YzermanS19

I've been doing a bit of thinking recently...and I came up with this question. Is this it? And what if it is?

By that, I mean these basic assumptions:

-there is no heaven, hell, nirvana, paradise, reincarnation, afterlife. period.
-there is no 'higher purpose' for us
-there is no God, Allah, higher power, Emersonian Oversoul, Great Spirit or anything related otherwise.

What I'm trying to get at is what if this life is the only life we'll ever have and thats it. Once we're dead thats it. Our consciousness and intellect expires and our physical bodies break down. And that we're not here for a reason. We're merely the product of a lot of time and some basic physical laws.

It seems very plausible. Just take Occam's Razor and use it for everything we (generally) believe in.

I realize that this is COMPLETELY absurd to most people. But try to imagine. Are there more assumptions I'm missing? Does this scare anyone?

__________________
the light that burns twice as bright
burns half as long

and you have burned so very, very brightly

:::OshnSoul:::

As you ask questions and ponder possiblities, you grow wiser.
Open your mind to any and all ideas, possibilities, truths, and theories. Whatever your heart tells you, that is your Truth. You create your truth with your thoughts.
I am glad that you brought this up. There are so many ways that Life can be.


If I may, I'd like to throw a twist of perspective here, just as another view.
-On earth is which we create experience of Heaven, Hell, Nirvana, Paradise- life after death I will get to.
-No 'higher purpose'- no purpose at all except to just discover and experience and be who we are. We've been given the free will to do so.
-No 'higher power' as a seperate, authorative entity, but a 'higher source' that resides everywhere, including within us in which we can all tap into.


As far as there being this physical life as being it- okay. But wouldn't you want to have an eternal life? Can we not fathom us as spiritual beings being in physical form having a temporary human experience?

I do respect and truly value your views. Thank you for sharing them. There is not just One Way or One Truth.

ARTelevision

yes, of course.
this is it.

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KellyC

Not completely absurd at all. That is what I've come to realize recently, the thought is scary though, I'll give you that, and I'm trying to come to term with it.

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Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe?
Me: Shit happens.

noahfor

yea, i dont think it is absurd either, ive thought this way since i was a little kid, but when you really grasp life ending, not just life, but your experience, it is the scariest thing in the world, and if you have never been scared by it then you have never truly grasped it, i cant come to terms with it, all i can do is not think about it, pretend that ill be around forever, its easy to say "there is no after life, i get it," but then one day you really will get it, not that its hard to get, and you'll feel it in your bowels

roachboy

i agree with art.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

MojoRisin

ya, this is it. i find the idea comforting. this is it, and why is that 'bad'?

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Dropping a barbell he points to the sky and says "The suns not yellow, It's chicken!"

TawG

my feelings exactly, im living life to the fullest... and im sad alot of the time too, cause i know somethings i will never experience again...

fernweh

I've always looked at it this way: the present moment is all that exists. The past is only a present memory, the future and any speculation about the afterlife is only a present expectation, so you sitting here and reading THIS is all that there is. So whether we go somewhere when we die or whether we're just buried is all a moot point to me anyway.

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f-e-r-n-w-e-h is actually a gross misspelling of the name "gregory"

gondath

This is it. It's only bad if your life is filled with bad experiences.

wilbjammin

This is it. And it is absurd... but no more absurd that if it wasn't "just it". There is no higher purpose at all, and the only purpose you have you either create or choose for yourself. This is a tenuous, morbid freedom that allows us to live in awe, confusion, and somehow on our terms. It is just a matter of having the courage to take responsibility and really make this yours, if you want to.

__________________
Innominate.

YzermanS19

More and more I am agreeing with you ART.

It may be bad to those expecting an afterlife. Some may be very dissapointed to find no reward for a life of piety. Granted some find a life of devout worship completely fulfilling. I am in no way at odds or against that choice.

However, it seems to me more and more that this is it. Its all in how you see the question, a sort of "glass-half-empty"/"glass-half-full" thing.

Is this it? Fantastic. I expected less.

__________________
the light that burns twice as bright
burns half as long

and you have burned so very, very brightly

Rdr4evr

If this is it, I rather die now. Whats the point to live if you know there is no life after death? Makes the whole thing pointless, no?

apeman

uh... no, cos they'll be dead dude

good thread but need work on following arguments to logical conclusions

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pain is inevitable but misery is optional - stick a geranium in your hat and be happy

oktjabr

Generally I do agree with you, but I don't think that Occam's Razor can be applied to cosmology that simply as it isn't a rule of "truth" so to say.

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"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face -- forever."
-G.O.

fernweh

If you could go on living forever and ever, what would the point be then!? Why get out of bed in the morning? If you waste your day, you'd have an infinite supply of days ahead to waste! Finity is what gives life meaning and structure, imho.

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f-e-r-n-w-e-h is actually a gross misspelling of the name "gregory"

:::OshnSoul:::

^^^ because this life is our tool to experience ourselves in a physical environment.
Do we not want to think of there being more than just this life on earth? Why? Because it may be the easiest answer without contemplating the possibilities of an afterlife, not to mention an eternal life? For some, it's just too much too handle in thought. What do you want? What would you like to experience? Whatever it is, THAT is what you will experience.

YzermanS19

Hah. Good point. You get the idea though, its unsettling to those who expect their actions in this life will be repaid in the next.

__________________
the light that burns twice as bright
burns half as long

and you have burned so very, very brightly

ARTelevision

"the next life" - that's a good one.
...what a concept.

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create evolution

josobot

Very good thinking here. But as with the "good" existentialist, one would see this a another good starting point...not a dead end. As a parent and as an older person...I am nearly by double closer in age to my mother as to my youngest, I appreciate how correct humans should live for their offspring as is readily observable in animals...even the lower animals. Even with that assumption that this is absolutely all there is, I would give it up in an instant for one of my children.

powerclown

I want to convert to Islam and have my 739 virgins (at least 10 from each country, none over 25, 38DD preferred) lined up in raunchy lingerie waiting for me to have feral sex with when I die. Those lucky bastards...

Now THAT would be an afterlife worth looking forward to!!

xepherys

First of all, it's really only absurd to people who are generally closed-minded. Nobody, IMHO, should be so absolute in their faith or governing beliefs as to honestly believe nothing else is possible. Sure, maybe there is nothing... if that's the case, why is it scary? If there is NOTHING post-life, then there is nothing to be scared about. Just live life the way you see fit and hope for the best in the end.

YzermanS19

Agreed. But I'm sure we all know a lot of people like that.

__________________
the light that burns twice as bright
burns half as long

and you have burned so very, very brightly

apeman

hasn't anyone mentioned Pascal's Wager? as follows:

if you bet that there is an afterlife and you're right, you win
if you bet there is no afterlife and you're right you win
if you bet there is an afterlife and you're wrong, you lose, but not much
if you bet there is no afterlife and you lose, you GO TO HELL!

of course this is in the context of Christianity... and a very mathematical approach to it too (cost analysis)... interesting though eh?

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pain is inevitable but misery is optional - stick a geranium in your hat and be happy

Mantus

The flaw in the Wager is Pascal's assumption that he knows how to get into this afterlife. There are so many differnt religions, which one should we bet on? Perhaps the only way to get an afterlife is to believe there is no afterlife. Bet away.


Suppose I should say something about the main topic.

Is this it?
No one knows.

If this is it, is it bad?
That is up to you, some people will find peace with it, others will embrace it and other get depressed about it. The concept - as most things - is subjective. In the end though, since we really don’t know what the future hold there is no real point in brooding over it, brood over something you are sure of, like the present.

sapiens

This is it.

Reminds me of a Richard Dawkins quote:

Enjoy life while it lasts.

YzermanS19

Good quote.

__________________
the light that burns twice as bright
burns half as long

and you have burned so very, very brightly

MojoRisin

I was thinking, the delicate balance that is needed to facilitate life hasn't been found anywhere in the universe as it exists on our little earth. To ask "Is this it?", because we need more? We truly are lucky to even be alive.

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Dropping a barbell he points to the sky and says "The suns not yellow, It's chicken!"

zenmaster10665

This is true, however, it is nearly certain that life does exist (proabability-wise) elsewhere in the universe...that is, unless we truly are special and being scientifically led-on by a higher being. I would be more inclined to believe in a God and an "afterlife" if we truly were the only intelligent life in the universe...but i dont think that is true...Maybe we just need an updated concept of what a god is.

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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before.
He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
-Kurt Vonnegut

roachboy

pascal does not claim to know anything about the afterlife as such---because human beings cant know anything at all about an infinite god, the probabilities are worked out at the level of premises--if there is a god, and if it follows that there is an afterlife, etc., then..... ths idea is that faith is a leap into the unknown. the problem for pascal in trying to parse it along probablility lines comes in the part right after the wager is outlined (same pensee)---that the wager says nothing about faith--that's why you have to act like you believe and eventually acting like you believe will make you stupid, like an animal (his terms--look it up), so you will forget that you didnt believe.

pascal is fairly ruthless logically. no mistakes that i have found. its why i like him.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Mantus

Just some of the problems with the argument:

If you look at it from the standpoint of a specific religion then you would be assuming that the particular religion is the correct one.

From a general theist perspective (if you believe in god – any god- you get a reward) an assumption is made that the belief in god results in a reward from god if there was one.

An assumption is made that a god does not reward atheism.

wilbjammin

There is also an assumption of a rational (i.e. human thinking) God. There is an assumption that eternal existence creates meaning in life and is somehow not absurd. There are a thousand other assumptions that go with this.

__________________
Innominate.

YzermanS19

The question I pose, if there is a god, is his/her behavior rational?

Creating a universe, creating inhabitants, creating consciousness and free thought, freedom to worship other gods as they choose, freedom to refute the existance of a god.......it all seems a little irrational, doesn't it?

If I never existed, if god never 'created' me, who would have been the wiser? Seems a little absurd and anthropocentric to say that an omniscient being created me to see how I behaved.

This of course, is looking through the lens at the Christian God....there are other beliefs as to what god is.

__________________
the light that burns twice as bright
burns half as long

and you have burned so very, very brightly

Quadraton

It's simple really.

Live your life well, with the assumption there is nothing after life. When you die, if there is no afterlife, you will have no regrets. If there is an afterlife, you will be pleasantly surprised.

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"A witty saying proves nothing"
- Voltaire

apeman

if you are postulating a "god" then don't you have to assume his behaviour is either rational or "super-rational" ?

i.e. assuming that you can understand how God thinks might be a waste of time ... he's GOD for goodness sake

(this in some ways echos the arguments that God must exist because we can conceive of a god ... St Anselm was it? anyway, one attribute of perfection was existance... which admittedly I don't go for logically speaking)

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pain is inevitable but misery is optional - stick a geranium in your hat and be happy

YzermanS19

The whole thing just seems a long stretch.

__________________
the light that burns twice as bright
burns half as long

and you have burned so very, very brightly

apeman

yep, but every day people ask me to believe things that take a lot of effort... don't you find?

__________________
pain is inevitable but misery is optional - stick a geranium in your hat and be happy

YzermanS19

Yeah, but most the stuff people ask me to believe isn't as life-changing or influencing....

The fact remains the same though, as skeptical as I am....I honestly can't see any overwhelming evidence that this isn't all there is to life.

I admit, there are things that I don't understand, but it seems to me that the common consensus of (certain) religions is that humans are #1 and everything else is here for our use. It seems incredibly anthropo/ethno-centric. I can't say that this is wrong, but I'm highly skeptical that humans aren't as special as we think.

__________________
the light that burns twice as bright
burns half as long

and you have burned so very, very brightly