HELL - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Eviltree · 05-27-2003, 04:35 PM

What are you feelings on hell? Is there such a place? What must you do/not do do get there, are there any way to escape, and suchforth.

Nin261 · 05-27-2003, 05:36 PM

Personally, I believe hell was designed to make good God-fearing Christians be good and go to Church. But that's my humble opinion. I think Bart Simpson made a good point when his Sunday school teacher was describing hell to her class:
Miss Allbright: Hell is a terrible place. Maggots are your sheet, worms your blanket, there's a lake of fire burning with sulfur. You'll be tormented day and night for ever and ever. As a matter of fact, if you actually saw hell, you'd be so frightened, you would die.
Bart: [raises his hand] Oh, Miss Allbright.
M.A.: Yes, Bart.
Bart: Wouldn't you eventually get used to it, like in a hot tub?

vermin · 05-27-2003, 05:38 PM

Yes, I think there is a hell, once you're there, there is no escape. My religion teaches that unless you accept the forgiveness of your sins offered by God (Jesus paid for your sins already through his perfect life, death, suffering in hell, and rising from the dead) you will damn yourself to hell. It's my religion because I believe that too.

PLEASE note: I am not a preacher, I don't want to come off as a christian loony trying to sermonize or make converts: he asked.

rogue49 · 05-27-2003, 05:42 PM

People create their own Hell

WhoaitsZ · 05-27-2003, 06:55 PM

I definatly believe in Hell. as for its enviroments, I can't say for sure. i believe if you never make your peace with God and go down a dark path, you may find yourself there.

I think God is a lot easier han many people believe...

as for fire and all. i think it is either a dark firery place of torment or a mental, personel hell like rogue said.

like... maybe our actions will somehow create our home when the body dies?

i am undecided on a whole...

Lebell · 05-27-2003, 07:35 PM

I tend to gravitate towards a C.S. Lewis version of Hell, that is, an absence of the presence of God that is self imposed.

Nothing I can envision is worse than that.

Mael · 05-27-2003, 07:37 PM

i believe in hell. i believe i'm living in it right now. otherwise, no, i don't think there's a hell. or a heaven. i don't think there's an afterlife of any kind.

i think the closest there could be to one is that when you are at the moment of your death, you're mind may blink to where you think/hope/know you'd end up if there were an afterlife, and since after that moment your dead, you essentially spend eternity in that one "blink" since there's nothing after it. but that's just a theory.

Killconey · 05-27-2003, 08:37 PM

The craziest thing about Hell is the fact that our perceptions of it are based entirely off of two works of fiction: Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost. Very few descriptions are given of Hell in the Bible, but the foundations of it seem to be based on fire. Christian philosophers and poets then took this vague concept of Hell and combined it with the lowest level of the Greek Hades in order to form a more vivid mental image. The Satan figure is another intriguing concept because Satan was first mentioned in the Bible as an alligorical accuser. I believe (but I'm no expert) that our word for Satan stems from the Hebrew word for accuser, similar to a prosecuting attorney.

All this to say that while I believe that there is a hell, I also believe that our perceptions of it are more than a little off. Hopefully, I'll never have to find out.

Lebell · 05-27-2003, 08:54 PM

Killconey,

Absolutely right. Don't forget that our classical pictures of the Devil were drawn straight from Pan and greek mythos while the Sumarian (?) god Baal is where Beelzebub comes from.

MSD · 05-27-2003, 10:48 PM

I believe in Hell as a state of mind and Reincarnation in place of an afterlife. I find no satisfaction in allowing a religion to tell me what is right or wrong. If others feel that religion is important to them and the truth, I won't tell them that they're wrong, because I might be.

However, I found an interesting description of hell in the Gnostic Gospels' Book, "The Apocalypse of Peter." If you believe in the Christian view of Jesus, and that the Gospel of Peter was actually writen by him, conveying the words of Jesus, then you should be afraid of what awaits you.

Quote:

21 And I saw also another place over against that one, very squalid; and it was a place of punishment, and they that were punished and the angels that punished them had their raiment dark, according to the air of the place. 22 And some there were there hanging by their tongues; and these were they that blasphemed the way of righteousness, and under them was laid fire flaming and tormenting them.

23 And there was a great lake full of flaming mire, wherein were certain men that turned away from righteousness; and angels, tormentors, were set over them.

24 And there were also others, women, hanged by their hair above that mire which boiled up; and these were they that adorned themselves for adultery.

And the men that were joined with them in the defilement of adultery were hanging by their feet, and had their heads hidden in the mire, and said: We believed not that we should come unto this place.

25 And I saw the murderers and them that were consenting to them cast into a strait place full of evil, creeping things, and smitten by those beasts, and so turning themselves about in that torment. And upon them were set worms like clouds of darkness. And the souls of them that were murdered stood and looked upon the torment of those murderers and said: O God, righteous is thy judgement.

26 And hard by that place I saw another strait place wherein the discharge and the stench of them that were in torment ran down, and there was as it were a lake there. And there sat women up to their necks in that liquor, and over against them many children which were born out of due time sat crying: and from them went forth rays of fire and smote the women in the eyes: and these were they that conceived out of wedlock (?) and caused abortion.

27 And other men and women were being burned up to their middle and cast down in a dark place and scourged by evil spirits, and having their entrails devoured by worms that rested not. And these were they that had persecuted the righteous and delivered them up.

28 And near to them again were women and men gnawing their lips and in torment, and having iron heated in the fire set against their eyes. And these were they that did blaspheme and speak evil of the way of righteousness.

29 And over against these were yet others, men and women, gnawing their tongues and having flaming fire in their mouths. And these were the false witnesses.

30 And in another place were gravel-stones sharper than swords or any spit, heated with fire, and men and women clad in filthy rags rolled upon them in torment. [This is suggested by the LXX of two passages in Job: xli. 30, his bed is of sharp spits; viii. 17, on an heap of stones doth he rest, and shall live in the midst of gravel-stones.] And these were they that were rich and trusted in their riches, and had no pity upon orphans and widows but neglected the commandments of God.

31 And in another great lake full of foul matter (pus) and blood and boiling mire stood men and women up to their knees And these were they that lent money and demanded usury upon usury.

32 And other men and women being cast down from a great rock (precipice) fell (came) to the bottom, and again were driven by them that were set over them, to go up upon the rock, and thence were cast down to the bottom and had no rest from this torment. And these were they that did defile their bodies behaving as women: and the women that were with them were they that lay with one another as a man with a woman.

33 And beside that rock was a place full of much fire, and there stood men which with their own hands had made images for themselves instead of God, [And beside them other men and women] having rods of fire and smiting one another and never resting from this manner of torment....

34 And yet others near unto them, men and women, burning and turning themselves about and roasted as in a pan. And these were they that forsook the way of God.

BBtB · 05-27-2003, 11:50 PM

I believe in the jewish hell. Which is to say jews don't really believe in hell. The believe that if you lived an evil life when you die you basically cease to exist. This makes the most sense to me. I do not believe everyone can get to heaven. But I do not see why God would see a purpose in hell. I mean to punish the wicked? But to what avail? They can't repent. They can never see error in their ways. I mean even when we do such things (Prison and what not) we either try to see what you did wrong and come back OR if nothing else you are made as an example for others. But with the exception of a few vauge and questionable examples people never see hell before they are there. So what is the use of it? Wouldn't God just see the point in letting these people just cease to exist? What would he be trying to prove? But thats just one mans opinon.

rth9821 · 05-28-2003, 02:30 AM

The concept of Hell is the primary reason why I could never accept Christianity. The best contemporary explanation of Hell is torment beyond imagination, ad infinitum. Now, I cant think a single person past or present that would deserve that.

Of course, it's debatable for a handful of people, Hitler, Dahmer, and others, as I can understand the desire for punishment to have an especially nasty supernatural twist.

However, what about Joe Atheist? Moral and good, but not "good + God", yet it's unclear if he gets to spend eternity with the company of serial killers.

How have some of you Christians reconciled this issue? What are your thoughts?

phyzix525 · 05-28-2003, 01:01 PM

I have done some research on this subject. In the Bible the new testament where Jesus refers to hell he is refering to the area outside of the city gates where they burned trash. If you were a homeless person and you died, they would just through your body into the fire. It was a disgrace, that your life that your meant nothing. Nobody cared enough to properly burry you. So in his parables he would refer to that place to give them a visual of what it is like if you do not accept him. That said, I do believe a Hell exists, but not for humans. Hell was created for Satan and his followers (demons) I cannot fathom a loving God creating Man knowing that a vast majority of them would not believe and therefore burn in hell forever. to give you an example I have a daughter (mankind), if she grows up and moves in with a guy(satan). He tells her all sorts of things like she is no longer my daughter and that I don't exist and that he loves her more then I do. And she grows to hate me and tells me that I am no longer her father and rebels against me. She is still my daughter. Nothing can change that. I would not want to punish her because of it, on the contrary I would want to punish the guy who told her these things. Now if I decide that I don't believe in God does that make me not his son? Am I that important that I could change that? No. So if you die a non-believer I believe you simply cease to exist. Your soul/spirit dies or at least is separated from God. I just can't see tourchoring your children because they were misled by Satan. Well thats my view anyway

Conclamo Ludus · 05-28-2003, 04:11 PM

"Anybody can make a heaven of hell, or a hell out of heaven."

-Wish I knew who's quote this was. Anyone know?

I think heaven and hell are just cenceptual extremes. Do they exist? As much as you want them too. I do believe afterlife is a possibility but as far as there being a line drawn in the sand that says, good over here, bad over there...I doubt it. People are much more complex than just being good or just being evil enough for them to be put in one or the other, that's why purgatory makes a little more sense. I think much of it is made up to entertain our curiousities and fears of death though.

nate_dawg · 05-28-2003, 06:10 PM

I dont believe in heaven or hell or god or any of that

but

I've always thought it'd be funny if people had it backwards.
what if satan is really "god" and he is "tempting" you to join him, whereas god is really "satan" and he is trying to lure you to heaven (hell) by saying that satan (god) is the evil one?

most people just give me a dumbfounded look when I present this theory to them

Lebell · 05-28-2003, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nate_dawg
I've always thought it'd be funny if people had it backwards.
what if satan is really "god" and he is "tempting" you to join him, whereas god is really "satan" and he is trying to lure you to heaven (hell) by saying that satan (god) is the evil one?

most people just give me a dumbfounded look when I present this theory to them

You might enjoy the book "Job" by Robert Heinlein then

gonadman · 05-28-2003, 08:19 PM

Hope I don't burn in HELL for this but...

It would seem that at the very origins of society, a tool would be needed by those who would like control, to wield over their followers and thus keep them in line. What more perfect tool than the promise of eternal happiness/reward for obeying the law and leading a "good"(i.e. compliant) life, and eternal pain and suffering and torture for leading a "bad"(noncompliant) life? Furthermore, there would be no need to ever prove the existance of these entities because one is supposed to rely on "faith"(i.e. the absence of objective evidence) to maintain the belief.

Thus the perfect tool was created, and most governing entities throughout time have exploited it in one way or another.

Just a thought...

duckduck · 05-28-2003, 08:50 PM

I also tend to agree with Lebell's statement of C.S. Lewis. Hell is the absence of God.

Loki · 05-29-2003, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogue49
People create their own Hell

Hell is a state of mind.

sadistikdreams · 05-29-2003, 05:43 PM

I agree with Loki. And i believe god is a crutch for crazy people... hmm. and hell is a wheelchair for the american.

oops, got my ticket to hell. feh!

queedo · 05-29-2003, 07:17 PM

Hell is a place that Catholics invented to make sure people did what they wanted.

Killconey · 05-30-2003, 08:52 AM

In response to rth9821, I would actually have to agree with him. Hell is one of the most major stumbling blocks to my Christianity and honestly I haven't really found a way to deal with it yet. Christians who claim to be at peace with the idea of Hell are either sadists or fools who haven't really thought it through. No one can be at peace with eternal damnation for anyone.

gov135 · 05-30-2003, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by queedo
Hell is a place that Catholics invented to make sure people did what they wanted.

Catholics weren't the first, and they are certainly not the only.

I believe hell 'exists'. I don't believe in any of the structured rules to get there or stay out of there. We don't know what hell is, so you can't make ground rules. I just believe that if you are sorry for the hurt you have caused, and make an effort to bring good to others you won't find out about hell.

Ohhh... and maybe hell is a place where no Cleveland sports team has won a major sports title for decades and decades but often come close.... hey, wait a sec....

Macheath · 05-30-2003, 09:37 PM

I hate the idea of a hell that is a physical place where you are sent to be physically tortured after failing to follow strict rules set by the religion, regardless of your ethical life outside the Church. This seems mostly to be a mechanism for social control that can be expolited by dishonest church leaders.

I prefer the idea of hell as a state of mind; where you are forced to actively and honestly engage with the ethical system on which your life was based.

I find Dante's first circle of hell interesting; there lives the philosophers from the Clasical tradition and other virtuous figures (Virgil, Homer, Euclid, Seneca, Orpheus, Hippocrates, Saladin, etc), whose only sin was to live a life without Baptism or Christianity.

In the first circle is a stately castle of seven walls, possibly representing the liberal virtues of prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

On one occasion, God offered a kind of "amnesty" to various unbaptized denizens of the first circle (Noah, David, Abraham, Israel, Rachel, Abel, Moses), made them blessed and brought them to Heaven.

The only punishment in the first circle is the pain of living in the knowledge and desire to see God but without the hope of ever seeing God.

No maggots, bees, flames, ice, lava or any of that other nonsense in the first circle.

GoldenOuroboros · 06-01-2003, 01:21 AM

Hell is the mere grave.. tis what I learned.. so it's only 6ft down

The version of hell that you all speak of was created to make men fear god so that they would be forced to come to church.

Bob Biter · 06-02-2003, 12:25 PM

As was mentioned before, hell is a state of mind. You may have lived a virtuous life in general, but still be stuck in a bad place after your death if there are things you haven't dealt with, but which you feel bad about.

Basically, I believe that death is simply an extended dream. When you sleep, your subconscious is freed and your inner hopes, fears an desires come out. Sometimes, when you feel bad about something, you have nightmares. To me, hell is one's own personal, extended nightmare. Those who die with a clear conscience may have a blissful afterlife, no matter what they did. Since dying means never waking up, then I guess whatever blissful/hellish scenario one thinks up will repeat itself ad infinitum.

All I'm saying is I'm gonna make sure to die with a clear conscience (if that's possible) and that true hell is the repetition of our shortcomings.

Although, seeing "Jacob's Ladder" has definitely given me some food for thought.

Microphonic · 06-04-2003, 10:07 PM

I refuse to believe in Hell because it creates the impression that there is "one true way". Assume for a moment that Catholics are correct and that theirs is the only way to Heaven, then what about the Native American who were never even exposed to it? Were they born into damnation? Was their fate sealed from birth? You'll have to excuse the pun, but I pray that is not so. If any one religion were correct, and anyone who did not follow their exact beliefs went to hell then hell would be a lot more crowded than heaven wouldn't it?

Mel · 06-05-2003, 02:12 AM

I don't believe in Hell.. Hell is a place created by religions to scare people into doing what they believe is right :I - to me anyway. But then again there is a lot of scary stuff in the world, and where does that come from?

tiberry · 06-05-2003, 02:49 AM

Let's bend the rules of philosophy a bit and inject some fact -

HELL. A word used in the King James Version (as well as in the Catholic Douay Version and most older translations) to translate the Hebrew sheol and the Greek hades. In the King James Version the word "hell" is rendered from sheol' 31 times and from hades 10 times. This version is not consistent, however, since sheol' is also translated 31 times "grave and 3 times "pit." In the Douay Version sheol' is rendered "hell" 64 times, "pit" once, and "death" once.

In 1885, with the publication of the complete English Revised Version, the original word sheol' was in many places transliterated into the English text of the Hebrew Scriptures, though, in most occurrences, "grave" and "pit" were used, and "hell" is found some 14 times. This was a point of which the American committee disagreed with the British revisers, and so when producing the American Standard Version (1901) they transliterate sheol' in all 65 of its appearances. Both versions transliterated hades in the Christian Greek Scriptures in all ten of its occurrences, though the Greek word Gehenna (English, "Gehenna") is rendered "hell" throughout, as is true of many other modern translations.
Concerning this use of "hell" to translate these original words from the Hebrew and Greek, Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 2, p. 187) says: "HADES . . . It corresponds to 'Sheol' in the O.T. [Old Testament]. In the A.V. of the O.T. [Old Testament] and N.T. [New Testament], it has been unhappily rendered 'Hell.'"

Collier's Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says concerning "Hell": "First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word 'hell,' as understood today, is not a happy translation."

It is, in fact, because of the way that the word "hell" is understood today that it is such an unsatisfactory translation of these original Bible words. Webster's Third New International Dictionary, unabridged, under "Hell" says: "fr[om] . . . helan to conceal." The word "hell" thus originally conveyed no thought of heat or torment but simply of a 'covered over or concealed place.' In the old English dialect the expression "helling potatoes" meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar. The meaning given today to the word "hell" is that portrayed in Dante's Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word. The idea of a "hell" of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under "Hell" says: "Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment." The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the "nether world . . . as a place full of horrors, . . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness." Although ancient Egyptian religious texts do not teach that the burning of any individual victim would go on forever, they do portray the "Other World" as featuring "pits of fire" for "the damned."--The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, by Morris Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 581 The Book of the Dead, with introduction by E. Wallis Budge, 1960, pp. 135, 144, 149, 151, 153, 161, 200.

seventhtao · 06-05-2003, 04:56 AM

I think the catholic view of this is a rather childish one.

If you want to go Disneyland (Heaven) then you must be good. If you aren't your going to get a time-out (Purgatory). And if you are really naughty you are permanently grounded (Hell).

Who doesn't want to go to Disneyland? Yet another tool by which to control you. More strings to make you dance.

If a Supreme Being exists and it created a flawed world so that you may expereince free-will then it must show more compassion than a Hell would imply he had. At least if it wants any kind of support/worship from me.

Consider: Joe Schmoe is born into this world a drug addict thanks to his crackhead mom. She loses him because she is unfit. Joe is taken care of by his drunk uncle who has a nasty tendency to sexually abuse him. Joe is not a very intellectual person due to his being a crack baby. Said crack baby is taunted and occassionally beaten by his peers. Joe eventually tries crack. It is a euphoric feeling he cannot resist. Being the only somewhat sustainable and controllable joy he has expereinced so far he becomes obsessed with perpetuating it. During one of his frequent crime spree's (to obtain money for the one thing that brings him pleasure) he is shot and killed by police.

Is Joe Evil? Does Joe diserve to go to a Hell?

It would seem the cards are just stacked against some people from the get go. And this is the work of compasionate loving God?

I either believe in some form of reincarnation, eternal peaceful nothingness, or something beyond my comprehension.

Any hell that exists is self imposed. If not then I say fuck God and the horse he rode in on. I'd rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.

jyearwoo · 06-05-2003, 07:06 AM

Just a couple of thoughts here. I can't believe in a hell as a place of physical torture. My logic here is simple. Your spirit, soul, etc. is what would pass to hell. The soul is metaphysical or exists in the land of no-thingness, which means it has no mass. Ok, if a soul has no physical mass, how can it be physically tortured? You could burn a soul all you want, and you aren't going to hurt it. I believe the idea of hell would be spiritual torture, and they described this torture with the most painful thing they could imagine at the time, Fire.

I believe in reincarnation, cycles to reach enlightenment and finally union with God. Hence going to heaven. Hell, in my opinion, would be never reaching it.

After reading tiberry's post (excuse me, I am going to try to think this out), the explanation of what the word hell really meant in alot of cases pit, grave, etc. makes sense to me. I have always thought that "ghost" are souls that after detaching from the body, for some reason, did not leave our world. Eastern philosohies teach Non-Attachment as a catalyst for achieving enlightenment. If something causes a spirit to "attach" to our realm and not move on, this could be spiritually tormenting, hence a hell. I believe, with reincarnation, you basically keep doing it until you learned what you needed to become one with God, so logically being "attached" and not moving on would be the opposite of Heaven, hence Hell.

This is just my rant, and I will have to think about it further. But it does tend to make sense to me.

THE MAC GOD · 06-05-2003, 09:19 AM

I think that hell is relative to the person... most Christians have the image of a lake of fire... while maybe true, I believe for Christians that HELL is the realization of separation from God... and that you will forever remain that way.

(vixen) · 06-09-2003, 03:51 PM

i think hell is, your forced to relive your own mistakes, anything you feel guilty, ashamed or generally wouldnt do again. stuff like that time at primary school you made a girl cry. all the times as a teenager you told your mum you hated her. over and over, and you just have those feelings, nothing else, and you cant change what happens, your forced to watch the hurt youve caused from every angle, how every person hasbeen affected. just a never ending cycle of internal turmoil, made all the worse because its self inflicted. on and on, hating yourself forever.

SuperMidget · 06-12-2003, 08:27 PM

As for wether or not hell exists, I have no meaningful insights, or anything that can compare to the quality of all the preceeding posts.

However, I have one question. So far everyone is discussing hell in religious terms/intent. - Suppose hell has nothing to do with religion, or the way you lead your life, perhaps it is merely a matter of physics? Say you have two opposite types of energy, good and bad (however you wish to define it). And a soul (for lack of a better/more precise word) just goes to whichever energy pole has less energy/souls.

Tha Sewer · 06-13-2003, 01:30 AM

how could anyone who truly believes in God believe in hell? Do you think God would really send people he created and loves into a place of eternal "hell-fire"...bullshit. hell, IMO, is a state we put ourselves into. if you dont believe in God and you continually do "ungodly" things then yeah...maybe you will be sent to hell but more of a personal hell on earth. i know that i've gone through what would be my hell several times. im not saying that if you dont believe in God then youre gonna have a shitty life and face "hell" for it. but im saying that if you do believe in God and you know youre not doing what you believe is right, then subconsciously, youre thinking "i might be goin to hell" which IMO will start a downward spiral in this life and eventually lead you to a hell on earth.

and as for hell not being religious...i dont think there would even be a "hell" if religion hadnt brought it up in the first place.

if there is a hell after death, then i'll be re-living 12 years of catholic school, going to church quite a bit and reading the bible an awful lot. now, wouldnt that be heaven for some people?

i believe when you die you go where everybody else goes. the next life...not heaven, but the next life. a non-physical life. if you did bad shit in this life, then you pick up and start again in the next and try to catch up with everyone who didnt do all the "evil" stuff you did.

FallenAvatar · 06-13-2003, 09:39 AM

I quote David Draiman of Disturbed. "Hell doesn't exist, hell is a bed times story parents tell thier children to scare them to sleep."
So it can't exist if you don't believe..

Antagony · 06-14-2003, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
I tend to gravitate towards a C.S. Lewis version of Hell, that is, an absence of the presence of God that is self imposed.

Nothing I can envision is worse than that.

Holy crap, don't give credit for that to C.S. Lewis. Either give that credit to the authors of the Bible or possibly to Milton. But most certainly not to C.S. Lewis. He was just exploring an avenue already taken by many.

But yes, putting on my theology hat, I'd say that might be the best answer.

And not just because of Christianity. If you look at all religious texts as literature, this is a theme found in all of them. Absence of God and/or enlightenment and/or peace is what Hell is. Religious or not, this applies to everyone.

I will also note that many religions/belief systems make the logical assertation that our earthly lives are Hell and that we must strive to change this. Not too dissimilar from literal Christian interpretation, I suppose, but a different angle.

rat · 06-14-2003, 10:14 PM

Personally think Hell is a sinner's place to sin. Basically, the most extreme parts of Las Vegas (gambling, lust, indulgence, excess) combined with the most lurid and perverted fantasies of the human mind. It's a place that any "morally upright" person would be sickened and repulsed by, and a place where I would be right at home

Lebell · 06-14-2003, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Antagony
Holy crap, don't give credit for that to C.S. Lewis. Either give that credit to the authors of the Bible or possibly to Milton. But most certainly not to C.S. Lewis. He was just exploring an avenue already taken by many.

But yes, putting on my theology hat, I'd say that might be the best answer.

And not just because of Christianity. If you look at all religious texts as literature, this is a theme found in all of them. Absence of God and/or enlightenment and/or peace is what Hell is. Religious or not, this applies to everyone.

I will also note that many religions/belief systems make the logical assertation that our earthly lives are Hell and that we must strive to change this. Not too dissimilar from literal Christian interpretation, I suppose, but a different angle.

lol,

Don't freak out man, I know C.S. Lewis didn't invent that particular view.

I should have been clearer and said that he wrote about Hell in this fashion with some interesting ideas added to it, which I found extremely interesting.

DMan49 · 06-15-2003, 09:26 AM

This is a theory I've poured over with some of my friends - It is supposed to be based on some of the stories of revelations - however, we often confuse/misinterpret what is really being said. With that I say this is only a theory. Supposedly, in the not too distant future the entire world will unite under one world-wide government. This case is plausible considering the intense move to global economies and world-wide realtime communication. In the meantime, global warming (if you believe any of that) will continue to worsen as will the depletion of natural resources and water. At the time of the single world government, the people will be asked to take the sign of the new leader (could be tracking device, retina, etc.) to join the society. At this time, the people who brought us to this planet (i.e. religious figures, aliens, what have you) will return to earth ("descend from the heavens"). Those that have not taken the mark of the new society will be asked to leave with them on their ships/etc and 'save' them from the plight of earth. while those who have taken the mark will have to remain on the resource striken and much warmer planet. The heat and other natural disaster will form what we refer to as hell. So hell is really earth in the future when the temperature has risen and other problems plague the earth. Those who leave will join another society elsewhere in the universe while those who took the "sign of the devil" will have to live our their lives in hell.
This is an interesting theory that answers several of mankind's most challenging questions. There is also some fact and real-life interpretations involved. Think about it for yourself - I am not religious at all, but I think the story of the bible has some merit although its meaning has become lost/misinterpreted. Let me know what you think.

05-27-2003, 04:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Eviltree Psycho Location: British Columbia	HELL What are you feelings on hell? Is there such a place? What must you do/not do do get there, are there any way to escape, and suchforth.

05-27-2003, 05:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
Nin261 Upright	Personally, I believe hell was designed to make good God-fearing Christians be good and go to Church. But that's my humble opinion. I think Bart Simpson made a good point when his Sunday school teacher was describing hell to her class: Miss Allbright: Hell is a terrible place. Maggots are your sheet, worms your blanket, there's a lake of fire burning with sulfur. You'll be tormented day and night for ever and ever. As a matter of fact, if you actually saw hell, you'd be so frightened, you would die. Bart: [raises his hand] Oh, Miss Allbright. M.A.: Yes, Bart. Bart: Wouldn't you eventually get used to it, like in a hot tub? __________________ Beware the fury of a patient man.

05-27-2003, 05:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
vermin Indifferent to anti-matter Location: Tucson, AZ	Yes, I think there is a hell, once you're there, there is no escape. My religion teaches that unless you accept the forgiveness of your sins offered by God (Jesus paid for your sins already through his perfect life, death, suffering in hell, and rising from the dead) you will damn yourself to hell. It's my religion because I believe that too. PLEASE note: I am not a preacher, I don't want to come off as a christian loony trying to sermonize or make converts: he asked. __________________ If puns were sausages, this would be the wurst.

05-27-2003, 07:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I tend to gravitate towards a C.S. Lewis version of Hell, that is, an absence of the presence of God that is self imposed. Nothing I can envision is worse than that. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

05-27-2003, 08:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
Killconey Crazy Location: Various places in the Midwest, all depending on when I'm posting.	The craziest thing about Hell is the fact that our perceptions of it are based entirely off of two works of fiction: Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost. Very few descriptions are given of Hell in the Bible, but the foundations of it seem to be based on fire. Christian philosophers and poets then took this vague concept of Hell and combined it with the lowest level of the Greek Hades in order to form a more vivid mental image. The Satan figure is another intriguing concept because Satan was first mentioned in the Bible as an alligorical accuser. I believe (but I'm no expert) that our word for Satan stems from the Hebrew word for accuser, similar to a prosecuting attorney. All this to say that while I believe that there is a hell, I also believe that our perceptions of it are more than a little off. Hopefully, I'll never have to find out. __________________ Look out for numbers two and up and they'll look out for you.

05-27-2003, 05:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	People create their own Hell

05-27-2003, 06:55 PM	#5 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	I definatly believe in Hell. as for its enviroments, I can't say for sure. i believe if you never make your peace with God and go down a dark path, you may find yourself there. I think God is a lot easier han many people believe... as for fire and all. i think it is either a dark firery place of torment or a mental, personel hell like rogue said. like... maybe our actions will somehow create our home when the body dies? i am undecided on a whole...

05-27-2003, 07:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mael Banned Location: The Hell I Created.	i believe in hell. i believe i'm living in it right now. otherwise, no, i don't think there's a hell. or a heaven. i don't think there's an afterlife of any kind. i think the closest there could be to one is that when you are at the moment of your death, you're mind may blink to where you think/hope/know you'd end up if there were an afterlife, and since after that moment your dead, you essentially spend eternity in that one "blink" since there's nothing after it. but that's just a theory.

05-27-2003, 08:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Killconey, Absolutely right. Don't forget that our classical pictures of the Devil were drawn straight from Pan and greek mythos while the Sumarian (?) god Baal is where Beelzebub comes from. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

05-27-2003, 11:50 PM	#11 (permalink)
BBtB ClerkMan! Location: Tulsa, Ok.	I believe in the jewish hell. Which is to say jews don't really believe in hell. The believe that if you lived an evil life when you die you basically cease to exist. This makes the most sense to me. I do not believe everyone can get to heaven. But I do not see why God would see a purpose in hell. I mean to punish the wicked? But to what avail? They can't repent. They can never see error in their ways. I mean even when we do such things (Prison and what not) we either try to see what you did wrong and come back OR if nothing else you are made as an example for others. But with the exception of a few vauge and questionable examples people never see hell before they are there. So what is the use of it? Wouldn't God just see the point in letting these people just cease to exist? What would he be trying to prove? But thats just one mans opinon. __________________ Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ... "I would like about three fiddy"

05-28-2003, 02:30 AM	#12 (permalink)
rth9821 Upright	The concept of Hell is the primary reason why I could never accept Christianity. The best contemporary explanation of Hell is torment beyond imagination, ad infinitum. Now, I cant think a single person past or present that would deserve that. Of course, it's debatable for a handful of people, Hitler, Dahmer, and others, as I can understand the desire for punishment to have an especially nasty supernatural twist. However, what about Joe Atheist? Moral and good, but not "good + God", yet it's unclear if he gets to spend eternity with the company of serial killers. How have some of you Christians reconciled this issue? What are your thoughts?

05-28-2003, 01:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
phyzix525 Psycho Location: Broken Arrow, OK	I have done some research on this subject. In the Bible the new testament where Jesus refers to hell he is refering to the area outside of the city gates where they burned trash. If you were a homeless person and you died, they would just through your body into the fire. It was a disgrace, that your life that your meant nothing. Nobody cared enough to properly burry you. So in his parables he would refer to that place to give them a visual of what it is like if you do not accept him. That said, I do believe a Hell exists, but not for humans. Hell was created for Satan and his followers (demons) I cannot fathom a loving God creating Man knowing that a vast majority of them would not believe and therefore burn in hell forever. to give you an example I have a daughter (mankind), if she grows up and moves in with a guy(satan). He tells her all sorts of things like she is no longer my daughter and that I don't exist and that he loves her more then I do. And she grows to hate me and tells me that I am no longer her father and rebels against me. She is still my daughter. Nothing can change that. I would not want to punish her because of it, on the contrary I would want to punish the guy who told her these things. Now if I decide that I don't believe in God does that make me not his son? Am I that important that I could change that? No. So if you die a non-believer I believe you simply cease to exist. Your soul/spirit dies or at least is separated from God. I just can't see tourchoring your children because they were misled by Satan. Well thats my view anyway __________________ It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

05-28-2003, 04:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	"Anybody can make a heaven of hell, or a hell out of heaven." -Wish I knew who's quote this was. Anyone know? I think heaven and hell are just cenceptual extremes. Do they exist? As much as you want them too. I do believe afterlife is a possibility but as far as there being a line drawn in the sand that says, good over here, bad over there...I doubt it. People are much more complex than just being good or just being evil enough for them to be put in one or the other, that's why purgatory makes a little more sense. I think much of it is made up to entertain our curiousities and fears of death though. __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

05-28-2003, 06:10 PM	#15 (permalink)
nate_dawg Crazy	I dont believe in heaven or hell or god or any of that but I've always thought it'd be funny if people had it backwards. what if satan is really "god" and he is "tempting" you to join him, whereas god is really "satan" and he is trying to lure you to heaven (hell) by saying that satan (god) is the evil one? most people just give me a dumbfounded look when I present this theory to them

05-28-2003, 08:19 PM	#17 (permalink)
gonadman Psycho Location: Philly	Hope I don't burn in HELL for this but... It would seem that at the very origins of society, a tool would be needed by those who would like control, to wield over their followers and thus keep them in line. What more perfect tool than the promise of eternal happiness/reward for obeying the law and leading a "good"(i.e. compliant) life, and eternal pain and suffering and torture for leading a "bad"(noncompliant) life? Furthermore, there would be no need to ever prove the existance of these entities because one is supposed to rely on "faith"(i.e. the absence of objective evidence) to maintain the belief. Thus the perfect tool was created, and most governing entities throughout time have exploited it in one way or another. Just a thought... __________________ For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel, looking, looking, ...breathlessly. -Carlos Castaneda

05-28-2003, 08:50 PM	#18 (permalink)
duckduck Psycho Location: Where hockey pucks run rampant	I also tend to agree with Lebell's statement of C.S. Lewis. Hell is the absence of God. __________________ Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way!

05-29-2003, 05:43 PM	#20 (permalink)
sadistikdreams lonely rolling star Location: Seattle.	I agree with Loki. And i believe god is a crutch for crazy people... hmm. and hell is a wheelchair for the american. oops, got my ticket to hell. feh! __________________ "Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials." -Lin Yutang hearts, by d.a.

05-29-2003, 07:17 PM	#21 (permalink)
queedo Shodan	Hell is a place that Catholics invented to make sure people did what they wanted. __________________ If you think you can or you can't, you are right!

05-30-2003, 08:52 AM	#22 (permalink)
Killconey Crazy Location: Various places in the Midwest, all depending on when I'm posting.	In response to rth9821, I would actually have to agree with him. Hell is one of the most major stumbling blocks to my Christianity and honestly I haven't really found a way to deal with it yet. Christians who claim to be at peace with the idea of Hell are either sadists or fools who haven't really thought it through. No one can be at peace with eternal damnation for anyone. __________________ Look out for numbers two and up and they'll look out for you.

05-30-2003, 09:37 PM	#24 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	I hate the idea of a hell that is a physical place where you are sent to be physically tortured after failing to follow strict rules set by the religion, regardless of your ethical life outside the Church. This seems mostly to be a mechanism for social control that can be expolited by dishonest church leaders. I prefer the idea of hell as a state of mind; where you are forced to actively and honestly engage with the ethical system on which your life was based. I find Dante's first circle of hell interesting; there lives the philosophers from the Clasical tradition and other virtuous figures (Virgil, Homer, Euclid, Seneca, Orpheus, Hippocrates, Saladin, etc), whose only sin was to live a life without Baptism or Christianity. In the first circle is a stately castle of seven walls, possibly representing the liberal virtues of prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, wisdom, knowledge and understanding. On one occasion, God offered a kind of "amnesty" to various unbaptized denizens of the first circle (Noah, David, Abraham, Israel, Rachel, Abel, Moses), made them blessed and brought them to Heaven. The only punishment in the first circle is the pain of living in the knowledge and desire to see God but without the hope of ever seeing God. No maggots, bees, flames, ice, lava or any of that other nonsense in the first circle.

06-01-2003, 01:21 AM	#25 (permalink)
GoldenOuroboros The Cheshire Grin... Location: An Aussie Outback	Hell is the mere grave.. tis what I learned.. so it's only 6ft down The version of hell that you all speak of was created to make men fear god so that they would be forced to come to church. __________________ Can you see me grin grin grrriiiiinnnning?!

06-02-2003, 12:25 PM	#26 (permalink)
Bob Biter Non-smokers die everyday Location: Montreal	As was mentioned before, hell is a state of mind. You may have lived a virtuous life in general, but still be stuck in a bad place after your death if there are things you haven't dealt with, but which you feel bad about. Basically, I believe that death is simply an extended dream. When you sleep, your subconscious is freed and your inner hopes, fears an desires come out. Sometimes, when you feel bad about something, you have nightmares. To me, hell is one's own personal, extended nightmare. Those who die with a clear conscience may have a blissful afterlife, no matter what they did. Since dying means never waking up, then I guess whatever blissful/hellish scenario one thinks up will repeat itself ad infinitum. All I'm saying is I'm gonna make sure to die with a clear conscience (if that's possible) and that true hell is the repetition of our shortcomings. Although, seeing "Jacob's Ladder" has definitely given me some food for thought. __________________ A plan is just a list of things that don't happen.

06-04-2003, 10:07 PM	#27 (permalink)
Microphonic Upright	I refuse to believe in Hell because it creates the impression that there is "one true way". Assume for a moment that Catholics are correct and that theirs is the only way to Heaven, then what about the Native American who were never even exposed to it? Were they born into damnation? Was their fate sealed from birth? You'll have to excuse the pun, but I pray that is not so. If any one religion were correct, and anyone who did not follow their exact beliefs went to hell then hell would be a lot more crowded than heaven wouldn't it?

06-05-2003, 02:12 AM	#28 (permalink)
Mel Tilted Location: Auckland	I don't believe in Hell.. Hell is a place created by religions to scare people into doing what they believe is right :I - to me anyway. But then again there is a lot of scary stuff in the world, and where does that come from? __________________ And in my darkest moment, fetal and weeping. The moon tells me a secret. My confidant. As full and bright as I am, this light is not my own and A million light reflections pass over me It's source is bright and endless. She resuscitates the hopeless Without her we are lifeless satellites drifting

06-05-2003, 02:49 AM	#29 (permalink)
tiberry Insane Location: Location, Location!	Let's bend the rules of philosophy a bit and inject some fact - HELL. A word used in the King James Version (as well as in the Catholic Douay Version and most older translations) to translate the Hebrew sheol and the Greek hades. In the King James Version the word "hell" is rendered from sheol' 31 times and from hades 10 times. This version is not consistent, however, since sheol' is also translated 31 times "grave and 3 times "pit." In the Douay Version sheol' is rendered "hell" 64 times, "pit" once, and "death" once. In 1885, with the publication of the complete English Revised Version, the original word sheol' was in many places transliterated into the English text of the Hebrew Scriptures, though, in most occurrences, "grave" and "pit" were used, and "hell" is found some 14 times. This was a point of which the American committee disagreed with the British revisers, and so when producing the American Standard Version (1901) they transliterate sheol' in all 65 of its appearances. Both versions transliterated hades in the Christian Greek Scriptures in all ten of its occurrences, though the Greek word Gehenna (English, "Gehenna") is rendered "hell" throughout, as is true of many other modern translations. Concerning this use of "hell" to translate these original words from the Hebrew and Greek, Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 2, p. 187) says: "HADES . . . It corresponds to 'Sheol' in the O.T. [Old Testament]. In the A.V. of the O.T. [Old Testament] and N.T. [New Testament], it has been unhappily rendered 'Hell.'" Collier's Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says concerning "Hell": "First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word 'hell,' as understood today, is not a happy translation." It is, in fact, because of the way that the word "hell" is understood today that it is such an unsatisfactory translation of these original Bible words. Webster's Third New International Dictionary, unabridged, under "Hell" says: "fr[om] . . . helan to conceal." The word "hell" thus originally conveyed no thought of heat or torment but simply of a 'covered over or concealed place.' In the old English dialect the expression "helling potatoes" meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar. The meaning given today to the word "hell" is that portrayed in Dante's Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word. The idea of a "hell" of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under "Hell" says: "Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment." The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the "nether world . . . as a place full of horrors, . . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness." Although ancient Egyptian religious texts do not teach that the burning of any individual victim would go on forever, they do portray the "Other World" as featuring "pits of fire" for "the damned."--The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, by Morris Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 581 The Book of the Dead, with introduction by E. Wallis Budge, 1960, pp. 135, 144, 149, 151, 153, 161, 200. __________________ My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.

06-05-2003, 04:56 AM	#30 (permalink)
seventhtao Upright	I think the catholic view of this is a rather childish one. If you want to go Disneyland (Heaven) then you must be good. If you aren't your going to get a time-out (Purgatory). And if you are really naughty you are permanently grounded (Hell). Who doesn't want to go to Disneyland? Yet another tool by which to control you. More strings to make you dance. If a Supreme Being exists and it created a flawed world so that you may expereince free-will then it must show more compassion than a Hell would imply he had. At least if it wants any kind of support/worship from me. Consider: Joe Schmoe is born into this world a drug addict thanks to his crackhead mom. She loses him because she is unfit. Joe is taken care of by his drunk uncle who has a nasty tendency to sexually abuse him. Joe is not a very intellectual person due to his being a crack baby. Said crack baby is taunted and occassionally beaten by his peers. Joe eventually tries crack. It is a euphoric feeling he cannot resist. Being the only somewhat sustainable and controllable joy he has expereinced so far he becomes obsessed with perpetuating it. During one of his frequent crime spree's (to obtain money for the one thing that brings him pleasure) he is shot and killed by police. Is Joe Evil? Does Joe diserve to go to a Hell? It would seem the cards are just stacked against some people from the get go. And this is the work of compasionate loving God? I either believe in some form of reincarnation, eternal peaceful nothingness, or something beyond my comprehension. Any hell that exists is self imposed. If not then I say fuck God and the horse he rode in on. I'd rather rule in hell than serve in heaven. __________________ "All serious conversations gravitate towards philosophy." -Ernest Dimnet

06-05-2003, 07:06 AM	#31 (permalink)
jyearwoo Upright	Just a couple of thoughts here. I can't believe in a hell as a place of physical torture. My logic here is simple. Your spirit, soul, etc. is what would pass to hell. The soul is metaphysical or exists in the land of no-thingness, which means it has no mass. Ok, if a soul has no physical mass, how can it be physically tortured? You could burn a soul all you want, and you aren't going to hurt it. I believe the idea of hell would be spiritual torture, and they described this torture with the most painful thing they could imagine at the time, Fire. I believe in reincarnation, cycles to reach enlightenment and finally union with God. Hence going to heaven. Hell, in my opinion, would be never reaching it. After reading tiberry's post (excuse me, I am going to try to think this out), the explanation of what the word hell really meant in alot of cases pit, grave, etc. makes sense to me. I have always thought that "ghost" are souls that after detaching from the body, for some reason, did not leave our world. Eastern philosohies teach Non-Attachment as a catalyst for achieving enlightenment. If something causes a spirit to "attach" to our realm and not move on, this could be spiritually tormenting, hence a hell. I believe, with reincarnation, you basically keep doing it until you learned what you needed to become one with God, so logically being "attached" and not moving on would be the opposite of Heaven, hence Hell. This is just my rant, and I will have to think about it further. But it does tend to make sense to me.

06-05-2003, 09:19 AM	#32 (permalink)
THE MAC GOD Insane Location: In front of my keyboard.	I think that hell is relative to the person... most Christians have the image of a lake of fire... while maybe true, I believe for Christians that HELL is the realization of separation from God... and that you will forever remain that way. __________________ Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

06-09-2003, 03:51 PM	#33 (permalink)
(vixen) Upright Location: neverneverland	i think hell is, your forced to relive your own mistakes, anything you feel guilty, ashamed or generally wouldnt do again. stuff like that time at primary school you made a girl cry. all the times as a teenager you told your mum you hated her. over and over, and you just have those feelings, nothing else, and you cant change what happens, your forced to watch the hurt youve caused from every angle, how every person hasbeen affected. just a never ending cycle of internal turmoil, made all the worse because its self inflicted. on and on, hating yourself forever. __________________ (vixen) always inside the triangle.

06-12-2003, 08:27 PM	#34 (permalink)
SuperMidget Banned Location: Farm country, South Dakota	As for wether or not hell exists, I have no meaningful insights, or anything that can compare to the quality of all the preceeding posts. However, I have one question. So far everyone is discussing hell in religious terms/intent. - Suppose hell has nothing to do with religion, or the way you lead your life, perhaps it is merely a matter of physics? Say you have two opposite types of energy, good and bad (however you wish to define it). And a soul (for lack of a better/more precise word) just goes to whichever energy pole has less energy/souls.

06-13-2003, 01:30 AM	#35 (permalink)
Tha Sewer Upright	how could anyone who truly believes in God believe in hell? Do you think God would really send people he created and loves into a place of eternal "hell-fire"...bullshit. hell, IMO, is a state we put ourselves into. if you dont believe in God and you continually do "ungodly" things then yeah...maybe you will be sent to hell but more of a personal hell on earth. i know that i've gone through what would be my hell several times. im not saying that if you dont believe in God then youre gonna have a shitty life and face "hell" for it. but im saying that if you do believe in God and you know youre not doing what you believe is right, then subconsciously, youre thinking "i might be goin to hell" which IMO will start a downward spiral in this life and eventually lead you to a hell on earth. and as for hell not being religious...i dont think there would even be a "hell" if religion hadnt brought it up in the first place. if there is a hell after death, then i'll be re-living 12 years of catholic school, going to church quite a bit and reading the bible an awful lot. now, wouldnt that be heaven for some people? i believe when you die you go where everybody else goes. the next life...not heaven, but the next life. a non-physical life. if you did bad shit in this life, then you pick up and start again in the next and try to catch up with everyone who didnt do all the "evil" stuff you did.

06-13-2003, 09:39 AM	#36 (permalink)
FallenAvatar Psycho	I quote David Draiman of Disturbed. "Hell doesn't exist, hell is a bed times story parents tell thier children to scare them to sleep." So it can't exist if you don't believe..

06-15-2003, 09:26 AM	#40 (permalink)
DMan49 Upright	This is a theory I've poured over with some of my friends - It is supposed to be based on some of the stories of revelations - however, we often confuse/misinterpret what is really being said. With that I say this is only a theory. Supposedly, in the not too distant future the entire world will unite under one world-wide government. This case is plausible considering the intense move to global economies and world-wide realtime communication. In the meantime, global warming (if you believe any of that) will continue to worsen as will the depletion of natural resources and water. At the time of the single world government, the people will be asked to take the sign of the new leader (could be tracking device, retina, etc.) to join the society. At this time, the people who brought us to this planet (i.e. religious figures, aliens, what have you) will return to earth ("descend from the heavens"). Those that have not taken the mark of the new society will be asked to leave with them on their ships/etc and 'save' them from the plight of earth. while those who have taken the mark will have to remain on the resource striken and much warmer planet. The heat and other natural disaster will form what we refer to as hell. So hell is really earth in the future when the temperature has risen and other problems plague the earth. Those who leave will join another society elsewhere in the universe while those who took the "sign of the devil" will have to live our their lives in hell. This is an interesting theory that answers several of mankind's most challenging questions. There is also some fact and real-life interpretations involved. Think about it for yourself - I am not religious at all, but I think the story of the bible has some merit although its meaning has become lost/misinterpreted. Let me know what you think.