:::OshnSoul:::

I've had frequent dreams lately, involving places and atmospheres not like my present day reality. I love dreams thouroughly, but lately I've been wondering something more than I have before.
These people in my dreams- people I know (some I am still in contact with, some in my life now), some whom I haven't seen in years, and others- whom I haven't met or even famous people.....I wonder if ever someone from my dream is having the same dream as me. I see these people in my dreams as their souls, but to think that if any of them have remembered dreaming the dream that I had..........maybe a little different in some aspects, but the same general dream. A lot of them I can't remember too much, except that it's a totally different place & sometimes even time- and the people always stick out in my minds more that what happened really. I know it's some sort of connection, but I am just curious as to if others have had the same dreams- us meeting in spirit.
I know there are infinite dimensions, and that there can be infinite number of dreams. We all dream, but it's a matter of remembering them when we wake into this reality. So, as I have thought this out over the past few days, I've come to a possible conclusion. That out of these infinite numbers of dreams we may have, in many different dimensions (times & places) that it may be highly unlikely that the people in my dreams share the same one as me- but if a Soul connection is strong enough, it could happen.
Just curious what you all think on this.

wilbjammin

I've had all kinds of dreams with all kinds of people that I know well, that I've known in the past, and that I hardly know or just remember seeing in a class or something.

Dreaming is a neurological process that causes a lot of brain activity in the memory areas of the brain.

You can probably come to your own conclusions about what I think about this topic.

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:::OshnSoul:::

I see it on a Soul level. A Soul Travel, if you will. It is the time the Soul needs to rejuvinate itself and it chooses to venture off in a different time/place. This is what spawns my question/curiosity of other Souls meeting in the dreams.
I find it highly possible in a wide spectrum, but knowing that there are billions upon billions of Souls on a journey- or simply the dreaming process, that is occuring at the same time, that the chances are slim. That is, unless the person in the dream that I had (which I remembered at awakening), for example, may not remember it, but were there in spirit.
I do know that it does take the brain activity for dreams to occur- it does effect our minds.

anti fishstick

you are coming from a somewhat new age perspective i think. first off, you assume that people have souls. which i don't think is entirely provable. just something fun to think about. i agree that this is equally a "fun" topic to think about, but highly metaphorical, if anything (and by metaphorical, i mean that i don't take these as literal truths). dreams are absolutely random firings of the brain, first and foremost. it has nothing to do with mystical things like "soul travel" or whatever you may call it. i think (again, on a metaphorical level) that it is possible to have the same, or similar dreams when one's "soul connection" is strong. but it would be coincidence that we could draw upon to give meaning behind it.

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crow_daw

While I strongly disagree that dreams are "random firings of the brain", I don't think they're any sort of "soul travel" either. I think that in many cases dreams are deeply psychological. They bring up thoughts and ideas and concerns that are lodged deep within your subconcious. That's just my opinion, I DO believe that dreams can be studied, and interpreted on a scientific level. Now, I don't think that every dream has a certain definitive meaning, no, but I think that a vast majority of them at least contain some message to yourself. I think alot of the time they serve to bring you to terms with an issue that you won't face on your own, willingly. I just think that most of us, unfortunately, completely miss the message.

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hiredgun

brain activity is random during dreams.

however, this does not mean that dreams themselves are random. one possibility is that our psychology determines how we interpret these random signals in our brain.

another is that our brain appears to be behaving "randomly" because our souls have left our bodies (like getting 'snow' on a TV channel with no signal). dreams have often been likened to supposed "out-of-body experiences".

I don't think we'll know much more about dreams within our lifetime.

:::OshnSoul:::

I do respect your input and view. Thank you. That is your truth. This is mine. We all have our own beliefs, but I, for one, have had too many first-hand experiences with the Soul that I know intuitively of it being true. I've been consciously aware and in tune with my inner self for almost my whole physical life, that it is impossible to deny, even if I wanted to. It's a natural knowing.
"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience."

wilbjammin

Unfortunately, this kind of truth is almost impossible to cogently communicate to other people.

I think it might help if you define things in concrete terms... and to go beyond simply "I know this, so it is true" intuitive reasoning into other kinds of reasoning to explain to us. For instance, define things (like Soul) and give some examples to go along with it. I think I'm lost in your lingo.

Quite frankly, that response leaves me with no leg to stand on. I have no idea what you're telling me and why you believe what you believe. I don't know how to communicate about what you're thinking, because I don't understand where you're coming from.

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:::OshnSoul:::

Oh, I'm not here to proclaim or convince anyone of anything. Just wanted to discuss with those who may know/feel what I am saying as well. I think I was being pretty concrete w/o too much "Soul Talk" in my original post. So, no worries! If you don't understand or beleive what I am saying, that's fine. I have nothing else to clarify. I don't plan on taking this thread into a different direction.

pig

Aww man - for a second this looked like it was going to be a little discussion of objective reality of the "soul." Bet that would have been fun.

On topic, I am not convinced that all dreams are the same, or that all parts of dreaming are the same, any more than all parts of our sleep cycle are the same. I do believe in something that I suppose could be labelled a "soul" - i.e. I don't think that we're all only a collection of macromolecules and proteins. I have had experiences where I've felt strong connections to people in my life during or just after dreams, and they have later mentioned to me that they had a reciprocal feeling at the same time. Make of that what you will - I do believe that such connections are possible, and the fact that I can't objectively, analytically defend it or define it, or more correctly prove it, absolutely does not bother me, personally. On the other hand, I have had dreams that I felt were more personal and were of the type mentioned by crow_daw - where my subconscious was trying to break free, perhaps. And then I've had some that were just crap.

I don't know so much about the all the infinite dimensions / infinite dreams stuff...are you referring to the dream within a dream concept? I would respond more directly to this part, but I'm afraid I don't fully understand it. It might help for me to add that I believe in one, unique reality - all encompassing and beyond objective and subjective representations. Therefore, unless you're getting into some sort of concept of reincarnation or the dream within a dream, I'm afraid I don't quite follow.

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:::OshnSoul:::

I am just simply trying to keep on a dream level here, without going into too much detial about my personal experiences. Not that I wouldn't share, but there's been quite a few dreams that are still quite clear and have resonated in my mind because of a possible strong Soul connection to those people (some may not beleive in Souls, that is fine). But not getting into too much scientific facts or paranormal/spiritual beleifs, have yo ever just wondered that these dreams (whether they are ones you remember well or don't understand...whatever) if the other people in your dreams (whether you know/recognize them or not) experienced that same dream. It's hard to truly know, but seems possible, but in a ratio of about 1 out of 1,000,000 as an example.

pig

OshnSoul,

Yes, I absolutely think it's possible. I don't know if I'd say that they would have the same sensory perception of the dream, but I think it possible that the intellectual/spritual gestalt that I believe the soul is, could share the same space / connect with another during sleep. Frankly, I think it's possible that it could happen while awake or in a meditative chance - but I'll buy that sleep / dream states offer the advantage of the dulling of our outer perceptions.

I wasn't trying to get you to divulge anything specific about your dreams (if that was intended for me) or experiences. I'm just not sure I understand what you mean by infinite dimensions and infinite numbers of dreams. It would seem that this might have some import on your understanding / conceptualization of how something like soul transport / bonding might occur.

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Johnny Rotten

I've experienced something similar to the phenomenon you describe that leads me to believe your dreams may have more substance than dreams are traditionally given credit for.

Years ago, back in high school, I apparently summoned the presence of a friend who was several miles away and asleep. She interacted with "me" in her dream and was later able to describe my state of mind and the event that triggered her summoning (a bad dream) with chilling accuracy. I'm am not given to bad dreams (knock on wood). I apparently summoned her, once I'd woken, while wishing vervently and fearfully for her prescence. Soon thereafter, I had another experience along these same lines, but not relevant enough to go into here.

At any rate--as wilbjammin suggested earlier, it's impossible for a man to know he has a hallway if he's never opened the door to his room.

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wilbjammin

No, I didn't suggest that.

I've referred to the difficulties in communicating coherently in a subject matter like this without establishing a clear sense of what is meant by these abstract concepts. I've referred to how the brain uses memory during dreaming, which is likely to have an effect of the content of dreams. This is all that I've referred to, and I have suggested nothing else.

Anyway....

The idea of the uncanny (or unheimlich) seem to fall in this category. I'm of the opinion that humans are much more connected than they believe to be, and, at times, I surprise nearly everyone I know well with what I intuitively know.

Maybe I have a hint of mystic realism in me, because I'm often not surprised by these stories and at the same time I am not swayed to feel that they are exceptional and/or very spiritual in nature (not that there is anything wrong with perceiving these "events" in this way).

It still comes down to perception.

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Innominate.

Johnny Rotten

For a moment, consider my statement as a colloquial version of your own. For the man in the room, the hallway is as abstract as truth.

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wilbjammin

My own would be: For a man in the apex of a series of many hallways, how is he to understand which hallway others are in when they're talking about "a hallway"?

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Johnny Rotten

To avoid steering off-topic, though, I'll add that I consider myself a skeptical spiritualist. I profess no adherance to a particular religion or religious argument, but I've read too many odd and odder things in my travels to believe in the Rational world.

Edit: Doh

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anti fishstick

it's hard for people to think outside the box even metaphorically.

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roachboy

well---if many of us operate in equivalent cultural spaces, which involves the circulation of similar imagery/discourses--and if freud is right that much dream material is made up of (for example) material that you screen out in order to limit your perceptual field (as any functional subject has to in order to be functional--you cannot process all the visual material that barrages you in the course of moving though a given environment--if you did, then your sense of yourself as a coherent subject would collapse)--and if repression can be understood as the mechanism that does much of that limiting--then it would follow that you might well have dream that would involve similar images/discourses/modes of combination to those had by other people....this possiblility seems evident without going into the question of explanations at either the biological or metaphycial levels.

you certainly would not require jung to explain this kind of recurrance of imagery etc. the account above could be extended easily into one of a sense of history, patterns for deriving generalities from within that history, rules of combination, etc.

if you shift to a biological level to explain dreams, you run into problems that would be equivalent to trying to characterize the functioning of a given software package (what the package would present to you as a user sitting in front of your terminal) by detailing how the hardware operates--they are not unrelated, but it is really difficult to move from an account of the conditions of possiblilty for a platform to the modes that shape working within that platform.

as for the soul, well....i dunno. seems an outmoded terminology to me---if you work in a more or less religious framework, then the term soul can be functional, i guess-but i dont.

btw--my favorite bit about the transmigration of dreams comes from gravitys rainbow--pirate prentice---the guy who has other people's dreams--a cool character......

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:::OshnSoul:::

I hear ya. But I find a link to most, if not all religions, as I have read up on and studied religion for quite a few years now. They all link to one thing, and that I know that there is no "right" way, but alas just "another" way. Rationalism has a tendancy to be limited, but it of course is like a religion in itself. I choose not to put judgement on any view or belief, no matter what it is.

pig

This analogy makes me wonder if you're every read Lila by Robert Pirsig. He makes a very similar analogy in order to discuss the merits of using a reductionistic argument to explain away higher level processes. Incidentally, I agree with your position here.

It seems that this thread is taking a turn towards discussion of relativistic philosophies versus absolute truths. That might be an interesting topic.

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Jay Francis

I enjoy dreaming but don't put too much into them. I feel that dreams are just a way of deprogramming all the stimuli from the day. Actually, it's probably better not to remember your dreams because that defeats the minds purpose in cleaning up the jetsam and flotsam of the day.

omid

very well said.

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