Why are you Pagan? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Seeker · 05-11-2005, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techno

It's less interesting than you'd think. The misunderstandings can be quite tiresome in fact. As an example, I recently applied for a job, and on the form filled out the religion box with: "Pagan - shamanistic tradition". Next time I'm down in the office, everyone's acting a little odd so I interrogate a random employee and get "Oh it's because you're a warlock". Needless to say, I'm not working there.

Ah, but Techno, this is exactly why I find it 'conflicting and interesting'. This is what I meant about people making assumptions based on a label, when in fact you cannot make a particular judgement about this 'label'.

Unfortunate in your stated case above, but see how quick people are to judge a label. Is that not conflicting and interesting?

Perhaps you should have just written Pagan? I'm not sure if that would be 'shortchanging' your perspective on your path, but perhaps the extention of 'shamanistic tradition' was just a little too much information for those who have no understanding.

*Note: This would be an assumption given that I'm just trying to work this all out - no harm meant, OK?

tecoyah · 05-11-2005, 05:56 AM

Personally...I would have simply left it blank. The quest for spirituality is a very personal thing. I didnt mention my Pagan nature here until I was asked long ago in a thread I cannot even remember. I do remember hesitating before replying though, primarily because I really didnt care to explain what it means to someone who was not likely to be interested in what really goes into it.
There seems to be a great many people here on this forum who are a bit more "Open" to alternatives to the big three, and that lightens my soul.

lindseylatch · 05-11-2005, 06:57 AM

*sigh* I meant Islam counts as NOT pagan. My definition was not clear, and I realized that last night. Basically, I believe Paganism to be someone who is not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. Or athiest, I guess, since they believe in nothing.

I would NEVER put Pagan on a application, or any religious affiliation. Maybe agnostic. But it's really none of my employers bussiness what God or gods I choose to believe in/worship. I don't really tell anyone what my beliefs are, unless they specifically ask, and then I might kind of skim over it. Religion is a touchy subject in my life, and with a lot of other people. They can get mighty aggressive if you say the wrong thing...

Although I can't really call it a belief...more like an idea (In the movie "Dogma" sense of the word). Cause ideas can change.

ngdawg · 05-11-2005, 09:31 AM

I am reading through this thread for the first time and the labels of who everyone was or is seem to stick out boldly.
Those that know me know I am no fan of religion at all. I am not ignorant of them, having been to Lutheran, Catholic, Methodist and Episcopalian institutions numerous times in my youth, married into a Protestant family and being the child of a Jewish mother and Catholic father.
I might very well be Pagan. I am deeply spiritual in the emotional sense-meaning I have the utmost respect for life, see the good in all and strive for the understanding of everything around me. I believe we have powers and connections to our natural world and other people that too many of us stifle instead learn from. I believe that the universe is too vast to compehend, but our connection to it in terms of our life cycles and paths is real and purposeful.
Giving that, I also believe that we, humans and all nature, are flukes of nature. A meeting of chemistry and evolution, if you will, that culminated in what we now are.
Religions tell us that if we are good, we will go to heaven or paradise and if we are bad, we go to hell. I believe that every day, we are faced with the choice of good or bad, and we make our own heaven and hell as we live. After life is over, we go the way of a flower or roadkill. I hope I can be the flower....

lindseylatch · 05-11-2005, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

I am reading through this thread for the first time and the labels of who everyone was or is seem to stick out boldly.

I'm not nearly so sure of my beliefs as my post made it sound, but then I think I'm one of the younger people who posted in this thread. I hope that as we get older we start to solidify our ideas, to make them more than just "until something better comes along," which is how I sometimes feel.

Of course, active thinking/searching is a part of that, and with graduation looming, I think it will be a couple of years before I have the time and energy to devote to something as "frivilous" as my beliefs about the universe.

One thing that I truly hope for with all my heart is that the truth will be revealed when I die. I want to KNOW, and I know that isn't possible in my current form/incarnation. But I need to believe that all my postulations and theories aren't for nothing, and that they will eventually be proven or disproven (guess that's the scientist in me

). Even if that knowledge is only fleeting, or even if I only know that I once knew the Truth. That would be enough.

tecoyah · 05-11-2005, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

.
I might very well be Pagan. I am deeply spiritual in the emotional sense-meaning I have the utmost respect for life, see the good in all and strive for the understanding of everything around me. I believe we have powers and connections to our natural world and other people that too many of us stifle instead learn from. I believe that the universe is too vast to compehend, but our connection to it in terms of our life cycles and paths is real and purposeful.

Yup Dawg...You Be Pagan

ngdawg · 05-12-2005, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah

Yup Dawg...You Be Pagan

THAT...would so blow my mother-in-law's mind as to render her speechless...
can't wait to tell her!

loganmule · 05-12-2005, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah

The true beauty of Pagan faiths is the general understanding that all faiths are correct, and everyone has a path to follow. This allows us all to be accepting of each other and still maintain our own understanding of sprituality.

O.K., I admit that I'm confused. As Irateplatypus points out, there are a number of possible definitions for pagan. Hinduism is polytheistic and therefore pagan by one definition, but I've known a practising Hindu and she believed the literal truth of her faith, and absolutely did not accept that "other" pagan faiths were correct (she would be offended to have her faith characterized as pagan).

If all pagans really were accepting of each other, they necessarily must accept that for whatever reason (upbringing, genetics, environmental experience interacting?), they are choosing to accept a belief system wholly on the basis of subjective feeling, and granting it to be true that since there is absolutely no objective basis for the selected belief system, it can have no true validity to make it superior or preferable to any others. This is only an observation, and not a criticism, as whatever comprises objective reality may only be experienced subjectively by us. Fundamentalists of nonpagan faiths would obviously take issue with this, and perhaps that's the true difference between pagans and nonpagans.

My only criticism of pagans applies to nonpagans as well...one's faith or belief system should not infringe upon the health and safety of others, or upon the right for others to follow whatever benign spiritual path is felt to be right.

tecoyah · 05-13-2005, 03:27 AM

The issue here is in the definition....not the belief. Placing the Eastern religions into a Pagan bracket, simply because they are not accepted as christian creates the confusion.
These are named religions, with a rich history of thier own, and quite simply do not belong in the realm of paganism.The christian understanding of "Pagan" is anyone who is not Christian, this is far to encompassing to be accurate. I have found that by placing the Earth/Nature based faiths in the Pagan label....and a few others, much of the confusion is removed. I also tend to remove any religion that claims is knows who God is.
Truthfully....these are simply words to define a personal understanding of our place in this world anyway.....and I wish they could be forgotten, unfortunately that is not in the Tarot Cards.

This may help understand the vague nature of Paganism, below is the wiccan Rede....pretty much the only universally areed upon statement in the entire faith:

Bide the Wiccan Law ye must,
In Perfect Love, in Perfect Trust
Eight Words the Wiccan Rede Fulfill:
And Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will
And Ever Mind the Rule of Three
What Ye Send Out , Comes Back to Thee
Follow This with Mind an Heart
And Merry Ye Meet, And Merry Ye Part

There is no Pagan bible.....and there is no need for one

loganmule · 05-14-2005, 01:52 PM

tecoyah, I think you've hit the nail on the head. As I went through the posts on this thread, my impression was that people were talking about disparate things in one sense, but the same thing viewed in a different way.

I believe that all religious and spiritual traditions are true in the sense that they are metaphorical of human experience vis-a-vis universal reality, which to me anyway, is truly beyond our knowledge and comprehension. Those posting on this thread as pagans appear to share that belief. I'll leave to you the task of enlightening me on whether this is a core belief of all pagans, or even an element of the definition of the term.

Jesus' reported actions (as opposed to what the scripture said he said) teach the importance of patience, humility, compassion, tolerance, acquiescence and sacrifice. As I see it, he achieved divinity by being the embodiment of those principles, and because this strikes a familiar chord with me, I am trying to follow that example in my own life. To me, this makes me a Christian, although admittedly other "Christians" would disagree. At the same time, I can accept that your path, and the paths of the others here, are equally valid.

Spirituality is like a suit. We each need to tailor it to fit us perfectly, using a path with heart (to borrow from Castenada) to do the tailoring.

nicanfhilidh · 05-17-2005, 11:57 AM

I am pagan ... an ADF druid, specifically. I am deeply involved, having founded a local grove. I came to paganism via a long, winding path that started with free-thinking parents, was fueled by psychedelics in college, and influenced by a brief flirtation with Buddhism. I first experimented with Wicca, but soon realized it wasn't for me before finding that there are other kinds of pagans. And since then I haven't looked back.

For me the defining moment was when I realized that I truly was an animist ... that I saw everything in the world as having its own spirit. From that it wasn't difficult for me to accept the notion of multiple gods. I haven't been happier since I came to terms with this. My then-boyfriend, who was bitterly in rebellion against Christianity, also found the path. We're now married and expecting our first child, who we will be raising in our path.

05-11-2005, 05:56 AM	#42 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Personally...I would have simply left it blank. The quest for spirituality is a very personal thing. I didnt mention my Pagan nature here until I was asked long ago in a thread I cannot even remember. I do remember hesitating before replying though, primarily because I really didnt care to explain what it means to someone who was not likely to be interested in what really goes into it. There seems to be a great many people here on this forum who are a bit more "Open" to alternatives to the big three, and that lightens my soul. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

05-11-2005, 06:57 AM	#43 (permalink)
lindseylatch Addict Location: Seattle, WA	sigh I meant Islam counts as NOT pagan. My definition was not clear, and I realized that last night. Basically, I believe Paganism to be someone who is not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. Or athiest, I guess, since they believe in nothing. I would NEVER put Pagan on a application, or any religious affiliation. Maybe agnostic. But it's really none of my employers bussiness what God or gods I choose to believe in/worship. I don't really tell anyone what my beliefs are, unless they specifically ask, and then I might kind of skim over it. Religion is a touchy subject in my life, and with a lot of other people. They can get mighty aggressive if you say the wrong thing... Although I can't really call it a belief...more like an idea (In the movie "Dogma" sense of the word). Cause ideas can change. __________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." -Voltaire

05-11-2005, 09:31 AM	#44 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	Labels are bothersome and limiting I am reading through this thread for the first time and the labels of who everyone was or is seem to stick out boldly. Those that know me know I am no fan of religion at all. I am not ignorant of them, having been to Lutheran, Catholic, Methodist and Episcopalian institutions numerous times in my youth, married into a Protestant family and being the child of a Jewish mother and Catholic father. I might very well be Pagan. I am deeply spiritual in the emotional sense-meaning I have the utmost respect for life, see the good in all and strive for the understanding of everything around me. I believe we have powers and connections to our natural world and other people that too many of us stifle instead learn from. I believe that the universe is too vast to compehend, but our connection to it in terms of our life cycles and paths is real and purposeful. Giving that, I also believe that we, humans and all nature, are flukes of nature. A meeting of chemistry and evolution, if you will, that culminated in what we now are. Religions tell us that if we are good, we will go to heaven or paradise and if we are bad, we go to hell. I believe that every day, we are faced with the choice of good or bad, and we make our own heaven and hell as we live. After life is over, we go the way of a flower or roadkill. I hope I can be the flower.... __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

05-13-2005, 03:27 AM	#49 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	The issue here is in the definition....not the belief. Placing the Eastern religions into a Pagan bracket, simply because they are not accepted as christian creates the confusion. These are named religions, with a rich history of thier own, and quite simply do not belong in the realm of paganism.The christian understanding of "Pagan" is anyone who is not Christian, this is far to encompassing to be accurate. I have found that by placing the Earth/Nature based faiths in the Pagan label....and a few others, much of the confusion is removed. I also tend to remove any religion that claims is knows who God is. Truthfully....these are simply words to define a personal understanding of our place in this world anyway.....and I wish they could be forgotten, unfortunately that is not in the Tarot Cards. This may help understand the vague nature of Paganism, below is the wiccan Rede....pretty much the only universally areed upon statement in the entire faith: Bide the Wiccan Law ye must, In Perfect Love, in Perfect Trust Eight Words the Wiccan Rede Fulfill: And Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will And Ever Mind the Rule of Three What Ye Send Out , Comes Back to Thee Follow This with Mind an Heart And Merry Ye Meet, And Merry Ye Part There is no Pagan bible.....and there is no need for one __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

05-14-2005, 01:52 PM	#50 (permalink)
loganmule Junkie Location: midwest	tecoyah, I think you've hit the nail on the head. As I went through the posts on this thread, my impression was that people were talking about disparate things in one sense, but the same thing viewed in a different way. I believe that all religious and spiritual traditions are true in the sense that they are metaphorical of human experience vis-a-vis universal reality, which to me anyway, is truly beyond our knowledge and comprehension. Those posting on this thread as pagans appear to share that belief. I'll leave to you the task of enlightening me on whether this is a core belief of all pagans, or even an element of the definition of the term. Jesus' reported actions (as opposed to what the scripture said he said) teach the importance of patience, humility, compassion, tolerance, acquiescence and sacrifice. As I see it, he achieved divinity by being the embodiment of those principles, and because this strikes a familiar chord with me, I am trying to follow that example in my own life. To me, this makes me a Christian, although admittedly other "Christians" would disagree. At the same time, I can accept that your path, and the paths of the others here, are equally valid. Spirituality is like a suit. We each need to tailor it to fit us perfectly, using a path with heart (to borrow from Castenada) to do the tailoring.

05-17-2005, 11:57 AM	#51 (permalink)
nicanfhilidh Upright Location: Atlanta, GA USA	I am pagan ... an ADF druid, specifically. I am deeply involved, having founded a local grove. I came to paganism via a long, winding path that started with free-thinking parents, was fueled by psychedelics in college, and influenced by a brief flirtation with Buddhism. I first experimented with Wicca, but soon realized it wasn't for me before finding that there are other kinds of pagans. And since then I haven't looked back. For me the defining moment was when I realized that I truly was an animist ... that I saw everything in the world as having its own spirit. From that it wasn't difficult for me to accept the notion of multiple gods. I haven't been happier since I came to terms with this. My then-boyfriend, who was bitterly in rebellion against Christianity, also found the path. We're now married and expecting our first child, who we will be raising in our path.