thebellman

Okay guys, I really don't know who to talk to about this, so here it is. I'm 19 and a Roman Catholic, but lately I've been doubting the existence of God, or heaven, or the whole Jesus story. I guess it's because I'm a science student in college and none of the professor's who I really respect are religiousl people. I've been thinking that for thousands of years, people have been using gods to give answers to the unexplained, what if I am making the same mistake? Also I've read about reasons as to why Jesus may not have been dead when they took him off the cross, so his coming back isn't really a miracle. And the church is just going downhill too, and I don't know where to find the answers to my questions. So thanks for the help.

noodles

i'm not really sure where to go with this response

just as belief in God or any religion (i'm talking genuine, intelligent faith here, not brainless zombie faith) is something that you have to work out yourself, so is non-belief. there's little that we can say to make you not believe, we can present to you ideas that you'd have to sort out on your own.

if thats what you're looking for, i can try and help you out, if i can.

Nisses

thebellman,

don't pin yourself down on specifics. I'm roman catholic too, and I went to a roman catholic school. My own teacher, a catholic minister taught me at the age of 14 things I won't forget:
The Virgin Mary, may or may not have been a virgin in the sense we attribute to the word today. But that doesn't diminish her figure, her stature as the mother behind Jesus, the one that supported him, the one that always kept her faith.
The same way, you can listen to critics saying: He may not have been entirely dead etc. But does that really take away from the message He tried to bring across? Does it make him or his ideas any less?

As for doubting the existence of God and Heaven... There Noodles is right, it's something you have to work out for yourself.
Just keep this one thing in mind: questioning your faith is not a bad thing per se. If you scrutinize it, and it holds up, then it's all the stronger afterwards.

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tecoyah

You can doubt the Church and the Current Biblical interpretation, and still have faith in God.In fact.....I would say it is extremely healthy to question the Man Made contructs of religion. Honestly, I very much doubt this "God" entity needs a church.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

ARTelevision

"... been doubting the existence of God, or heaven, or the whole Jesus story." indicates, to me a loss of faith. That's fairly common when one begins observing, reasoning, and questioning things. IMO there's nothing to be concerned about here. Questioning things and looking at them anew is healthy. Losing one's faith is something that happens to some people. I wouldn't be the one to advise you that you should try to get it back. There are others who would have advice in that direction of course.

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FatherTed

I've had similar doubts in the past and I've found the best thing is not to put pressure on myself to sort them out immediately.

When I've questioned my beliefs in the past, I've often come to the conclusion that I've been questioning the Church and religion, rather than the existance of God.
With this realisation, it has been quite easy for me to redefine my realtionship with God, with less of a reliance on the Church.


I can also now live with my understanding that the bible should not necesssarily be taken that literally. The messages that are in it at much more important than whether an event actually happened or not.
After all, much of it was written long after the episodes happened, so accuracy might not always be its strong point.

Again, dont stress yourself by needing quick answers to very important questions. the answers will come if you give them time.
Good Luck with you quest.

Master_Shake

Have you considered the possibility that there may not be answers to your questions. At least, not the kind of answers you are looking for. Douglas Adams in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," wrote that the answer to life, the universe and everything is 42. If that answer doesn't make sense to you, then perhaps you need to consider that you don't really know what the question is.

Either way, asking questions is never a bad thing.

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You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

asaris

A few things; there are many discussions of religiousness in this forum, and I'd recommend reading them. This is a pretty intelligent group, and the discussions are usually civil. But keep in mind that doubt is normal; the author C. S. Lewis wrote that he has doubts as a Christian, but then again, he also had doubts as an atheist. And there are plenty of people who are intelligent, rational, and Christian. The two professors I worked the most with when I was a Philosophy student were both very intelligent men, but one was Catholic and the other was atheist/agnostic.

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"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

keyshawn

That's very similar to the argument made by Freurbach [sp?] He said man used God as a psychological crutch.


It might help if you can talk to atheology prof. [assuming your at a christian college]; or the chaplain [im pretty sure secular schools have them] or even write an email to your favorite theology teacher in high school.

Good luck and god bless,
keyshawn


/roman catholic

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CSflim

I agree with asaris, there are dozens of threads on this very board dealing with the existence or non-existence of God. Most of them are very much worth reading.

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MSD

After years of Catholic brainwashing, I felt the same way that you do for a while, and now I'm not sure whether to call myself atheist or agnostic. It you have some specifics that you want me to address, I'll be happy to answer questions, but you really threw out some broad questions in the beginning. I am opposed to religion, but I'm also opposed toyakking away at people who don't want to hear it, so if you do want to hear about the issues I have with religion, just ask.

martinguerre

the presence of doubt does not signal the death of faith, not by any means. while i respect art's opinion, i couldn't disagree more in this regard. just read "job" and you'll know what i mean. there are moments of profound disconnection, and the emptiness is striking...and i think its important that we listen to those moments...just going back to things as usual is a recipe for a starved faith.

doubt is part and parcel of our lives. i certainly won't tell you not to feel it...but i will tell you to find good company. seek out people who you can ask tough questions with...don't agree with everything they say, but just to work out ideas with, and try ideas on.

just being open, knowing that your ideas are in flux...i have confidence that God will do something amazing in your life.

ps...i'm not sure what you've read about Good Friday that you're referring to...but let me assure you that the only part of that week that is really a matter of faith happens on Easter. not to be macabe...but the romans were well versed in the ways of death...they wouldn't have screwed up.

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For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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MuadDib

Do whats right for you man. I was raised Lutheran, then became atheist, then practiced Buddhism, then I spent a year in Catholic Conversion classes, and now I'm learning about Judaism. The point is that without my atheist stint I would never have resolved a lot of issues with my faith nor would have I come to terms with some of the basics about religion that I now know I believe. So I think you need to be open and explore your spirituality where ever it leads you. In my opinion, as long as you are seriously pursuing the spiritual dimension of your life (even if that means not believing in it) then you are better off than the billions that never even really think about what they are taught. Plus in the end I think you will come to find the answers you need to be happy with your life one way or another.

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flstf

In my opinion questioning your faith and or the foundations of your beliefs is a good thing. To blindly accept any religion may be comforting but it will get you no closer to the true nature of things if that is your goal. Some of us have found peace of mind in the knowledge that we just don't know and may not ever know what our existence is all about.

If you are looking for where to search for answers regarding your doubts about the Roman Catholic faith, I am sure there are many Catholics who have been down that path before. I would talk to them and see if their reasoning makes sense to you. Some of them can probably be found in these forums.

Dbass

It's easy, I think, to fall in an atheist sort of attitude when you begin to question religion, because the obvious answer to "Is there a God" is yes or no, and if you have issues with Roman Catholicism than you're going to lean towards no. The problem here is that no matter what you do as an atheist or an agnostic, you don't have the sort of...hmm...cushion to fall back on as with any religion you could belong to. It's my sad conclusion thus far that really no religion has gotten the answer right so far, but some of them have their hearts in the right place (I'm working with Lutheranism now, and from day 1 I've had questions). Despite my apprehensions with most religions, I've come to realize that they are a great way to connect yourself to SOMETHING, something that you can't define and don't really need to. I would say that a good way to see this...undefined energy, you should check out a Russian orthodox church service, because you'll be hard-pressed to say there isn't something out there that causes a room full of people to just cry out and sing from the depths of their souls, and it may not be what we consider God, but it's something.
For that matter, look at the music of Bach, or Handel's Messiah (Corny, but he wrote it in 2 weeks with almost no sleeping or eating) and consider the purity of intention they had in writing for the church. Bach wrote a cantata for every single Sunday of the year, one for each service. In the same vein, Ravi Shankar did the same basic thing with Hindu music..he studied 16 hours a day for 8 years to learn virtually every church song hinduism has. This is all just my opinion, and being a musician, this is the way I find proof (or evidence) for what I feel. You'll see for yourself eventually.

Master_Shake

I actually find great comfort in realizing that there is no giant invisible man standing behind me looking over my shoulder and spying on everything I do.

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You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.