Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Philosophy


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-12-2005, 09:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
Upright
 
Help me out

Okay guys, I really don't know who to talk to about this, so here it is. I'm 19 and a Roman Catholic, but lately I've been doubting the existence of God, or heaven, or the whole Jesus story. I guess it's because I'm a science student in college and none of the professor's who I really respect are religiousl people. I've been thinking that for thousands of years, people have been using gods to give answers to the unexplained, what if I am making the same mistake? Also I've read about reasons as to why Jesus may not have been dead when they took him off the cross, so his coming back isn't really a miracle. And the church is just going downhill too, and I don't know where to find the answers to my questions. So thanks for the help.
thebellman is offline  
Old 01-12-2005, 10:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
Psycho
 
noodles's Avatar
 
Location: sc
i'm not really sure where to go with this response

just as belief in God or any religion (i'm talking genuine, intelligent faith here, not brainless zombie faith) is something that you have to work out yourself, so is non-belief. there's little that we can say to make you not believe, we can present to you ideas that you'd have to sort out on your own.

if thats what you're looking for, i can try and help you out, if i can.
noodles is offline  
Old 01-13-2005, 01:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
Shade
 
Nisses's Avatar
 
Location: Belgium
thebellman,

don't pin yourself down on specifics. I'm roman catholic too, and I went to a roman catholic school. My own teacher, a catholic minister taught me at the age of 14 things I won't forget:
The Virgin Mary, may or may not have been a virgin in the sense we attribute to the word today. But that doesn't diminish her figure, her stature as the mother behind Jesus, the one that supported him, the one that always kept her faith.
The same way, you can listen to critics saying: He may not have been entirely dead etc. But does that really take away from the message He tried to bring across? Does it make him or his ideas any less?

As for doubting the existence of God and Heaven... There Noodles is right, it's something you have to work out for yourself.
Just keep this one thing in mind: questioning your faith is not a bad thing per se. If you scrutinize it, and it holds up, then it's all the stronger afterwards.
__________________
Moderation should be moderately moderated.
Nisses is offline  
Old 01-13-2005, 04:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
Illusionary
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
You can doubt the Church and the Current Biblical interpretation, and still have faith in God.In fact.....I would say it is extremely healthy to question the Man Made contructs of religion. Honestly, I very much doubt this "God" entity needs a church.
__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
tecoyah is offline  
Old 01-13-2005, 06:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
I change
 
ARTelevision's Avatar
 
Location: USA
"... been doubting the existence of God, or heaven, or the whole Jesus story." indicates, to me a loss of faith. That's fairly common when one begins observing, reasoning, and questioning things. IMO there's nothing to be concerned about here. Questioning things and looking at them anew is healthy. Losing one's faith is something that happens to some people. I wouldn't be the one to advise you that you should try to get it back. There are others who would have advice in that direction of course.
__________________
create evolution
ARTelevision is offline  
Old 01-13-2005, 06:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Ireland
I've had similar doubts in the past and I've found the best thing is not to put pressure on myself to sort them out immediately.

When I've questioned my beliefs in the past, I've often come to the conclusion that I've been questioning the Church and religion, rather than the existance of God.
With this realisation, it has been quite easy for me to redefine my realtionship with God, with less of a reliance on the Church.


I can also now live with my understanding that the bible should not necesssarily be taken that literally. The messages that are in it at much more important than whether an event actually happened or not.
After all, much of it was written long after the episodes happened, so accuracy might not always be its strong point.

Again, dont stress yourself by needing quick answers to very important questions. the answers will come if you give them time.
Good Luck with you quest.
FatherTed is offline  
Old 01-13-2005, 07:42 AM   #7 (permalink)
Addict
 
Master_Shake's Avatar
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Quote:
I don't know where to find the answers to my questions.
Have you considered the possibility that there may not be answers to your questions. At least, not the kind of answers you are looking for. Douglas Adams in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," wrote that the answer to life, the universe and everything is 42. If that answer doesn't make sense to you, then perhaps you need to consider that you don't really know what the question is.

Either way, asking questions is never a bad thing.
__________________
-------------
You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.
Master_Shake is offline  
Old 01-13-2005, 11:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
Mad Philosopher
 
asaris's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
A few things; there are many discussions of religiousness in this forum, and I'd recommend reading them. This is a pretty intelligent group, and the discussions are usually civil. But keep in mind that doubt is normal; the author C. S. Lewis wrote that he has doubts as a Christian, but then again, he also had doubts as an atheist. And there are plenty of people who are intelligent, rational, and Christian. The two professors I worked the most with when I was a Philosophy student were both very intelligent men, but one was Catholic and the other was atheist/agnostic.
__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche
asaris is offline  
Old 01-13-2005, 12:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
Psycho
 
keyshawn's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebellman
I've been thinking that for thousands of years, people have been using gods to give answers to the unexplained, what if I am making the same mistake?

That's very similar to the argument made by Freurbach [sp?] He said man used God as a psychological crutch.


It might help if you can talk to atheology prof. [assuming your at a christian college]; or the chaplain [im pretty sure secular schools have them] or even write an email to your favorite theology teacher in high school.

Good luck and god bless,
keyshawn


/roman catholic
__________________
currently reading:

currently playing :
keyshawn is offline  
Old 01-13-2005, 03:16 PM   #10 (permalink)
Sky Piercer
 
CSflim's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
I agree with asaris, there are dozens of threads on this very board dealing with the existence or non-existence of God. Most of them are very much worth reading.
__________________
CSflim is offline  
Old 01-13-2005, 11:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
MSD
The sky calls to us ...
 
MSD's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: CT
After years of Catholic brainwashing, I felt the same way that you do for a while, and now I'm not sure whether to call myself atheist or agnostic. It you have some specifics that you want me to address, I'll be happy to answer questions, but you really threw out some broad questions in the beginning. I am opposed to religion, but I'm also opposed toyakking away at people who don't want to hear it, so if you do want to hear about the issues I have with religion, just ask.
MSD is offline  
Old 01-14-2005, 12:09 AM   #12 (permalink)
whosoever
 
martinguerre's Avatar
 
Location: New England
the presence of doubt does not signal the death of faith, not by any means. while i respect art's opinion, i couldn't disagree more in this regard. just read "job" and you'll know what i mean. there are moments of profound disconnection, and the emptiness is striking...and i think its important that we listen to those moments...just going back to things as usual is a recipe for a starved faith.

doubt is part and parcel of our lives. i certainly won't tell you not to feel it...but i will tell you to find good company. seek out people who you can ask tough questions with...don't agree with everything they say, but just to work out ideas with, and try ideas on.

just being open, knowing that your ideas are in flux...i have confidence that God will do something amazing in your life.

ps...i'm not sure what you've read about Good Friday that you're referring to...but let me assure you that the only part of that week that is really a matter of faith happens on Easter. not to be macabe...but the romans were well versed in the ways of death...they wouldn't have screwed up.
__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

Last edited by martinguerre; 01-14-2005 at 01:57 AM.. Reason: phrasing
martinguerre is offline  
Old 01-14-2005, 01:17 AM   #13 (permalink)
Psycho
 
MuadDib's Avatar
 
Do whats right for you man. I was raised Lutheran, then became atheist, then practiced Buddhism, then I spent a year in Catholic Conversion classes, and now I'm learning about Judaism. The point is that without my atheist stint I would never have resolved a lot of issues with my faith nor would have I come to terms with some of the basics about religion that I now know I believe. So I think you need to be open and explore your spirituality where ever it leads you. In my opinion, as long as you are seriously pursuing the spiritual dimension of your life (even if that means not believing in it) then you are better off than the billions that never even really think about what they are taught. Plus in the end I think you will come to find the answers you need to be happy with your life one way or another.
__________________
"The courts that first rode the warhorse of virtual representation into battle on the res judicata front invested their steed with near-magical properties." ~27 F.3d 751
MuadDib is offline  
Old 01-14-2005, 01:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
Easy Rider
 
flstf's Avatar
 
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
In my opinion questioning your faith and or the foundations of your beliefs is a good thing. To blindly accept any religion may be comforting but it will get you no closer to the true nature of things if that is your goal. Some of us have found peace of mind in the knowledge that we just don't know and may not ever know what our existence is all about.

If you are looking for where to search for answers regarding your doubts about the Roman Catholic faith, I am sure there are many Catholics who have been down that path before. I would talk to them and see if their reasoning makes sense to you. Some of them can probably be found in these forums.
flstf is offline  
Old 01-17-2005, 10:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
Crazy
 
It's easy, I think, to fall in an atheist sort of attitude when you begin to question religion, because the obvious answer to "Is there a God" is yes or no, and if you have issues with Roman Catholicism than you're going to lean towards no. The problem here is that no matter what you do as an atheist or an agnostic, you don't have the sort of...hmm...cushion to fall back on as with any religion you could belong to. It's my sad conclusion thus far that really no religion has gotten the answer right so far, but some of them have their hearts in the right place (I'm working with Lutheranism now, and from day 1 I've had questions). Despite my apprehensions with most religions, I've come to realize that they are a great way to connect yourself to SOMETHING, something that you can't define and don't really need to. I would say that a good way to see this...undefined energy, you should check out a Russian orthodox church service, because you'll be hard-pressed to say there isn't something out there that causes a room full of people to just cry out and sing from the depths of their souls, and it may not be what we consider God, but it's something.
For that matter, look at the music of Bach, or Handel's Messiah (Corny, but he wrote it in 2 weeks with almost no sleeping or eating) and consider the purity of intention they had in writing for the church. Bach wrote a cantata for every single Sunday of the year, one for each service. In the same vein, Ravi Shankar did the same basic thing with Hindu music..he studied 16 hours a day for 8 years to learn virtually every church song hinduism has. This is all just my opinion, and being a musician, this is the way I find proof (or evidence) for what I feel. You'll see for yourself eventually.
Dbass is offline  
Old 01-18-2005, 05:58 AM   #16 (permalink)
Addict
 
Master_Shake's Avatar
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Quote:
The problem here is that no matter what you do as an atheist or an agnostic, you don't have the sort of...hmm...cushion to fall back on as with any religion you could belong to.
I actually find great comfort in realizing that there is no giant invisible man standing behind me looking over my shoulder and spying on everything I do.
__________________
-------------
You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.
Master_Shake is offline  
 

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:35 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360