blackjack

Or why I want to move to Montana.

I try to keep my son on the straight and narrow. i give him chores to do around the house my wife make sure he gets his home work done we both make sure he doesnt sell his little sister to some traveling salesperson...but what kills me is when his friends come over. they cant belive i make him work around the house before he can play on his ps2 or make him mow the lawn. their parents give them money just because...my boy has to work for it. im not trying to tell anyone how to raise kids...my personal opinion is if your "raising" your kids your doing the right thing anyway...
anyhow, sounds like they are about to kill the dog in the other room so ill stop my little rant right about here...
hehe..have a good one.
Blackjack

splck

blackkjack,
You're not alone. My kids have to do their fair share of the work around the house just as I had to when I was a kid.

hope your dog is ok.

__________________
nice line eh?

vanblah

I dread the day that my daughter tries the old "but Suzie's parents don't make her ... blahblahblah."

How do you handle that?

JStrider

tell her your not Suzie's parents....and shes not Suzie

__________________
-=JStrider=-

~Clatto Verata Nicto

vanblah

Yes ... that's what I would say. But of course, it probably won't end with that. She'll get mad and start telling me that I'm unfair etc.

You know ... we've all been there on one side or the other.

avhg1

I love having very young boys. You can still make chores exciting. They think it's really cool to get to help load and unload the dishwasher. The best part is that we haven't gotten to the money stage. Just out of curiosity what is the going rate for allowance? I remember mine what about $2-3 a week.

sexymama

Tell her, your damn right I'm unfair. I love you too much to do what is fair in your eyes.

Then, when she tries the, "I'll never do that to my kids." Say, "That is great, I honor your right to raise your kids the way you want to. For now, I get to raise my kids the way I want."

__________________
If you can go deeply into lovemaking, the ego disappears. That is the beauty of lovemaking, that it is another source of a glimpse of god

It's not about being perfect; it's about developing some skill at managing imperfection.

nospam

I had to do chores when I was a kid. Sure I knew kids who didn't have to lift a finger and their parents gave them money...Difference now is that they think they deserve a high paying job without working and can't believe how much I get paid...cause I WORK!!!

My parents taught me that I have to work hard to make good money...go figure!

As far as being "fair" - lifes not fair...I got used to it.

Janey

my sister gives her kids half there age per week in allowance:

The 15 year old gets $7.50, the 12 yo gets $6 etc...

This makes it fair for all of them, and gives them some walking around money. Not enough to get spoiled, but enough to be able to get a magazine, or fries or something.

MikeyChalupa

On a related note...

There's a wireless ad on the radio around here now that goes something like...

"Kids... tired of your parents bugging you about going over your minutes every month?"

At that point, my wife and I always say in unison... "THEN GET A FUCKIN' JOB AND PAY FOR IT YOURSELF!"

Like it's your Constitutional right to have your parents pay for your cell phone when you're in 9th grade. You want a camera phone that gives you thousands of minutes a month, YOU pay for it. You want a simple phone you can use to get in touch with me to tell me you'll be home late or need to be picked up somewhere, I will be happy to supply you with a pre-paid phone with 100-200 minutes a month.

Other than that, I will happily supply you with all the quarters you need to use a pay phone. If your friends parents see fit to pay for your friends ridiculous plans and funky phones, then they probably won't mind you placing a call on it now and then.

Of course, my oldest son is 3 and it's going to be a while before I have to implement this rule.

Anyway...

As a kid, my brothers and I mowed/raked the lawn, took out trash, did dishes, shovelled snow, and were fortunate enough to have parents who thought that those chores deserved a "salary". I think it's an excellent introduction to the concept work=pay. Other kids I knew did all those chores for free simply because they were told to. I don't think an allowance "just because" is necessarily a bad thing, but it could lead to taking your parents for granted and an underappreciation of how you will eventually have to earn your keep in this world. In other words, these kids should STILL have chores to do around the house, even if you don't want to tie the allowance to the chores directly.

-Mikey

Averett

Allowance? Never had that. We were expected to do things around the house to help out, and I never once thought of asking for money for it. I always saw it as helping the family with its function.

__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

ShaniFaye

I must have done something right with my daughter...she earns an allowance and saves it to buy things she doesnt want to wait to get for christmas or her birthday (this means kinda high dollar video games or something) which means it takes her awhile to save up...but she came and told me...

So and so doesnt take care of her toys, she breaks them all the time...I bet she wouldnt do that if SHE'D had to buy them herself

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

World's King

I just never had friends.

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

f6twister

Part of being a parent is to prepare your children for their adult years. Unless you're from the Hilton or Osbourne family, you will need to work to make money. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't start early on and know what it is like to work hard and get rewarded for the effort you put into the job you do. I cleaned my room weekly and did the dishes every night for $2/week growing up. Yeah, the amount has changed over the years but the reason behind it is still the same and it should remain that way.

__________________
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. Calvin

william

It is inherent that you, as the parent, instill responsibility into your children. You shape them and mold them (so to speak) for how they will face the world. You don't want them to be useless, incompetent shrills all of their life. If nothing else, you can always tell them "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger". They may bitch now, but they'll appreciate it later.
Can't speak on allowances. I didn't have any of my own money until I got a job at 15.

Ustwo

At one point my family had 12 adult dogs, and more puppies.

Don't ask.

If anything teaches you to do well in life, its having to scoop a lot of shit when you were a kid.

PS. I don't own a dog.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Daoust

If anything teaches you to do well in life, its having to scoop a lot of shit when you were a kid.

Here's my plan: I'm going to give my kid whatever they ask. I'm not going to make them work for anything, I'm going to give them everything they need without having them do anything for it. I'm going to listen to my kid complain and whine about all the injustices placed upon them and I will react in a caring compassionate and spineless way. I will not discipline them (for fear my neighbours and friends would think I'm a bad parent) in public or in private, and when the time comes I'll go out and get a job for them. I just think that kids these days have it so hard. I feel sorry for them. I mean, they have so many demands at school, and in the playground, and I mean, I am a single parent. It's not the kids fault. I just want them to be happy.

Does that sound like you? Even any part of it? Then SLAP yourself! and say "bad parent!"

__________________
I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace
But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys

Baron Opal

Amen Brother!

Cleaning out the pigpens on the farm taught me very quickly that I needed a job that used my intellect rather than my back. I couldn't stand shoveling that filthy hay. I needed no more incentive to go to college. Sometimes I think that my father deliberatly found the nastiest jobs he could come up with and made sure that I did them to cultivate the desire for college.

And, I find the owning of pot-bellied pigs repulsive. I can't imagine why someone would actually want a pig as a pet.

tr8

We went through this with our son recently. He has the electronics arsenal and anything else he wants, within reason. His friends like to come here because the house is a great big arcade/toy box. Some of them have questioned him about his chores and told him that he is being mistreated. (LOL)

And then at the parent/teacher conference, I was told that he is displaying "follower" tendencies when he should be a leader and that the sweet little boy from the beginning of the year is "still sweet, but he's got a sarcastic edge about him and it's related to the type of person he is choosing as a friend."

He gets straight A's and does chores and helps take care of the smaller siblings, although lately he's been very reticent about it all.

So our answer is this: Game Over. If he chooses friends that do not fit with our idea of a good citizen, he will not spend time with that friend.

A lot of people might disagree with that but we're not raising plants.

irseg

You remind me of my parents. We get along well, but I don't talk to them much anymore. I only give them a vague overview of what's going on in my life, and I never ask them for advice or anything like that.

Reason being, they were so meddlesome, overbearing, and intrusive throughout my childhood that I went on an 18 year mission to get the hell away and make sure I had no more ties or dependency to them whatsoever. Now they've permanently lost any ability to know about or have a say in what goes on in my life, because they abused their right so much when I was stuck living with them.

It's one thing to keep your kid away from others who are truly a bad influence. But making him get rid of a friend because one teacher thinks it's causing a "sarcastic edge" is definitely overdoing it. Did you ever even meet this kid, or are you just going off the teacher's opinion? It's entirely possible that it is instead caused by you being so intrusive in his life.

I think my parents saw the errors of their ways, because they loosened up a bit with my younger sister. She seems to enjoy her childhood much more, she is closer to them, and she's not whoring herself out and smoking crack in back alleys (in fact she's a straight-A student), so I'd say it worked out for the best.

tr8

Yes, we've met the boys in question and we both thought they were spoiled little punks whose parents were more like buddies than parents. We thought his influence would rub off on them but the opposite has taken place.

We've noticed that he's become mouthy about things that were never a problem before. I think it's because he sees these kids getting/doing whatever they want without any responsibilities and he resents that his life doesn't work that way.

His teacher also told us that he is part of a group that laughs at other kids who participate in class. He seems to be more concerned with fitting in than standing out and has resorted to this kind of bullying so he doesn't appear too smart to be part of his new peer group.

I don't know if you read my whole post since the last paragraph of your reply mentions your sister being a straight A student. Our son is too. In fact, he is part of the 'gifted' class in his school, currently performing 2 grades ahead of his actual level.

I personally don't want to see him waste his potential in some ill-conceived bid to fit in, especially when the crowd he is trying to emulate is the below average group.

My dad moved to another state when I was 16 only to get me away from the crowd I was with. Most of those guys are or have been in prison since then. I have not. I was really mad at my dad but you know what? I didn't wind up in prison. And once I had kids of my own, dad got a whole lot smarter.

Our son is 10 years old and not 16. We are controlling him much more intensely now than we will when he's a teenager. He needs to learn how to pick friends now so we don't have a problem when he's able to do whatever he wants.

It's a shame you feel the way you do about your parents. From your writing skills, ability to express yourself, it appears that they must have done something right for you to have absorbed those abilities while smoking crack and whoring yourself out in back alleys.

macmanmike6100

hell, *I'm* a kid (20) and see it all the time. the problem with my generation (and I hate to be lumped with the rest of them) is that they have no work ethic. the lack of pride in their activities, the lack of respect for those who toil (in whatever they do), all comes from their lack of work ethic.

Rodney

Tr8, I've taught first through fifth-graders (all in the same class!), and a lot of boys definitely tend to get more mouthy about fifth grade. Biology may be a factor, but I think it's that they've gotten old enough to notice the world around them and start trying on roles and behaviors demonstrated by peers and in-groups. (Bullying can be part of it.) Often, these peers are the wrong ones, and this often shows in a tendency to mouth off and be sarcastic. A teacher will tell them to do something, and they will, but only after putting on a little show to prove that they're their own person. (I've learned not to put up with that.)

Personally, I think they're _more_ clueless in fifth grade than in fourth, but that's maybe just because their brains are developing at that age the ability to see life in shades of grey instead of in black and white, and they have to learn to deal with that.

Anyway, you're doing the right thing. Get those other kids away, but keep in mind that he's going to be more and more peer-centered and less and less parent-centered, at at least some self-centered behavior is inevitable for the next few years. That said, I think it's time for a big talk, if you haven't already had one. Explain in detail why you're doing what you do, explain your philosophy, how you got that way in your own life; get his reaction (let him talk at length and ask questions) and honor it, but don't waver. (There is the possibility that he'll raise some good point; if so, consider it and answer it honestly.) He is actually old enough to intellectually understand the ramifications and reasons behind what you're doing nearly on an adult level, even if he emotionally doesn't want to.

He's also ready to start seeing you as a person in your own right instead of as "his dad," this character that supplies all his needs but forces him to do inexplicable chores. He probably thinks his life is tough and beyond his control; explain _yours_ to him.

This all may sound rather touchy-feely, but it's not meant to be. He is probably very curious about adult life, and the more you tell him, flat-out, the better it'll be. As for exerting less control when he becomes a teen -- only as he proves he can handle it. He gets more freedom only as he takes more responsibility. And in the end, if it's done with love, he _will_ thank you.

viejo gringo

My wife and I both worked when the kids were growing up...the girl kept her room
looking really great----the two boys were something else...

One day I gave them the ultimatium--"clean your room, or I will"........

they thought I was kidding, until I walked down the hall with a garbage can, and a number 12 scoop shovel......they beat me to their room, and barred the door until it was clean..

Iguess I got their attention the week before, when I told them to pick up their ball gloves and spikes out of the yard---they didn't---and when they asked their mother where they were at, she told them they went out in the garbage last week, and grandma was not to buy them new ones at a garage sale...

sometimes you just have to get their attention....