
Iraq ponders amnesty for insurgents

By Jim Krane
ASSOCIATED PRESS

BAGHDAD — Less than a week after taking power, Iraq's prime minister is considering offering amnesty to insurgents and could extend it to those who killed American troops, in an apparent bid to lure Saddam Hussein's loyalists from their campaign of violence.

......."If [a guerrilla] was in opposition against the Americans, that will be justified because it was an occupation force," the spokesman, Georges Sada, said yesterday. "We will give them freedom."
Choking the brutal 14-month insurgency is the No. 1 priority of Mr. Allawi's government, and the prime minister is expected to make a number of security-related policy announcements in coming days. They also include the resurrection of Iraq's death penalty and an emergency law that sets curfews in Iraq's trouble spots, Mr. Sada said.
The amnesty plan is still in the works. A full pardon for insurgents who killed Americans is not a certainty, Mr. Sadasaid. Mr. Allawi's main goal is to "start everything from new" by giving a second chance to rebel fighters who hand in their weapons and throw their weight behind the new government........

<b>[4]</b>

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...s&ct=clnk&cd=1
Libel case pits huckster against professor
A California man who promoted diet pills and a phonics game is suing a George Fox professor
Wednesday, June 22, 2005
CHRISTINE DELLERT

A California man who promoted a widely advertised diet aid has filed an $11 million suit against a George Fox University professor, claiming that the professor's Web site attacking his credibility has damaged his reputation and ability to make a living.

Greg Cynaumon, former spokesman for the diet pill sold as CortiSlim, says in a suit filed in Multnomah County Circuit Court that professor Gary Adams has unfairly characterized his career as a television pitchman for the weight-loss
supplement and an educational program called "The Phonics Game."......

.......Calling the Web site "Internet terrorism," Cynaumon said he objects to Adams posting his picture on the site along with accusations that he's a liar.

"You can't just say what you want about people to further your agenda," he said.

Adams' personal Web site -- www.edresearch.com -- links users to last year's Federal Trade Commission's complaint against CortiSlim. On the site, he offers to pay the Better Business Bureau $1 million if Cynaumon can prove the diet pills work and also prove his published claims to be a marriage therapist, school psychologist and sociologist . Cynaumon isn't licensed as any of those professions in California. ........

.........Last October, the FTC charged Cynaumon's firm, Infinity Advertising Inc., and another Los Angeles-area marketer,

Window Rock Enterprises Inc., with falsely saying CortiSlim can cause weight loss. According to the FTC suit, CortiSlim ds were claiming virtually anyone taking the pill would lose 10 to 50 pounds, dropping four to 10 pounds a week over multiple weeks. The case is still pending, FTC officials said.
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2005/09/windowrock.htm

http://www.edresearch.com/IntergrityShame.htm
<b>Integrity Publishers
The publisher of Discover Your Child’s DQ Factor</b>

Integrity Publishers is also the publisher of books by well-known Christian authors such as <a href="http://www.integritypublishers.com/dept_browse.asp?deptid=22">Pat Robertson</a>, Max Lucado, Frank Peretti, and George Barna.

After the original report was posted on March 4, 2003, I contacted Integrity Publishers to inform them that Greg Cynaumon had duped them. I received a return phone call from Joey Paul, the publisher and senior vice president of Integrity Publishers. I told him about my report and that Mr. Cynaumon was not a psychologist, marriage and family therapist, or radio talk show host. Also, I told him that it was clear that Mr. Cynaumon had fabricated the study described in the book that his company published. Mr. Paul said that he would read my report and act accordingly.

After waiting two months, I contacted Joey Paul again. When I asked why the book was still on the market when it was clear that Mr. Cynaumon is not who he said he is and he had conducted the described study in their book. His response was, “I have nothing to talk to you about.” When I asked why not, he again repeated that he would not talk to me.

Recently, Mr. Cynaumon was required by the California Boards of Psychology and Behavioral Sciences to inform his publishers that he is not a psychologist or marriage and family therapist. However, as of September 29, 2004, they are still selling his book almost six months after they learned that Mr. Cynaumon is a fraud.......

<b>[5]</b>

http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_...04/addenda.pdf
Comprehensive Report
Addendums to the
of the Special Advisor to the DCI on
Iraq’s WMD

March 2005
Prewar Movement of WMD
Material Out of Iraq (page 4)

ISG was unable to complete its investigation and
is unable to rule out the possibility that WMD was
evacuated to Syria before the war. It should be
noted that no information from debriefi ng of Iraqis
in custody supports this possibility. ISG found no
senior policy, program, or intelligence officials who
admitted any direct knowledge of such movement of
WMD. Indeed, they uniformly denied any knowledge
of residual WMD that could have been secreted to
Syria.....

.......It is worth noting that even if ISG had been able to
fully examine all the leads it possessed, it is unlikely
that conclusive information would have been found.

[Seaver]

I dont know where or how you found all that Host, but thank you.

[xepherys]

Seaver: As the OP of the "Was Bush a Plant?" thread, I'll have you note it wasn't a "crackpot" writing... it was just an idea to toss out ther. *sigh* Let it die already...

As for the topic, it IS a matter of debate. I'm sorry, but weren't we selling weapons to Iraq in the 80's? I seem to remember this close tie we had and picture of Rumsfled shaking hands with Hussein. It's a matter of very little debate that Iraq did, in fact, have chemical weapons at least, and a broad array of WMDs at the worst. There's a reasonable debate that we sold them some of those, or at least shared technology with them to help them develop such. Ah how times have changed.

As for moving this to "Tilted Paranoia"... are you serious? So you only want to debate about things that are factual? That seems to pretty much defeat the purpose of having discussion threads.

I can see the hottest Poli thread topic being "George W. Bush is George H. W. Bush's son... discuss!?"

[ubertuber]

Originally Posted by Seaver

What would it take for you to believe that there is validity to this? The other ones moved to Paranoia because they were written by crackpots, I'd start to believe your threads if they were posted by a high ranking General/Admiral in our military.

I assure you that you don't know what you're talking about. Those threads were moved because of the direction they took, not because of who created them.

In the future, I'll thank you for not referring to other members as crackpots.

[Willravel]

TY Uber, but if he really wants people to believe I am a crackpot about the 9/11 stuff, he is more than welcome to come and visit me in paranoia and try to prove me wrong. Until he does that, his statements and name calling carry no weight with me. They called Einsetin a crackpot. How do you say crackpot in German?