Fourtyrulz

Either scientists DO find that ape ancestor or flat out, indisputable proof that evolution if true? Or if we make contact with extraterrestrial life?

How will the religions of the world stand up to that pressure? No doubt some would be fulfilling some ancient prophecy by talking to aliens, but what about the major Yahweh religons: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam...built on the ideas that the universe was created by a single diety. Would there be an enormous backlash immediately or would they struggle on in some obsolete existence? Further than that, what if aliens came with their own religious beliefs that THEY were in fact created by a single God, therefore the sole creatures in the universe. Certainly a single god did not create both human and alien life in his image. Personally, I think the outcome of this event would be devastating to human kind (and possibly alien kind ). In the case of proof of evolution, I think the church would refute and preach against the scientist's findings enough to make it cause little impact in the religious community. That would be a sad, sad day indeed. *Prays for the aliens to take me with them!*

What does the philosophy board think about this?

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the·o·ry - a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation.
faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
- Merriam-Webster's dictionary

zen_tom

Religion will stand up under any kind of pressure, if it didn't, it would have died out long ago.

As for it being devastating to human kind, why is that? It might just be the kick up the backside we need to finally realise that we're all pretty much the same.

typhus

I agree. I think it would help unify everyone. The real problem is getting everyone to believe in science. I think it would have to take an actual visit from and ET to convince the entire world that we are one equal species.

john_713

And im sure there would still be doubters in some parts of the world. Of course the arrival of aliens presents other problems of their own. They could be aggressive and 'independence day' like? Or passive like the vulans in star trek? Or something completely different. If they are aggressive the problems are obvious a large scale conflict against a possibly far advanced power. If not how badly will people cope with a new race if at the present time they can't even cope with themselves? Also depending where they land a special bond would be created between themselves and that nation. I doubt all the world would immediately come together and share in making friends with the aliens, there would be tough competition between eachother to become closest to them.

A new arrival isn't going to undo all that has happened in the thousands of years of history we have in our cultures. Perhaps over time it would but not right away.

Yakk

Neither are all that important to the core of most world religions by now. A few fringe religions would either evaporate or deny what happened.

It is the tenant most of the Abrahamists religions that their single god created the entire universe. That an alien race also believes in a single god would either be interprited as the aliens being mistaken (the fact that the majority of humanity disagrees with their religion hasn't shaken their faith), or the aliens are worshipping the same god, in a mistaken fashon.

The term "in god's image" can be interprited to refer to consciousness and intelligence, not unimportant features like physical shape and appearance. Then both mankind and alien species could be made in the image of god -- in fact, you could interprit the genesis account to refer to the creation of intelligent life instead of the creation of mankind in particular.

Don't underestimate the hardiness of religious belief. Their belief structures are well built, and quite resistant to outside shock. Belief structures that lack this property tend to not last long.

More interesting, and somewhat related, would be: what if aliens showed up, and one of their religions shows definate correspondance with one or another human religion?

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

CSflim

First of all, science doesn't work on finding "indisputable proof" that anything is true.

However there are few reasonable people who would dispute the fact that the earth rotates around the sun rather than vice-versa.

(Woah! Back up. Did I just contradict myself by reffering to this as a 'fact'? No not at all. I used the word in the ordinary every-day sense of the word; in the same sense that it is a fact that the table in front of me exists.)

The reason people feel this way about the earth rotating around the sun is because of the vast amount of evidence in its favor.

So perhaps your question could be reasonably rephrased as
"What's going to happen when scientists find overwhelming evidence that evolution is true"

The answer to this question is that there is no "going to happen" about it. It has already happened.
So has has religion reacted?

Well, most religious people (the pope for example) have accepted this modification of their world view; reviewed their sacred texts and inserted ambiguity where there previously was none, so as to make the claim that there is no contradiction between their religious world view and the scientific one. Any contradiction is only an 'apparent contradiction' based on a naive reading of the appropriate text.

As for the others? Well, if you can't say anything nice...

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flstf

Evolution:
I don't think proof of evolution would change things all that much. The Christians that I know who also believe in evolution think that the old testament writings regarding the creation have to be taken with a grain of salt anyway. I think most religions would adapt.

Aliens:
This could be a whole new ball game. All of our thinking religious and otherwise would be open to new interpretations. I hope we make contact in my lifetime.

typhus

I hope we make contact also in my life time, or at least find microbes somewhere. I wonder how finding microbes would affect religion compared to intelligent life visiting us?

Master_Shake

CSflim has it right on evolution, as to aliens:

It depends on why they would visit us. If they came to destroy us then I think it would have a very negative effect on religion.

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You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

ObieX

I think that many christians have already worked evolution into their religion to some extent. Believeing god got the ball rolling etc. I think anything concerning aliens would also find a way into this way of reasoning as well. Maybe that the aliens are angels or something like that.. maybe evil demons.

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We Must Dissent.

synic213

I equate this to a Christian asking a non-believer "What will you do when the son of God returns and carries all the believers back to heaven with him, leaving the rest of you to pick up the scraps and eventually die a misserable, eternal death? Will this event change your thoughts about evolution and/or ET?" No offense, but it sounds kind of silly from from both sides.

Stating that evolution WILL eventually be proven true, or that extra terrestials WILL eventually show up is almost as naive as putting your faith in a higher power, whom some like to call God. That being said, I don't think my belief in God would change much at all if Evolution/ET showed up, because my belief in God doesn't come from a (The?) Book, and I think that's where most of the contradictions occur.

Fourtyrulz

Yeah, like THAT would ever happen! But you're right it is just a silly question, but though it seems silly it can spawn pretty serious contemplation, as witnessed by this thread.

Well we've lived a pretty arrogant life for thousands of years thinking we are the only life in the universe. Here we are the almighty human race meeting other beings from who knows where, don't you think it would make us feel pretty insignificant? Which brings up another point, how do you think society as a whole would treat them if they are in fact friendly, yet superior, beings? I would love to think that the world would embrace them and whatever they want to share with us, but another part of me thinks that (like usual) we would try to kill them. I seriously think it would be the most defining moment of humankind. Man, do I sound like a total nut or what?

I guess I hadn't been thinking of past pressure put on the church. Most astronomers were making the bad list all through ancient times through the middle ages: discovering that the Earth was not the center of the universe, that the Earth is in fact not flat, etc. But nothing has even come close to idea of alien contact with Earth, that event would eclipse all others before it.

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the·o·ry - a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation.
faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
- Merriam-Webster's dictionary

Johnny Rotten

A large part of religion is simply believing in something larger than yourself. Whether a particular faith follows the Christian creation story or humans being the only intelligent life besides us isn't relevant, in the long run. Hope and moral conviction are stronger than scientific discovery. Perhaps it's because it's the outer cortex, the higher brain function of thought process, reacts last to new information. Tradition, instinct, and emotion are quite resilient.

Yakk

I'd start fighting the war against a force so evil, they would condemn to eternal pain, torment and damnation a being who didn't unconditionally worship them. Sure, the Bible says the other side loses -- but it also says there is a fight, and I'd go down fighting in such a just cause. Plus, if it turns out the Bible is the Word of God, it means that the prediction of future victory might just be propoganda -- a faint hope, against a power capable of making a world, but a hope.

Now, there could be mitigating circumstances, so the particular situation would be something I'd examine -- possibly that God dude isn't as evil as the situation seems. But, I don't bow down before bullies, just because they have a big stick.

The above is said in jest (with thanks to RAH's Job: a comedy of justice, which is the second funniest story I've ever read about Armageddon (the funniest being 'Good Omens', by Pratchett and Gaiman)) -- there are many human interpritations of the Diety described in the Bible, the one that condemns the non-believers and the unshriven to eternal damnation at the moment of a literal rapture is a Diety I'd fight against, not for. A less jest-filled answer would be that, if there is a world-wide event (like a 'rapture') which convinces most people that someone is Jesus returned, that is the best sign you'll ever get that the 'messiah' is in fact the Opposition, or the anti-christ, who must be opposed at all costs. People are supposed to be decieved en-mass that the anti-christ is indeed the messiah returned.

Bah, I shouldn't talk about religion in public forums.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

martinguerre

i think the compliment might be a touch backhanded, but i think it's apt nonetheless.

as noted in another thread, most of the mainline demoninations in America teach a stance on creation that is compatible with (though often not outright endorsing) evolution. I give official acroymns, and the name that's commonly used. That said, not all Lutherans, etc...would follow that. Missouiri/Wisconsin Synods, for example. But, this is a pretty striking majority.

ELCA (Lutheran), PCUSA (Presybeterian), RCC (Catholic), UCC, LDS (Mormon), DoC (Disiples), UMC (Methodist), Greek Orthodox, and mine...American Baptist.

http://www.cesame-nm.org/Viewpoint/c.../position.html

As a Baptist, in training for ministry, i personally see no conflict between extra terrestrial life or proof of evolution and my faith.

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For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

OFKU0

If the premise of religion were introduced to people at the age of 40 rather than small children, it would be obselete by now.

If the premise of aliens were introduced to people as small children rather than to people at age 40, there would be millions of Steven Spielbergs in the world.

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

tellumFS

I agree with the second, but not the first. Most people like to think that there is *something* out there. God isn't a bad thing to beleive in. At the very least, faith in God provides solace in that maybe there isn't a brick wall at the end, that things happen for a reason. These feelings are natural, I think.

There are bad things that come with religion, to be sure. But there has been quite a bit of good. There's a reason why Jesus was a rabble rouser and Christianity was popular with the poor. Faith provides those without power a sense of control, even if yes, they maybe controlled by it (the Church) to an extent. (and how much depends on the individual.)

But don't pidgeon hole those who are religious. Even the easy target among organized religions, the Roman Catholic Church, has been flexible enough to acknowlege evolution as a sound theory.

cybersharp

I dont beleive that Alians showing up would affect relgion in any major bad way.. Though I think if alians where to show up that we the human race would not be very peacefull with them... I dont beleive we would exist very well knowing that there is a whole race better and farther than us...

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0PtIcAl

john_713

It would question a fundamentalist view of the Bible, how can it be all true if aliens are not mentioned in Genesis? But I agree, a liberal view, one where the Bible is not literal but some guidelines and cant be interpreted in different ways should be able to stand up to the arrival and find a way to explain it along with the existance of God.

ARTelevision

I think the forces of secularization gain their momentum from the experienced irrelevance of religion to people's lives - not from some external evidence. Religion is uniquely powerful in its ability to ignore external evidence. I see secularization continuing on its own trajectory but not gaining much additional momentum if those events come to pass.

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create evolution

Master_Shake

Many people seem to have the idea that if Earth were visited by aliens then all of humanity would set aside its petty differences and unite as one people.

I've recently decided that's not very likely. I think what is more likely is that humanity would fracture into myriads of different groups all interpreting the aliens as different things, and war and strife might be even more prevalent than it is now. I don't think this is just because of religion's crazed hold on people's minds, but because it is simply in the nature of people to refuse to accept change.

I believe an examination of historical instances where one culture encounters another bears this out. Although western society has usually been on the dominating or "discovering" side of such cultural meetings, I think it is just as likely to act as say the Chinese did when confronted with outside influences. The society split into different factions, some trying to maintain old world values, and others embracing the new culture.
http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~p.../chinhist.html

That groups still espousing such values still exist supports the view that cultural differences cannot be sorted out within a few decades or generations, but it is an inherent characteristic of humanity that there will always be internal conflict.

I think there are other examples of one society fracturing into pro and anti foreign elements throughout history. America still deals with the problem of "illegal aliens" to this day. Now, probably were real aliens to visit us it is unlikely they would be looking for sub-minimum wage jobs in southern california, but is there any doubt that groups opposed to contact with aliens would form? The aliens might not share our family values, or they might be vegetarians, whatever the issue, I think it is likely that humanity's fear of the unknown and reluctance to progress as a groups would lead to war and strife.

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You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

flstf

You could very well be right. Our track record when cultures first mix is not very good. But if there is any chance these guys can answer some of the mysteries of our universe I hope I'm still around. Especially if they have managed to travel vast distances in their lifetime to get here.

I imagine most of the world would be in disbelief for a while. Hopefully humanity's reaction to them would not cause too much strife and turmoil. At least not until we have had a chance to ask them a few questions. I have always assumed that any advanced alien life would be willing to share their knowledge. That may be naive. Of course it's also naive to think we will make contact any time soon, LOL.