tecoyah

Just Curious about the number of Members who have chosen this Path.
And if you would.....perhaps a little history as to the reasoning behind your choice.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Techno

*waves* shaman here.
As to why: the short, short answer: because I wanted a faith that empowered me and made sense to me.

The longer answer: I was raised an anglican, but it never resonated with me. Sure I could appreciate this whole jesus-died-for-you-malarky, but why should I care? What did this distant, judgemental authority figure offer me? Why did he need me? He didn't seem very deserving of my worship. Then I started reading up on the Norse mythologies and that resonated, I could respect and admire a guy who gave his eye up for forbidden knowledge. They made sense. About that time, my mother and stepfather joined the British Pagan Federation to meet up with other pagans, so I suddenly came into contact with a lot of new influences (I'd be about 15 at the time). It was clear that whilst not being exactly sure which of the presented pantheons were for me, paganism and the occult were definitely a part of me and my path. So I researched and adopted Wicca into my outlook, but I could never really dig the coven vibe. I was a solitary practitioner, and began looking at loner traditions, coming to shamanism. I've been lax over the past year or so, but a book* that recently came across my hands inspired me to get back to work.

What about you?


* Urban Magick by someone whos name escapes me... I'll get back to you on this.

__________________
"Don't take any guff from these swine"

la petite moi

I was Wiccan when I was younger. The reason being is because I couldn't believe the Christian hypocrisy; whereas, Wicca was about tolerance, understanding, and respect.

However, after a few years, I've realised that even Wicca is not for me because I can not really believe in such higher powers that just created us in a blink.

Zephyr66

I am not much of a pagan, but I have been looking into Ásatrú and it seems to make a lot of sense to me and I find ancient Germanic/Norse culture very interesting. However, I could never believe that the Norse gods really exist, which means i can never really follow Ásatrú.

tecoyah

Actually....yes you can. Following a Path, and Falling for a path are two different things.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Techno

I'm starting to think that the point of religion isn't to provide answers, it's to give you something to aim at. It's there to give you stories to live by, gods to admire and give you a sense of empowerment. And the best bit, as you're pagan, is you get to make your own stories. Can I ask what you find difficult to believe about the Asatru pantheon? I can understand the notion of occasionally psychotic, giant killing alchoholics in charge of the universe can be a little hard to swallow, but who said religion had to make sense?

Personally, I only follow a select few gods from different pantheons, and the odd one or two godforms I invented. If the notion of a blind moon god makes sense to you, but the thunder god doesn't appeal, as with many things, go with what feels right.

Sorry but AFAIK, there is no canon Wiccan creation myth. You believe what you want. So I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. I've never met a Wiccan who was anti-evolution. IMO, Wicca is more of a magical* tradition than a complete religion. Much of my experiences dealt with the application of rituals opposed to becoming closer to my gods or my ideals. The point I was obliquely trying to make is that Wicca is mainly a tool for doing magic as opposed to a long doctrine of belief**.


* can we all avoid the twattish additional k's? Pleeeease.
** As said above, I've never been in a coven. It's all a little cultish for me. So if this Wiccan creationism came from in one, I stand corrected.

__________________
"Don't take any guff from these swine"

tecoyah

There is indeed no creationist basis in the Wiccan faith...........unless you want there to be one. The true beauty of Pagan faiths is the general understanding that all faiths are correct, and everyone has a path to follow. This allows us all to be accepting of each other and still maintain our own understanding of sprituality.
I was born and raised Catholic until I found a series of what I saw as falsehoods in the Bible I was told was Gods word. When I attempted to discuss these issues I was ....shall we say......"guided" back towards the flock. I have read up on Eastern philosophy, Physics,four versions of the Bible, A couple Cults, and several others. I decided to incorporate what I percieved as the best of each into my own faith. Wicca was close, but not quite there (this was more than a decade ago) and was becoming a "Teen Witch" religious escape. I found much of the Druid teachings also quite appealing, and incorporated quite a bit of this into my own beliefs.

Thus I have become..........An Eclectic Pagan Solitary.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

killeena

I practiced Wicca for a little while, but it ended up not doing much for me. I have ended up kinda forming my own views on "Life, the Universe, and Everything." However, I can really appreciate the openness of Pagan religions, and their many paths. I can also appreciate the stories and traditions, and the lessons they teach. They seem logical, and are much easier to swallow than "Do this or else you will be punished" (although I am sure that some of those messages have been twisted throughout time).

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Freedom would be not to choose between black and white but to abjure such prescribed choices. - Theodor Adorno

roachboy

i am interested in the various worldviews that get lumped under this category, but do not myself practice--mostly because i am not in the same place aesthetically as most of my comrades--by which i mean that while i might do practices in some contexts, i do not see things in the same way and see no real reason to change that. that and i dont do oaths. most of the ritual practices i know involve oaths, at one level of another.

mostly i understand this space as being about focus--of mind, of body, of energy (or whatever you call it)

it is interesting space--i kinda like how the signifiers particular to various religious traditions are seen in this space as signifiers--the question of belief becomes quite complex, given this point of departure.

i am quite interested in ritual space-sometimes when i am doing music, i'll intertwine it with ritual (as performance once in a while, as something less public more often--if you do performances in this way too often, it becomes a gimmick so far as the audience is concerned)--but i'll surf the ritual in my way rather than actually say the formulae. which requires that you launch with people whom you trust. and having such people around is indeed a luxury.

so sympathetic and working parallel areas.
but i do not myself identify as such.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Zephyr66

I guess you're right, while I was reading up on Ásatrú i read that it consists of the belief in Norse dieties. but I guess that would mostly be the extremists. I guess, Essentially I am an Ásatrúar.

Strange Famous

I dont know that anyone's religion is exactly a choice. I think you have to believe in what makes sense and is logical to you, while taking into account social and cultural pressures exerted by organised religions and cults of belief.

For me, I dont have a strong understanding of paganism, but I have always understood it to be a religion that values nature and imbues plantlife and the earth itself with great value and sentience. For myself, I view "nature" as frightening, alien, barren and in term of higher meaning, meaningless. Wide open spaces make me feel vulnerable, the sea strikes me as violent and ugly, the stars often make me feel empty due to their frightening smallness and short lifespan. All wild animals and domestic animals make me nervous, I dislike tree's, fields, woods, heathland, and so on. I like cities, concrete on every side of you hemming you in making you safe and protected.

Which while this is, I am aware, strange to most people, obviously makes me disinclined to follow a religion which I see as giving undue value to nature - which I think it does not have. Whether my feelings come from an untrue understanding of Pagan religions (and I also though that Pagan was a word used to describe almost all non-Christian religions by the early church - so technically believe in the Ancient Roman Gods, Egyptian Gods, Wicca, Norse mythology, or anything else could be described as paganism, but I took my understanding from what I know of British paganism) or from an unnatural and unhealthy dislike of the non-human world, I cant say. But that is why I am not a pagan, which isnt the same question, I know.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

tecoyah

Wow.........um.....OK.

Regardless of the......implications of your Phobias. Not meant as an insult.
You are correct, the term "Pagan" can be used as a generic label for a Non-Christian.
Many of the paths under this label do indeed focus on the Earth and Nature, as that is where we live, and when the basis for much of the paths direction was created, there were no cities. Many of the Pagan beliefs are extremely old, and predate civilization as we know it today, thus the focus on Nature, and the wilds that were the world when these ideas were created.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Amnesia620

Second generation Wiccan, blessed by a male and female Wiccan priest at birth; raised Christian to help me "broaden and promote my interest in any and all religions". When I was twelve, I inquired more about my blessing at birth and found that I was noticing many hypocritical and pretentious instances within the churches walls. I decided to self-educate on Wicca while attending Catholic mass, Lutheran services and Christian services. I found that reason forced me to dissect and disprove many things I had read in the Bible (I've read it cover to cover 2 times; My dad has read it nine times cover to cover.)

I didn't like the way people acted, the half-truths that I was picking out of the Bible...telling me that the Bible is an OK History book - but it is not a Gospel. Christians around me, at this time, were trying to persuade me into "relying on faith to fill in the gaps" but it was already too late. I had my doubts in a lot of areas and decided that I wanted to follow what I believe to be my true calling - Wicca.

Blessed Be.

__________________
For example, I find that a lot of college girls are barbie doll carbon copies with few differences...Sadly, they're dumb, ditzy, immature, snotty, fake, or they are the gravitational center to orbiting drama. - Amnesia620

irateplatypus

a question for you pagans that follows the line of this thread:

what are some essential characteristics of a pagan? if someone were not a christian (or a monotheist at all), and not an atheist... what would separate that remaining block of people into pagans and non-pagans? of course, i mean the word "pagan" to imply a religious/spiritual approach to life... not in the meaning that it encompasses all non-christian peoples.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

bad jane

well, here's the answer as i understand it (through instruction and my own interpretation). if you say you are, you are.

much like christianity has denominations, pagans can be divided into various groups as well. for example, wiccans are pagans but not all pagans are wiccan. some people find a path and identify themselves with it (wiccan, druid, whatever). other people create their own and rather than identify with a group, they simply consider themselves to be pagan. a lot of these people may tell you that they consider themselves spiritual rather than religious. they have beliefs, they just don't stem from any one particular set of teachings.

typically, pagans are very accepting of other beliefs. i compare it to light shining through a prism. if the truth is the light source, then various religious and spiritual paths are the colors you see when the light is shined through the prism. each represents a part of the truth, so none of them are wrong, but since they are only part of the truth, they aren't quite right either. i strive to connect with the source, rather than the fragments of light i've found in organized religions.

hopefully that made some sense, i'm not feeling particularly articulate just now

Bryndian_Dhai

First, I want to say that my own personal beliefs are non-christian.... I suppose this makes me a pagan, by the general definition. The philosophy I follow is very similar to ancient mother Earth practices and Native North American practices. I do not worship or follow or honor any deities, though I do not consider myself atheist. While I know that mother Earth philosophy, and most Native philosophies are nature-based, my beliefs are reflective of the fact that I live in an urban surrounding. In a nutshell, I remember to be thankful and grateful for the things in my life that are good, and I attempt to rectify the things in my life that are not. I believe that what goes around comes around, and try to make sure my actions reflect that.


I have pagan friends who consider themselves to be Wiccan who have had a similar problem with it that you do. They have formed their own coven and started their own tradition that celebrates the modern life they lead, that moves away from the nature based worship and focuses instead on the individual and the path she takes in her life. It seems fascinating, though I'm still not interested in a tradition that follows deities.

Ultimately, its about what feels right for you, what makes you feel in touch with the world around you, whatever that world looks like.

__________________
“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
~Sinclair Lewis

irateplatypus

no, i understood you just fine. thanks for the time you put into answering my question.

how would one person begin to believe that he/she were directing themselves towards the source of truth and not another ray from the same prism? if we grant that some people are wiser than others and we recognize that such wisdom can be applied to (or is in fact) the pursuit of truth... then what rationale does the pagan use when finding his own way (or in deeming that all ways are equal)? it seems that by finding their own way or not discriminating between ways that they are either...

1) implying that all people are similarly equipped to find truth.
2) asserting that their own pursuit of truth is better than all others.

i would find it remarkable to see someone seriously defend either position.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

Bryndian_Dhai

I believe that most pagans (or anyone seriously seeking truth and enlightenment on their own after discarding the precepts of organized religion) believe that all people are similarly equipped to find truth.

The easiest way to defend this is to point out that most of the pagans I know are the most open to someone else's differing way. I know that I myself, as well as most of my friends, understand that there are as many different paths to truth as there are people to follow them. Faith and religion are not one-size-fits-all endeavor, otherwise there wouldn't be so many different interpretations of the same scripture and dogma.

I assert that my own pursuit of truth is better than all others
for me. I think that most pagans will agree that the reason they set out to find truth their own way is because no one else's way fit them in a way that felt right. Ultimately, the search for truth is a highly individual journey, and the way to find it is specific to each person who searches.

__________________
“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
~Sinclair Lewis

bad jane

bryndian_dhai put it very well. it's all about what rings true to the individual.

tack on "for them" at the end of statement two and those statements go together beautifully imo.

i'm not christian but i certainly don't believe christians are wrong. but it isn't right for me. i feel the same way about every religion i've ever seen. it doesn't feel 100% right to me and for me, that means i can't be a part of it. i won't belong to a religion i don't believe in 100%. it feels like i'm lying to myself, to others and to whatever name you choose to give the highest power. but just because that religion doesn't work for me, doesn't mean it doesn't work for others.

Fohur2

I recently (6monthsish) started reading abit about Paganism.During Christmas as a half joke,I kept wishing people Merry Yule,to get the reaction out of them,when I explained Christmas origins.I guess I loosely follow paganism..just enough to know the mythology etc.

tecoyah

We all follow the Pagan Path loosely.........as I don't think there is a tight Pagan Path.
Therein lies the true beauty.........you really cant get it wrong, because it is you.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

irateplatypus

it's funny that you say this... because the main reason why i am not a pagan seems to be the reason you are.

from what i'm hearing from pagans on TFP and my conversations elsewhere, it seems that paganism is very prevalent. if not in the mystical sense, at least i've met many people who share a similar worldview who had not stopped to consider whether they were pagan or not.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

tecoyah

You are likely correct......the term Pagan has historically held negative baggage and has been avoided for quite some time. The label is becoming more accepted as of late, and more are using it as a definition of spiritual understanding, rather than ritual practice.
Honestly, most who follow this path don't care who calls themselves Pagan, as the term is not relevant to the experience. It would seem the use of this title is mostly a means to differentiate ones self from a Christian/Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist/Jewish Label.......and define a sixth alternative to the big five.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Strange Famous

Do any genuine Druid writings actually survive? My understanding is that no one really knows anything about the Druid's other than that they existed.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

tecoyah

There is an oral history, and limited mention in roman and greek histories..........this might help:



"Druidry is not a religion. It's a philosophy and you can worship a God or a Goddess, it's up to you. You can be a Christian or a Moslem or anything else and still be a Druid. "But while a Christian will say God made that tree, a Druid will say the energy of a creative force is in that tree."


History:

Modern Druidism is one of the Neopagan family of religions, which includes Wicca and recreations of Egyptian, Greek, Norse, Roman and other ancient Pagan religions. Some present-day Druids attempt to reconstruct of the beliefs and practices of ancient Druidism. Others modern-day followers of Druidism work directly with the spirits of place, of the gods and of their ancestors to create a new Druidism.

Within ancient Druidism, there were three specialties. "A general categorisation of the three different grades accords the arts to the bards, the skills of prophecy and divination to the Ovates and philosophical, teaching, counselling and judicial tasks to the Druid." 1
The Bards were "the keepers of tradition, of the memory of the tribe - they were the custodians of the sacredness of the Word." In Ireland, they trained for 12 years learning grammar, hundreds of stories, poems, philosophy, the Ogham tree-alphabet.
The Ovates worked with the processes of death and regeneration. They were the native healers of the Celts. They specialized in divination, conversing with the ancestors, and prophesizing the future.
The Druids and Druidesses formed the professional class in Celtic society. They performed the functions of modern day priests, teachers, ambassadors, astronomers, genealogists, philosophers, musicians, theologians, scientists, poets and judges. They underwent lengthy training: some sources say 20 years. Druids led all public rituals, which were normally held within fenced groves of sacred trees. In their role as priests, "they acted not as mediators between God and man, but as directors of ritual, as shamans guiding and containing the rites." Most leaders mentioned in the surviving records were male. It is not known whether female Druids were considered equal to their male counterparts, or whether they were restricted to special responsibilities. References to women exercising religious power might have been deleted from the record by Christian monks during the Celtic Christian era.

Since ancient Druidism was an oral tradition, they did not have a set of scriptures as do Christianity and other "religions of the book. 2 "Some Druidic "teachings survived in the Bardic colleges in Wales, Ireland and Scotland which remained active until the 17th century, in medieval manuscripts, and in oral tradition, folk lore and ritual." 3

Druidism and other Neopagan religions are currently experiencing a rapid growth. Many people are attempting to rediscover their roots, their ancestral heritage. For many people in North America, their ancestors can be traced back to Celtic/Druidic countries.

Most modern Druids connect the origin of their religion to the ancient Celtic people. However, historical data is scarce. The Druids may well have been active in Britain and perhaps in northern Europe before the advent of the Celts.

Many academics believe that the ancestors of the Celts were the Proto-Indo European culture who lived near the Black Sea circa 4000 BCE. Some migrated in a South-Westerly direction to create the cultures of Thrace and Greece; others moved North-West to form the Baltic, Celtic, Germanic and Slavic cultures. Evidence of a Proto-Celtic Unetice or Urnfield culture has been found in what is now Slovakia circa 1000 BCE. This evolved into a group of loosely linked tribes which formed the Celtic culture circa 800 BCE. By 450 BCE they had expanded into Spain; by 400 BCE they were in Northern Italy, and by 270 BCE, they had migrated into Galatia (central Turkey). By 200 BCE, they had occupied the British Isles, Brittany, much of modern France, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and Switzerland, North West Spain, and their isolated Galatia settlement in Turkey.

Although the Celts had a written language, it was rarely used. Their religious and philosophical beliefs were preserved in an oral tradition. Little of their early history remains. Most of our information comes from Greek and Roman writers, who may well have been heavily biased (the Celts invaded Rome in 390 BCE and Greece in 279 BCE). Other data comes from the codification (and modification) of Celtic myth cycles by Christian monks. The latter included the Ulster Cycle, the Fenian Cycle, the Cycle of Kings, the Invasion Races Cycle from Ireland, and The Mabinogion from Wales. Unfortunately, much Celtic history and religion has been lost or distorted by an overlay of Christianity.

The Christian Church adsorbed much of Celtic religion: many Pagan Gods and Goddesses became Christian saints; sacred springs and wells were preserved and associated with saints; many Pagan temple sites became the location of cathedrals. By the 7th Century CE, Druidism itself was destroyed or continued deeply underground throughout most of the formerly Celtic lands. There is some evidence that Pagan religions did survive in isolated areas of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania into the 20th Century.


Myths about Druids
Ritual Killing: Many historians believed that the ancient Druids performed human sacrifices. All of these references can be traced back to the writings of one individual, Julius Caesar. He may well have been prejudiced against the Celts because of their continual warfare with the Romans. In war, the enemy is routinely demonized. Some remains of executions have been found in the archeological record, but it is not obvious whether the victims were killed during religious rituals or to carry out the sentence of a court. There is one reference to human sacrifice in Celtic literature, but it appears to be a Christian forgery. The ancient Celts might have engaged in ritual killing; certainly other contemporary societies did. Modern Druids, of course, do not.
Stonehenge, Avebury, etc.: Many people believe that the Druids constructed Stonehenge, the complex of standing stones in South Central England. Stonehenge I ("Old Stonehenge"), which was composed of the 56 "Aubrey" holes, was constructed circa 3500 BCE. The current formation was completed circa 1500 BCE. This was almost a millennium before the start of Celtic civilization. The Druids may have preceded the Celts in England. Thus, either the Druids or their fore-runners might have been responsible for the finishing of Stonehenge and other monuments. There is no historical proof that they were or were not involved. Even if they did not actually construct these monuments, they may well have performed rituals there, and understood its astronomical meanings and uses.

In Ireland and Great Britain, there are many ancient "Druid" altars, beds, rings, stones, stone circles and temples. However, radio-carbon analyses assign dates such as 1380 BCE (Wilsford Shaft) to 3330 BCE (Hembury). Again, ancient Druids may have used these megalithic monuments, but did not necessarily build them

Ireland now has countless wells and springs dedicated to the Christian Saint Bridget. She was obviously descended from the Celtic Goddess Brigid/Brigit. "Finding the cult of Brigit impossible to eradicate, the Catholic church rather unwisely canonized her as a saint, calling her Bridget or Bride." 4 The sacred ownership of the various Pagan holy sites were simply translated from Goddess Brigid to St. Bridget after the area was Christianized.
Celtic God Samhain: This non-existent God is often mentioned at Halloween time. He is supposed to be the Celtic God of the Dead. No such God existed. Samhain is, in reality, the name of a Druidic fire festival. It can be loosely translated as "end of the warm season".
Monotheistic Druids: Some writers have promoted the concept that Druids were basically monotheistic, following a sort of pre-Christian belief system. There is essentially no evidence of this. Druids worshipped a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Zephyr66

Thanks for the info Tecoyah, I can see you're very enlightened on this subject.

kurtisj

i am pagan for the most part, i became this because i thought the idea of heaven, is just a fairy tale used to try and keep these people in line, everybody wants something to look forward too. Hell was made to make people think twice before they do something because nobody wants to die and suffer forever in hell. Christianity along with every other religion was made to try to keep everybody in line is what i think

__________________
Marvin the Mountie Always Gets His Kurtisj.

nohitters

I'm a christian but gradually leading into a pagan lifestyle. I have just seen so much evidence that doesn't support the bibles information and I just don't know what to believe any more

__________________
For Sale.

Jesus Pimp

I was into wicca senior year of high school till sophomore year of college. It opened up my mind to a lot of things and got me through some tough times, but I grew out of it when I realized it's just another artificial belief system created by man to try to explain the world. I became aganostic. However I do apply some of the philosophies from wicca and other religions I've studied to my life, but don't worship any god(s) or goddess(es) anymore.

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

Seeker

Hmmm, I've never really thought of classifying myself in a 'spiritual sense'. I know I think of things such as the energies that underlie our actions and thoughts. I have spent many years studying different religions and teachings. It is something that I have always been attracted to, I incorporate and utilise much of what I've learnt and sometimes this can be difficult in a society that seems to ignore this subtle side of our existance. And then how do I explain myself and my actions to those that do not see things in this perspective...

For me, definately food for thought!
Sorry for the bump, but it's a great topic.

__________________
To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

tecoyah

Actually seeker....from what I have seen of you....I would expect your path to lead towards this eventually. If indeed....it is not already there

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Seeker

Ok, so I might be a little confused, but from what I'm reading you don't necissarily need to 'worship' to gods or goddesses. Would I be right here?

A belief in an 'underlying' energy/source/essence would be grounds enough on it's own to call oneself pagan? (sort of like the Nature - Veneration aspect)

That being said, are there many modern pagans that practice things like wicca and rituals? And what of the 'evil' in the world? What is the perception on that?

__________________
To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

tecoyah

You would be correct in the lack of deity worship , as far as Pagan belief is concerned.
And the understanding/belief in natures energies, is also a part of it.

As for the "Evil" in this world.....the understanding will Vary with belief. As an example, I do not accept the power of evil....I take negative and positive as parts of the whole. From the negative we create a positive within ourselves....if we decide to do so.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

lindseylatch

I definitely shy away from the Big Three: Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. And I feel a definite resonance with more...hmmm...pagan, I guess would be the word, religions. In that, I'm including Buddhism. I was taught in a religion class that paganism was merely not one of the Judeo-Christian religions (which Islam counts as, I believe?). I think one of the reasons I shy away from the Big Three is that they've become so organized. It's more about the specific beliefs of each group, and not the general idea behind them. They don't care anymore that someone sacrificed themselves for our sins, but are more concerned with whether gay people might get married and have families. It's more about the pope and the bishops than about God. pagan religions, as mentioned before, are much more open to an individual's beliefs and ideas about the truth of the universe. They're less concerned that everyone believe the same thing that they do.

The pagan religion that most sparked my interest was Gaianism, although I haven't been looking around for quite some time. After the Final Fantasy movie came out, I really liked that idea of a "soul" in the world, which we all return to and mesh with when we die. Then, a little bit of "us" is in everything that is born. Also, the idea of a "soul" for each world, and that each creature must be returned to it's own Mother Earth.

I believe in evolution, but I'm astounded by the astronomical probability against a certain creature (such as a human) actually evolving. So, I like to believe that this "soul" of Earth is somehow "guiding" the process of evolution, allowing helpful mutations to appear faster. Yet, I don't believe Nature is a self-aware creature, more like a sleeping giant. And if we damage her too much, she will bring great fury upon us. (To (mis?)quote Sam Jackson in Pulp Fiction) I think diseases and parasites are one way Nature helps to regulate herself, and not allow one organism to gain too much of a stronghold. Unfortunately, we've sort of gotten out of control. And something will come along to fix that...

Just a side question/comment about Druidism:
I was under the belief that each tribe had a specific God/Goddess that they worship above all others, but they did believe in all of them. And that's how you get such a huge pantheon, since there were tons of tribes. But that probably came off a crappy website, or one of those books that came out at the height of the pagan trend a few years ago, so it may be suspect.

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."
-Voltaire

Techno

Say that to a Muslim, see what they say. I disagree with the definition provided. I'd argue that a pagan was anyone whose religion accepted the existence of other gods; you don't neccessarily have to respect them or worship others gods, but recognising you've not got a monopoly on religious truth is what makes you pagan. So, no I wouldn't say a Muslim was a pagan.

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"Don't take any guff from these swine"

irateplatypus

why not just look it up yourself?

it appears the word can encompass all the definitions suggested so far.

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If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

powerclown

I'm not a Pagan myself, but I met a self-avowed Pagan ("Conan") at a greasy spoon Hamburger joint about 2 years ago. He had just got out of the Jackson State bullpen, having done 9 years, on multiple Counts assault and battery with intent to do serious bodily Harm ("Protecting a fellow pagan brother"), as well as trafficking over 50 grams of crystal meth and heroin ("No comment"). He said he was Sworn into Pagans M.C. (motorcyle club) when he was 20 (he looked to be about 40), the method being having 5 guys beat him almost to death. He was a fascinating guy, if somewhat Intimidating.

To this day, I Regret not bringing up the topic of Paganism in our conversation.

Seeker

I like the way Pagan works for many, but isn't it funny how we are so used to 'classifications' or 'labels'. If you tell someone you are Christian, or Muslim, then you get an idea of where they are coming from and what they are about. Where if you state you are Pagan, that can pretty much mean anything. It doesn't actually describe your particular ideas.

If I were to say I have no religion, then some people would accept that as understandable. If I were to say I was Pagan, that would not tell them anymore than the first statement, however I'm sure some people would make assumptions as to what Pagan means.

That is both conflicting and interesting.

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To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

tecoyah

I believe that is the point of using the term. You will seldom see (if ever) a Wicca/Druid/Gaia follower attempt to convert someone to the path. You are unlikely to have someone of Nature worship....come right out and tell you they bow down before trees. By having such an undefined label for us all....we create an opening for conversation that someone can use to explore these directions for a path, but they need to be truly interested to decide to use this opening.
I myself have allowed this four times in my life....and three of those left the fold of a church to seek something else. One is torn when that happens....conversion bieng one of those things that really turns me off from most religious people. Paganism is not a religion, but a spiritual walk away from dogma. It is not for most people, and cares not how many are "Saved".

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Techno

Yeah, but Muslims wouldn't call themselves pagan. Some would be quite offended that you suggested it. To me, that particular usage feels like a vestigial trace of Christianity's dismissal of any faith other than their own ("Let's go out and convert the godless pagans").

It's less interesting than you'd think. The misunderstandings can be quite tiresome in fact. As an example, I recently applied for a job, and on the form filled out the religion box with: "Pagan - shamanistic tradition". Next time I'm down in the office, everyone's acting a little odd so I interrogate a random employee and get "Oh it's because you're a warlock". Needless to say, I'm not working there.

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"Don't take any guff from these swine"